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Kombucha
Posted by: Jesaroj ()
Date: August 23, 2006 02:02AM

Anyone here drink Kombucha? Make their own? My husband really likes it and he has had many digestion problems for years (which fermented foods are supposed to help, right?) - and I'm very curious about us making it for ourselves as it would be much cheaper than buying it for $4 per bottle. Where's the best place online to purchase a kombucha culture or "mushroom"? Thanks,

Jessica

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Re: Kombucha
Posted by: rawmark ()
Date: August 23, 2006 03:23AM

Hi Jessica,

Yes, I drink Kombucha tea. The best place on the internet that I've found is [www.happyherbalist.com]. They ship very quickly and are very responsive to any of your questions.

Cheers,

Marcos

Go Vegan for your life, your health, the planet and, most importantly, the animals that we share this wonderful world with!

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Re: Kombucha
Posted by: innervegetable ()
Date: August 23, 2006 07:45AM

Hey ohhhhhhhhhh myyyy sun god!!!! I love that stuff!

You can find G.T.'s Kombucha & Synergy kombucha (& sometimes local stuff depending where you live) at health food stores. But the best way is to make it yourself!!

You'll need to get some the kombucha/mushroom culture, then brew it with whatever teas or fruits you want. It takes months to grow the "mother" but then you'll have an endless supply of kombucha from the same mother!

Directions will come with the culture or I can e-mail them to you.

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Re: Kombucha
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: August 23, 2006 02:23PM

Hello,

I found the Synergy Kombucha at Whole Foods. It's a little pricey, $2.99 but there are some great flavors. I like the gingerade. I also like the fact that it comes in a nice glass bottle that can then be used to transport my green drinks.

Yum,
Meredith

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Re: Kombucha
Posted by: sunshine79 ()
Date: August 23, 2006 02:55PM

I love kombucha tea - fortunately I've found that the longer I've been raw the less taste I have for it (I feel like it really helped with the cleansing). Phew, because that was getting expensive. I was drinking it every day.

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Re: Kombucha
Posted by: Jesaroj ()
Date: August 23, 2006 03:11PM

Thanks for the help- I will be checking out the link from Marcos! Much appreciated!

~Jessica

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Re: Kombucha
Posted by: Bryan ()
Date: August 24, 2006 12:47AM

Making your own kombucha can be dangerous. People use sugar to create the ferment. It is possible to get bacterial strains that will make you sick. Also, the by product of fermentation is alcohol and acetic acid, both of which are toxic to cells in the human body.

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Re: Kombucha
Posted by: rawmark ()
Date: August 24, 2006 12:51AM

Bryan,

As long as one is following instructions then the chance of problems is lessened. The link I provided has thermostats, heat mats, ph level testers and everything necessary to make safe, healthy kombucha tea.

Cheers,

Marcos

Go Vegan for your life, your health, the planet and, most importantly, the animals that we share this wonderful world with!

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Re: Kombucha
Posted by: juve ()
Date: August 24, 2006 02:13AM

bryan is right about bacteria. you gotta keep a sterile environment around your fermentation project.

For my 24th birthday we celebrated with a potluck party and crisp, sparkling, delicious glasses of raspberry kombucha

cheers!

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Re: Kombucha
Posted by: Bryan ()
Date: August 24, 2006 02:55AM

The problem is that bacteria live in the air. How to you prevent airborne bacteria from getting into your culture?

Also, eating a product that is made from refined sugar cannot be healthy. How is this a raw/living food, when the raw material is a dangerous substance like refined sugar?

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Re: Kombucha
Posted by: Bryan ()
Date: August 24, 2006 08:35PM

The local weekly here in Humboldt county in northern California had an article about Kombucha. The article gave some of the negative aspects of the drink:

Quote

But most of these medical claims are merely anecdotal, and very few are backed up by scientific research. Most medical analyses of Kombucha, in fact, have found it to be considerably more dangerous than it is beneficial. Drinking too much Kombucha (more than four ounces a day) has been associated with allergic reactions, jaundice, nausea and head and neck pain. One oft-quoted case in Iowa fingered Kombucha as the probable cause behind the otherwise unexplained death of a middle-aged woman in 1995.

