Not that I am very surprised or anything. That agave stuff was such a healthy-eating pipe dream...

[www.aliveraw.com]

That stuff looks deadly.

However the juice of the Agave that is taken just before the plant sends up it's massive 20' flowering spike might be very good. In Mexico they sell it fresh and raw. Its full of all the good stuff you find in any sprout juice, simple sugars, enzymes, embryonic factors. After the juice ferments it turns into pulque, a popular Agave beer. But you need to go to the source, the desert areas where Agave grows.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2010 06:35PM by brome.

A couple of comments,

one is that I am no agave fan. I use it in small amounts and my health has not suffered for it. Stevia and regular fruit are excellent alternatives but that said in small amounts agave isn't going to hurt you and compared to HFCS or more importantly honey, which brings me to the second point. A lot of the writing on the aliveraw site smells of Mercola (look at the similar language on the goneraw post I just fought the same issue on [www.goneraw.com], a paleoraw meat eater pushing raw honey on his website with a comparable fructose content and a much higher glycemic index. [products.mercola.com] As I said on the goneraw.com thread.

"Honey has a Glycemic Index of 83, High Fructose Corn Syrup is 85. Agave is 14. [www.elitefitness.com] So in addition to having a high fructose content, honey has a hi glycemic index, much higher than agave, one more similar to high fructose corn syrup due to its higher glucose content. So honey raises both your blood sugar and increases insulin resistence. "

Mercola had to put a 25 gram warning on his high fructose high GI raw honey which pretty much fits with my daily use of agave. As I said, I 'm not a big agave fan. But I think with comparing agave to HFCS or honey if you just focus on fructose content (might as well do that with fruits) and don't look at the whole food, you are missing the boat. Agave, while not ideal, is much better than either honey or HFCS products simply because it's GI is lower. They all have a high fructose content. But their GIs are very different. And the dose makes the poison (the title of the best layperson book on toxicology, [www.amazon.com]

Your criteria for what makes a product acceptable may vary from mine. I have agave and use it sparingly. I would take it over honey or hfcs products in a heart beat. That said, using fewer sweetners or just taking stevia or using whole fruits like dates, raisins or bananas are even better, though some of the same fructose limit carries through to those as well. Best.

Paul



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2010 07:01PM by pborst.

I have found that my body responds to raw agave the way it responds to table sugar--adversely. This is not the case with, um, beejuice.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2010 07:31PM by Tamukha.

As long as I keep it moderate,a couple of tablespoons, I'm fine with agave. For my golden kamut bread, I've removed agave from the recipe. The golden raisins are fine. In fact fresh and dried fruits make the perfect sweenters to dehydrated breads and crackers. Still, it' nice to be able to make a smoothie full of kale and collard leaves and add a little agave and some chia seed and take it. It's been great as an offset for strongly flavored and pungent ingredients like freshly grated garlic and ginger. To each their own.

Paul

The kind from Trader Joe's I have tastes like chemicals and repulses me. Besides, why would I need to sweeten any of my food? It's just an unnecessary thing in my diet. Interesting article although I think the way the author looks at honey, purely for fructose content, is silly.

Paul,

Have you tried putting a bit of non-alcoholic stevia extract into your pungent green smoothie? Natalia Rose, she of another recent thread, recommends this to take the edge off green smoothies that one needs to "acquire a taste for," and without having to add actual sugar[from whatever source].

Funny- I was just watching Natasha on her Raw Radiant Health Youtube channel and she was very down on agave. I didn't know if it was just her feeling or not, but I remember that the first time I tried agave I thought it tasted like Karo syrup, which is corn syrup! Well, it turns out to be in a similar vein. Oh well, it's super expensive so it's no great loss. I liked the neutral taste, though, compared to honey, as well as how nicely it dissolves...What sweeteners do you guys use?

For sweetener, I pulverize dates and add enough water to make a slurry. On rare occasions I use honey, although it is not vegan. Happily, I've noticed that I've been using less and less sweetener lately. I couldn't get agave easily, so I've never tried it. Now I won't! Cheers!


My favorite raw vegan

I do the same Trive i really like the taste of date slurry

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Hmm. I don't mind agave in small amounts. For me personally, it has a healthier taste than maple syrups, cane sugar and honey (boy, it's been a long time!), too much of it does set off a little alarm in my sensitive teeth, but then, many sweet foods do.

Every now and again there will be a shock article like this one, like the ones about cacao and the many about non raw nuts and garlic etc. I think they inadvertantly do more damage than good- it just makes the raw diet seem more inaccessible when foods are branded as toxic and poison, when they're really not all that bad. Agave's versatility is probably key to many people being able to stay raw, especially when starting out.

Shazzie recently wrote an article about how the raw movement is splitting, how people are moving away from raw veganism. Hardly surprising when many forums and websites are spreading the idea that the 'ideal' raw vegan diet is fresh only and everything else is toxic. This makes it difficult to feel comfortable maintaining high raw i.e. feeling that high raw isn't good enough but at the same time, knowing that 100% raw is too big a goal. Now days when I see these articles, I tend to roll my eyes at the misuse of the word 'toxic'.

Date slurry is the best! Yum

Thanks for the info coco.

In answer to banana who, I like some dried fruits.

But when it comes to using an actual sweetener, I have no idea what I would put it on. ??????

I don't eat green smoothies (each to their own, of course). Whenever I have a fruit smoothie (not often), bananas seem to make it plenty sweet.

sweet fruit in a smoothie, soaked dates (the "slurry" heh, or the water), raisins, all are sweet to me. stevia tastes like aspartame to my palate and I'm not comfortable with honey, the source and it being predigested so apparently a big sugar hit to the blood stream. Ok, and I don't like the taste, it does something "itchy" to my tongue and throat. I used to wash my face with it though and that was nice . Agave, meh. I'd rather have maple syrup. Both are just as cooked as far as I can figure.

I've never tried stevia- is it really that sweet? I have a sweet tooth but always hated that disgusting chemically taste of aspartame!

I have given up sugar for many years now. In fact, now that my palate has changed, there are even some fruits (mostly hybridized) that I find "too sweet."
However, I find that whenever I am feeling under the weather, or (rarely) downright ill, I find that I crave raw honey. I mean, by the spoonful.

I really believe that there is something there that my body must need---and I always feel better after having eaten the stuff.

And the raw honey just sits in the cupboard until I need it; the thought of consuming it when I feel fine just turns my stomach.

Strange, eh?

Uh oh, you're gonna get deleted for that you know. Can't talk about honey on a vegan site darlin', no matter how well intentioned. Just a heads up.

(I have manuka in the cupboard for emergencies. There have been studies that show certain kinds are effective (manuka) and others (clover) are not.)

i have seen this new agave in whole foods. it is clear and it claims to be better then brown agave. like the brown agave is baad, and the clear agave is good. does anyone know the theory behind this or what i am even talking about?