So you don't think that the sugar in bananas causes an addictive effect then?

~I've tasted of the fruit,
it's opened up my eyes...~
-Infected Mushroom

NO

Well, there you have it.
If eating 15 bananas at a sitting isn't a sign of some sort of addiction....
Why not guzzle down some corn syrup?
It will probably get you there faster.

~I've tasted of the fruit,
it's opened up my eyes...~
-Infected Mushroom

I don't understand your logic. I don't ever feel like eating 15 bananas at a sitting but i do enjoy them.

what are you talking about corn syrup for?

debbietook Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Over-eating is when we consume food beyond the
> point of appetite or desire.
>
> If someone eats 15 bananas not because they really
> want to, but because they think they have to to
> meet a 'calorie target'/because they've heard
> others do, etc, that's over-eating.
>
> If someone who has been raw for quite some time
> genuinely desires and enjoys 15 bananas, that's
> not over-eating. That's 'listening to the body'.

I aruged that if a junk-food junkie listens to their body, they might want 15 burgers, desire, crave them. That does not mean it is healthy.

And I suggested corn syrup to a banana-freak because I feel it is quite clear it is the sugar they are after, because there are many many fruits out there with more nutrition in them than bananas.

xxPeisi

~I've tasted of the fruit,
it's opened up my eyes...~
-Infected Mushroom

Quote

The Optimum Diet for Health/Longevity:
• Vegan

Citation needed

I eat only when I'm hungry, and I stop when I'm full; so no matter what my meals consist of, I know I'm not overeating because I start and stop when my body tells me to. I have one mono-meal of the many varieties of local hawaiian bananas every day, and I stop when I'm full; sometimes I have some in my next meal of mixed-fruit/greens (or green smoothie) as well, and my last meal of the day consist of coconut and vegetables/non-sweet fruits/more greens. I'm not overeating, and since I feel great and my body makes no protest, I'm also healthy on this diet.

I think there is nothing more ridiculous than claiming that someone else is "overeating" or "eating too much fat" based on abstract concerns like food types or percentages and not about what that person is feeling themselves.

Wild-Aloe, thanks for your commonsense approach wish others would adhere to this rule

We love fruits, vegetables and nuts and seeds

Pax

Peisinone,

Have you been eating to many nuts or something?

Corn syrup is bananas?

If my common sense is workng, then regardless of what's in this or that food, or what amount of calories we need etc. etc., my thoughts are:

Keep it as natural as possible (organic/no processing) / eat until comfortably full or less / eat when hungry / no food at night / no added liquid during meals, or immediately before/after eating / eat fruit separate from nuts and vegies / vary varieties regularly / not too many varieties at one sitting / incorporate regular fasting (either miss a meal or for the whole day/days).

We get caught up with stuff like: what food is high in this or that. Our physiology is pretty amazing, and apparently, according to the literature, we mostly underestimate it's ability to adapt to different foods and their nutrient content. For instance,if there's a high intake of a certain nutrient due to our diet, then our system will only absorb as much as it needs. If there's a low intake, then our system will increase the absorbion rate to aquire the amount needed.

So, a varied diet would suit all our needs in my opinion, whatever type of 'arian' we are.

cheers geo

---to learn to recognize true hunger and thirst of the body is a lesson to learn, - undergoing of few fasts will teach you the lesson of true hunger/thirst eventually...

---"apetite", "desire", "craving", etc - can all be "false" signals or false interpretation of body signs, based upon not genuine true hunger/thirst but caused by some other reason...- boredom, false-concept/belief, compulsive/automatic behavior, enterntainment need, etc etc...

---IME, one learns the art of eating/drinking when one learns to recognize true hunger/thirst.

---most people, including myself, overeat constantly..., overeating is bad, ...however overeating on fresh raw sun-ripe organic high-water fruit is much less bad than overeating on a processed food.

---fruits do not contain addictive appetite enchansing or other harmful substances, which processed (specially via heating preparation) foods contain, so it means it is more difficult to overeat and harm the body by eating fruits..., as well fruits are more easier by body to handle and eliminate compared to processed and unnatural foods.

