I like the Matt Monarch who is so obviously in love with his wife and new baby. Good for Matt!

I don't like that RawFoodWorld - Matt Monarch's company - is still selling "Deer Antler Essence" (at $84.00 for a 2 oz. bottle):

[www.therawfoodworld.com]

Matt Monarch is making money off the suffering of innocent creatures who are being restrained, temporarily immobilized (sometimes by stun guns), and injured - so that greedy humans can saw off their antlers every year for the velvet on them. The velvet is a skin covering complete with blood vessels and NERVES. The procedure is painful, legally requires sedation (which is expected to be administered after these deer are somehow sufficiently restrained), and leaves bleeding open wounds where the antlers used to be.

It is violent, it is vicious, and it is cruel. Veterinarians are present for one session annually, and then the "farmers" are awarded with a certificate allowing them to proceed on their own.

What's next for RawFoodWorld? Bear bile?

But if there were an outcry about this product as vehement as the outcry about Adya Clarity, do we think RawFoodWorld would still be selling this?

Matt Monarch is responsible for the actions of his company, but it's also the fault of ALL OF US as well; because sadly, most RawFoodWorld customers and maybe most raw food "vegans" just don't care.

Below is RawFoodWorld's contact information. If you DO care, PLEASE, demonstrate your concern with a brief action: Write to RawFoodWorld and ask them to stop carrying this product!

[www.therawfoodworld.com]

It may not matter so much what we say. It will certainly matter if a lot of us write in.

Something else we can do is bring this up in response to all his videos. Bring this up on other raw food sites. Maybe write to Mike Adams about it. Or any other ideas would be welcome! I believe we could make a difference if enough of us cared. One vendor dropping this product would result in other vendors dropping it too. But if we don't care, we don't care.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2011 09:25PM by suncloud.

If you write to RawFoodWorld about this issue, please say so here.

I'm hoping that the good example of each of us will encourage others to act as well.

Suncloud - you are too nice - I cannot like the man who does this - I don't care how in love with his wife he is or how wonderful the new baby is. It's disgusting, disgraceful and he can never be taken seriously. I shall certainly write this evening.

I cannot seperate the person from their actions - they are the same thing in my opinion.

Thank you so much flipperjan for writing!

It's nice to know I'm not the only one.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2011 10:17PM by suncloud.

It's done Suncloud. Your link makes it very easy. I confidently expect to see everybody on this forum writing to them.

Here is the text of my message to them:

"I regret to say that I can no longer support your company, as it stocks a universally unethical item: Immature deer antler velvet in the Deer Antler Essence product. I cannot express how very disappointed I am to see this, here, of all places. A company such as yours should be immune to the general marketing platform of elevating the foibles of human nature, and the exploitation of other creatures required to satisfy them, employed by other companies in their appeals to customers. Very disappointed."

I was sorry to have to send this at this time, which should be one of familial bliss, but Matt Monarch, et al, have got to take stock of the way their company operates now that the frenzy of holiday hoo-doo is starting and a new year approaches. I know that seems patronizing, but I really feel that in the wake of the Adya Clarity debacle, they need to be more aware of who their demographic is and how their demographic feels about the practices of the company. There. I said it.

suncloud this is the message I sent to them:

Dear Rawfoodworld and Matt Monarch;

I want to write to you to express concern that I feel you are carrying a product that in my opinion doesn't align, with the nature of what you and Angela promote. I am talking about the product called Deer Antler Extract by Jing Herbs. I have done some searching and cannot find anything to lead me to any conclusion that Jing Herbs extracts this product in any way that is not cruel.

I hope you can remove this product from your store, so that in the future if I wish to purchase other products from you I am not discouraged from doing so, because I can't in all fairness support a company that promotes this kind of cruelty.

Best Regards, Jodi
nwjodi@yahoo.com
Mission, BC, Canada









Home :: Contact Us



The Raw Food World
406 Bryant Circle, Unit E
Ojai, CA 93023
866-729-3438

Your message has been successfully sent.

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2011 03:41AM by Jgunn.

Well I was really impressed with their birthing techniques on the video link someone posted recently (although don't know why they need to speak so slowly ).

Anyway I am really shocked hearing about this whole deer antler thing - people like them promoting such a thing??? I will write to them too....
It is so unecessary given how many herb and mineral health giving supplements are available...

I too, have written to them. Let's hope this product is withdrawn from sale.

Jgunn,
This might be an unfair comparison, but do you also avoid shopping at grocery stores which sell meat and dairy products also? That might be more difficult for most people to avoid in some locations. Some cities exclusively sell produce. In San Francisco I loved going to a coop which claimed to be vegetarian. They sold eggs and dairy products and fish oil capsules, but no whole fish, or flesh based foods. When it comes to supplements there seems to be a disconnect, I often wondered why the store claimed to be vegetarian but still had fish oil, like it somehow they could maintain the status of vegetarian because something was in a pill. I was amazed at how much better the energy seemed to be in store overall however.

