My elderly mother, saw something on TV yesterday about raw foodists with orthorexia. Even though I reassured her that this is not what is happening to me, she's now worried and won't drop the subject. She's especially worried for my 18 year old daughter who switched to raw with me. Nothing I say is going to make a difference because once my mother gets an idea in her head, she totally runs with it. Good grief, she just wouldn't drop the subject!

All I've done is increase my nutrition while decreasing inferior foods. Nothing more, nothing less. I feel better and I look better. I've lost 30 pounds this past year and I have some serious muscle tone from proper exercise. More importantly, my daughter is slowly showing improvements to her health which is why we went raw in the first place.

I have eaten from both tables, therefore, I know what is better for me more than anyone else. I'm the one inside the body feeling the difference and knowing that it is good. Like I told my mother, "What is my other option? Go back to eating donuts for breakfast and a bologna sandwich with Ritz crackers for lunch?"

I know how I need to live to be healthy. That is not a problem. The problem is dealing with an elderly parent. Now THAT is the problem. Good thing I have Caller ID. LOL

(long sigh) Thanks for letting me vent folks. :-)

quote: "What is my other option? Go back to eating donuts for breakfast and a bologna sandwich with Ritz crackers for lunch?"

why is it if you eat like that, it does not raise an eyebrow, or concerns?


what can you do when the majority rules? and you are seen as the odd one out?


you can say you dont care what other people think, i dont care what other people think,

but it is annoying when you are surrounded by people who feel the need to

constantly voice their stupid food opinions on you.

i work at a large company, full time, surrounded by at least 100 other co-workers

who eat a s.a.d. diet, and the majority of them are overweight.

where i work i am known as the weird one with strange eating habits, because

i do not partake of the pizza and donuts that is constantly provided and laying

out on the breakroom tables.

people where i work actually get upset and concerned and gang up on me and

corner me with questions like "what do you actually eat?, what, just raw fruits and vegetables? OMG that cant be healthy!!!".

one lady actually asked if i would consider getting my blood work done because of the way i eat.

but i ask them, do i look unhealthy? and they cant deny it, i dont look unhealthy,

i look good, they even say so. i am thin and healthy looking.

so i ask, "What is my other option? Go back to eating donuts for breakfast and a bologna sandwich with Ritz crackers for lunch?"

seriously, folks.

wow, i think i just vented, ranted!

but yes, i know how you feel

you know, i do think that this is a perfectly valid concern. there have been many people who, especially when first starting out, are so concerned with following the "rules" that they are willing to chalk up serious symptoms like hair loss and loose teeth to detox.
that said, i think that someone who is willing to listen to their own body and find what works for them along the way has nothing to fear.

perhaps your mama would feel better if you gave her a print out of a typical day's nutrients from fitday.com or another online nutrition tracking website. it might be a bit technical for her but it will plainly show what you're getting and how much. you could even print out a ritz cracker and bologna sandwich day for comparison, it's sure to be miles better than that! it may ease her mind some, you never know.

I've never heard of orthorexia before. Is Orthorexia nervosa as described by Wikipedia [en.wikipedia.org] the same thing ?

roxeli Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My elderly mother, saw something on TV yesterday
> about raw foodists with orthorexia.....Good grief,
> she just wouldn't drop the subject!

Mothers tend to be that way. My mother still
nags me about several things. I say let's all do what we
know is right, and stop telling other people, especially
mothers, what we're eating.
BTW, my mother is very healthy, and eats very well, even
though some of it is cooked.....WY

Hi roxeli,

Maybe you can also tell your mom it's kind of like the 5 to 9 servings of fruits and vegies a day recommended even by 'nutrition experts'.

This is partly why I just don't tell folks I'm into raw foods. I'm not 100% yet anyway but whenever someone takes note of my diet I say I'm trying to increase my servings of produce. If I said much more they might get a straight jacket ready just in case because common wisdom knows that a raw foods diet is far more 'dangerous' than a SAD diet - Right!

Crazy girl roxeli don't you know that!?

Kit

It is your PEACE that will convince her - not your defense or arguments. Simply say, "I've heard your concerns. Thank you. I will think about what you've said."

-It is up to the individual not to allow family to cross dignity barriers. This is always done under the guise of concern. The previous statement and a compassionate walking away works wonders. LOL. Otherwise people WILL go there! Heh...heh.

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

oh man david, i sure do wish that was the least bit effective with my family. my mama is like a rabid dog when it comes to an idea stuck in her noggin. no amount of boundary setting or reasonable talk disuades her. None!

You don't HAVE to dissuade her. Action speaks a whole like louder than words. Just state your boundaries (what you want) and walk away. If they follow - then things work. People WILL Get the message after a while....or YOU won't be there! In either case - YOUR problem is solved (you can't control your mother's problems dude!.....I certainly can't and don't!....heh...heh....so just make sure HER issues don't become YOUR mental issues!)

