I was telling a friend about all the disease healing benefits of being on a live food diet...went through a whole conversation, only to have them ask me, "Well then, what do live foodists usually die from?" I said, "Car accidents." But it is an interesting question.

Has anyone come across a study or article dealing with this issue? If so, please post here. Maybe I can still convince my friend.

Thanks,
Seajaee

SAD thinking.

I choose to live now.

My guess would be -- car accidents or natural old age.

laughter

david

I agree that this is SAD thinking etc., but can anyone lead me to some actual information. I googled and didn't come up with anything substantial...

seajaee

i fully agreee with being positive, but...

if one looks at the entire list of reasons that humyns living a modern life leave their bodies, the same factors can all apply to those selecting a raw food lifestyle.

one has to commit to making the full range of optimal and appropriate choices choices for our species to achieve homeostasis; and thereby create an opportunity to thrive, and much later, peacefully take one's final breath and proceed to who knows what next....

i have to constantly remind myself, comrades and clients, WAKE UP, raw food, while being an important choice, is NOT a panacea!

so...as eric idle sings, "always look on the bright side of life, di dum, di dum, di dum, di dum, di dum..."

seajaee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree that this is SAD thinking etc., but can
> anyone lead me to some actual information. I
> googled and didn't come up with anything
> substantial...
>
> seajaee


But why would want to know this so you can start bringing it into your consciousness or worry about it? After all of your joy in being raw, then you're going to create a car accident or some other malady to go out? What difference does it make how raw foodists die, let's focus on how're they're living. Enjoy the moment.

I will go back now and mind my own business. I know you didn't ask me all that...just my thoughts and I just couldn't help myself from asking. Hope you find your info.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2008 04:27PM by rawangel.

Hi Rawangel,

I personally agree with your view. The question certainly caught me off guard, but I agreed to ask it.

In my initial post, I explained that I was telling a friend about the benefits of a live food diet/lifestyle when I was asked the question.

It came from the context of my friend saying, "Well, if it heals so many diseases, clears skin, etc., then live foodists must live long healthy lives...so what do they die from?" (paraphrased by me as it was a long conversation) My response was, "Car accidents." I couldn't think of any 'disease' or condition that would answer my friend's question.

It's an innocent question and I began to wonder if any studies had been done. I apologize if this has upset anyone.

Perhaps we just die of old age,(barring an accident of some sort) it just takes longer with us and is less traumatic. Afterall, we will all die sometime.

-seajaee



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2008 04:51PM by seajaee.

SEAJAEE - I think your question is perfectly legitimate and I am not surprised to see it deflected. I am unsure how the question could be limited to SAD thinking given that I have never met a fellow raw foodist who was not motivated to the path by health issues and longevity and did not pass that information on to others. We all know health is a benchmark for mortality (barring trauma).

While I absolutely think that raw food is one of the biggest contributors to good health, it is not the guaranteed cure for all illness that the majority of raw foodists desperately want to believe it is. There is no magic bullet for illness, especially in an age where we are exposed to so many toxins, including those that are too often in our raw foods.

One example of this mindset in our community is the response that observed illness in a fellow raw foodist, aside from candida, is usually contributed to detox. This comes from the erroneous belief that serious illness cannot exist if one just eats raw food, because it is the unmitigated cure for cancer, heart disease, etc.

I saw a post the other day on a raw food site that featured a woman who had become a raw foodist after being diagnosed with breast cancer and then went into spontaneous remission. She is absolutely sure that raw food cured her. She may be right and she may be wrong. The truth is there are many instances of cancer remission that do not involve raw food. There are people who were told they had cancer and began doing exactly what pleased them most in preparation for death. If they ate pizza or macaroni and cheese every day and had a full recovery would we assume the pizza, pasta, and dairy were responsible? In fact, most people who experience spontaneous remission of cancer eat SAD diets. The type of analysis applied to facts involving SAD consumers are regularly abandoned by raw foodists when evaluating the circumstances of fellow members.