Dr. Connie Basch, a family practitioner and obstetrician at Full Circle Center for Integrative Medicine in Arcata who specializes in herbal, nutritional and holistic medicine, says that Kombucha has been a deep concern of hers for some time, especially the homebrewed kind. She says that contamination from disease-causing bacteria is not only a possibility when brewing Kombucha, it is very difficult to avoid.

"It's always bothered me on an intuitive level that people were culturing thing in their kitchens," she says. When culturing bacteria in the lab Basch says she has had trouble with contamination even under those controlled conditions. "It just seems to me like a very difficult thing to control unless you're a very sophisticated microbiologist, and I just doubt that people who are doing this are," she says with an incredulous chuckle and shake of the head.

Basch has her own horror stories of people she has encountered who have not fared so well in their Kombucha consumption. A colleague of hers, for example, developed hives from an allergic reaction to a batch of homebrew. One of Basch's patients had an especially gruesome reaction to some Kombucha that was most likely contaminated with what Basch diagnosed as Group A Strep.

This woman had been brewing Kombucha, feeding it to her young child and taking it herself'. The child came to Basch with "a horrendous diaper rash" and later developed ulcers in his nose. The woman came in with "a horrible vaginitis" and went on to develop a bad ulcerative skin infection on her fingers and toes. It was all the same bacteria, which struck Basch as odd.

"It's weird - I've never seen as bad [a case] of Strep-vaginitis before. She had basically pus in her vagina, there was no yeast detectable. It looked like bacteria under the microscope, and what grew out was a very strong culture of Strep. And then she was getting pus under her [finger] nails, called a paronychia. So I cultured some of that pus and the same bug grew out. She had a bad ulcer on her toe, and I haven't cultured that, but I think it's the same germ."

Basch says she was unable to confirm if the infection came from the Kombucha because the tea was discarded before she could take a sample. But she says the fact that both mother and child were overrun by the same bug with the same sorts of symptoms is very unusual. "If they had both been eating potato salad at a church picnic or some other likely food, I would have blamed it on that," she says. "But there were no other likely sources in their history than [Kombucha]."

Basch says she has never tried Kombucha "because it's frightening." While some documented evidence does point to the anti-oxidant potential of the drink, she says there are plenty of far safer ways to get the same benefits, such as from blueberries, kale and other darkly and brightly colored vegetables and fruits. So why do people continue to drink Kombucha?

"I don't know," Basch says. "Marketing? Lore? I think people are just trying to do something that's healthy for themselves."

The next week, a reader wrote this letter to the Editor:

Quote

Editor:
I have to say that the recent "Story of a living tea" made me literally laugh out loud! Quotes like "It's a harmonizing tonic more that any thing else" and "it gives you an interesting energy, I can't put my finger on it" made me really laugh. Let me explain why. These people are simply getting a beer buzz. They are unknowingly brewing a tea flavored Lambic ale.

Lambic ale is made by fermenting sugar(maltose) with naturally occurring yeast and bacteria and flavoring it with hop flowers and fruit. Kombucha is made by fermenting sugar (sucrose) with naturally occurring yeast and bacteria and flavoring it with tea leaves and fruit.

I found a recipe for Kombucha on the net. It called for 320 grams of sugar to be added to one gallon of water. I mixed up a batch and tested its specific gravity. It was 1.280. After fermentation, that would give this tea (ale) an alcohol content of 3.9 percent by volume.

When Gregg Devaney said "It's almost like a drug. It definitely affects how you're looking at things," I suspect that was more the booze talking than any mythical properties. As far as third eye-opening properties and it preferring human contact, I guess a good beer can give you ideas like that.

