Is it almost pointless to be on a raw diet, whether temporary or long term, while consuming alcohol? By alcohol, I refer to Japanese Sake or beer, not liquors or mixed cocktails.

Keep in mind, I am *not* inquiring about the safety of alcohol consumption or whether you (the reader) are for or against it. I am more curious about whether the consumption of the alcohol will nullify most of the benefits of the raw diet. ...whether it be by the various ingredients of the alcoholic beverage, or the alcohol itself, etc.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2009 06:19AM by jargon.

no i dont think its pointless being raw wether you drink booze or not. I dont think the booze will nullify *all* the benefits of raw but it probably wont do much for your overall health

you said in a previous post you dont know what to do with yourself all night without drinking booze , maybe you need to find something else better to do then drinking .. just a thought

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Regarding the second part, yes, I have been told that before. :]

However, it is a hobby of mine that I am quite fond of. I suppose I can try to wean myself off of it while eating raw.

Nullify? Nah. SAD+alcohol is still far worse than RAW+alcohol.

How long have you been raw? It's my experience that the longer someone is raw, and taking great care of their themselves in every other respect, the desire for alcohol falls away. Eating SAD, we use alcohol to numb our pains, escape uncomfortable reality, and catch a fleeting buzz. But when 100% raw, every moment is a buzz, we see all aspects of our health improve, and we have no desire to escape.

In addition, the purer one's diet gets, the worse become the ramifications from drinking.. i.e. we become unpleasantly drunk quickly, get nasty hangovers etc. It just stops being fun like it was.

I know you weren't asking about the dangers of alcohol, but let me say I believe alcohol is actually worse on the body than anything else we avoid by being raw vegans: meat, dairy, wheat, cooked food, etc. Alcohol is a poison that kills cells on contact. One of the most damaging drugs there is. Drunks cause countless deaths and violence in this world daily. Ironic that it's not only legal but so widely used, and not only accepted but highly encouraged socially.

All that being said, have I sworn off alcohol for life? No, hah. I think once or twice per year I may still take partake. But I'm in a LOT better place than I was a year ago, and all through my 20s, when I was probably by all counts an alcoholic (like most everyone else I knew).

Social pressures can be extremely difficult. Luckily for me I had the fortunate circumstance of moving cross-country which allowed me to easily transition to straight-edge raw veganism while facing basically no social pressures at all.

I wonder why you posed the question. If the answer were yes it nullifies all raw benefits, would that mean you'd give up on raw? Or would you give up on alcohol?

We are only as strong as our weakest link. Regular alcohol consumption is a very weak link, highly recommended to cease it if one is really interested in optimum health.

jargon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> However, it is a hobby of mine that I am quite
> fond of. I suppose I can try to wean myself off of
> it while eating raw.

A hobby? Do you mean you brew? Ah that could be difficult. I used to have a $1000+ espresso rig that I was in love with, coffee was similar to alcohol for me, once I went raw and started regular exercise, etc, the need for those things just fell away. And they stopped making sense to consume, I knew and felt they were compromising my health. Sure they tasted great, and I was addicted to them. The mind is VERY powerful in hanging onto addictions, it will try and rationalize any way it can to keep the addiction alive.

I'd definitely recommend weaning off the alcohol or just stopping immediately and see how you feel. It is definitely compromising your ultimate health, which you are presumably are already making sacrifices towards with diet. If you lose interest in the brewing hobby, it's ok you can just sell your gear and find a new hobby. I sold my espresso gear and it felt GREAT.

If you're not a brewer, I'm sorry but drinking is not a hobby, LOL. If it is for you I highly recommend finding healthier hobbies, like walking, biking, running, or weights

I am not eating raw at the moment. I tried it for one week last year and noticed some interesting benefits immediately, despite the headaches. The week I did it, it was strictly raw fruits, vegetables, and nuts... the basic varieties even, nothing fancy whatsoever.

On a side note... I am beginning to wonder now, after going through many posts here tonight, are most people who begin eating raw already vegan? I am quite a meat lover. So, was my experience of immediate benefits so extreme because of the drastic change from meat all day every day to nothing but fruits and vegetables for a week? I wonder.