---IME, living on mainly fruits, the maintaining of body's higher health- and sensitivity levels are easier, as it is easier to practice living without foods, or fasting, which requires a certain level of purification achieved, as painful detox-, recovery- and healing symptoms subside, and it becomes more easier to switch between the modes of feasting and fasting..., - to me this is a solid proof enough that a fruitaian (fruit mainly) diet is the best, or least bad, eating way to go...

---OBS! blending fruits with plants/vegetables is not proper, IME, as it confuses and fools your body, making you easier to overeat on ingrediens in the so called "green smoothy"...

---when you "mono" eat sequentially one different food item at a time, you will be more receptive to read and interpret the body, if it is hungry or satiated or against ingesting of more of the food you eat at one sitting..., mixing and blending fruits with veggies is not just an improper combination of foods, it makes it very difficult for your body to signal right..., or for you to read right body's signals..., IME

---so, if you think you seemingly crave for some plant/vegetable, try to eat it alone, and see what happens and how you feel...

No, Peisonoie, that is listening to your mind. 'Listen to your body' applies when someone has been raw for some time, not to someone with a perverted palate. Once we have been raw for some time, we can listen to the true calls of our body.

Paul Nison Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...
> ...
> INTERNATIONAL LIVING FOOD SUMMIT
> Vibrant Health Through Plant-Based Nutrition
>
> This historic summit was held at the Hippocrates
> Health Institute in West Palm Beach Florida on
> January 14, 2006. The summit convened to unify the
> leadership in the Living Food Movement,
> establishing scientifically based common standards
> for optimum health.
>
> Leaders from eight countries (with a combined
> total of 411 years following this lifestyle)
> agreed on the following standards:
> (Compiled and Organized by Jameth Sheridan, N.D.)
>
> The Optimum Diet for Health/Longevity:
> • Vegan (no animal products of any kind, cooked or
> raw)
> • Organic
> • Whole Foods
> • High in nutrition such as vitamins, antioxidants
> and phytonutrients
> • Highly mineralized
> • Contains a significant quantity of
> chlorophyll-rich green foods
> • Contains adequate complete protein from plant
> sources
> • Contains a large proportion of high-water
> content foods
> • Provides excellent hydration
> • Includes raw vegetable juices
> • Contains all essential fatty acids, including
> Omega 3 fatty acids from
> naturally occurring plant sources
> • Is at least 80% raw (the remaining to be Vegan,
> whole food, and organic)
> • Has moderate, yet adequate caloric intake
> • Contains only low to moderate sugar and
> exclusively from whole food sources (fruitarianism
> is strongly discouraged)
> • Is nutritionally optimal for both detoxification
> and rebuilding
>
> We also agree that:
> • Supplementation with Vitamin B-12 is advised.
> • The addition of enzyme active superfoods and
> whole food supplements is also advised.
> • This way of eating can be further optimized by
> tailoring it based on individual needs (within the
> principles stated).
> • Benefits derived by following these principles
> are proportional to how well they are followed.
> • We will remain open-minded, and this information
> will be updated and expanded upon, if necessary,
> as new research becomes available.
> • Diet is a critical piece of a healthy lifestyle,
> yet not the entire picture. A full spectrum,
> health supportive lifestyle is encouraged. This
> includes physical exercise, exposure to sunshine,
> as well as psychological health. Avoiding
> environmental toxins and toxic products is
> essential. Paramount is pure water (for
> consumption and bathing), the use of natural fiber
> clothing, and non-toxic personal care products.
> Also consider healthy options in home
> furnishings/building materials and related items.
>
> All leaders agree that the main objective of
> eating in the above mentioned fashion is to
> promote health, and equally to prevent and
> minimize disease.
>
> The following leaders support these principles:
> (listed in alphabetical order)
> Solveig Almqvist – Secretary of the Enzyme Swedish
> Living Foods association - Sweden
> Tommy Axelsson – Secretary of the Enzyme Swedish
> Living Foods association - Sweden
> Fred Bisci, PhD – USA
> Tamera Campbell – Vision - USA
> Rajaa Chbani – Pharmacie L’Unite - Morocco
> Gabriel Cousens, MD, MD(H) – Diplomat American
> Board of Holistic Medicine - USA
> Brenda Cobb – Living Foods Institute - USA
> Anna Maria Clement, CN, NMD, PhD – Hippocrates
> Health Institute - USA
> Brian Clement, CN, NMD, PhD – Hippocrates Health
> Institute - USA
> Carole Dougoud – Institute Haute Vitalite -
> Switzerland
> Kare Engstrom – Dietician - Sweden
> Viktoras Kulvinskas – “Grandfather” of the Living
> Foods Movement - USA
> Marie Christine Lhermitte – Chemin du mas Magnuel
> - France
> George Malkmus – Hallelujah Acres - USA
> Rhonda Malkmus – Hallelujah Acres - USA
> Paul Nison – The Raw Life - USA
> Claudine Richard – Naturopath - France
> Michael Saiber – Vision - USA
> Jameth Sheridan, ND – HealthForce Nutritionals -
> USA
> Diana Store – Raw Superfoods – UK/The Netherlands
> Jill Swyers – Living Foods For Health –
> UK/Portugal
> Walter J. Urban, PhD – USA - Costa Rica

