As Paul has started several threads, I'm going to start one!

The '30 bananas' thing has become well-known mainly because some very fit, athletic people on 811 sometimes eat 30 bananas (or more) in a day. And, if you look at their physiques, very well they're doing on them too! (But, could I just mention - they do eat other fruits too!)

And '30 bananas' is the 'two fingers up to you' (if I may use the expression) name of the forum formed by those on high-fruit diets who, while they may or may not eat 30 bananas in a day, are fed up with the endless 'dire warnings' about fruit from those (and their followers) whose businesses sell all sorts of substances that, to their minds, have no place in a raw food diet.

No, I've never eaten 30 bananas in a day, because I've had no desire to. But I've had 10-15 often back in the summer, and as I'm a lightweight female, that's probably the equivalent of a big strong man having 30. I feel, once we've been raw, that we can trust our bodies to know which foods we need and following our desire and appetite. In the summer I felt like lots of bananas. For the last few months I've had a passion for sharon fruit (small persimmons) and could easily eat 10-15 of those a day I love them SO much (only the cost that deters me...). Perhaps it's the beta-carotene my body's after.

There are strong arguments for mono-eating. A day of 30 bananas and nothing else would be a TREAT for the digestive system. For those who aren't familiar with the concept of mono-eating, please see my article here.

[debbietookrawforlife.blogspot.com]

Also, a poster suggested that people who ate large quantities of bananas were just going for the sugar. Could I suggest their bodies might also be going for the following?

Vitamin B6, Vitamin C, Potassium, and all eight essential amino-acids.

As some other posters have said, I agree that Paul has lots of good things to say.

No, we shouldn't 'over-eat'. But, for an active person, 30 bananas 'a day', if nothing else is eaten, certainly wouldn't be over-eating, and strict 811-ers often mono-eat.

Also agree that the fewer the eating occasions the better. The old advice from our mothers (grandmothers?) - 'let your food go down' is good.

But it's a pity that the articles can't simply stick to this sort of sensible advice. It's sad to see someone who has become quite well-known in the raw food world basically making fun of those who might choose to eat bananas for a day and imply, as did happen in one post, that even those who eat 15 are 'crazy'. Sure, 'to the world out there' it would seem crazy, just as a 100% raw food diet would seem 'crazy' to the world out there. But we can do better than that, can't we?

Sorry, Paul, like a lot of what you say, but feel you are going about this the wrong way.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2009 07:49AM by debbietook.

Could I also ask that no sentence in my post is taken out of context? ie without preceding qualifying paragraphs etc?

Not that anyone would, of course. :-) :-) :-) :-)

Thanks!

Quote:

Re: Put down the raw chocolate and stop eating 30 bananas a day. Read This.
Posted by: Paul Nison (IP Logged)
Date: February 01, 2009 12:16PM


Yea, I guess i'm crazy because I think eating eating 15 bananas a day is too much. I'm the crazy one right.

My point is no matter what info is out there some people won't listen so they have to find out for themselves the hard way.

To me it really does seem crazy that someone would want to sit and eat 15 bananas and not think that is overeating. They will even try to defend it.


....even Paul Nison seems to confuse eating 15 bananas "a day" and 15 (at a sitting). What did you mean Paul Nison?

Just the thought of stuffing down 30 bananas at once makes me want to vomit.

As I said, there are variables such as body weight, and, most importantly, desire and appetite.

Hmm, tried to edit that but it didn't work.

Anyhow, the 'PS' is: due to reading so many Paul Nison posts, and the threads which followed, and composing my own little pieces, am now stupidly behind with work!

If there are any posts in this thread that need an answer/comment from me specifically, please pretty please can someone private message me to let me know?

As I have to 'not look now' and get on with the Other Life (that life outside raw).

