Any bodybuilders here?
Posted by:
WanderRA
()
Date: July 26, 2012 06:40PM If so what is your daily intake of calories, and what kinds foods do you eat? Re: Any bodybuilders here?
Posted by:
powerlifer
()
Date: July 26, 2012 06:55PM I bodybuild but am not raw by any means.
I take in about 4000 calories most days which is enough for me to repair and gain at my weight. Calorie intake really depends on height/current weight and activity level. [www.vegankingdom.co.uk] Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2012 06:55PM by powerlifer. Re: Any bodybuilders here?
Posted by:
WanderRA
()
Date: July 26, 2012 08:49PM Cool, what foods do you eat PL? Re: Any bodybuilders here?
Posted by:
jalanutan
()
Date: July 26, 2012 10:03PM Hi Wandera
Prior to my hip problem I worked out at the gym on an average once each day. I wasn't really trying to gain muscle, just fitness. However, I was continuing to gain in strength even though muscle bulk was almost not noticable. Of course, it's such a slow process that even though I didn't notice it much, my friends sure did, especially the ladies Now I guess you would like to know all about my diet too! Well, like I said, I wasn't trying to build muscle, and I really don't think that I was taking in anywhere near 4000cal, maybe not even 2000. Breakfast consists of nothing usually, or a piece of fruit. Lunch is my main meal of veg salad with beans, such as lentils or usually chick peas. Dinner is fruit salad both fresh and dried. At times when I go out with friends I might have a meal at a restaurant, but most have a vegetarian option anyway. If they don't, I ask for a big salad so no problem. Well that's it for me. But if I were going to go all out to build muscle, then I'd increase my workouts and add breakfast to my menu. And rather than tell my body what it should eat, I'd let my body tell me what it wants based on hunger etc. Cheers, jalan Re: Any bodybuilders here?
Posted by:
powerlifer
()
Date: July 26, 2012 10:26PM The key to increasing muscle in my opinion is to get enough protein i find 1g per keg of bodyweight or 1.5g to be perfect for quick repairing and gains. You must consume an excess of calories. Live relatively heavy compound exercises and rest often and you are pretty much good to go.
I eat Soya/tofu etc, lots of beans, legumes, small amount of gluten free grains such as quinoa, nuts, seeds, lots of vegetables and fruit of course. I also consume a few supplements such as Vega shake and sunwarrior as they are a convient easy way to get calories/protein especially post workout. Full body workouts is where its at in my opinion anyway. [www.vegankingdom.co.uk] Re: Any bodybuilders here?
Posted by:
jalanutan
()
Date: July 26, 2012 11:26PM Yes, I agree, our body's are designed to react to being stressed. In this case we're stressing our muscles. Re: Any bodybuilders here?
Posted by:
eaglefly
()
Date: July 27, 2012 12:30AM I couldnt buy into the full body workout yrs ago when I lifted.I blasted small isolated muscles each workout.Because that is what was presented in all the magazines.
Now I know better. Do those squats,deadlifts,pullups,and military presses! Vinny Re: Any bodybuilders here?
Posted by:
powerlifer
()
Date: July 27, 2012 10:09AM A full body workout is exactly the opposite of hitting the body with isolation exercises.
Full body workouts are designed to hit the full body heavy using compound exercises such as squats, deadlifts, bent over rows, military presses, bench press etc. That's right Jalanutan, progressive resistance is another key to gains. [www.vegankingdom.co.uk] Re: Any bodybuilders here?
Posted by:
John Rose
()
Date: July 27, 2012 11:25AM Here is an old post from this website...
Re: protein, nuts, and getting fat? MichelleG (---.odyssey.on.ca) Date: 08-01-01 06:28 Protein needs, even for athletes, are quite small. They are easily met on a vegan diet, especially one high in leafy greens. Below is a post I received from Jeff N. back when I first came on the boards--I had asked a question about protein needs. Jeff N. also doesn't recommend eating more than 1-2 oz. of nuts daily--definitely not enough to get "fat" on... M. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Here are some clips from some discussions I have had on the protein issue. I think you will find all the info you need in this. If not, let me know... Thanks jeff The odds of you putting on any significant amount of muscle has its limits on a truly healthy diet unless you want to do some unhealthy things. The major limiting factor will be your genetics, and if you don't have the genes for that kind of build, all the work in the gym will not put muscle on you. Also, most of the guys you see in the gyms who have big muscles who are not genetically endowed use drugs, and growth stimulants one way or another. They may be forcing anabolic growth through the use if steroids or other supplemental measures, that while may allow for rapid muscle growth and size, can be very very harmful. And while many of them will tell you that they do not take steroids or growth hormones, most all do and may not even know it. Why? Cause they eat lots of red meat and dairy and other animal products, which are loaded with growth stimulants and hormones, which are still in the meat. Europe won’t import American beef because of the level of hormones in it. The actual amount of true real muscle then someone can put on naturally, is about 1# per month. And that takes all of of work. Some of the increased size people see is do to fluid changes and not muscle growth. One of the reasons that many athletes and bodybuilders need more protein is simple. They don't eat enough carbs or enough calories. So, during their training, they run out or low on carbs, so in order to conserve the carbs (the bodies