In any case, rawpreston, I was going to start a 1-2 week temporary raw diet tonight, but then I realized I couldn't drop my nightly alcohol "hobby" without going madly insane. But it looks like I might as well try it anyway even if I can't drop the alcohol.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2009 07:29AM by jargon.

rawpreston, I call it a hobby because it is something I enjoy doing every night and it passes the time, while I watch downloaded shows or DVDs. Without it, sometimes it seems all I can do is sit there and bang my head against the table.

i think there are probably very many people on this forum that started out omnivore myself included i i transitioned (since 2002) from the worst possible (in my mind anyways) diet ..all meat, all fat, very little fresh food, mostly processed boxed food, fast food, takeout food, no fruit, few vegetables, alcohol being up to 50% or more of my daily calories ...to raw vegan

im not going to comment on the alcohol any further other then to say that if you cant get through a night without booze without banging your head on the wall then you may have a problem ...or not .. it really is up to you ..i cant speak for you but it might be something you need to look into .. all alcoholics love to drink, justification is the olympics of a boozer (speaking from experience)

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2009 08:00AM by Jgunn.

Congratulations on your success! Did you get the headaches?

absolutely yes. sometimes brutal sometimes just constant days on end .. detoxing can be rough lol the end justifies the means

something that helped me along this journey was to sign up at the university to some anatomy and physiolgy courses ... it gives you a great understanding how the body works ..not saying you need to run out and get a degree just taking a few classes is not very expensive. I also took some classes at a place called somatic explorations where you do dissections of human bodies and see first hand the ravages of poor diet, alcohol and drugs on human specimans.

its scary what we do to ourselves in the interest of amusement

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2009 08:12AM by Jgunn.

I've never much considered trying something like this long-term. But from what I have been reading here tonight, I believe it might be a worthwhile endeavor.



EDIT: I didn't mean to go even further off-topic here. But, I start to wonder. Is there at all a diet of eating raw, with the addition of say... cooked meats? What negative affects does meat have on the body? What would be so wrong with following a strict diet of raw foods with the addition of meat cooked in something like extra virgin olive oil?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2009 08:13AM by jargon.

Cool man.

A little more about me. I was not a vegetarian before coming to raw a year ago, I used to be a hardcore meat eater. Big ol' black angus Quiznos sub was my fave. My dad was a hunter and I grew up eating venison most every night as a kid. I lived in Wisconsin for 32 years, land of beef and dairy, most people there don't know wtf a vegan even is.

I do however think a lot of people coming to raw may already be vegetarian or vegan. Certainly coming from omnivore-land is more challenging, but I'm saying it's definitely doable, and definitely worth it.

I highly recommend trying out raw vegan for longer, giving up dairy, meat and wheat. Those things are terrible for the body. Cheese is highly addictive and mucus-forming, look up quesomorphins. Wheat also has morphine-like properties and is terrible on the digestive tract. (And most of America eats primarily refined flours, much worse even.) The meat and dairy industry in this country is quite frankly an abomination, factory farms are unbelievably terrible, animals are fed corn and soy and other animals versus their natural diet, not to mention all of the hormones, antibiotics, MSG, chemicals, and pesticides that we pump into our body eating that crap. Not to mention how horrible the meat+dairy industry is on the environment. It's FAR worse than carbon emissions from all forms of transportation combined. Our nation's great aquifers are being rapidly drained by a ridiculously obtuse, excessive demand for meat+dairy. Not to mention meat+dairy are the cause of basically every form of disease which plagues not only this country but every other industrialized nation out there. Cities of the world are becoming more industrialized+westernized and they're falling prey to all of the diseases which plague America. We're not the only fatasses in the world. I'm especially concerned about China's rapidly growing meat demand. It's just not sustainable for this planet, and it's just not necessary.

Books: I recommend to read the China Study. It goes into all of the dangers of animal protein and is very convincing. It's not just about the "China study" itself, but also a wealth of other studies surrounding how animal protein is damaging to health. T. Colin Campbell grew up on a dairy farm himself.

For raw, I recommend The 80/10/10 Diet by Doug Graham. There's a lot of ways to do raw and I tried most of them before settling on this one. It simply makes the most sense and confers the most health benefits. By far.

Other authors to check out: John McDougall, Caldwell Esselstyn, John Robbins, Joel Fuhrman, and Dean Ornish.