Love, Debbie

debbie,

I am just guessing, based on what I've read of Paul's writings, but isn't it possible that one may get the nutrients one's body is craving better from a wider variety of foods than a boatload of bananas? I am asking seriously. I confess that I'm a banana addict, but I, too, would vomit á la community builder, if faced with a daily ration of 30 bananas, or fifteen, as I'm a young miss . This doesn't necessarily indicate that I'm NOT deficient in B6, potassium, lysine, etc. What I mean is, surely one could eat 5 bananas, and then graze on other things for potassium or folate or whatever. But the body "asks" for bananas. Why? Because that's the optimum delivery form for the nutrients? What this argument presupposes is that the body's cravings on raw are ALWAYS right and even infallible. I am a big supporter of "eat what you feel," but with a caveat: I know my brain craves starchy sugars in the form of a banana rather than a raw potato for reasons which may not be for my long-term benefit. Also, the pro-banana binge people on these threads seem pretty, um, violently defiant. Like my preshool students were on too much sugar. Or am I misreading typed tone? Anyone? I don't think the OPs intended to insult anyone's very existence, but that's what is being inferred. Damn you, Chiquita Organics!

yes, and that is exactly what those banana freaks do, they try and maximize variety over the short and long term.

fresh,

How can one be a banana freak AND maximize variety over the short and long term? It is my understanding that, after many years high raw or 100%[relatively]raw, people move ON to rather than AWAY from eating lots of bananas. You've been doing this for a long time, right? Are you eating more bananas now than at the beginning? Are you eating a greater variety of other foods and in comparable ratios to bananas now than at the beginning? I am not considering athletes in my query, if that's what you are, as their banana needs are necessarily great, electrolytes and all. Oy, just the sight of the word "banana" is beginning to annoy me . . . .

poor bananas .. getting picked on ! *sob*

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Perhaps eating 30 bananas in a day would be good fuel
if you're running in a marathon the next morning. I
associate Fruit with energy, and Greens with building,
even though they both do the other to a point......WY

Tamukha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fresh,
>
> How can one be a banana freak AND maximize variety
> over the short and long term? It is my
> understanding that, after many years high raw or
> 100%raw, people move ON to rather than AWAY from
> eating lots of bananas. You've been doing this
> for a long time, right? Are you eating more
> bananas now than at the beginning? Are you eating
> a greater variety of other foods and in comparable
> ratios to bananas now than at the beginning? I am
> not considering athletes in my query, if that's
> what you are, as their banana needs are
> necessarily great, electrolytes and all. Oy, just
> the sight of the word "banana" is beginning to
> annoy me . . . .

without getting into minutiae, i'm just saying that raw fooders are well aware of the value of variety and people worry too much about individual days. and that bananas form a small or nonexistent part of long timers diets during certain times of year.

We are already eating too much and too many varieties, so eating 30 bananas may be helpful only in that there is no room to eat anything else, which may be good, the body is resting in not eating all the other foods. We will be fine in spite of the many bananas or should we say because of them.

The body needs plenty of carbs so eating a banana mono meal will supply that need.

If your burning a lot of energy like I did this morning and my day just started.

With a nice 10 kilometers run then came home walked to the market back and forth to pick up some natural fuel for my body that was a 3 kilo walk and worked in the garden for a half hour to water and check on the fruit trees and yes bananas.

Now for breakfast no bananas just 2 big papayas but later I may have 30 sapodillas or more.
Harvested a bunch of bananas last week so they are gone I waited till most of them were yellow the birds got a few but they taste better then any green or yellow bananas I buy in the market.

And yes I ate more then 30 more like 60 in one day they were small ones and tasted so good my stomach said yes.
Tomorrow maybe 10 big lucamas and maybe for dinner tree ripen guavas they smell so good.

Cherimoya,

Love Peace and Happiness,

Cherimoya, I was just wondering yesterday what cherimoyas taste like. Now you have me wondering what sapodillas taste like!

There's a large ethnic supermarket near where I live that has decent prices on lots of different kinds of food that Whole Foods marks waaaaaay up. At the ethnic market -- it's an old supermarket turned super ethnic market -- they have mostly Asian and some African immigrants shopping there, and they have super good prices on all the weird produce that I can't afford at Whole Paycheck.

Where to start? I tried durian while in Thailand and it was ok. My housemate hates it though so I'll stay away from that.

Lee_123,

Sapodillas are one of my favorites they used to be a lot cheaper 10 or 15 years back at the Farmers markets in Florida. They grow a lot of them in South florida.

The first time I had them was many years ago in Guatemala and found them to my liking in Florida I have seen them for 3 dollars a pound.
Central America Guatemala and Southern Mexico is where you can see them at a reasonable price.

I am in Thailand now enjoying the fruits of winter.