..regarding the statements within parentheses in the above International Living Food Summit, they could be from an original "signed" document, or added later for clarification by Hippocrates help. It would be nice to know which is the case.

It is difficult for me to believe that all of the above signatories would sign a declaration including the above parenthetical statement "(fruitarianism is strongly discouraged)".

Just last summer we had an experience with the Hippocrates Center where the results of blood tests were presented in a surprising way. Rawfrancois commented the following..

Re: Video re: fruitarian diet from Hippocrates Center WPB FL
Posted by: rawfrancois (IP Logged)
Date: July 10, 2008 01:58PM

Why was Brian Clement's diagnosis so exaggerated? I don't understand his hostility towards a fruitarian diet, especially since there was nothing out of the ordinary or life-threatening in the blood analysis. [www.rawfoodsupport.com]

To all those who think that their palate is less "perverted" because they have been raw for some time,
I have to be extremely sceptical. And even a bit offended at the egocentrism.

Being a raw vegan does not make you so divine.
Raw vegans still get disease.
Raw vegans still get sick.
Raw vegans still get chocolate cravings.
I have both seen it on others, and experienced it myself.

(and I stay away from the "nuts". I am more of a veg. girl. )

I haven't heard any compelling evidence yet as to why eating a truckload of bananas can be good for you. I even tried to feast on the nanas myself, as a raw friend recommended it to me some time ago, and it make me incredibly sick.

And that is just what I base my personal opinion on.
(by the way, I've been raw for many a year... And my "unperverse" palate still craves the "bad" stuff sometimes. I think it is natural and human. Just like me
I guess I am simply not as divine as some of you out there, eh?

xxa slightly disturbed Peisi

~I've tasted of the fruit,
it's opened up my eyes...~
-Infected Mushroom

Don't worry, Peisi, some of us eat raw chocolate and are awesomely healthy.

'Egocentric'?? 'Think I'm divine'?? Wow. That's some character judgement when we've never even met :-)

Peisonoe, I'm sorry that the use of the concept 'perverted palate' has 'offended' you and perhaps it would have been better if I'd accompanied it with some explanation (but, you know, time doesn't always allow!) And it also seems that on a forum there will be always someone 'offended' by someone else's message, however inoccuous. Anyhow, I've seen your post, so I'll try...

After a few months of raw, alcohol started to taste unpleasant to me. That's after 30 years of drinking like a fish.

Now, why might that be? A plausible explanation is that the body, as it becomes cleaner, ie closer to the state it was in when we were children, rejects things (eg via the palate) that are bad for it, as we would have done when we were children, before we were seduced into having more and more (because it's 'grown-up', etc) and 'accepting' it and then coming to like it.

Is my body 'clean' yet? Noooooo! And it never will be, completely. But raw is a step in the right direction.