Raw foodists probably die from the very same things that kill everyone else, although I would think it is at a slower rate and would depend on many factors including their environment, genetics, stress, etc. While eating a raw vegan diet, getting plenty of exercise, avoiding toxins and stress are factors that help ward off most modern diseases, they is certainly no money-back guarantee on any single one of them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2008 05:18PM by Meditating.

Thanks Meditating, this is a thoughtful response to the question. I will certainly pass this along to my friend.

I venture to say that if eating live foods automatically added 50 or more years to one's life, I bet thousands of people would become live foodists overnight. I believe that's just how American society would react. We would have 'live food mania' on our hands and everyone would join....for all the wrong reasons. It would put the current 'Western' medical system out of business and homeopathic clinics would become the norm. But only as long as 50+ years being added to one's life was a near 100% guarantee.

Even the best organic produce has trace toxins. It's the world we live in today. Can we all live in some remote area of the world, shut off from 'civilization'? Is there really any livable area on earth that is untouched by man's ignorance of caring for our earthly home?

We will all die one day. I personally just want to live as well as I can for as long as I can and be as happy as I can. Health is our greatest wealth!

-seajaee

Seajaee--

Here are some of my observations. I'm 59, so these questions are important to me too. I'm quite confident of the raw food diet's integrity; so please read all the way to the end or you might get the wrong idea:

As the raw food community comes of age (and its adherents and leaders age) we are finding out what's really going on, what we are really made of, and what has to be fine-tuned-- at least that's why I look at it. I think we'll probably adjust our philosophy a little, but we'll come out just fine.

So far there have been some cancer deaths (Yukta Kulvinskas of colon cancer at 58 and Morris Krock with a cancerous lesion on his leg -- I'm not sure how old he was, maybe in his 60s). T.C. Fry had congenital heart failure and had a cancerous lesion on his lung when he died relatively young. Herbert Shelton died of Parkinson's disease, and I've always heard that it really was Parkinsons and he was in bed and pretty much incapacitated for a couple years before his death, but some people are now saying no, it was just caused by his being kicked in the head by a horse. (So I'm not sure what really happened.) Rene Beresford had prostate cancer. These are the ones I know about. But there are also a number of older leaders in the raw food movement who are pictures of glorious, radiant health. And in the middle, so to speak, there are some aging leaders in the raw food movement who are not suffering from any known diseases, but don't look the picture of health.

One of the most outstanding raw foodist writers and educators was Norman Walker, in my opinion. He lived 99 years and was in excellent health. He promoted juice fasting and raw foods, but he wasn't 100% vegan all the time. Gabriel Cousens -- isn't he nearing 70?-- I think he looks wonderful, but I haven't met and observed him close at hand.

Our raw elders are not that huge a community yet; so almost by necessity our examples have to be very anecdotal. It feels 'sketchy' sometimes, but patterns are emerging.

Meanwhile, look at all the amazing and unequivocal evidence that raw food/or fasting heals just about every imaginable type of disease, and that the detoxification involved in the vegan raw food diet creates a clean and healthy internal environment which makes for unsurpassed vitality, fitness and even physical attractiveness in the short term and even for many decades, and we have to admit that no diet comes close.

I did a Paleo diet (meat & vegies, mostly) for a couple years, after having been raw vegan for several years, and I didn't feel good, and I started to look noticably older and more 'rough'. My heartbeat became erratic and I felt tired all the time. It was quite shocking. I got back on the raw path and restored my health pretty quickly.

So what about the problems noted above? I'm thinking there are some things we still haven't figured out. We don't have the whole picture yet, but we're almost there. In other words, is there still a missing factor? Observe: there are (and were) Taoists who live on a raw food diet (or some near equivalent, maybe with occasional steamed vegies) and fasting, and because they have learned to meditate to cleanse and perfect their minds, and they have perfected their bodies with fresh air, exercise and qigong exercises (yoga works too, I think) that help them to assimilate prana, they often have lived-- and even today I think-- they live to a grand old age (100+ very common), diseaseless and quite young looking, with beautiful, fit bodies. I believe the secret is also calorie restriction, and even learning to mentally not think of food as our only sustenance. When we get past the reproductive age, if we are still eating a lot (even an optimal raw diet) we see deterioration most of the time, and disease can take hold. But not if we 'switch over' to the evolutionary food of life-- prana. Does this mean we're supposed to stop eating? No! But by preparing the body over the years with a pure diet, detoxifying it and teaching it to ask for less and less food, and finally we can, for example, spend some of our time every day eating, and several hours not eating every day during which our bodies begin to assimilate prana and unleash the power within to rejuvenate. I think it's a natural process that's part of the human evolutionary destiny.

