Hi - I have never in my life before paid much attention to calorie counting or rDA of minerals. However recently I'm paying more attention to diet - greatly upping raw foods eaten and I'm close to vegan.
I understand from a little research that its quite easy to get the RDA amount of most vitamins such as vitamin C and B's etc from food.
However I'm finding it harder to work out for minerals such as zinc and iron.
For example as a women I'm apparently supposed to eat 18mg of iron per day. But struggle to make that up. Dates are supposed to be iron rich but on my pack it seems that 100g serving has less than 2mg and I dont ever eat 100g of dates at a time. Iron in 100g pomegranate is only 0.3 - 1.2 mg. I know green leaves are also supposed to be iron rich but when I look up how much they actually seem to contain it's similarly low....so please can anyone recommend how to get 18mg of iron from a vegan high raw (doesnt have to be 100%raw) diet? I don't have access to seaweed in any local shops.My haemoglobin is always bang at the bottom end of normal when I've ever had a blood test.
Similarly zinc.....
Many thanks....

merry Wrote:
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>My haemoglobin is always bang at the bottom
> end of normal when I've ever had a blood test.

Same here. It doesn't matter if I am raw vegan or a meat eater... always low iron anemic. In my case - and likely yours - supplementation is best.

RocketShip Wrote:
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> merry Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >My haemoglobin is always bang at the bottom
> > end of normal when I've ever had a blood test.
>
> Same here. It doesn't matter if I am raw vegan or
> a meat eater... always low iron anemic. In my
> case - and likely yours - supplementation is best.


Me too, no matter what is in my diet or for how long. It must be absorption or metabolism or who knows what.

the rda's are not accurate.
they are inflated.
the world health organization numbers are more accurate
and achievable with a reasonable raw vegan diet except for perhaps b12 and d, which, again, is diet independent.

Do you have low iron yourself fresh? I can say from my personal experience that having low iron is exhausting for me. I can feel that it's low when it is, my energy is just gone. I feel much better when I supplement but not when I consistantly eat iron rich foods of any sort. For some of us it's absorption, not that the RDA is too high.

Inflated? if anything the RDA's are low take vitamin C for example something like 60-90mg if i remember, thats probably only enough to stave off scurvy.

Same goes with iodine the RDA is only enough to stop goiter from occuring.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2011 03:10PM by powerlifer.

>Do you have low iron yourself fresh? I can say from my personal experience that having low iron is exhausting for me. I can feel that it's low when it is, my energy is just gone. I feel much better when I supplement but not when I consistantly eat iron rich foods of any sort. For some of us it's absorption, not that the RDA is too high.

no i do not.

although of course you will disagree, what people do not realize is that it is very difficult to determine a causative factor. you are not changing one variable at a time. secondly, any amount of improper food, including any cooked, will diminish energy and this is complicated by the various stimulative items that are eaten. we then attribute our energy levels to things that may or may not be the cause.



>Inflated? if anything the RDA's are low take vitamin C for example something like 60-90mg if i remember, thats probably only enough to stave off scurvy.

if you will study the us govt numbers you will see that they add in safety factors. factors that are not warranted in the case of a natural diet, and that you will see if you actually take the time to look at the WHO numbers and the rationale behind them.

For a start i was talking about UK but if i remember the US numbers are similar. Were talking about RDA here not what the WHO believe although i agree with them. You said the RDA's are inflated well 60mg for vitamin C doesn't look very inflated to me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2011 03:27PM by powerlifer.

Wow, you make a lot of assumptions fresh.
First of all you have NO Way to prove this assertion that even a little bit of cooked food is standing in the way of my absorbing iron. But I do, having followed a 100% raw for diet for quite a long period of time. So Pft.
Amazing how you can hand out health proclamations like you do with little to nothing to back them up. Not even personal experience. Amazing.

I still go with low stomach acid could be a possible issue coco, have you ever been tested for any of the possible disorders which can cause lower levels of iron coco, or do you eat alot of particular foods rich in phytic acid which binds to iron which in most cases is good to prevent iron overload. Or consume teas/herbs etc which are rich in tannins close to meals?

fresh,

The symptoms of iron defecit anemia aren't controversial! I learned in every biology and nutrition course in college that the US RDA are obsolete and too low for almost all micronutrients--we wait for revisions and they come piecemeal as study results are released--so this is also not controversial.


I get that you are are adamantly anti-supplements, but it isn't right to declare that they are unnecessary for everyone.

