jalanutan, I think there is a good chance that garlic will kill the worms and eggs on your foods, if there is indeed such critters on your salad. However, garlic is an antibiotic, and as such kill good and bad bacteria. For healthy people, they have no need to kill their bacteria. Some people use the fact that garlic has inulin (a prebiotic), but so do bananas and many other foods, that don't kill the good bacteria in the process.

There are plenty of substances that have excellent nutritive properties, like chocolate, coffee, and other substances, but you have to weigh the negatives you get verus the positive that are in a particular food.

Right, I tend to speak from a purist
Point if view....

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You have to camouflage garlic in some other foods
> to eat it, should not that tell us it is not food?
> The body is too smart, it knows you are hurting
> yourself

Lol who told you so? For example, I love garlic just the way it is, I would clean the cloves and eat them as a side to a nice Italian salad, or Russian borsch, or simply piece or raw bread with some olive oil as a snack. The whole point is to experience the taste, not to camouflage it. Lol

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2012 04:48AM by chat.

Ive raised this point before as garlic gets some unfair press due to its anti-microbial properties.

Many fruit and vegetables also have potent anti-microbial/bacterial/fungal activity, take raspberries for example or pineapple. Does this now mean raspberries are bad for us because they have potent anti-bacterial compounds in them.

Even dates have shown anti-bacterial activity.

[www.vegnakingdom.co.uk]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2012 09:02AM by powerlifer.

Maybe u should read prana's
Post again

I know the point Prana was making and it was fair, in that foods have pro's and con's.

What i want to know is why fruit's anti-microbial properties are considered good but garlic and onions are considered toxic medicines by some. Its funny because many of the anti-microbial compounds in herbs are the same ones found in fruits and vegetables, yet they are't considered bad when they come from the fruit or vegetable source. Another loop hole in the NH theory lol.

Fruits and vegetables are just seen as nourishing/building blocks nothing more from a NH point of view, depsite the fact that each fruit and vegetable has a number of its own unique health benefits which can be related to the nutrients and phytonutrients they contain. Maybe that is broccoli's anti-cancer or anti-estrogen properties due to the compound DIM or raspberries anti-microbial properties from ellagic acid and other phytonutrients it contains. Are these now potent medicines that are toxic and if not then why are onions and garli singled out for there medicinal properties in a negative light?

Every food can be considered medicinal and those who continue to isolate and cherry pick one food for its "bad" anti-microbial benefits whilst they continue to eat fruits and vegetables which are also anti-microbial makes little sense to me.

Garlic and Onions have been proven time and time again to be some of the most healthy foods we can include in our diet. They have a mountain of good research that shows both Garlic and Onions are effective for reducing the risk of degenerative diseases and certain cancers.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2012 01:10PM by powerlifer.

jalan,

Quote

Of course, if it's a personal decision, fine, each to their own.

Precisely which is why it is OK to opine that I find alliums tasty but if you don't you needn't eat them, and not OK to opine that because you don't find them tasty, they are not food, so no one should eat them, because I said so, so there.

As for the antiparasitic qualities of alliums, opinions differ--in ancient medical systems, garlic was used to treat parasitic and fungal infections, but I opt to wash my produce well and soak it in a food grade hydrogen peroxide/water mixture that would kill any pathogenic critter that isn't supposed to be in my smoothie. Just to be safe.

Tamukha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>...in ancient medical systems,
> garlic was used to treat parasitic and fungal
> infections, but I opt to wash my produce well and
> soak it in a food grade hydrogen peroxide/water
> mixture that would kill any pathogenic critter
> that isn't supposed to be in my smoothie. Just to
> be safe.


So the ancients knew that garlic was a medicine, not a food.
So why are we having a debate on using garlic as food, making it what is not.

Ancient and traditional medicine systems such as Ayurveda use a wide variety of different botanicals including many fruits and vegetables for medicinal purposes.

As such every food can be considered medicinal.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2012 04:47PM by powerlifer.