primary energy source) the body will start burning more protein for energy. Studies have shown this and the increased protein intake is mostly used for energy and not muscle growth and repair. However, if the same athletes would just increase his carb intake, through eating more healthy carbs, he would increase the amount of stored carbs (glycogen) and be better prepared to work out and conserve or reduce the amount of needed protein. And as all carbs contain protein also, he would still be getting plenty of protein Having said all that, let look at the actual numbers. The amount of protein someone needs based on US RDAs is .8 gm/kg body weight. And if someone is overweight, this is based on ideal body weight and not actual weight as excess weight is fat and doesn't need to be fed protein. Also realize that the .8 gm/kg is an overestimate with a safety factor figured in. The actual amount needed to maintain nitrogen balance, is only .3 to .4 gm/kg body weight. Many studies have done and much is written about how much bodybuilders need. The estimates run from .8 gms/kg saying that they don't need anymore then the regular person because this already is almost double true protein needs, to 1.0 gms/kg to the highest I have seen proposed is 1.5 grms /kg which is about twice the amount of protein then normal. So, lets run the numbers on me, I am 5'6" and weight a very healthy 125. My BMI is 20, which is the healthiest level. 126 lbs is about 55 kgs. 55 x .8 (low estimate) is 44 grams. 55 x 1.5 (high estimate) is 82. The other day I posted my diet and it had in it 70 grams of protein. This was eating only fruits and veggies, with a small amount of nuts and some rice. IF I made a slight adjustment to the diet, like more nuts, I would have easily surpasses the 82 grams of protein. In fact, I just made the changes and increased the nuts (3 oz at lunch and dinner instead of 1.5) and ran the numbers, at 2500 calories my diet now has 83 grams of protein in it. So, even if the protein estimate is correct and not over inflated, one could easily do it. But remember, the numbers are inflated so we really don't need that much anyway. There is more disease and death in the world due to excess protein then there is due to lack of protein (which hardly exists anywhere except some areas where they not only don't get enough protein, they don't get enough calories, which is the main issue). These problems include increased rates of many cancer, osteoporosis, kidney stones, gout, hypertension, & stroke, and heart disease. Most vegetables are excellent sources of protein, especially the green leafy ones, and the problem is most people don't eat enough greens. 1200 calories of raw broccoli supply a whopping 131 grams of protein. 1200 calories of romaine lettuce supply about 136 grams. Now granted, that's alot of greens, but it makes a very important point. Oranges supply about 24 grams per 1200 calories. SO you can see that vegetables are very high in protein. SO if you want more protein in your diet, eat a little less fruit and eat lots more greens. You will still need fruit in order to supply the energy for your workouts, but eat lots of greens. ALSO>>> "Differences in digestibility may be due to many factors that can adversely effect protein digestion including - The way the amino acids are linked in a protein -fiber -polyphenolic compounds -heat -oxidation -Addition of acids (vinegar) Unprocessed wheat and rice are better digested then ready to eat wheat or rice cereals. Vegetarian diets that are high in fiber can decrease protein digestibility. Digestibility of Different Diets and Different Foods (Sarwar G, Digestibility of protein and bioavailability of amino acids in foods. Wld Rev Nutr Diet. 1987; 54:26-70 Diet Digestibility (%) North American typical mixed 94% NA Lacto Veg 88 NA Lacto ovo veg 93 Brazil (rice, beans, meat, eggs, veg) 78 Guatemala (beans corn rice wheat cheese, eggs, veg) 77 India (rice, dal, milk, veg) 75 Food Oats, Ready to eat 72 Dried Beans 75 Rice, ready to eat 75 Wheat, Ready To eat 77 Soybeans 78 Soy Flour 86 Whole Wheat 87 Rice polished 89 WW Bread 92 Meat, Poultry, Fish 95 eggs milk 95 Therefore, assuming 95% of the protein a mixed omnivore diet is digestible compared with 85% of the protein in a vegetarian diet, vegetarians, especially vegans may need to consume about 10-15% more protein then omnivores. This would equal out to .9 gms per kg body weight as opposed to the RDA of .8 gms per kg body weight. Also remember, these numbers have built in buffers of about 25-50% as they are set for populations and not individuals If you remember in my post, I showed that a vegan diet could meet the needs even if they were set as high as 1.5 gms per kg bodyweight. This is still way over what they are saying a vegan needs to consume to compensate. So I accounted for all this and even more of a leeway, and showed that it was still adequate. Also, I said that the methods for evaluating protein quality had been recently revised. The protein efficiency ratio (PER) was the official standard for evaluating protein and was used in determining the RDA and for food label information. The PER was based on experiments done on rats who grow at a much faster rate then humans and therefore have a much higher protein need. They also have different requirements for amino acids, some as much as 50% higher. In recognition of this inadequacy of the PER, the FAO/WHO and the FDA have adopted a new scale called the Protein digestibility CORRECTED amino acid score (PDCAAS). While not perfect, it is much better and more accurate in relation to the true needs of humans and the scoring of food. This scale was not around in the 1970s or the 1980s PDCAAS for selected plant and animal foods (Sarwar, G Evaluation of the PDCAAS method