Documentaries: Check out "Food Matters", "The Beautiful Truth", "Eating", "Simply Raw: Reversing Diabetes in 30 days", "The Future of Food", "Food Inc", "The World According to Monsanto", and "Earthlings" if you really wanna be convinced.

jargon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> EDIT: I didn't mean to go even further off-topic
> here. But, I start to wonder. Is there at all a
> diet of eating raw, with the addition of say...
> cooked meats? What negative affects does meat have
> on the body? What would be so wrong with following
> a strict diet of raw foods with the addition of
> meat cooked in something like extra virgin olive
> oil?

See my response above regarding meat. Meat (protein) (and dairy, and wheat, and soda, and caffeine) is highly acid-forming in the body. The blood must maintain a VERY strict pH of 7.4. If acid-forming foods are consumed, the body must compensate, leaching calcium and phosphorus from the bones in order to buffer the blood pH to the required level. These are then filtered out of the blood and excreted by the kidneys, leading to deficits (osteoporosis) and/or kidney stones. Also, pesticides in meat and dairy are bioaccumulated, meaning they are magnified 10-100x versus eating non-organic plants. The ONLY meat or dairy that should EVER be consumed is organic, grass-fed, and raw. But this board is strictly vegan so it is not to be discussed further really. There is NOTHING present in meat or dairy that cannot be obtained from a balanced diet of whole fresh ripe raw organic plants.

Extra virgin olive oil has a very low smoke point (ie, becomes carcinogenic) and should never be cooked with, really.

Question. Why has the average life expectancy gone up, rather than down, if food these days is getting worse and worse?

I understand that life now is easier than it was. There are more people, a smaller percentage of people go to war, so more people live longer. But I'm sure diet has at least something to do with it.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2009 08:37AM by jargon.

jargon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Question. Why has the average life expectancy gone
> up, rather than down, if food these days is
> getting worse and worse?

Because of modern medicine. We now can keep people alive for far longer than they would have lived naturally. Drugs reduce symptoms, and people's lives can be extended or they can be kept alive on modern machines for longer and longer. Personally I'd much rather live healthy and independent to an old age than be miserable in my later years. FYI, just because a person is symptom-free doesn't mean they're healthy. The consequences of our actions eventually catch up with us, i.e. we become increasingly symptomatic. This can be avoided. Modern medicine's approach is to quash the symptoms with a drug. This doesn't cure anything. Only the body can cure itself, if it has the vitality and is given the proper conditions.

Another factor to life expectancy is infant mortality has gone down continuously, which has raised the average life expectancy, since baby deaths are factored in too.

I believe American life expectancy is actually going down, because of our rampant obesity, diabetes, cancer and heart disease. I've heard it stated many times that this generation is going to be the first to actually live a shorter life than their parents.

Life expectancy went up because doctors got cleverer at keeping really ill people alive. But now I believe that is not true any more. I think I'm right in saying that life expectancy has dropped a little in Britain. Certainly if you look at areas of the uk like Glasgow the life expectancy for a man is really low and that's because it is a very poor and deprived area with alcohol consumption one of the highest in the land. There is also a culture of fried foods, takeaways etc.

Many people are being kept alive with a variety of serious ailments - they have to take a bucket of toxic drugs everyday. I have a friend like that who is so tired she can hardly walk - yes she is alive but what kind of living is that.

Many people here came from a background of meat eating. Why don't you transition to raw more slowly than you did last time. Various ideas are - have an all fruit breakfast, a salad with your cooked lunch and supper. Or cut out dairy but continue with your meat but incorporate more raw fruit and veg everyday.

Just try tweaking your diet adding more raw as you feel comfortable. Try and work out what suits you - it doesn't matter what any of us do - take our ideas and work out what suits you best.

I really understand the desire to drink alcohol in the evenings. Is it possible to go out and do something else so that you are not 'stuck' in the situation where you want to drink. Of course you don't have to give up but you are right in thinking that it doesn't exactly chime with a raw diet.

Wishing you well

p.s. rawpreston your post wasn't there when I wrote mine - seems like we are saying the same things lol



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2009 09:10AM by flipperjan.

Jargon, a tiny percentage of raw fooders eat raw meat, but you won't find anyone advocating that on this forum.