Garlic has been called the “King of Herbs” and when we look at Herbs, there are Food Herbs and there are Medicinal Herbs. According to Dean Black, Ph.D., "A medicinal herb (one that controls) causes (1) improvement, followed by (2) a decline. These are the two phases of drug response that I mentioned earlier: (1) the drug's effect, and (2) the body's adaptation to it. If they notice a consistent two-phased effect from an herb, they call it "medicinal" and recommend that it be used short term only. Food herbs are "kingly", or "superior". Medicinal herbs are "assistants" that occasionally supplement the kingly food herbs. This is the natural healing point of view...In fact, from the natural healing perspective, foods are the only healing substances. Drugs do not - and cannot - heal, because a body that depends on outside control cannot be considered healthy."

Black also said that (1) foods, including food herbs, and (2) vitamin & mineral supplements were Nurturing or Natural. The former (1) was Whole or Natural, and the latter (2) was Isolated or Medical. Next he said that (3) medicinal herbs, and (4) drugs were Controlling or Medical. The former (3) was Whole or Natural, and the latter (4) was Isolated or Medical.

Peace and Love..........John

completely unrelated to potatoes but sorta related to garlic

does anyone remember their parents or grandparents rubbing garlic all over the wooden salad bowl for flavor?

and you of course did not EVER wash the salad bowl in soapy water (tatamount to wooden bowl sacrelige ..the bowl was only wiped out after said salad .. the salad oils an garlic becoming one with the bowl)

i kinda wonder if the garlic part didnt have something to do going way back with kinda disenfecting the bowl as well as adding garlic flavor to mask the rancidity smell of the oiled wooden bowl

just a thought

i still have my nana's old garlic wooden salad bowl set .. but i use glass bowls for my salads these days .. nanas is a decoraction in the china cabinet (that still smells like oil an garlic lol)

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

powerlifer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know the point Prana was making and it was fair,
> in that foods have pro's and con's.
>
> What i want to know is why fruit's anti-microbial
> properties are considered good but garlic and
> onions are considered toxic medicines by some.

has nothing to do with it.

raspberries do not burn mucosa as garlic does.



Its
> funny because many of the anti-microbial compounds
> in herbs are the same ones found in fruits and
> vegetables, yet they are't considered bad when
> they come from the fruit or vegetable source.
> Another loop hole in the NH theory lol.
>

strawman

> Fruits and vegetables are just seen as
> nourishing/building blocks nothing more from a NH
> point of view, depsite the fact that each fruit
> and vegetable has a number of its own unique
> health benefits which can be related to the
> nutrients and phytonutrients they contain.

foods do not have benefits.

thinking about foods having benefits presumes that we are constantly under attack and that only by eating certain foods can we manage to be healthy.

the paradigm is inverted

maybe someone can tell me about all the benefits
Of bamboo for the panda or euc for the koala
And what foods u would suggest they eat for antimicrobials or antiinflammatories or anti cancer compounds.

fresh,

powerlifer's post is actually elegantly argued and contains no strawmen. Your mentioning koalas and pandas, however, leaves me puzzled.

Again, if anyone here wishes to consider alliums outside their personal definition of "food," okey doke. This does not mean that Merriam-Webster's or the rest of us must accept that definition.



[Why does this keep happening here? . . .]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2012 10:55PM by Tamukha.

Strawman in that nh does not concrrn itself w anti microbials

Thx Prana, totally logical.

Tam, wow how assertive, I really like the 'so there' at the end I like garlic, but I might lean towards using black pepper more now, my choice hey.

Ok, what about black pepper, does it kill bacteria also???

jalan

Jgunn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> completely unrelated to potatoes but sorta related
> to garlic
>
> does anyone remember their parents or grandparents
> rubbing garlic all over the wooden salad bowl for
> flavor?
>
> and you of course did not EVER wash the salad bowl
> in soapy water (tatamount to wooden bowl sacrelige
> ..the bowl was only wiped out after said salad ..
> the salad oils an garlic becoming one with the
> bowl)
>
> i kinda wonder if the garlic part didnt have
> something to do going way back with kinda
> disenfecting the bowl as well as adding garlic
> flavor to mask the rancidity smell of the oiled
> wooden bowl
>
> just a thought
>
> i still have my nana's old garlic wooden salad
> bowl set .. but i use glass bowls for my salads
> these days .. nanas is a decoraction in the china
> cabinet (that still smells like oil an garlic lol)


My grandma is Italian, and she taught us to never use the soap to clean a wooden chopping board. Instead she takes a bit of wine vinegar (white so that it doesn't colour the board) and sprinkles it on the board. Then she takes a lemon, cuts it in half and rubs the lemon into the vinegar and the chopping board. After couple of minutes of good energetic rubbing she just wipes the board with a clean towel and it's done, the board is clean and disinfected, no water or soap required!