for assessing protein quality of foods. Journal of association of official analytical chemistry, 1990; 73: 347-356) Food PDCAAS casein 1.0 Egg White 1.0 Beef 1.0 Soy protein .99 Pea flour .69 kidney bean .68 pinto bean .57 rolled oats .57 whole wheat .40 lentils .51 Also, The ability of plant proteins to meet protein needs when the only source or protein in a diet has been clearly shown also. At Michigan state university, students aged 19 to 27 were fed diets for 50 days that 70 grams of protein a day, 90% of which came from wheat and the rest from fruit and vegetables. All subjects remained in nitrogen balance (the true test of protein adequacy of a diet). One note, the first 2 weeks, the students were in negative nitrogen balance as they adapted to the diet, and then went in to positive nitrogen balance. Many studies that show plant food diets don't maintain nitrogen balance aren't followed long enough to allow for this adoption to take place. Several other studies have also shown that wheat protein can meet protein needs. And Other studies have shown that when rice makes up as much as 75% of the protein in a diet, nitrogen balance is maintained. Also studies have shown that then when single plant foods were used as the source of protein (corn, potatoes) subjects were able to maintain nitrogen balance. Now, these are extreme examples and I don't recommend them. As I said in my post on the RDAs, sometimes there can be sub clinical deficiencies that take years to manifest. SO while they may have survived and maintained positive nitrogen balance, we don't know if the amino acids profile and the protein level would have been enough for them to THRIVE on. From a percent protein from calories, all these numbers, taking into consideration all the above issues, a diet that is 10% protein would meet all these needs. However, realize for this to work, you MUST take in enough calories . Also studies have shown that taking in excess calories actually improves protein digestibility. Taking in an excess of 700 to 1000 calories reduces the amount of protein needed to maintain nitrogen balance by 30 and 50% respectively. Well, that's fine for normal people but what about athletes? As I said earlier, it is conceivable that athletes may need more protein to maintain nitrogen balance. The RDA does not have a separate recommendation for protein for hard work or training cause they believe that with the built in margin of safety already included, this would be covered. However, there is recent research that says that athletes may need up to 1.5 gms per kg (which I did quote in my first post). The theory is that they need more protein due to the breakdown of amino acids that need to be replaced. However (as I also mentioned) the actual need for lean tissue deposition is very small. If someone was to put on 1 lb a month of muscle (which is not easy and hard to do, month after month) one pound of muscle is 454 grams, 75% of which is water weight (muscle tissue is 75% water). So that means the other 25% or 113 grams per month, is protein, or less then 4 grams per day, assuming 100% efficiency and utilization. Assuming 85% efficiency, from plant protein, that would be about 4.7 grams. 28 grams are 1 ounce, so this is like less then 1/8 of an ounce a day of extra protein needed. This is a very very small amount. Realize also that this is highly controversial. Many scientists believe no extra protein is needed by athletes. Yet, I in my earlier post, used the highest estimates given, and still showed that a vegan diet can meet all the protein and amino acid requirements, taking into account all factors of digestibility and efficiency. Also realize, that athletes who don't eat enough carbohydrates (probably cause they are eating too much protein) have insufficient glycogen stores (stored carbohydrates). Athletes with low glycogen stores, metabolize 2x the amount of protein as athletes who are carb loaded. Why? Not due to muscle buildup, but due to the fact that the "extra" protein will be used for gluconeogenesis, which is the making of glucose (for energy) from protein. So the excess protein is needed for energy and not muscle, due to a lack of carb intake. Also remember, excess protein -Increases calcium excretion (can increase risk for osteoporosis) - Increase risk for kidney stones - Increase risk for kidney disease In health Jeff N Peace and Love..........John Re: Any bodybuilders here?
Posted by:
John Rose
()
Date: July 27, 2012 05:35PM Since my post above is so long, I thought I might put the one paragraph that says volumes...
However (as I also mentioned) the actual need for lean tissue deposition is very small. If someone was to put on 1 lb a month of muscle (which is not easy and hard to do, month after month) one pound of muscle is 454 grams, 75% of which is water weight (muscle tissue is 75% water). So that means the other 25% or 113 grams per month, is protein, or less then 4 grams per day, assuming 100% efficiency and utilization. Assuming 85% efficiency, from plant protein, that would be about 4.7 grams. 28 grams are 1 ounce, so this is like less then 1/8 of an ounce a day of extra protein needed. This is a very very small amount. Peace and Love..........John Re: Any bodybuilders here?
Posted by:
Utopian Life
()
Date: July 28, 2012 11:07PM Yeah, lots of fruit and greens. 2,000-3,500 calories per day. Re: Any bodybuilders here?
Posted by:
jalanutan
()
Date: July 29, 2012 12:42AM Dark green leafy vegies seem to work really well, but I vary the greens, such as spinach with kale. Although, I don't like the taste of kale much, and there are heaps of different varieties of spinach, so I usually go with that.
jalan Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
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