[www.youtube.com]

Actually, this is the second part and in the first video she discusses her B-12 issues which led to this decision. I think it is wonderful that she is open enough about her shift when her career is in raw foods. Just curious what other people think...

Well...

I have only watched the video you linked to...I didn't watch the first part, so maybe I am missing a bit of info., but...

I dunno...As much as I love Natasha & have watched many of her vids over the last couple of years...I just can't buy into it...

She states that she was in a "brain fog", or something to that effect where she couldn't concentrate properly. Okay...what about all the meat eaters that I encounter on a daily basis that are also in a brain fog?

I wouldn't think that they are B12 deficient, since they are eating tons of meat. Must be another issue with meat eaters...which is now what she has become...very interesting. (well, fish eater...)

And all the other long - lived vegans/raw foodists? Have they done "permanent damage" to their CNS, as Natasha suggests will happen if you are deficient?

Even the thought of eating any meat/animal products just makes me want to barf...when i smell it cooking, my stomach tosses & turns something awful.

And fish? UGH! I NEVER was big on fish, even when I was a meat eater...which I guess is the preferred source of B12...


Granted, I have not had any tests done since becoming vegan around 12 yr. ago, so who knows, I may be all out of whack now...

All that being said, I will say that I do appreciate her honesty. If it works for her...good...I wish her all the best..

At least she's not closed minded...like I am with my response, lol...

Fish is full of parasites, even when it's cooked.

I take a B12 supplement, D3 too. Whatever, I'm not about to mess around with my health in that regard. I don't think fish or meat are a better answer than those supplements but that's just my opinion.

David Mason was tested by Hippocrates and he was deficient in absolutely nothing, lowish in one or two but nothing troublesome at all. He's a fruitarian too!

Well she is right about long term b12 deficiency can cause irreparable damage to the nervous system.

The brain fog is more attributed to low thyroid function but can also occur in those who are b12 deficient.

The first video is right there when you click on the second. Sorry I didn't link it but it basically says that she is afraid of the "growth factor" in the B12 shots she would take (plus all the other stuff in the shot). She did a video where she listed all the health challenges she has been faced with--I think starting with being born with a hole in her heart! So her body is probably more sensitive than the average raw fooder's body. I just thought it was an interesting development...she has built a career around raw food but still has the intregity to let people know the score

Actually, I seriously applaud her for her honesty instead of trying to hide it, and coco... fresh water fish have allot of parasites, which are killed by heat, salt water fish have parasites which are physically visible, and also killed by heat from cooking... if not, every person in japan would be riddled with parasites and dying at very young ages from it, as fish is a major part of their diet, raw fish, sashimi/sushimi, being particularly popular...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

Wouldn't it be nice if that were true. Brian Clement talked about fish during a lecture I attended and said that looking at even cooked fish under a microscope and you'll see lots of wrigglers.

Ive looked at fish under a microscope, and everything else I could get ahold of as a kid... I did see some in some raw fish, never in cooked, and I haven't checked as an adult, nor have I checked sashimi grade fish... but the fish I did check when I was a kid was trout... but im not gonna argue about this, If I ever get ahold of a microscope again in the future though, I will be happy to record the results, as most now days have connections to hook up to a computer and allow you to record what your looking at real time... id be highly interested in seeing brian clement do this... show the raw fish, then cook the exact same fish at the heat and time normally suggested for a fish of that type and weight, then check it again, in front of a crowd... im sure youd like to see that to.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

She takes a bit too long to say, "I developed a deficiency doing hard core raw veg and now I'm eating a bit of seafood." I felt after a while that she was talking more to herself than to us out here, you know? She doesn't owe anyone that protracted an explanation.

Personally, I'd exhaust all possible dietary and supplement avenues of correction before going back to eating animal flesh, and I cannot imagine going back to eating animal flesh after almost 17 years as a vegetarian. But that's me. I hope she figures things out for herself and stays well. And that she doesn't suffer philosophical crises keeping herself well, either--it's not worth it.

Thanks for posting.

I agree tam, im glad she was at least honest about it with her followers though, if one doesnt count cod liver oil, ive not had any animal products (except a tiny amount around christmas) in a long time, and ive been feeling allot better since, even though its not necessarily a moral thing for me, I would rather not go back to animal products as a normal part of my diet, for any reason... and Im thinking I may not have to, as I haven't been having any issues with my condition except for when I tried to phase out the cod liver oil pills... although ive been able to cut those down to 1 a week with out any noticeable issues...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, mirror in the sky
What is love?
Can the child within my heart rise above?
Can I sail through the changing ocean tides?
Can I handle the seasons of my life?

It sounds like Natasha has an absorption problem, since taking the oral supplements are ineffective. One of the way to heal the absorption issues is to water fast. But this may not work for Natasha given her schedule and commitments. Also, I would look at all the supplements and condiments in the diet that may be antibacterial or antibiotic in nature, as they may be killing off the bacteria in the body that create B12.

We all have to do what we need to do to get healthy. For her, eating animal products made the most sense of all her options. For myself, I think I would try water fasting first to see if I could get the absorption issue handled.

Yes Prana, I think you are right regarding the absorption issues. She has had many health issues over the years; it's amazing. For the average person, it's probably not that serious but I think this is good for one reason: we should always keep an open mind regarding our diet and that of others. I used to be fairly intolerant about people who suggested that they needed meat to function. I still think most of them are just saying that because they can't imagine being vedges, but even so it's not for me to say what someone else should (or can) do. Natasha says she's grown up not eating meat so I don't think this is something that she doing very lightly.

Coco: she mentions steaming the fish (maybe baking it, too?) and if you do it long enough, why shouldn't that kill parasites? It seems to me that many of these problems exist because of undercooking but at some point the pathogens should be destroyed.

many parasites are resistant to freezing and heat, even high heat.