This is how I see it at the moment, anyway-- just my 2 cents worth. Not sure this will help or hinder you in convincing your friend, but maybe it will provide some food for thought for your own research. I hope he decides to try it.

Sharrhan:


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I read somewhere, I think in was in one of Tanya Zavasta's books, that raw fooders just one day start rapidly aging and then die of things everyone else dies of . . . or, the other option is to die peacefully in your sleep.

Thanks Sharrah,

Your response provides more food for thought. I agree, you play the hand you get. Raw/Live foods means you play a smarter hand.

People can die from anything they want to....don't forget that most raw fooders were not always raw fooders, most have spent half or most of their lives on cooked foods.

Also most raw fooders still live the raw lifestyle the same way they lived their SAD lifestyle which is another reason why many still die from the same dis-eases.

RB

Sharrhan,

I agree with your post. Something that you mentioned is the calorie restriction diet. I have read a few studies with this diet conducted on several species and the results are uniform and astounding. Limiting calories can lengthen the lifespan by 40% and provide excellent health and continued youth in the process.

I always saw this as nature's reward for not wasting her resources. Although, interestingly enough, one study reports that humans who switch to the diet later in life have a higher instance of death than those who do not change their diets. No fair!

meditating--
Interesting information! Makes sense. And the study showing that humans who switch to calorie restriction later in life have a worse mortality rate seems to me to makes sense too, because the older we get, the more toxic and unhealthy our bodies become and we are less able to assimilate nutrients (unless you've been raw and really taken good care of yourself). So imagine such an individual beginning a very stringent low calorie regimen, restricting their food intake. Their body isn't able to digest and use the few nutrients that are in their food, and they suffer a form of malnutrition, which leads to disease and earlier death.

Something like that, anyway. ;-p

It doesn't depress me talking about this stuff-- though on the surface it might sound macabre-- because knowledge is power, and I think we're onto something really big here that can really unlock the longevity 'door'. The only thing that bugs me is my own inability to put these habits into consistent practice in my own life.

Sharrhan:


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There is positive scientific proof that raw food vegans never die in the usual way...

According to a 2005 research paper written in Thailand by Stinky R. Durians, and our own Juicy B. Mellon, raw foodists never die. It's a fascinating paper really, They won the Nobel Juice Prize for their work. It seems that due to years of consuming only raw fruits and veggies, a mysterious metamorphosis happens on a cellular level. Apparently, it comes on quite suddenly...

The first symptom is a belief that their bodies are getting energy form the sun, in the form of photosynthesis. Next, the skin begins to take on brilliant green glow. Within minutes they feel a desire to lean toward the sun, and ask to be watered. in less than an hour, the skin looks and feels like a hass avocado. Soon, they feel tired, hot, all used up, like the best part of them is gone. Their skin turns brown, they suddenly look aged. And, before you know it...right before your eyes, they...

Well...

they...

They spontaneously compost!

Sharrhan, That was very informative. Thanks.

I think outside of diet, that some people just want to die rather than continue to live while friends leave planet. The Goji story tells of a man that lived like 300 years and to me, it seemed, like he done all that he wanted and didn't want to do any more.

I'm not sure what I would do living without death. I'm sure it would be for good but it's unclear at this time.

Therese

Kwan, I've heard several places over the last year that Youkta Kulvinskas died of colon/bowel cancer, and here you are saying the same. Has this been officially confirmed now, ie what was your source - family statement, or just forums?