I hope Alia Bhimani will be prepared to check IDs when she sells it. She will also need to be sure she has an alcohol distribution license. She could have the alcohol removed, like the other brands of Kombucha that are on the market do, but that would mean exposing her Kombucha to a "sterile, automated, humanless production plant where everything is handled by a machine."

Besides, who wants a "near-beer" Kombucha?

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Re: Kombucha
Posted by: sodoffsocks ()
Date: August 24, 2006 10:52PM

YAY! Another raw vegan alcoholic drink! I'll get a few bottles tonight.

Cheers,
Ian.

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Re: Kombucha
Posted by: mallow ()
Date: August 25, 2006 01:04AM

I tried GT's Synergy Kombucha Tea for the first time this month, and wow. I really liked it.
I bought a case (12 bottles) last week, and drank the whole thing in three days.
I am on an incredibly strict budget, but since I eat so much less when I have the tea (there are like 50 cal a bottle I think) that I figured I could afford it.
Yesterday, I ordered TWO cases, and have drunk about six bottles so far.
Then, I read these articles that kombucha is a dangerous drink, with a lot of alcohol, and that too much can even kill you.
Well, now I guess that I will throw the remaining case and a half away, and I'm out A LOT of money.
I could cry.
Even worse than the money, what have I done to my health by drinking so much kombucha!!!!!?????



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2006 01:05AM by mallow.

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Re: Kombucha
Posted by: rooneyandmuldoon ()
Date: August 25, 2006 02:26AM

Can't you take it back? The store I work in would take it back... I tried the Synergy once at work. I definitely got a buzz off it and decided not to drink anymore, as I have been a strict teetotaler for a number of years.

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Re: Kombucha
Posted by: Jesaroj ()
Date: August 25, 2006 04:12PM

Bryan - thanks for the articles! That definitely makes me disinterested in the drink! I have already decided doing it myself would be too involved. I knew it was slightly alcoholic (bottles we've had say .5%) and it makes sense that if you brew it yourself it could end up with more than that. Besides, my husband is about 10 months sober so I don't want to mess with that! He's only drank 1/3 - 1/2 of a store bought bottle at any one sitting and that's once per day, so I haven't been worried about it. If we made it ourselves, I'm sure he'd end up drinking much more than that. Mallow - you should definitely try taking yours back for a refund if you don't want to drink it anymore.

~Jessica

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Re: Kombucha
Posted by: lisa m ()
Date: August 25, 2006 08:30PM

I wouldn't worry about it. I've been making my own stuff for months now, I love it, but I don't get any kind of alcoholic buzz from it.

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Re: Kombucha
Posted by: alive! ()
Date: August 25, 2006 10:53PM

If I were recovering from alcoholism (which I am) I would stay away from the .5% alcohol - no kidding! Not becuause of the "buzz" so much, but from the trigger effect. Just having that slight alcohol taste, smell, warmth etc. can be a POWERFUL reminder and temptation to go get the "real thing". Just my opinion.


Life Is Good!

alive!

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Re: Kombucha
Posted by: juve ()
Date: August 26, 2006 06:34AM

""anecdotal claims... not backed by scientific studies""



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2006 06:41AM by juve.

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Re: Kombucha
Posted by: Jesaroj ()
Date: August 26, 2006 01:47PM

alive! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If I were recovering from alcoholism (which I am)
> I would stay away from the .5% alcohol - no
> kidding! Not becuause of the "buzz" so much, but
> from the trigger effect. Just having that slight
> alcohol taste, smell, warmth etc. can be a
> POWERFUL reminder and temptation to go get the
> "real thing". Just my opinion.
>
>
> Life Is Good!
>
> alive!