Here are a few reasons why raw meat (or in fact any meat) should not be consumed:

[debbietookrawforlife.blogspot.com]

However, I'm also conscious that I've been posting on what you SHOULDN'T be consuming, so, on a more positive note, could I direct you to my website at:

www.rawforlife.co.uk

On the page 'What is the Raw Food Diet?', you will find all sorts of foods that are wonderful to eat!

As for alcohol, I'll echo what others have said here. If there's a problem, best to get that one sorted out before raw. On the other hand...I was determined to continue drinking wine (technically raw) in my first months of raw, but, amazingly, after a couple of months, it started to taste nasty to me! And that was it. I never drink alcohol now, which is quite amazing for someone who used to like a drink or five!

Very best wishes on your raw food journey.

Love, Debbie

jargon,
From reading all the posts here,perhaps your case is one of education.
Learn as much as you can about what meat,dairy,and alcohol does to the cells of your body.
The destruction.
The removal from your true life energy.
I believe that if a person really knows and can appreciate the damage thats being done,and if they still partake of the vices,then it becomes a spiritual issue.
Its a matter to be taken to your higher power at that point.
Thats what happened to me.
It wasnt until I did that that it finally clicked.
Oh yea,I had that nightly hobby myself.
That "friend".
Turns out that friend was keeping me from everything I was really looking for.

Vinny

On Dr. Graham's video, High Energy Diet, he talks about starting where you are, and just making some changes - it's a transitional thing.

Like, have just fruit for breakfast. Have more fruit for lunch, then maybe a salad.

Dinner, have some fruit, have a large salad, and then, if you want it, have some cooked starch OR cooked meat (he mentions chicken).

This would be a way to start getting the benefits of a MOSTLY raw diet, along with the digestive advantages of proper food combining, without feeling like you have to 'give up' everything all at once. When you start feeling some improvements from doing this (give it a couple of weeks), then start thinking about skipping the meat/cooked starch a couple of times a week. Eat more fruit earlier in the day to counteract the hunger-crazies.

If you start feeling better, healthier, more energy, happier digestion, you might try cutting back on the alcohol, to just a couple of times a week. See what that does for you.

I do recommend just starting where you are, and adding in all the fresh, raw fruit you can manage, early in the day. As you feel better from it, just add in more. You'll find that the stuff that you don't enjoy as much will just sort of drop off the radar by itself.

Live Well, Laugh Often, Love Much
We are all in this together!
Namasté

rawpreston Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jargon Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Question. Why has the average life expectancy
> gone
> > up, rather than down, if food these days is
> > getting worse and worse?
>
> Because of modern medicine. We now can keep
> people alive for far longer than they would have
> lived naturally.

BZZZT!!!! WRONG!!!!

Naturally they would live FAR, FAR longer and better.

This is one of those textbook LIES propagated by modern medicine, this idea that we're outliving our ancestors all thanks to those heart medications and blood pressure tablets and flu shots. WE ARE NOT! We are usually dying far sooner and sometimes in incredible agony and pain.

We are only outliving the people who came after the beginning of agriculture. This is for all sorts of reasons, including bacterias and plagues brought about by agriculture and the shift to settling rather than nomadic travelling.

THERE IS NOT A SINGLE THING, NOT A SINGLE THING THAT MODERN MEDICINE CAN DO FOR A PERSON THAT HASN'T ALREADY BEEN DAMAGED, WHETHER IT BE BY FOOD, INJURY OR SOME KIND OF DISEASE PROPAGATED UNNATURALLY.

That's the real tragedy of medicine. It can't do *ANYTHING* for anyone that they wouldn't have been better off living naturally. At least not until after the damage has been done.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2009 10:27PM by SuperInfinity.

