Actually,communitybuilder, the way diet could 'save' you is:

we're subjected to a constant onslaught of toxins every day, from our food and, yes, from our environment.

Our bodies try desperately to eliminate these toxins daily, through various channels.

If we remove toxins (virtually) in our diet, then our bodies have a lot more energy/resources to eliminate the other nasties that are coming in.

In the "Healing Cancer From Within" DVD, and I think this was perhaps taken from the China Study or some other vegan book, in Japan before the addition of the Western diet, the many Japanese smoked cigarettes like chimneys, but there was a very low incidence of lung cancer among smokers. But after the introduction of the Western diet, the incidences of lung cancers among Japanese smokers matched those of the Western smokers.

In some research concerning a liver carcinogen injected into laboratory mice, the scientist though that perhaps a high protein diet would allow mice to combat the liver carcinogen more effectively that a normal mouse diet. They were quite wrong in this hypothesis. In fact, the mice fed a high protein diet all contracted liver cancer, and the mice who were fed a low protein diet had a low incidence of liver cancer, even though all the mice in the research were injected with the same amount of liver carcinogen.

Wow that is fascinating, not the injecting mice part but the results

It is very late to jump in this discussion but I don’t read every day.

Concerning the initial question from my level of knowledge the answer is yes. There is a scientific theory to explain the reasons of illness and death.

Just let us look to nature. To keep alive is the first biological priority. But there are check criterions. The individual must not compromise the survival of the population, group or family; in the broader sense it must be some kind of useful, respectively fulfil his function.

Let me give an example out of the animal kingdom. An old alpha stallion which was displaced by a stronger young stallion got two choices: look for another flock of mares and replace an even older alpha stallion or accept its inability to fulfil the original function. Despite of species-appropriate and ample nutrition this stallion will stay alone with his self-devaluation conflict, show symptoms of leukaemia and die by cachexy within one year. This is only one of nature’s practices of elimination.

On the other hand nature provides a set of biological programs to help individuals solving live threatening problems. But during the healing process the mentioned check criterions will tip the scales between survival and death.

You can transfer these principles to human live but under consideration that the check criterions of nature are masked by ethics, social security and other factors of modern live.

Because all diseases follow biological laws the nutrition cannot be a direct healing factor.But good physical and mental conditions, achieved by nutrition and lifestyle will help you to solve or avoid underlying conflicts, accelerate healing and relieve healing symptoms.

The mentioned biological laws and processes are described and explained in the “German New Medicine®”, which is not an alternative but the scientifically proof hardcore of medicine. The GNM® is protected like a sanctuary since more than twenty years by conventional medicine, pharma lobby and politics in order to save the currant profitable health system.

Unfortunately most of the literature of the GNM® is in German language. Under
[germannewmedicine.ca]
you will find at least access in three languages.

You will find the answer why a raw food guru can die by colon cancer.

Trumper

what a cool website

I have long thought that health or disease are to a large extent (genes excepted) the result of good or bad lifestyle choices.

Bryan: I've checked PubMed & can't find that research study you are referring to. There was a study from researchers at Tufts Uniersity published in a scientific journal in September 2008 where rats were injected with a carcinogen & then fed two diets, some a control diet & the others a high FAT diet. If this is the one you are referring to, I don't see the results are what you are saying, at least from the Abstract. If another study that I can't find, please direct me to it. It should be in PubMed.

I'm surprised to see vivisection results being cited on a vegan forum as evidence to support healthy eating theories.

PS not having a go at anyone with that above post, just a bit disappointed

well sus .. there is a bit of a difference in promoting it as something to do .. or discussing via a science discussion

not that i support this at all whatsoever either


im pretty sure tho most folks here havent dont any animal lab testing lately

As raw vegans I believe that we need, as individuals & as a collective whole, to decide whether or not we are going to reject everything about that "other" society..