Cherimoya,

Love Peace and Happiness,

I love mono eating and try to do it often, depending on what I have in the basket or frig. I had about 5 bananas yesterday. They've got to be ripe and organic (prefer fair trade) for me; otherwise, they don't taste good at all. I can see how eating 30 bananas a day can be good for fuel and nutrients. I wouldn't say it's the sugar/sweetness, unless you're referring to the energy/carbs that it has. Energy is a good thing - ask my boyfriend.

During the watermelon season I probably eat 30 watermelons per summer while the price is good.

debbietook Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
As I said, there are variables such as body weight, and, most importantly, desire and
appetite.

---IME, only true hunger and thirst should determinate your eating behavior, otherwise it IS about overeating, no matter what other seemingly good "reasons" you put together to justify that...

---the worst thing to do against your body is to over-exercise in order to justify overeating, mainly caused and driven by addiction to eating and foods...

---to learn to make distinction between "appetite"/"desire"/etc and true hunger, requires some effort and self-observation, and not least a honest questioning of self's beliefs...

---IME, Paul has some good thoughts he raises and questions, specially our unfortunate suicidal tendency to overeat..., just because fresh raw unprocessed foods are less harmful and damaging than unnaturally treated foods, will not make it wise to overeat...

---IME...

I don't think I've ever experienced 'true hunger'.

Have you, Justin?

'Appetite' on the other hand is something different. Essene Gospel of Peace reminds us to eat only when 'appetite' calls us. That is when the idea of eating seems attractive to us. And pleasure (as when we consume a delicious fruit) can be just as legitimate a reason for eating as any other.

'Desire' is something that is safe to follow when we have been raw for a while, ie when we can be reasonably confident that it is our body, rather than the mind, drawing us to food. If we have to desire to eat a large quantity of a fruit, then we shouldn't, regardless of what others suggest, what our mind 'thinks' we need, whatever 'calorie target' we think we have to hit, etc. But if we DO have desire to eat lots of a fruit, we should.

For anyone who's interested in a discussion of the physical sensations that we have been taught to think of as 'hunger', see my article, Jan 23rd, Fresh Network blog, here:

[fresh-network.typepad.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2009 07:01AM by debbietook.

Para 4, line 2: the second 'to' should be 'no'.

Cherimoya, thanks! I hope you are having a wonderful time in Thailand. What a beautiful country!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2009 11:14AM by Lee_123.

justin1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> ---IME, only true hunger and thirst should
> determinate your eating behavior, otherwise it IS
> about overeating, no matter what other seemingly
> good "reasons" you put together to justify
> that...
>
>

justin,

i have experienced true hunger.

do you only eat for true hunger all the time?

if so then tell us how often and how much you eat please.

I guess I have a small appetite, because even on days when I eat only fruit, I don't eat that much. The other day I ate 1 apple and 2 bags of strawberries, and it was enough. I felt light and satisfied.

debbietook Wrote:

> There are strong arguments for mono-eating. A day
> of 30 bananas and nothing else would be a TREAT
> for the digestive system. For those who aren't
> familiar with the concept of mono-eating, please
> see my article here.

'A' day maybe, but not many days or everyday. If you really want to give your digestive system a treat, drink only water for a day, or some juice with no fiber, or a very light amount of water rich fruit (certainly not 30 servings). BTW, that's 3600 calories.

> Also, a poster suggested that people who ate large
> quantities of bananas were just going for the
> sugar. Could I suggest their bodies might also
> be going for the following?
>
> Vitamin B6, Vitamin C, Potassium, and all eight
> essential amino-acids.

Yeah, while missing out on EVERY OTHER nutrient. Too bad your body does not just need the above. That's how you get imbalanced.

>
> No, we shouldn't 'over-eat'. But, for an active
> person, 30 bananas 'a day', if nothing else is
> eaten, certainly wouldn't be over-eating, and
> strict 811-ers often mono-eat.