SuperInfinity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> > Because of modern medicine. We now can keep
> > people alive for far longer than they would
> have
> > lived naturally.
>
> BZZZT!!!! WRONG!!!!
>
> Naturally they would live FAR, FAR longer and
> better.
>
> This is one of those textbook LIES propagated by
> modern medicine, this idea that we're outliving
> our ancestors all thanks to those heart
> medications and blood pressure tablets and flu
> shots. WE ARE NOT! We are usually dying far sooner
> and sometimes in incredible agony and pain.
>
> We are only outliving the people who came after
> the beginning of agriculture. This is for all
> sorts of reasons, including bacterias and plagues
> brought about by agriculture and the shift to
> settling rather than nomadic travelling.
>
> THERE IS NOT A SINGLE THING, NOT A SINGLE THING
> THAT MODERN MEDICINE CAN DO FOR A PERSON THAT
> HASN'T ALREADY BEEN DAMAGED, WHETHER IT BE BY
> FOOD, INJURY OR SOME KIND OF DISEASE PROPAGATED
> UNNATURALLY.
>
> That's the real tragedy of medicine. It can't do
> *ANYTHING* for anyone that they wouldn't have been
> better off living naturally. At least not until
> after the damage has been done.

No man, sorry when I said naturally, I didn't mean had they LIVED their life healthfully and naturally, i meant had they DIED naturally without intervention after living a lifelong unnatural modern lifestyle. You can argue for the sake of arguing if you want, but the fact is bypasses, angioplasties, dialysis and respiratory machines, etc do in fact postpone death.

The China Study is probably one of the best books ever written about the links between eating meat and meat products (dairy) and human degenerative disease.

" The mind that thinks about removing what is within it will by the very act be occupied. If one will not think about it, the mind will remove these thoughts by itself and of itself become No-Mind."

by
Takuan Soho


I'm sleepy now ( yawn)

i think i'll take a nap and make a comfy pillow out of "No-Mind"

i think i'll get into my pijamas now

where is my teddy bear?



oh... geeeez... wrong thread

this thread is about avoidance of alcohol?

this is not the "How to become a Raw buddhist instantaneously" thread?

sorry

this quote is TOTALLY unrelated

i'm sure jargon would agree

or maybe he just disappeared off into "No-Mind" land

Confucius says, Listen to this and just chill out while munching on some ginormous spinach leaves, KOMBOOOOOCHAHHHH , and some bluish blue in your face blueberriez:
yeah, make it your newfound hobby

but the computer won't post it so jgunn will help me out,, won't you jgunn?

i went to the youtube thing and then tried to post that jason mraz song " I'm Yours"

and the computer loves me so much that it wouldn't do it

can u help me out?

i think jargon probably heard this song a million times but its still a cool song and like... it takes down this hilarious seriousness thread down a couple of notches



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2009 10:34AM by la_veronique.

here ya go LaV [www.youtube.com]

Im Yours

lyrics, Jason Mraz

Well, you done done me and you bet I felt it
I tried to be chill but your so hot that I melted
I fell right through the cracks, now I'm tryin to get back
before the cool done run out I'll be givin it my best test
and nothin's gonna stop me but divine intervention
I reckon it's again my turn to win some or learn some

But I won't hesitate no more,
no more, it cannot wait
I'm yours

Well open up your mind and see like me
open up your plans and damn you're free
look into your heart and you'll find love love love love
listen to the music at the moment people dance and sing
Were just one big family
And it's our godforsaken right to be loved loved loved loved loved

So, i won't hesitate no more,
no more, it cannot wait i'm sure
there's no need to complicate our time is short
this is our fate
I'm yours

Scooch on over closer, dear
And I will nibble your ear

I've been spendin' way too long checkin' my tongue in the mirror
and bendin' over backwards just to try to see it clearer
But my breath fogged up the glass
and so I drew a new face and I laughed
I guess what I'd be sayin' is there ain't no better reason
to rid yourself of vanities and just go with the seasons
it's what we aim to do
our name is our virtue

But I won't hesitate no more,
no more it cannot wait
I'm yours

well open up your mind and see like me
open up your plans and damn you're free
look into your heart and you'll find love love love love
listen to the music of the moment come and dance with me
ah, la one big family
it's your god forsaken right to be loved, loved, loved, loved

open up your mind and see like me
open up your plans and damn you're free
look into your heart and you'll find love love love love
listen to the music of the moment come and dance with me
ah, la happy family
it's our god forsaken right to be loved loved loved loved

it's our god forsaken right to be loved loved loved loved
listen to the music of the moment come and dance with me
ah, la peaceful melodies
it's you god forsaken right to be loved loved loved loved

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Regarding the life-expectancy sub-topic:

I think that's an interesting controversy. I believe that we are living longer (because of drugs and medical procedures). But, what is the quality of life for the older folks in our society. This will sound HORRIBLE, but I can't help thinking sometimes that some of our elderly would be better off dying sooner. They don't seem happy, they are in great pain, they live in fear and seem to be constantly en route to the next specialist/Dr visit.