You know, the one where 99.99999% of the rest of the planet chooses to eat cooked food..The one where 98.99999% of the planet chooses to eat the meat from animals & insects..The one that conducts scientific experiments that in many cases will involve in some fashion the use of animals..

This is not the 18th or 19th Century..It is the 21st Century..It is no longer possible to live anyplace on this planet without some reminder of modern civilization..There are very few places where one can live & NOT look up into the sky & observe the contrails from a modern jet plane..Trying to completely escape from our modern world is just not possible..

There are many people that see these forums here at The Living & Raw Foods Community as a complete refuge from what they see as the ills of our modern world..They become upset, to one degree or another, when ANY mention of the use of animals being used for food or scientific research is brought into a discussion on one of the forums..

There is an extremely limited body of scientific research into human diseases that does not involve the use of animals other than man..I think that most people would admit, including ALL scientists involved in human medical research, that the ONLY way to know if a theory regarding a particular human disease is proved or disproved, is to actually test that theory on living human beings..

Unfortunately, because of the willingness of one human being to abuse another human being, regardless of the justness of their cause; we humans have enacted laws in order to prevent these kind of abuses..This leaves scientists with little, or no other choice but to use other animals in order to prove or disprove their scientific theories regarding human diseases..

Until a body of scientific work exists that has been compiled by researchers that embrace raw veganism, I see no other choice but to provisionally accept, with a large degree of open-minded skepticism, the research that has been, is currently being, & will continue to be performed by scientists using animals in their research..

To castigate, however mildly, someone like trumper who is trying to add to an intelligent discussion of the reasons that might effect the longevity of practicing raw vegans; is, IMO, being short-sighted..

At some point we raw vegans have to decide whether to ignore any & all scientific research that used animals in its research..If we do choose to ignore such research simply because of ethical reasons having to do with animals, then I believe that we are consigning ourselves to another medical "Dark Ages"..

We have to stop relying solely on anecdotal evidence regarding the many facets of being a raw vegan..As a community we need to inspire and fund doctors and scientists to begin researching the raw vegan diet & how it effects human health..It is only by such research that new paradigms will evolve that might end the scientific use of animals in medical research..

Until that day arrives, I believe that we need to STOP getting pissy every time that someone references a scientific study that used animals in its research..For there is very little scientific research that does not use animals in the course of their studies..And, the sad fact is that many of those animals do perish during those studies..

If we are to have meaningful discussions regarding human health on these forums, then I believe that we need to be willing to discuss scientific research that used animals during the course of that research..

Bruce

trumper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...Let me give an example out of the animal kingdom.
> An old alpha stallion which was displaced by a
> stronger young stallion got two choices: look for
> another flock of mares and replace an even older
> alpha stallion or accept its inability to fulfil
> the original function. Despite of
> species-appropriate and ample nutrition this
> stallion will stay alone with his self-devaluation
> conflict, show symptoms of leukaemia and die by
> cachexy within one year. This is only one of
> nature’s practices of elimination. ...

observations of animals in the wild are really interesting and helpful.. the link was interesting, referencing human case studies

thanks,
loeve

Jgunn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> well sus .. there is a bit of a difference in
> promoting it as something to do .. or discussing
> via a science discussion

It's the using it as evidence to support theories on a vegan board that bugs me. I personally don't see any value in the results of mice/rats/<insert animal here> being killed to prove a theory relevant to the human body. But then, I 'spose I'm being touchy, since this board is more about vegan food, than vegan lifestyle. I don't mean to be ms. grouchy :-)

lol were all human right i dont agree with animal testing either , but i also dont forget that i used to be a cattle farmer ... fortunately i saw the light and left the dark side =D .. i still have alot of cattle karma to correct

ya shoulda seen how ballistic i went over a honey discussion last year

the one thing i like about this board is there is no fluff and gloss and sometimes even tho the dicussions can get pretty heated ..some of these discussions really scrape down to the real issues

sometimes bryan really has his work cut out for him being moderator.. thanks Bryan !! =D