Another example: my husband's palate is perverted. Because he smokes, drinks, and has become accustomed to seasoned, hot food, he finds the taste of some natural food unattractive, bland.

As a raw vegan, (well, I'm 99% vegan..:-)), I certainly don't think I'm perfect, and don't think I'm 'divine'! VERY FAR FROM IT in fact.

Love, Debbie

One would think that 30 bananas would be harmful to those with candida or insulin resistance.

Now, I'm only speaking for myself here, but I feel better when I balance my greens to fruit ratio. I actually crave my greens and enjoy something non-sweet in between the fruit I eat. I love and crave my green salads which makes me think that my body has a need for greens. I've also have been craving apple/parsley juices.

I'm being my own guru and finding out what works for me.

I think that is the key here -- being our own guru and finding what works for us individually. Personally, I do best when I eat all my fruit for the day (except an afternoon apple) in my breakfast smoothie. I've always been sensitive to sugar and I feel that this amount of fruit (4-5 servings -- I make a big smoothie) is enough for me. I spend the rest of my day eating veggies, sprouts, nuts and seeds.

For Justin1-
It is true, at least as far as I know, that fruits are not addictive.
However, the banana is actually a herb.
Check this out: [www.whitetimberwolfranch.com]

Debbietook- yes, the word "perverted palate" did "offend" me, as I am sure anyone who is told that they have a perverted palate would get upset. It is not a positive word to describe something. Common sense, I'd say. That is why I understood you to be the sort of raw vegan who thinks of themselves as, divine...

I think that bananas in a large dose can be very harmful, which is why I talk about it so much. For example, I have a kidney problem- which is why I became raw in the first place. Too much potassium can eventually put my body into toxic shock. People who are new to raw and have background illnesses should be aware of this, even though they might be craving bananas (or in fact, calories, because they are not taking in enough high calorie foods, and well... Bananas are cheap so an easy solution I guess... But not without consequence.

Gotta run- running late

xxPeisi

~I've tasted of the fruit,
it's opened up my eyes...~
-Infected Mushroom

I find it strange that the people who do eat raw chocolate (whether it be regularly or occasional) feel NO need to criticize those who do not, yet those who do not eat chocolate sometimes feel the need to claim that their diet is better or that they feel better. The fact is, you can't tell whether you feel better than I do; you aren't me, and I'm not you. I don't know if I would feel BETTER w/o chocolate or not; I'm willing to see when *I* want to, because my life is about what I want to do, not what someone else wants me to do.

I know some people here are religious, but you only live once - don't spend too much time critiquing others! Focus on yourself and what makes you happy. If it happens to be different than what makes another person healthy and happy, so be it. Why worry?

Well, in a hurry too, P, but you might like to check out my blog post sometime on 'mono eating' at [debbietookrawforlife.blogspot.com]. This may throw a little more light on why I think eating 30 bananas a day CAN (I think I said 'can' in the post title) be a good idea.

I also think it's possible to have too much potassium. And, coincidentally, I am planning a blog article that will be discussing this very thing (so thank you! No such thing as coincidence is there...?)

BUT - this is why I talk of DESIRE, APPETITE (caps used only to stress).

If you ever get a chance (or have had a chance) to look at 'Instinctive Eating', for example, by Severen Schaeffer, you will see the suggestion that we will experience a 'taste change' when we have enough of whatever a food is giving us, eg the food will change from delicious, to 'so-so', to 'yuk', the more of it we eat, the precise stage at which each occurs dependent on our need for the things in that food.

That would be why I would say that if a person truly enjoys eating each of 30 bananas, then that could be just what they need. Perhaps they're too low on potassium (for example).

With your kidney problem, let's imagine you didn't know about the potassium in bananas. Have you ever craved bananas? Would you enjoy eating 30? Isn't it more the case that you really wouldn't fancy any more way before that? (And then your body might set up a search for sodium-rich foods, eg celery, tomatoes, etc). That COULD be your clever body letting you know what you need. Do you actually know anyone with kidney problems for whom potassium could be a problem that honestly craves huge quantities of bananas? I'm not having a go here, please don't misunderstand me - just raising the question. I can accept that some might think I'm being naive in thinking that, if a body will have problems with excess potassium, it might not set up a craving for potassium-rich foods, but...just putting it out there.