I get my fruits and veggies from 3 places .. indvidual farmers at the flea market, the fruit and vegetable market that doesnt have animal products and my backyard or basement

i guess the markets you are talking about are also catering to lacto ovo and pesci -tarianas (dairy egg and fish eating vegetarians)

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2011 03:30PM by Jgunn.

If you do a search on the deer antler you will find that many, many stores sell that product. It's disgusting in my opinion. Whenever I think about countries like China that torture and kill animals for simply our human superstitions that it may harbor some magic health properties I am outraged and so very sad.

Perhaps take this a step further and while sending the Raw Food World a message that we don't like the practice of selling products that harm animals, we should do something more on the global stage.

Also there are hidden aspects we may not be aware of that innocent products that seem ok are in some ways harming animals.

I have written to Matt and Angela. But who do we write to about it on a wider scale?

Love,
Prism



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2011 03:54PM by Prism.

I feel so grateful for those who took the time to write in. THANK YOU! You have spoken for the deer, in a world where they literally have no voice.

(Thinking big...) Maybe a change will start small with one vender and then turn into an avalanche of all vendors! Maybe avoiding cruelty to one animal will turn into avoidance of cruelty to all animals. And then... maybe avoidance of cruelty to all animals will turn into avoidance of cruelty everywhere.

Or maybe not.

How long would this take anyway? Maybe millenia. We just have to say something if we care.

And what better place to start than our own backyard, where people claim to follow a "healthy" raw food lifestyle ---- while catering to animal cruelty for profit!?! I know that sounds bad... It sounds bad, because it IS bad!

More important than being raw is being beyond cruelty. It's a lifestyle priority and says far more about who we are than anything else.

Mahatma Gandhi -

- The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.

- To conceal ignorance is to increase it. An honest confession of it, however, gives ground for the hope that it will diminish some day or the other.

- Whatever you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it.

-The future depends on what we do in the present.

-Hate the sin, love the sinner.

I hope others will find the time to write to RawFoodWorld and ask - in whatever way they feel appropriate - for the withdrawal of this product.

Here's the RawFoodWorld contact link:

[www.therawfoodworld.com]

speaking of Monarch [www.youtube.com]

life vs lifelessness

Merry,
"...I am really shocked hearing about this whole deer antler thing - people like them promoting such a thing??? I will write to them too....
It is so unecessary given how many herb and mineral health giving supplements are available..."

What would be an appropriate substitute for this substance? If someone was looking for deer antler for some particular health need, what else might take its place?

There is nothing for which deer antler essence is vital, Mislu. It's in the same category as eating tiger testes to increase "virility." It is entirely specious marketing because it is based on superstitious rituals and exploits the singular vulnerability of male self-image--fear of loss of sex drive.

Good real-world treatments would be getting plenty of sleep and excercise, avoiding caffeine and processed sugars, avoiding excess cholesterol and estrogenic compounds[soy, dairy, meat] and having positive people around one that make one feel attractive.

Has anyone viewed the DVD called 'FOOD INC.'? It's been out on video in Oz for around six moths now, and really sheds light on the animal product industry. I was shocked to see that cattle for the beef industry are being fed corn, since it's so cheap, and the strain of e'coli bacteria that has mutated as a result. Also, the role that 'Monsanto' plays in this. I'll not (as far as I'm able) eating soya or anything with soya in it again. Apparently up to 90% of soya and soya products are from genetically modified seed.

Check it out, it's a real eye opener.
Cheers,
geo

what i don't like about food inc is it is one of the most anti veg pro capitalist movies out

life vs lifelessness

Tamukha,
I think thats rather a distorted view of TCM. I was honestly expecting another response, like some herb that is...well an herb. A a group of herbs that would do the same function or something similiar Sometimes things that are not plants are called 'herbs'.

I won't deny that some seek deer antler to increase 'virility' as you state. But there are other applications, if you open up a TCM book. I think that you might be surprised at what you find. Its not so singularly focused on that. For instance I recall reading about it being a good subtance for children who aren't growing, and for old women who are starting to get hunched over something like that. I have a book in storage, collecting dust, but I might just open it.

Those also might be superstitions if you wish to see it, but just calling it that doesn't address WHY other things are better alternatives. Also doesn't really address exactly how this substance is viewed in TCM and in contexts outside of TCM.

I didn't read anything about TCM in Tam's post Mislu, I don't think she's got that issue with it as a healing modality. It is probably the last thing I would pursue for healing though, I did study it for a while as part of a shiatsu course I took. Not my thing.

Mislu,

I guess my point was that whatever deer antler is supposed to do, and at The Raw Food World, it is sold for "male" issues, can be done with food and lifestyle more efficiently. Herbs that may help are ashwaganda, schizandra and damiana, not surprisingly, herbs that are traditionally used for adrenal and other "vitality" related disorders. As an aside, where is powerlifer?