Maybe not overeating for some people, but certainly malnourished eating. Your body can survive on a limited amount of nutrients for awhile, it is very resilient, but that doesn't mean over the long run it won't cause major deficiencies. Just like we can survive on nothing but potatoes in times of famine, but that also leads to deficiencies and imbalance and weakness and illness etc.

madinah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We are already eating too much and too many
> varieties,

I disagree. Most people eat way too little variety. They keep eating the same foods over and over again and buying the same limited variety of produce and other foods. There are thousands of different types of fruits in the world, and yet people in the western world typically only eat about 10 types of them. Banana's are the #1 fruit that Americans eat, followed by apples and oranges. Certainly not too many varieties of fruits and vegetables eaten at all, even by raw foodists. If anything we need a lot more variety, to try new things.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
"justin, i have experienced true hunger. do you only eat for true hunger all the time? if so then tell us how often and how much you eat please."

---yes, unfortunatelly, i still do overeat most of the time, as i experience it in suffering under the total sum of my body's senses- and responses, specially under the delay period of after-effects in suffering of adverse "toxemia" reactions and symptoms of disease and/or uneasiness...

---the only period when i am following the guidance of body's true thirst and - hunger, is during the complete fast and right after it..., when later my still unresolved automatic compulsive behavior takes gradually over my sane eating habit and make me again overeat...

---i eat fruits and some nuts only, one meal per day, not drinking or eating anything in between the meals, as i do not experience any true thirst/hunger at that time..., - during high day time i learn to practice sustaining on air and sun, while meditating and "exercising" yoga, etc...

---btw, occasionally i "cheat on my self": eating chocolate or some other stuff which triggers very strong after-effects and - reactions (very painful at times)...

---i agree with nic, that we actually need very little of conventional foods to survive and live well..., but we have our addictions promoted and maintained by our addictive world and its addiction causing products, foods, concept, beliefs, thinking etc..., which require some effort, discipline and determination to break free from and not to fall back again in to its net of seduction...

I would love to eat 30 a day but I'm not that active.

Nik, I did say IN a day.

It doesn't matter that we're missing out 'on certain nutrients' IN a day.

It's what we eat over a period, eg a week, weeks, even a year that's important.

And by the way I don't know of anyone who eats 30 bananas EVERY day, continuously. No, not even durianrider. He eats other fruits sometimes (durians for example!).

justin1 Wrote:

> ---yes, unfortunatelly, i still do overeat most of
> the time, as i experience it in suffering under
> the total sum of my body's senses- and responses,
> specially under the delay period of after-effects
> in suffering of adverse "toxemia" reactions and
> symptoms of disease and/or uneasiness...
>

thank you justin....

Just for kicks I plugged in 30 bananas a day in the cron-o-meter. Here's what it spit out:

===========================================
Nutrition Summary for February 9, 2009
Report generated by CRON-o-Meter v0.9.5
===========================================

General
===========================================
Energy | 3150.6 kcal 162%
Protein | 38.6 g 80%
Carbs | 808.5 g 622%
Fiber | 92.0 g 307%
Fat | 11.7 g 18%
Water | 2651.8 g 72%

Vitamins
===========================================
Vitamin A | 2265.6 IU 76%
Folate | 708.0 µg 177%
B1 (Thiamine) | 1.1 mg 91%
B2 (Riboflavin) | 2.6 mg 199%
B3 (Niacin) | 23.5 mg 147%
B5 (Pantothenic Acid)| 11.8 mg 236%
B6 (Pyridoxine) | 13.0 mg 764%
B12 (Cyanocobalamin) | 0.0 µg 0%
Vitamin C | 308.0 mg 342%
Vitamin D | 0.0 IU 0%
Vitamin E | 3.5 mg 24%
Vitamin K | 17.7 µg 15%

Minerals (76%)
===========================================
Calcium | 177.0 mg 22%
Copper | 2.8 mg 307%
Iron | 9.2 mg 115%
Magnesium | 955.8 mg 228%
Manganese | 9.6 mg 416%
Phosphorus | 778.8 mg 111%
Potassium | 12673.2 mg 270%
Selenium | 35.4 µg 64%
Sodium | 35.4 mg 3%
Zinc | 5.3 mg 66%

Lipids (16%)
===========================================
Saturated | 4.0 g 20%
Omega-3 | 1.0 g 32%
Omega-6 | 1.6 g 14%
Cholesterol | 0.0 mg 0%


It's pretty good except for E, K, calcium, selenium, zinc, and O6.
But people on lowfat diets don't need much E.

(We assume you guys are getting your B12 and D elsewhere.)