Sure, most people, dare I say, would find after the 2nd, 5th or 10th banana that they don't feel like eating any more. And that's because their needs for bananas have been satiated.

Re 'perverted', I am used to using the phrase so much that I have come to see it as commonplace, ie I often use it to describe the effect that a lifetime of cooked food has on our tastebuds. I read it early on in raw and never felt upset at the implication that I had a 'perverted palate' (and I certainly did!).

So although it may be 'common sense' to some, 'common sense' is a somewhat subjective term, and I hope you can see why it would not be 'common sense' to me, and no offence was intended. However, I am honestly sorry that you found it offensive, and in future will try to bear in mind that not everyone will receive the phrase as intended.

And I'm glad we've had this exchange, as it's got my mind buzzing around for the next article (when I've got the current one finished), so...thank you!

Wow. This thread is a great example of why I rarely post or read anything in this section of the forum. Is all of this negativity and egotism really necessary from bunch of raw foodists, who are supposed to be among the most peaceful, centered and open-minded people on the planet?

Do what works for you. No one can tell you what's right for YOUR body, except you. You're the expert when it comes to what makes you feel and look your best. And you know what foods bring you inner peace and radiance. Sure, other people have their own experience and it is great to listen to what they have to say and see what has worked for them. Maybe their experiences will coincide with yours, or maybe they will differ drastically. But there is no need to put others down, or tell them they are wrong, for eating or living differently. When you are doing what you know is right for you, you have no reason to worry about whether other people are doing the exact same thing as you.

Eating 10+ bananas a day, tons of fruit, and not much fat works for me. I guess it doesn't work for the original poster. And that's fine. Let's stop focusing on the petty stuff, eat the foods that make us feel alive and well, and put our energy towards something that's actually important.

Peisi .. I can see how the word *perverted* can cause someone to be offended but..

honestly it is a term used quite regularly in medical, legal and scientific circles ..meaning something is corrupted , distorted, contaminated or changed from its natural state. So technically debbie has used it in its correct form ..

I remember a science lab teacher going through the motions of an experiment using the word and alot of people thinking it was an odd way to describe a contaminated specimin .. but it is what it is , I dont think debbie meant to offend you

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

meow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow. This thread is a great example of why I
> rarely post or read anything in this section of
> the forum. Is all of this negativity and egotism
> really necessary from bunch of raw foodists, who
> are supposed to be among the most peaceful,
> centered and open-minded people on the planet?
>
> Do what works for you. No one can tell you what's
> right for YOUR body, except you. You're the
> expert when it comes to what makes you feel and
> look your best. And you know what foods bring you
> inner peace and radiance. Sure, other people have
> their own experience and it is great to listen to
> what they have to say and see what has worked for
> them. Maybe their experiences will coincide with
> yours, or maybe they will differ drastically. But
> there is no need to put others down, or tell them
> they are wrong, for eating or living differently.
> When you are doing what you know is right for you,
> you have no reason to worry about whether other
> people are doing the exact same thing as you.
>
> Eating 10+ bananas a day, tons of fruit, and not
> much fat works for me. I guess it doesn't work
> for the original poster. And that's fine. Let's
> stop focusing on the petty stuff, eat the foods
> that make us feel alive and well, and put our
> energy towards something that's actually
> important.


*applause*

---when our body-mind is in the unbalanced state of "toxemia"/"toxicity" manifested via different reaction and various disease symptoms, our body IS clogged up and overloded with toxic waste matter, which makes that our body's all senses, sensitivity and receptiveness are less sharp and more weak, clouded, confused, disturbed and in a delay mode, - or "perveted" as we also may say..., - similarly as a drug-addict has his/her senses "clouded" and not responsive enough to avoid the damage caused by consumption-ingestion of poisonous drugs...

---furthermore, relying on only one of the senses is not enough, we must observe and act upon all of our senses, in order to recognize, interpret and understand our body signals and reactions correctly and in time as soon as possble...

