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811 and water retention
Posted by: irena ()
Date: September 14, 2008 10:15AM

I started transitioning raw in February and have been following 100% 811 (pretty religiously) since July. My chronic yeast infection cleared after a week on 811 and overall I feel great, my energy level has increased tremendously. One thing that I have noticed is ridiculous amount of water retention that becomes noticeable in the late afternoons and evening. I do not consume any salt, spices or condiments. The edema is very noticable especially in my legs that seem to increase their diameter about 1/4 of their size and my face becomes very puffy. During the night I urinate 4-5 times although my last meal is usually done by 7 pm and when I wake up in the morning my edema is gone and I am about 3 lbs lighter. I have noticed on days when due to schedule I did not eat as much fruit during the day or when fasting the edema does not occur and also couple of days when my fat intake was greater consequently less fruit/carbs consumed in the day there was no pronounced water retention. I understand that this is most likely detox and the body retaining fluids in order to dilute toxins but due to its extremeness I am wondering if maybe my liver/other organs function is not optimal and if I am overloading my system with toxins. I also have noticed that this water retention seems to coincide with lower energy, lightheartedness, headaches etc. In general my mornings and early afternoons are great and the latter part of the day I seem to suffer these ailments. So my question is if I should be doing anything to remedy this (like decrease fruit) or just treat it as a healing process. Have any of you on 811 experienced this and if so how long did it last. Thank you so much for your input.

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Re: 811 and water retention
Posted by: rawangel ()
Date: September 15, 2008 01:22PM

Maybe you're simply retracing and healing former edema issues? In other words, some people when they begin raw foods experience former injury pain or other health related issues surface again as it's moving out. Sometimes the symptoms get worse before they get better. This is also known as detox. Edema is usually related to an overload of toxins in the body and it generally impacts people's lower extremities, especially the feet. Is that happening with you? What may help is ginger root and celery for relief. But personally I let it run it's course when I experience detox symptoms. Drinking plenty of water ironically flushes toxins. Sometimes it's better not to cover up the symptoms, but to release the core. Best wishes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2008 01:24PM by rawangel.

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Re: 811 and water retention
Posted by: wooway ()
Date: September 15, 2008 02:15PM

American living shrinks intellect and increases apathy... smiling smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2008 02:15PM by wooway.

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Re: 811 and water retention
Posted by: irena ()
Date: September 15, 2008 07:16PM

Rawangel. thank you so much for your response. I am of the same opinion, that this is a detox issue, my only concern is that my symptoms have been steadily increasing instead of decreasing with time since July.

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Re: 811 and water retention
Posted by: sciencegal ()
Date: September 20, 2008 04:17PM

Hi Irena,

It's not normal to have to urinate 4-5x during the middle of the night, detox or no detox. I've gone through a period like that a couple times, and I figured out that the reason was that I had a potassium-sodium imbalance: too much potassium relative to sodium. I was eating a ton of watermelon at the time and not enough greens. I've also had that happen when I've drunk way too much water and diluted my sodium levels too much.

First, try eating more celery and more greens. You may have to eat 1-2 lbs of greens a day (where I'm including celery in that definition) to balance out your ratios. Most, though certainly not all, longer-term rawfoodists find that they have to eat substantial portions of greens. You might also want to try avoiding the fruits with the highest potassium to sodium ratios (e.g., melons, bananas). My experience is after a much longer time on raw, your body will naturally absorb and utilize organic sodium in your diet much better, and you'll have a better balance more easily. But in the short-term, if all else fails, either try adding some sea salt to your salads or veggies, or even try cutting back on the fruit.

After all, you're jumping into 80-10-10 way faster than most people, so you may want to take a step back, since (a) you're likely to need more time to adjust fully, and (b) it normally takes more time for most people to adopt the practice of eating enough greens to achieve balance.

I hope this helps!

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Re: 811 and water retention
Posted by: irena ()
Date: September 20, 2008 05:09PM

sciencegal, thank you so much for your response. My intake of greens is definitely not as optimal as it should be on some days because I am still getting used to the idea of consuming such great volumes of salad. I naturally gravitate towards fruit and sometimes just don't have the appetite for greens. Also, just like you, the symptoms seem to be more noticeable when I eat watermelon especially, which has been my staple this summer. You are right,probably I am jumping into this little bit too fast so maybe I just need to slow down.