You know, I do agree with that. I actually went on a trip this summer with my sister and we went in this really great store called Erewhon in Los Angeles, and I wanted to bring my husband back some things we don't have here. Kombucha was one of them. (I found when we got back that it WAS sold here!) I didn't read the label and therefore didn't know about the alcohol content until I got back home. If I had saw that on the bottle at the store, I doubt I would've bought it for him. So of coarse when he says he really likes it, it's in the back of my mind that I've given him a "taste of evil"! I was trying to look at it as "near beer" which he drank when he was trying to quit alcohol, but thinking back, near beer never worked and he wasn't successful at quitting when he'd drink it. It took well over 3 years after he admitted the problem and a lots of bad things happening for him to get to the point last October where he actually stopped. Before this stretch of sobriety, the longest he went without it was 3 months tops. Anyway, I think that if I don't buy the stuff for him, he'll drink it much less often. He doesn't have it all the time, anyway. Sorry if I sound over-reactive or controlling! But I'm sure a lot of you understand how I feel about the subject.

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Re: Kombucha
Posted by: rawmark ()
Date: August 26, 2006 07:44PM

Guys and Gals,

Do your own research and make up your own minds. Don't take someone else's word for it. Kombucha is a wonderful drink with a small percentage of alcohol created from the fermentation process. If you do a search on the internet you will get all sorts of numbers for alcohol percentages. 3.9, .5, 2.8 and on. Just pick a number and, if it looks good, drop it into your article after your superior license. Obviously, someone with a M.D, or and N.D. will make us all perk up. Often, they don't even need a title. They just need to write an article and make it sound official. There are plenty of books on how to make kombucha, check the ph level and keep it at the right temperature to avoid bacteria. You just need to do the research.

I'm finding more and more that there are some folks that live more on the natural hygiene side that will contradict or criticize virtually any product that we take as part of our raw foods diets. These folks I don't listen to. They have their own path that they're following and I have mine.

That said, do your own research and reach your own conclusions. If you want to make kombucha then learn all you can and make it. If you want to add coconut oil into your diets then do it or don't. If you want to use nama shoyu in recipes then use it. Don't get hung up on the "natural hygienists" that think nothing is good for you unless it falls from the tree.

Peace,

Marcos

Go Vegan for your life, your health, the planet and, most importantly, the animals that we share this wonderful world with!

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Re: Kombucha
Posted by: Bryan ()
Date: August 26, 2006 11:35PM

Again, how can eating a product that is made from refined sugar, the very stuff that on the cooked diet everyone is trying to keep out of their diet, going to give us excellent health? Alcohol kills cells. Period. Yes, having a glass of wine or beer or kombucha isn't going to kill you, however they are not health drinks. What is funny is that no one questions that wine and beer are not health drinks. But a drink made from fermented sugar water flavored with herbs, mushrooms, and tea is somehow "special".

If people want to drink alcoholic beverages, thats fine with me. I am not their mother, and in any case, I only care about what I put in my body, not what other folk put in theirs. If you want to drink this stuff and it makes you feel good, thats great, I'm glad you found something that works for you. But just because it makes you feel good doesn't make it a healthful thing to drink. And while I think its fine that someone wants to drink a slightly alcoholic drink, to call it a healthful drink on a raw foods boards seems to be defeating the purpose of the raw diet in the first place.

Again, this stuff is made with refined sugar. People here make all kinds of fuss about the natural sugars found in fruit. I wonder what Gabriel Cousens would say about this stuff (and he's is not a hygienist in any way)?

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Re: Kombucha
Posted by: Bryan ()
Date: August 26, 2006 11:47PM

Marcos,

While I can see that you don't agree with the "natural hygienists", even though you haven't a clue what natural hygiene is about, how can you recommend to people to drink kombucha, especially when some of the folk here are sensitive to alcohol, and even a little bit can restart their addiction that they've worked so hard to free themselves of?