>Wow, you make a lot of assumptions fresh.
First of all you have NO Way to prove this assertion that even a little bit of cooked food is standing in the way of my absorbing iron.

i said that energy levels are reduced when eating cooked.
i made no claims about iron and cooked. so pftt


>Amazing how you can hand out health proclamations like you do with little to nothing to back them up. Not even personal experience. Amazing.

what i basically said in relation to this post and nutrients was that the WHO numbers are more accurate. not sure what you mean by "not even personal experience".

YOU don't have low iron, you have no idea how it is affected by food or supplements. Ditto with the energy of a person with low iron. It was not cooked food making me feel tired when my iron was low since I wasn't having ANY at all. It was Low Iron making me feel tired.
It's one thing to talk about what you think or your own experiences but to make sweeping statements like "People Don't need this/Do need that" etc is an absolute that is unhelpful and I think is going too far.

People seem to be one track mind at times, the only thing we need for energy is carbohydrates or raw food will take care of every problem you can think of. Energy production/formation, and overall energy is reliant on so many factors.

Ive not seen one study that suggests cooked food reduces energy levels, no wonder most of the cooked fooders look at us silly at times when we come away with stuff like this.

Sure raw food is better for energy in alot of cases because its more nutrient dense, less taxing on the digestive system etc but ive seen no credible evidence to suggest eating cooked food reduces your energy, trying telling that to the millions of meat eating cooked food professional athletes out there. You could eat all raw and still have low energy levels from missing factors in ATP formation, low adrenal gland function etc.

This is coming from someone who loves raw food aswell.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2011 04:05PM by powerlifer.

Anyways, back to the point. I like to use nutritiondata.com
There are many days where I only eat raw fruits and vegetables and getting enough iron dosen't seem to be a problem for me. If you eat enough fruits and vegetables especially green leaves, its not too hard. Zinc however I never eat the RDA, usually 50-70% of RDA

I have found eating some cooked green peas with either cashews or pumpkin seeds has helped me top up on zinc, and iron too.

I never know whether to trust them nutritiondata sites etc, i know the soil in the UK is very poor and deficient, surely no two fruits or vegetables are the same especially if they are grown in other countries ripe at the time etc not shipped thousands of miles in transit. But yeah there a good judge.

Good call on the pumpkin seeds good vegan source of zinc.

>Ive not seen one study that suggests cooked food reduces energy levels, no wonder most of the cooked fooders look at us silly at times when we come away with stuff like this.

not sure why you would need a "study"
you've either experienced it, or you haven't.
i've experienced it enough times to rule out other factors.

>Sure raw food is better for energy in alot of cases because its more nutrient dense, less taxing on the digestive system etc but ive seen no credible evidence to suggest eating cooked food reduces your energy, trying telling that to the millions of meat eating cooked food professional athletes out there. You could eat all raw and still have low energy levels from missing factors in ATP formation, low adrenal gland function etc.

controlled repeated personal experience is evidence.
i have no wish to convince you or anyone else. just pointing it out.
most people ingest stimulants, confusing the issue.

No that is anecdotal evidence at best and is no conclusion of anything.

I have seen many anecdotal evidence of everything curing cancer, curing this and that it is nothing more than anecdotal im afraid.

And yeah i dont stand for stimulants, stimulants are the worst stress on the adrenal glands which can cause alot of health issues.

powerlifer Wrote:
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> I never know whether to trust them nutritiondata
> sites etc, i know the soil in the UK is very poor
> and deficient, surely no two fruits or vegetables
> are the same especially if they are grown in other
> countries ripe at the time etc not shipped
> thousands of miles in transit. But yeah there a
> good judge.
>
> Good call on the pumpkin seeds good vegan source
> of zinc.


I agree, we really don't know how nutritious the food is or not? But right now Nutritiondata is the best tool I have. It certainly is a tool that can help.

I find it's easy on 3,000 or so calories of fruit and leafy greens to get enough zinc or iron. It's effortless for me, in fact.

Ok utopian life but please can you give me example of what you eat and how much to get full iron / zinc quota? I can then see if its something realistic for me....Thank you

Sure, here is two days. Let me know if you need more.