It may be possible she has an absorption issue, but i wouldnt solely rely on that, a few recent vegan/b12 studies have shown many even with no absorption issues dont absorb even sublingual b12 enough, especially not even to rectify a serious b12 deficiency which she could have caused a long time to occur.

and to be honest i think she just didnt want to go down the route of trying any supplementation including b12 injection.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2011 06:07PM by powerlifer.

No PW, she did the injections and they only would work temporarily. She says there is "growth factor" (whatever that is) in them and she was afraid that any potential bad cells would grow, too. She of all people seems like the type who wouldn't use some excuse to eat flesh unless she was very worried about her wellbeing.

banana who Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No PW, she did the injections and they only would
> work temporarily. She says there is "growth
> factor" (whatever that is) in them and she was
> afraid that any potential bad cells would grow,
> too. She of all people seems like the type who
> wouldn't use some excuse to eat flesh unless she
> was very worried about her wellbeing.

Ahh right i never seen that cheers and ive never read anything to suggest it contains growth factors, the injections do contain preservatives and such though, but that doesnt change anything if she had some sort of absorption problem the meat wouldnt work for b12 either. I think reading between the lines she didnt feel 100% raw was right and wanted to balance it out with the meat so she wouldnt have to take supplements/injections for the rest of her life, i get that feeling alot from what shes saying and fair does she was honest enough about coming forward.

The fact she said she was getting better from the meat diet says it all regarding the absoprtion not being a problem.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2011 08:11PM by powerlifer.

I don't know about B12 but for me no matter how much spinach, beets, citrus and/or red meat I ate my iron levels were still very low. The only thing that makes a difference for me is supplementation. I'm still low but low normal so long as I take iron pills (vegan ones work fine).

coco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't know about B12 but for me no matter how
> much spinach, beets, citrus and/or red meat I ate
> my iron levels were still very low. The only thing
> that makes a difference for me is supplementation.
> I'm still low but low normal so long as I take
> iron pills (vegan ones work fine).

iron absorption issues are different from b12, did you ever get around to trying anything to increase your stomach acid coco?

I'm doing nearly every thing you suggested , staggered over time, plus back into smoothies for breakfast and looking at more blended foods in general. Will start taking warm water with lemon in the AM instead of just plain water with my modifilan. Oh, and starting Intensive yoga and work out programs.

Nice one, are you taking any bitters on the back of the tongue pre meal? they are what help stomach acid the most and of course cleansing the liver.

Will be interesting to see if the bitters increase your iron levels, and im sure you said you dont notice any bad symptoms but will be interesting to see if you recieve any health benefits from the increased iron.

I was going to take that next but will add it in starting tomorrow. I've got milk thistle, also yellow dock is that a bitter as well? I know it's good for low iron somehow...

Yeah both of them are bitters, try and make sure they come in contact with the back portion of the tongue which is where bitter receptors are located. What form do you have these in, liquid or powder is fine, capsules obviously dont work.

3 times a day is fine, pre meal is best as it helps digestion. Increasing your water when using bitters is a good idea incase of any initial die-off symptoms from flushing the liver.

liquid. Taste soooo nasty!

From what I hear, she looked healthy when she was eating a high-fruit diet (prior videos) and her hair and energy look pretty bad now (or at least not as good).

She looks just fine in the most recent videos.

Does she say anywhere if she was taking any supplements for the 4 or so years she was vegan?

And all of a sudden I have lost interest in what she eats entirely...


[natashastmichael.com]

You want to look at the portfolio .

Coco, I don't get it...

That's what she does when she isn't living the high life in Bali, teaching people how not to do raw and making youtube videos.
You did check out the portfolio link at the bottom of the page? Her work is astonishing. Absolutely incredible.

She has said that she was an artist for ten years and was successful but that it was a hard life. I subscribe to her channel and I find her very inspirational from the standpoint of demonstrating how to live one's dreams. The Bali/Thailand videos show an absolutely gorgeous environment. However, she formerly lived in Montreal and was very positive in her delivery also. In other words, she seems to be pretty self-actualized, at least on video. She doesn't try and discourage people from eating raw--this development in her diet is pretty recent. One thing I have always respected about her is that she doesn't act like it's either be 100% raw or you are a loser and won't reap any benefits. I remember Victoria Boutenko saying in a book that even "only" 95% raw wouldn't be as good as 100%. And now Victoria eats steamed kale, LOL!

All that aside, did you look at her art? 2-5 months of 10 hours days in the studio for each piece. And they are UNBELIEVABLE! I've done that sort of work, it is endlessly tedious and easy to mess up. Hers are unreal, the perfectionism it's... it's... unspeakably good.

As for the rest, she's just on the path like the rest of us. Too bad it took a turn for the worst in her case, sure hope no permanent damage was sustained. It made me evaluate what I feed the kids and that's important. I think I'm doing alright with the supplements I give them, I would be doing the same no matter what our diet but am particularly happy that I'm doing it NOW. That's not the sort of thing you want to run into later on that B-12 deficiency business.
The comments were sad though, so many people in denial about this issue, thinking they can just eat sea veg and it'll all be ok. Or the folk who justify a red meat diet based on this sort of "failure" or whatever. It doesn't look good when a prominant person in this field gets really sick like this and it should be a wake up call to the rest of us but there are lots of people who just don't want to believe that raw vegan isn't the end all be all. I still question everything. Not to the point that I'm afraid to eat a little garlic or broccoli but I think about salt, oil, sugars in fruit, etc etc etc. I don't think anyone will ever get it absolutely right and even if they do whatever works for them will probably not work for any one else just the same.