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Re: 811 and water retention
Posted by: sciencegal ()
Date: September 20, 2008 06:15PM

If it helps, I get most of my greens in smoothies and green juices, as I find it very challenging for me personally to get a lot in salads. I do about half spring greens (1 tub of 1 lb wholefood spring green mix, blended into 2 fruit smoothies) and the other half tougher greens (1 bunch of kale, chard, etc. juiced)--this balance works well for me (3 out of 4 meals a day with about 1/2 lb. greens). While I am not 80-10-10, I do a lot of things similarly (my main focus is high fruit and super-high greens). In particular, I really like DG's idea of eating greens that taste good. In the beginning, I had this misconception that I needed to eat kale, collards, etc., all the time. Then I found out that while tougher greens like kale and collards have more calcium than a solid baby spring green mix (like the ones they sell at Wholefoods and Trader Joe's), those spring greens have more iron by weight than the tougher greens. So I learned that the spring greens aren't "inferior", they just have a different profile of nutrients, and now I balance it out. If you don't find you like greens as much, try sticking to the tasty and easier to chew/blend ones. I suspect that what I will do in the future with regards to greens will be different from what I do know, but I hope this information will help you smiling smiley You may not need nearly this much greens, so you should definitely figure out what works for you. I think the beauty of it all is that we can keep adjusting and experimenting for our whole lives by trying both small and large changes... smiling smiley

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Re: 811 and water retention
Posted by: sciencegal ()
Date: September 20, 2008 06:19PM

Oh, and I should say, my juices contain about 5-6 large stalks of celery...nothing hits the spot in terms of my salt cravings as celery does smiling smiley

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Re: 811 and water retention
Posted by: irena ()
Date: September 20, 2008 10:52PM

sciencegal, thank you so much for all your advice. Blending greens with fruit smoothies is a good idea for getting more veggies in me. I do need to incorporate celery in my diet, for some reason I have been drawn for months now just to baby spinach,lettuce and spring mixes and haven't eaten other types of veggies in a while. I seem to be able to satiate my salt cravings with cherry tomatoes which for have started to taste real salty to me. Thanks again for your advice. Truly appreciate it.

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Re: 811 and water retention
Posted by: luvyuu ()
Date: September 20, 2008 11:12PM

maybe a sillly question... but what is 811???

interesting comment about our bodies going through old ailments that we hadn't dealt with before going raw... cause now when i have my gas problems it makes my rib hurt... i cracked it awhile back as a kid... atleast this is what i think it is... anyhow... the info on here is great... i know i don't get enough greens... it's hard because they make me very very gassy... but so do nuts... so maybe i'll exchange this...

Love laugh and dream

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Re: 811 and water retention
Posted by: irena ()
Date: September 20, 2008 11:44PM

Hi luvyuu,

811 aka 80/10/10 is a diet propagated by Dr. Doug Graham that is basically a raw vegan diet where most of the calories 80% are derived from carbs (essentially fruit) 10% from protein and 10% from fats. If you do a search on this site you will find lots of info about the specifics of the diet (that is how I heard of it originally) and you can also read Dr. Grahams book 80/10/10 Diet that goes on to explain why this diet is optimal for human health.

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Re: 811 and water retention
Posted by: sciencegal ()
Date: September 20, 2008 11:44PM

sure! glad to be of help, irena smiling smiley

"for some reason I have been drawn for months now just to baby spinach,lettuce and spring mixes and haven't eaten other types of veggies in a while. I seem to be able to satiate my salt cravings with cherry tomatoes which for have started to taste real salty to me."

definitely stick to what you're craving here...don't feel like you need to eat other veggies if you don't like them. however, if you do like them, then mixing it up is great! anyhow, i think the main thing is you just want to focus on getting enough sodium and other good stuff in whatever you're eating, and there are lots of different ways to do that smiling smiley

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Re: 811 and water retention
Posted by: Bryan ()
Date: September 21, 2008 12:31AM

irena,

It may be that your body is wanting to do a major detox at some point. I had this go on, after I started 80/10/10, where I became heavily fatigued, and I took 4 months off from work and slept all the time. There will be these times where your body is going to ask for some down time, and the more you resist it, the more chronic the symptoms become.

When symptoms become acute, this is an excellent time to clear out your schedule, stay at home and rest and either water fast until the symptoms go away, or eat as lightly as possible. And sleep as much as you can.

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Re: 811 and water retention
Posted by: irena ()
Date: September 22, 2008 08:24PM

Bryan, thank you for your suggestions. Unfortunately, I just started a new job so it is not possible for me to take time off. I have decided to slow down my transition by adding some nutritional yeast and raw honey to my salad (as a dressing together with lemon juice) in order to make my salads more palatable. This has helped me tremendously with eating lots of tender greens (1-2 pounds a day) and I have already noticed great improvement in how I feel. I think I was going through a major detox so taking a step back has helped slow down the detox.

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