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

I agree 100% with David. Don't try to convince anyone. Actions are where its at. This will either work, or you won't be spending much time with the antagonist. Either way, you'll be free of that negative conflict-oriented energy.

The orthorexia segment from 20/20 is at:

Healthy Food, Unhealthy Obsession, Pt 1
Healthy Food, Unhealthy Obsession, Pt 2

While the interview is biased against raw foods, the orthorexic people are very sick. They use a lot of obsessive control (or self violence) of their diets to the point of creating a lot of anxiety, and their bodies are not able to absorb the nutrition in the healthy foods they eat. The underlying sickness in obsessive compulsive behavior is one of the spirit and the mind.

roxeli

so your mom saw something on tv about raw foods with orthorexia

tell her, so what?

tell her that you saw a documentary on tv about cooked foodists and diabetes, heart attack and obesity

and that you are worried like heck for her
if she doesn't stop her "extreme" ly SAD ways

i just spent 3 days at my moms

on the third morning as i was eating my usual fruit meal

she says "don't you need carbohydrates in your diet?"


for the past 20 years she always asked

where do you get your protein?

i suppose that's progress

Thanks for the links Bryan. That's exactly what she watched on 20/20.

I don't resemble those people with orthorexia at all. Not in my appearance and not in my thinking. I'm not depriving myself of calories, proteins, nutrients, etc. I'm striving to improve my health, and that of my daughter's, by making better food choices. I make everything I eat count. I just choose not to eat empty calories anymore.

I also have a more casual approach to my eating. I'm not very regimented at all. I eat when I'm hungry and I keep it simple. I don't over plan or over think my meals. The only thought that goes into my meals is when I'm at the grocery store purchasing my food for the next 3 days. Other than that, I just eat what sounds good at the moment and what is available. If I crave a smoothie, I make a smoothie. If I want cantaloupe, I slice some cantaloupe.

That interview failed to mention that so many raw foodists have improved their state of health through healthier eating and that only a few raw foodists develop orthorexia. Of those that do develop orthorexia, they probably have obsessive compulsive tendencies. A lot of SAD eaters develop eating disorders too so you can't blame it all on any diet. Those are underlying and untreated mental disorders that are the root cause, not the diet. Talk about biased.

Quote

Posted by: roxeli , Date: September 07, 2008


A lot of SAD eaters develop eating disorders too so you can't blame it all on any diet. Those are underlying and untreated mental disorders that are the root cause, not the diet. Talk about biased.

I agree. I'm sure they had to look past many normal people in order to get to more "interesting" subjects worthy of a TV show.

I only looked at the first part of the program but that was bogus. They used one man's made-up phrase and made it into a disease. How typical of the media to blow things out of proportion.

Just because a couple of people are too extreme doesn't make the rest of us that one. The man who was used in the example has all sorts of piercings and was way underweight. How can that much metal in one's body be good for you?

I think those people never gained balance with their diet/lifestyle. It is one thing to chose well what to eat and another to allow it to consume one's entire thinking to the exclusion of everything else.

I agree with Dave. If one insists on mutual respect and doesn't receive it, it is time to distance oneself.

Therese

from what i saw, the guy ate mostly "processed" raw

to accurately show the grocery shopping experience of a fresh raw foods person
would def require a cart, not a hand basket

fruitgirl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> from what i saw, the guy ate mostly "processed"
> raw
>
> to accurately show the grocery shopping experience
> of a fresh raw foods person
> would def require a cart, not a hand basket

That's true! Those high-water-content foods are super heavy (is that how F1 gets so fit :-)

health is an obsession.

its just food in the end. i know, i know... i'm going to get crap for this but with a background in addiciton counseling you have to realize sometimes it can and does go to far.

think about it... if you were stuck in a situation where you had no control over what was prepared for you...would you freak out? can you handle having someone else prepare your food? can you go a day without "everything little thing" being perfect? you ate a cooked meal, do you feel guilt, shame, etc.? (you should not.)

its more of a mental issue, yet we need to make sure we don't obsess over it. OCD over purity can be very unhealthy...and disguising it as "health" is just as sick.

c

you're not going to get crap from me claire. to you i say "Word" sister. the guilt about (listen to the language) "slipping up", "falling off the wagon", "relapsing" etc is so out of whack. it's just food, it's not the end of the world! i know it can make it hard for some people to stay on track but really, i say slow down then and just do what is comfortable at the time. like david mason says, small and easily achieved goals one at a time and within a year or two or three you're there without the stress and pain of obsessive diet structuring. right? right.

It's pretty crazy that anyone worries much about a raw food diet, while at the same time, the SAD diet is producing unbelievable numbers of obese children.