---most people suffer in being under the on-going constant state of "toxemia", including "raw-foodist", as most coming from prior SAD foods eating and eati behavior have not yet at all reached the perfect balanced state of health of body-mind as nature intended, which is achieved only when undergoing a complete healing and removing the underlying cause accumulated as "toxemia", - removed by the complete recovery, purification and reversal of all disease symptoms up to the final re-establishment of the balanced state is achieved..., - until that state is regained, it is always about the degree of unbalanced state and the "half-health" under toxemia, manifested via higher or lower intensity of uneasiness and disease symptoms...

---now, usually the signs and results of adverse effects from eating and overeating of different foods, seem not to appear and show themself instantly and soon enough, but up to a few or many hrs later, or usually the day after the feasting took place (as an "after-effect", until all of the senses are kicked in to signal and to be heard about the actual state and respons of the body and the organs..., which IS a delay in response leading to a delay in taking the needed preventive or corrective action...

---it is why the true hunger and thirst is not recognized and acted upon by most people most of the time..., and why we constantly do overeat..., IME





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2009 08:04PM by justin1.

..yes, talk of perverted taste-buds in the collective sense is generally well taken, but if leveled at me specifically it might be different.

Regarding reactions to the Paul Nison posts, over at "30 Bananas a Day" they were a bit offended (and amused) by having their name's meaning twisted and used as an example of what NOT to do!

[arawconnection.ning.com]

Meow wrote:

Wow. This thread is a great example of why I
> rarely post or read anything in this section of
> the forum. Is all of this negativity and egotism
> really necessary from bunch of raw foodists, who
> are supposed to be among the most peaceful,
> centered and open-minded people on the planet?

Reading back over the messages in this thread, I don't feel this to be a fair assessment of the thread.

Oh, my edits haven't gone through...

Anyhow, thought I'd better say why I say that :-)



the original poster did rather 'light the touch-paper'.

The thread contains all sorts of messages, and, um, how do YOU think people who have taken the time to contribute to this thread will feel on reading your assessment of the thread as being a 'great example' of 'negativity and egotism'? Isn't this a case of the pot calling the kettle black?

I'm sure there will be a few here who, after giving their time, will be thinking, 'oh, did she/he mean me?' And that's a pity.

If you look over the thread with a 'positive' eye you will see lots of good things in it.

For example, the exchange between P and myself. There was a small understanding - the kind that occurs with forum/e-mail communication thousands a time a day on the planet - but, unlike as in some other threads (apologies poor grammar there), we managed to iron this out between us, and in fact I think, if you read the posts, we are probably both the richer for this.

There are lots of other interesting messages in the thread, and I do feel anything that anyone might have construed as 'negative' (and this is a very subjective thing) is by far outweighed by the positive.

Peisinoe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So you don't think that the sugar in bananas
> causes an addictive effect then?
'
We might be designed to be addicted to foods that we are supposed to eat. Ever think about that? The casien in milk is addictive, it has opiods and makes the drinker feel good. So why does milk contain an addictive substance? it's supposed to be addictive so that the babies crave it and drink it over other things - it's the good stuff in the baby's world.

Of course we are also addicted to things that we are not supposed to eat, but the mere fact that something is addictive is not a sign that it is bad.

paul nison is a nice guy but eats cooked food. notice how paul never posts what he eats? or how many calories he eats?

paul sells refined sugars in a bottle. agave, yacon etc. but fresh, whole, ripe, organic sweet fruit is danger? yep! its danger for sales! lol!

i doubt paul has ever had a whole year eating 100% raw vegan. thats not to say he is a baddy, just to highlight he still is yet to learn how to eat properly.

candida is caused from high fat diets. just check out how many crew overcome candida on 811.. visit www.30bananasaday.com

sometimes i will eat more than 60bananas in a day. i burn more calories than ANYONE in the raw movement today, why? cos i eat more calories than anyone in the raw movement today..and if we want to go the distance in our daily life, then we need to eat to fuel ourselves...

or we just end up back on animal products, cooked food, stimulants, refined sugars etc..