Readers might be interested in my article here:

[debbietookrawforlife.blogspot.com]

Seajaee, I understand.




seajaee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Rawangel,
>
> I personally agree with your view. The question
> certainly caught me off guard, but I agreed to ask
> it.
>
> In my initial post, I explained that I was telling
> a friend about the benefits of a live food
> diet/lifestyle when I was asked the question.
>
> It came from the context of my friend saying,
> "Well, if it heals so many diseases, clears skin,
> etc., then live foodists must live long healthy
> lives...so what do they die from?" (paraphrased by
> me as it was a long conversation) My response
> was, "Car accidents." I couldn't think of any
> 'disease' or condition that would answer my
> friend's question.
>
> It's an innocent question and I began to wonder if
> any studies had been done. I apologize if this
> has upset anyone.
>
> Perhaps we just die of old age,(barring an
> accident of some sort) it just takes longer with
> us and is less traumatic. Afterall, we will all
> die sometime.
>
> -seajaee

Hi Debbie-

Wonderful article-- thanks! I just saved it in my files so I'll have your information on hand for future reference.

I learned about Yukta's death from forums; I know the family said it was a 'stress related illness'-- which is pretty vague-- but I later heard from a couple forum sources (one was here on this board, I think) that it was colon cancer. I surmised that it was insider information, and the family was just upset and didn't want to talk about it, which I can understand. If she didn't die of colon cancer though, I'm wondering what kind of intestinal distress could actually cause a person to die.

Sharrhan:


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debbietook--
Thanks for the article! I agree that it is important to be mindful of all the areas of your life, and I love the way you addressed this!

Thanks Rawangel (<<smile and a hug>>

-Seajaee

Great blog post Debbie! I enjoyed reading it and forwarded the link to my friend. Thanks again to all who added some food for thought to this posting. It has enhanced my own beliefs about live food and I am further inspired by the power of life!


Peace, Love, and Blessings,
seajaee

debbietook --- Thats a nice article. Thanks for the inspiration ;-)

there are plenty of raw foodists who have either had their plans backfire on them or they get cancer or disease just like any other human being - raw food is not full proof and it's not like raw foodists are better then "sad" eaters - that's like racism against how someone eats and I had hearing people classified like that, personally

can't we all just get along?

Dvdai, that is a beautiful photo of a Shaggy Mane mushroom. I hope you weren't implying that one would die from eating those. They are edible - cooked, though. Which doesn't mean they would kill you raw, of course. They just wouldn't be very appetizing.

iLIVE--
>there are plenty of raw foodists who have either had their plans backfire on them or they get cancer or disease just like any other human being - raw food is not full proof and it's not like raw foodists are better then "sad" eaters - that's like racism against how someone eats and I had hearing people classified like that, personally

can't we all just get along?<

The thing is, the raw diet is constantly advertised by all the raw food 'pundits' as being the gateway to longevity and a disease-free life. So while I understand what you're saying, I see it as a natural and non-biased form of striving for greater knowledge and understanding. Are the raw food gurus exaggerating the benefits of the raw food diet and lifestyle (after all, these are raw food gurus, not everyday people, who died early and from rather unpleasant things), or has the environment and the food supply gotten so contaminated that we can no longer be certain of living long and well even with a raw diet, or are there other factors that need to be considered?

How does this inquisitive spirit of searching for the truth translate into not getting along with one another? I'm confused. ;-p

Sharrhan:


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i asked why we can't all get along because of the fact that people are labeled as sad food eaters, like a silly childhood separation tactic - not the fact that some raw foodists die of cancer or disease

i feel like the brain is powerful enough for someone to live as long as they see fit - or believe they will live; maybee

could be contamination, or it could just be there is no 'correct' way of eating, just like there's no right and wrong

hey iLIVE--
Oh-- okay, I agree there. I have a husband who eats a so-called 'SAD' diet and I think he eats better than me in many ways and exhibits outstanding health and fitness, so I tend not to use that label, ever, with anybody. Now that I understand what you're referring to I have to agree with you.

Sharrhan:


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