I have only casually examined Oriental Medicine, and I go the sense that much of it is based on an exploitive relationship with other living beings, and specifically with regards to the harvesting of the primary and secondary sex organs of adolescent or young animals, absolutely based on nothing more than a psychological fear of loss of physical power. Children that aren't growing properly and who do not have a genetic disorder need better nutrition. Older women with Dowager hump need better nutrition. Etc, etc.

I do not mean to imply that TCM is culturally invalid; that's not what we're discussing, I don't think!

Just a reminder Mislu, I'm sure you mean well, but this is still a (nearly completely) vegan website, and deer antlers are an animal product. It's really not appropriate here to debate the merits of consuming animal parts, whether they happen to be included in some other tradition or not.

I really don't mean to be rude, because I've always enjoyed your posts.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2011 10:42PM by suncloud.

See, I didn't read that into Mislu's posts either. And there are lots of times someone asks "what can I eat instead of ___?" aka "where do you get your protein?" It didn't seem out of line to me at all.

Coco, I apologize to Mislu and to you if I was not as clear as I should have been. I was responding specifically to this statement from Mislu:

"I won't deny that some seek deer antler to increase 'virility' as you state. But there are other applications, if you open up a TCM book. I think that you might be surprised at what you find. Its not so singularly focused on that. For instance I recall reading about it being a good subtance for children who aren't growing, and for old women who are starting to get hunched over something like that."

Saying that something is a "good substance" (for anything) is, in my view, discussing the merits. There's a difference between asking, "how do I get my protein?", and saying, "Meat is a good substance for providing protein".

I'm just trying to avoid a disagreement here over whether it's OK to eat animal parts.

But, if we're only talking about good alternatives, I believe Tamukha has answered that question above. And of course any other good alternatives are more than welcome, in my view!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2011 10:58PM by suncloud.

Coco,
Well, I guess its true tam doesn't expressly say anything about tcm. But if you open the raw food world link about the product it sort of seems like shes addressing claims made there. The link on deer antler clearly uses terms used in TCM such as: jing, yang, yin, essence etc... Review of any reported claims is different I think from saying it should not be used. I think a lot of people must experience something from taking the product. I think another issue might be that raw food world provides it, a different matter from a general supplier which isn't raw or associated with anything vegan?

I am sure that the deer aren't pleased having antlers removed, but its a sort of in between zone. The animals survive the ordeal and can grow new antlers. I don't know of any animal that can regrow testes. There might be one out there, but I would be really surprised. Its clearly an animal product however, there is no debate about that.

I feel a little nauseous, or maybe just heartsick.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2011 11:03PM by suncloud.

Oh well! I won't dwell on it. I'm grateful to everyone who wrote in to ask RawFoodWorld to stop selling this product!

THANK YOU!

It might be explained what TCM means. Not everyone know the acronym. I believe it means Traditional Chinese Medicine.


I am a little lost with the later posts here. But the experience of people taking deer antler isn't worth my time to explore. People say and do a lot of erroneous and egregious things.

Love,
Prism

Prism,
I don't mean to offend. Its just that there is a belief in the properties of this substance and perhaps many others. With foundation or without foundation. Its expensive, and in the past I might have been tempted to try something like this. But if there are less expensive formulas, and perhaps vegan formulas that are just as effective or more effective, wouldn't one want to know about them?

I personally have gone to a chinese market to get a certain product. It did contain an animal product, not this. But it wasn't on the shelf anymore, so I asked management about that. They pulled the product, I don't remember the exact reason, so they suggested an alternative product. I just looked at the box and tried it. It was completely plant based, and it was a great product. I would use it again. Some herbal genius must have found a way to create the same effect without the unnamed animal product. So perhaps there is something which does something similiar to this product.

The whole subject makes me a little nauseous too but thanks for the clarity on the posts and info posted elsewhere that is not apparent in this thread.

I think it's worth it to look at what exactly a substance addresses in terms of health effect and think about what could be used as a substitute. I do that with food and herbs that come from other places in the world, looking for what I can find here at home that has the same properties.

Mislu, part of what I didn't enjoy about TCM was the lack of clarity in understanding of the patient. I mean by that that the person taking the medicine or having the treatment most often has no idea how it works, what it is intended to do (specifically), how and why etc. To me that leaves out one of the most essential aspects of healing which is a person's ability to understand, visualize and emotionally/intellectually take sovereignty over it, you know what I mean? When the cure is so shrouded in mystery that the person receiving it feels out of the healing loop, has handed over their healing power to the practitioner... well, IMO an essential step has been missed. Knowing what's going on, visualizing it, participating in it energetically, that is very important. I'm not really a hippy dippy sort of person but I do think the hormones associated with mindset bathe the cells of the body in positive and negative ways. Knowing what's happening and having confidence in it are very powerful things.