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Re: Kombucha
Posted by: summer ()
Date: August 27, 2006 03:47AM

kombucha is not made from sugar, it feeds on it, almost completely metabolizes it, and imparts many beneficial byproducts for the human body

I sent two different kombucha samples to the lab, there was .045% caffeine and between .5 and 1% sugar, no alchohol

if there is alchohol in it, it would be about the same as a bottled juice like apple, cherry, peach, etc...to little to have to even legally put on a label.
if there was alchohol in it, I think the FDA would have noticed.
They do a pretty thorough test of products, I can tell you from personal experience.

after 12 years of personal experience drinking and making kombucha, up to a quart a day for the last 6 years, I can tell you that to NOT try this stuff would be like not trying sauerkraut, raw pickles, rejuvelac, etc...you are just missing out on a fantastic drink/food full of live enzymes and other delights...

question people who write articles if they actually studied the culture personally, and those with no experience on a subject who then offer opinion...and even then, not all good things are good for all people...

a lot of the stuff written here, like the breakout of hives and rashes, may not be interpreted accurately - for instance, hives and rashes can happen from rapid detox, which will happen if you drink to much kombucha...

for me, when I see a traditional drink, handed down for centuries, still cherished in china, korea, india, russia, parts of europe...that carries a lot more weight than writings in our times coming from, in my opinion, competing egos, diets, and "lifestyle technicians" , or from papers, journals, "educated" professions, all from a system that might be trying to dull us rather than brighten us up.

kombucha helped brighten me up!

go for your own experience, and listen to your own body, it will let you know...

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Re: Kombucha
Posted by: innervegetable ()
Date: August 27, 2006 05:41AM

summer,

i agree. instead of getting caught up in rhetoric and theories, better, try kombucha for awile, see for yourself how it makes you feel. ive found it gives me sustained energy, improved digestion, and balances metabolism...

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Re: Kombucha
Posted by: lisa m ()
Date: August 27, 2006 02:52PM

Bryan - you mentioned Cousens - the articles you posted seem to be against culturing 'anything' yourself - I was wondering about that, as Cousens has a section in his book about making seed cheeses/yoghurts etc. This seems to me to be similar to making kombucha - messing about with bacteria etc... so I would guess that he isn't totally against us 'amateur' fermenters (:

As for the sugar aspect, well, I wouldn't know about that. Personally speaking though, I know there's no way I could eat any kind of refined sugar without getting a detox reaction of some sort - however I drink kombucha daily without any kind of problem. I agree with Summer's point that the sugar feeds the culture, not you.

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Re: Kombucha
Posted by: rawmark ()
Date: August 27, 2006 03:33PM

Bryan,

I can answer your question to me with two sentences. First, I don't use refined sugar, I use raw sugar. Second, that choices that work for me are based on sound research that I've done on my own. I don't come here and ask for your advice and/or your health knowledge, or lack thereof because I'm fully capable, as an earthling, of doing my own.

Sorry, I guess that was three but I hope you get my point.

Marcos

Go Vegan for your life, your health, the planet and, most importantly, the animals that we share this wonderful world with!

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Re: Kombucha
Posted by: Bryan ()
Date: August 28, 2006 01:08AM

Marcos,

Raw sugar is refined sugar. Unless you are throwing whole dates or whole bananas in your kombucha, you are putting in a refined product into the mix. Is the sugar you are putting into the kombucha a whole food as found in nature, or has it been refined in some way, that is processed such that it is no longer in its original whole fresh state? My guess is that it has been refined.

Again, your body may be more than capable of drinking a slightly alcoholic drink without repercussions or worry about addictions. I wonder how many sober alcoholics are able to do this without repercussions or the worry of addiction?

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Re: Kombucha
Posted by: innervegetable ()
Date: August 28, 2006 02:32AM

I think we get the point ITS REFINED,

some kijam's dont eat refined foods (bryan) some do (me)

I eat:
coconut oil,
olive oil,
hemp oil,
pumpkin seed butter,
tahini,
almond butter,
hemp butter,
sea salt,
etc etc etc...

IT IS REFINED. SO WHAT? A SMOOTHIE IS REFINED ALSO (some more than others lol! mine are "refined" to perfection!)

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Re: Kombucha
Posted by: lisa m ()
Date: August 29, 2006 01:09AM

what's a kijam?

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Re: Kombucha
Posted by: innervegetable ()
Date: August 29, 2006 01:18AM

lisa m,

kijam (majik) is a word we use for person.

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