In the past week, I have read that there is a huge demand for obese young boys to undergo breast reduction surgery [www.naturalnews.com].

And then this morning, I read that many children are experiencing obesity related liver disease and there is a huge demand for liver transplants which is only expected to increase over the next few years Liver article.

And people are worried that we eat too many apples?

I agree that some people worry too much about being too perfect, but overall, this is a pretty great approach to eating.

Sapphire

Quote

Posted by: Sapphire , Date: September 08, 2008


overall, this is a pretty great approach to eating

I am amazed at how beautifully the raw lifestyle works. When I am cruising along day by day eating all fresh raw everything feels just right. I feel good emotionally & physically. My clothes fit right and I am slim and trim without even trying. All fresh raw takes care of my health & wellness in a natural way.

Every time there's a 'fad'......whether it's dungeons & dragons.....or the internet....or the telephone.....there are always going to be people who are self-destructive and negative using that tool. The same mentality that wants to achieve greater consciousness by 'limiting' their ability to commit (what is in their mind) wrong........(like anyone that would throw their laptop across the room to keep from getting spam!)........is the same mentality that will find a way to abuse even the most healthy and productive tool. But since no one knows how to do a show on how to cure destructive personalities......it's easier to do a show on a fad. I don't mind any attempt at consciousness-raising. It's just incumbent upon the one's who are actually walking the path to smile and wave, rather than walk off with fist raised. Heh..heh.

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

You can read some of Johnny Righini's responses to the 20/20 show. For him, he is trying to get people to recognize his sickness, and in fact want external validation that he is sick and eating disordered. Here is his announcement of the 20/20 show, plus his responses to people comments to him.

[goneraw.com]

That being said, the 20/20 segment implies that the entire raw food movement is sick, and that simply is not true. But 20/20, as is the entire mainstream media, is beholden to corporate America, and the medical industry and the food industry are powerful players in corporate America, and the raw food movement is a threat to them and their power base. So it is not surprising that a smear campaign would be set afoot to discredit the voice of raw foodists who are healing themselves of supposedly "incurable" diseases.

The Kate Finn story still has some unspoken elements to it that are somewhat suspicious. She supposedly saw the light of her obsession with raw foods and purity, and wrote in Bratman's website and BeyondVeg that she healed herself of her obsession, started eating cooked and quit following any specific kind of diet.

So she wasn't a rawfoodist when she died. But these websites are saying that raw foodism weakened her so much that it didn't matter that she was eating cooked foods again. Hmmmmmm.... How could anyone know this?

Could it be that she simply did not want to live? Every person who I have met who had orthorexic or anorexic tendencies who got to the point of starvation had a spiritual malady, and when they were at the dangerous low weight, they didn't want to live or they thought they didn't deserve to live. The only way a person can turn this around is to become aware of the unconscious desire to die and to make a conscious decision to live.

>>Every person who I have met who had orthorexic or anorexic tendencies who got to the point of starvation had a spiritual malady, and when they were at the dangerous low weight, they didn't want to live or they thought they didn't deserve to live. The only way a person can turn this around is to become aware of the unconscious desire to die and to make a conscious decision to live.>>

Interesting Bryan, thanks for posting that. I feel there is a lot of truth in that statement. I had eating disorders in the past as teenager,although raw food definitely resolved the eating disorder aspect



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2008 07:26AM by Ariel55.

Here is the link to Righini's blog:
[goneraw.com]

By his own admission, he had pre-existing eating disorders before raw and considers raw a part of his recovery program. That never came out in the 20/20 segment.

I just emailed the link to my mother. She believes everything that the media says because she's just very gullible that way.

Yeah, the processed food industry and pharmaceutical companies are among the biggest TV sponsors.

Bryan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The orthorexia segment from 20/20 is at:
>
> Healthy Food, Unhealthy Obsession, Pt 1
> Healthy Food, Unhealthy Obsession, Pt 2

Thanks Bryan. I had a little trouble with your
links. Here's another link below. This is a
'must watch' for all of us concerned with Healthy Eating.
I thought John Stossel presented a very Fair report. It
was good to see Viktoras Kulvinskas again. I thought he
looked good, but a bit thin. It's time for all of us to
examine where we're 'coming from'.....WY

[abcnews.go.com]

First I think you have to decide if you want to live, Next I think you have to decide what you think the natural diet of the human race is. After that you decide to make the necessary changes or not. Its about choices and the results of those choices.

EZ rider Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ....Next I think you have to decide what you
> think the natural diet of the human race is.
Man's Natural Diet is not feasible, as
we're all 'captives', so to speak. How many of us
can (or would want to) live in the Wild? I say take
your present situation and improve on the Natural Diet....WY