Our medical field seems to be a little upside down. They are working backwards with a mass of sick people and trying to deduce what drugs can "make them better". They should be looking at the healthy people and determining what keeps them healthy and prevents disease.

I think the term "garbage in, garbage out" kind of answers most of the questions.

A plant (for example) will grow on the side of the road in gravel that's saturated with road salt, trash, dust and fumes from vehicles. It grows right? It's a universal goal... to live and grow. It does the best it can given the situation. If you had the same kind of plant growing in clean, fertile, moist soil with plenty of clean air and sunshine, which would thrive? You know the answer! They might actually both live the entire growing season. But, it's one thing to be alive for x amount of time, it's completely another to thrive for that same time.

Bill

hey jgunn

THANkssss a million

LOVE that song!

i think that song answers the question to " How to Live Longer"

and what Bill ( thenewguy) needs to do in order to be happier

and just chill out instead of fantasizing how certain elderly people ought to die sooner



peace out

hey no prob LaV yes its a very good song love it !

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

I huge part of why medical insurance costs so much in this country is because of the exponential costs associated with keeping people alive for that last month, or year. But of course most ill/old people are somebody's mom, grandmom etc, and obviously when it's someone's own family member they want/expect modern medicine to pull out all the stops.

Most people float through life symptom-free, not realizing they're destroying their own body and mind, but when their lifestyle choices eventually catch up with them in one way or another, they turn to modern medicine to help fix them up, just like they take their car in for repair. They don't know how to fix it themselves, and they have to trust the mechanic. But the body isn't like a car, things don't just randomly go bad. The body is capable of healing itself from within on the cellular level if just given the proper conditions. If there were a broken pipe inside a car spraying oil all over the engine, the mechanic wouldn't just clean it up and give it back to you, he would want to fix the CAUSE of the problem.

Of course modern medical treatments don't cure, they only postpone death like I said (or some cases accelerate it (*cough*, chemo), but that's another topic). A person must truly want to heal and improve what they're doing to their body to get better. I think for most people when that grimreaper does start to knock on their door, they start to get very serious about improving things, but unfortunately they don't get the proper diet information provided to them, or are so engrained that changing diet cannot really improve health, or completely brainwashed by the meat and dairy industry, or are so addicted to what they're eating, that they never are able to take their health into their own hands and stop feeling sorry for themselves, and they just keep leaning on the doctors and insurance companies. Whose treatments like I said don't heal anything so the patient has to come back again and again, for this ailment or the next. This all is actually in the health industry's best interest, sadly. Sick people mean big bucks for them.

I do think a big part of it is people need to take matters into their own hands. If only it didn't take a major illness or brush with death to club people over the head with the reality that it's time to try something different. A huge part of it like I said is having the information, but even when given the information, repeatedly, throughout their lives, a lot of people just disregard it. How many people in this country develop high cholesterol, are given a statin drug and told to improve their diet, but they ignore that part and keep eating exactly what they were eating or only cut back on things a little bit? Sure their cholesterol is lower on paper, but is that truly what health is? America is told constantly that they need to eat better and exercise more, but they just keep sitting on the couch eating the stuff that drains them, becoming hooked on more and more medications and stimulants. It's a vicious cycle.

Furthermore sad is the fact that we raw fooders try to do what's absolutely best for our bodies, and spread the word and lead by example, and may have cured ourselves of disease X or truly prevented diseases Y and Z later in life, but the layperson just doesn't see the benefit because they don't have disease X, and don't believe diet can actually prevent disease Y and Z, or they don't believe that the "chance" of those disease later in life is worth the "sacrifice" now. They think diseases later in life are just a game of russian roulette and either they get lucky or they don't. Yes genes do play a part, but they only load the gun. Our nutrition and lifestyle pulls the trigger.

/soapbox

la_veronique Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> and just chill out instead of fantasizing how
> certain elderly people ought to die sooner

Lol! Ok, I'll stop... what about the ones who cut me off on the freeway or back into my car in the parking lot? hee hee