10 c. kale
5 c. chard
7 c. mixed greens
5 leaves basil
3 medjool dates
1 Brazil nut
2 c. carrots
2 c. cucumbers
8 celery stalks
2 large apples
1/4 fennel bulb
2 c. red raspberries
13 medium bananas\

2,584 calories total, 86% from carbs, 7% from protein, 7% from fat

60.6 g. of protein

Vitamin A - 1,242% RDA
Vitamin B6 - 704% RDA
Vitamin C - 1,559% RDA
Vitamin E - 88% RDA
Calcium - 166% RDA
Copper - 541% RDA
Iron - 156% RDA
Magnesium - 365% RDA
Manganese - 802% RDA
Niacin - 183% RDA
Pant. Acid - 217% RDA
Phosphorous - 194% RDA
Potassium - 291% RDA
Riboflavin - 286% RDA
Selenium - 342% RDA
Thiamin - 190% RDA
Sodium - 84% RDA
Zinc - 133% RDA

---------------------------
Another day

4 lb. red cherries
8 c. strawberries
5 bananas
4 oranges
10 c. kale
5 c. chard
2 c. tomatoes
1.5 avocadoes


2,906 calories total, 77% from carbs, 16% from fat, 7 from protein, 70.8 g. protein total

118.5 g. fiber


Vitamin A - 1,014% RDA
Vitamin B6 - 519% RDA
Vitamin C - 2,864% RDA
Vitamin E - 111% RDA
Calcium - 178% RDA
Copper - 678% RDA
Iron - 165% RDA
Magnesium - 327% RDA
Manganese - 833% RDA
Niacin - 222% RDA
Pant. Acid - 244% RDA
Phosphorous - 205% RDA
Potassium - 292% RDA
Riboflavin - 278% RDA
Selenium - 40% RDA (brazil nuts have so much selenium, i eat like 2 per week for enough, but not every day)
Thiamin - 233% RDA
Sodium - 52% RDA
Zinc - 132% RDA

Utopian life? Which online calculator do you use?

Seems my message didnt go through like i said, utopian if you do truly eat that id be suprised that your thyroid hasnt shut down with 15 cups of goitrogenic vegetables.

this isnt getting at you anyway, but with no iodine/seaweed to balance i find it had to believe you really consume the above because without a doubt eventually id put money on that it would shut your thyroid down. I know those who have consumed kale chips alone and this happened let alone 15 cups of goitrogenic vegetables.

I JUST read that nettles are high in iodine! I don't know how that would differ for nettles here where I live (the goiter belt, chronically iodine deficient farm soil) but what fantastic news anyhow! Tender young nettles, land seaweed! Stick some of that in your smoothie and drink it you guys!

WorkoutMan Wrote:
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> Utopian life? Which online calculator do you use?


fitday.com

i'm in tip-top condition, but thanks for the repetitive musings about thyroid and goitrogenic vegetables, powerlifer.

Repetitive maybe, but those who are reading that sample menu should know of potential problems. Ive seen people shut down there thyroid simply from juicing a cup of broccoli, spinach etc a day let alone 15 cups worth.

thank you!!

powerlifer Wrote:
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> Seems my message didnt go through like i said,
> utopian if you do truly eat that id be suprised
> that your thyroid hasnt shut down with 15 cups of
> goitrogenic vegetables.
>
> this isnt getting at you anyway, but with no
> iodine/seaweed to balance i find it had to believe
> you really consume the above because without a
> doubt eventually id put money on that it would
> shut your thyroid down. I know those who have
> consumed kale chips alone and this happened let
> alone 15 cups of goitrogenic vegetables.


Man its not that hard to belive. Theres tons of people everywere who consume massive amounts of drugs and they don't just keel over. Most people buy produce from all over the world, so theres no reason to assume her food is void of Iodine. Theres one good way to test thyroid, and thats a basal temperature test.

BTW Utopian, way to go for upholding the value of low fat raw. The digestive ease of eating low fat, allows someone to load up on fruits and greens, and consequently micronutrients. Your breakdown highlights one of the main premeises of 80/10/10 that people don't understand. You don't need to eat certain foods for certain nutrients when eating properly (alot of fruits and greens) b12 and D notwithstanding. Congrats for eating lots of greens which many people drop the ball on when they eat lfrv or talk about 80/10/10



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2011 03:11PM by WorkoutMan.

Even if the other produce had traces or small levels of iodine i find it still hard to believe 15 cups of goitrogenic vegetables wouldn't slow your thyroid down over time. Even with generous iodine intake id still wedge my bets that 15 cups daily would mess with your thyroid function eventually. This doesnt just apply to these goitrogenic greens, try 15 cups of flax a day and id bet the same result.

Anyway im not sure what those taking massive amounts drugs has to do with any of the above.

People deserve to know both sides of the coin though if there delving into raw incase possible complications occur.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2011 03:19PM by powerlifer.