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<

Yeah, I like that idea, and either/or I reckon, garlic or vinegar. Whatever, It's gotta be better than soap anyway.

Actually, I only wash my crockery/cutlery with hot water/detergent once a week or less, or when I've used anything with oil in it.

Since I mostly only prepare raw food, there's no oily residue which would need hot water/det. Ok, the only reason I can do this, is that I rinse off immediately, so there's no time for any bits to dry on plates etc.

Yes, I live alone, typical bachelor haha

jalan

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Strawman in that nh does not concrrn itself w anti
> microbials

The point i was trying to make, is that you are happy to consume anti-microbials and other "medicinal" alkaloids from fruit and vegetables but not onions, garlic or herbs and yes you can cherry pick some side effects like the gastro-irritation that a small number of individuals get with garlic, but it doesn't detract from the fact that all food can be considered "medicinal" and that all food changes the bodies physiology in some way or another.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2012 08:29AM by powerlifer.

powerlifer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The point i was trying to make, is that you are
> happy to consume anti-microbials and other
> "medicinal" alkaloids from fruit and vegetables

you are incorrect.

I am not "happy to consume"

I recognize that plants have defense mechanisms and
minimize my intake of the above

what you are apparently denying (even though your own body tells you so)
is the varying strength of those defense mechanisms and their impact on
the being ingesting them. in other words, garlic crosses over that line of
nutrient/antinutrient that makes it not ideal for humans

this is simply my view and if people want to take it as a personal attack
on their diet, that is not my concern.

if someone were to say, avocadoes are too fatty for humans, and i ate avocadoes
, i wouldn't get defensive and prickly
about it, i would take in the info, modify my behavior or not and continue on my way.


> but not onions, garlic or herbs and yes you can
> cherry pick some side effects like the
> gastro-irritation that a small number of
> individuals get with garlic

is it possible that it's most people, and not a small number,
because most people don't notice because they are
so sick and desensitized to it?

, but it doesn't
> detract from the fact that all food can be
> considered "medicinal" and that all food changes
> the bodies physiology in some way or another.

as i'm sure you know, and is shown below, for example,
the body has INHERENT mechanisms to preserve and protect and nourish itself


What I am objecting to is the focus on foods as anti this
or anti that, when those functions are inherent to the physiology
of humans and other animals, and not dependent
upon specific foods eaten.

this ability is an extension of simple organisms ability to recognize
self/other

[www.sciencedaily.com]



i still await your recommendations for the koalas and pandas as to
your prescription for the
prebiotic, probiotic, antimicrobial items they should eat
since their bodies can not manage by themselves .

the fact that they are wild is irrelevant
the fact that humans are damaged is irrelevant
the point is in your zeal to prescribe, you deny the powers of the body to heal
when left alone, and you misinterpret your personal experiences that allegedly support your views of micromanagement.

I do not understand why every thread these days must turn into some ridiculous theoretical dispute.

Just let people who want to eat raw garlic and onions eat them--it doesn't threaten you-the-NHer or raw foodism in any way--and leave it at that.

If people are unknowingly hurting themselves, we have the right to tell them.

RawPracticalist wrote...

I thought the thread was about raw potatos

No one is prescribing anything, the majority consider and use garlic as a food. Garlic rocks both as a food and for its medicinal purposes.

What do you eat as a raw vegan 80/10/10er fresh, if you minimize your intake of fruits and vegetables?

The rest of your post, sure the body does have the ability to heal but overall that is a far too simplistic view on health/disease and returns to the defacto dogma that a raw vegan diet is a cure all panacea.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2012 06:33PM by powerlifer.

John Rose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RawPracticalist wrote...
>
> I thought the thread was about raw potatos
>
>

Interesting

powerlifer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No one is prescribing anything, the majority
> consider and use garlic as a food.rlic rocks
> both as a food and for its medicinal purposes.


Now I know for sure - if the majority thinks so

>
> What do you eat as a raw vegan 80/10/10er fresh,
> if you minimize your intake of fruits and
> vegetables?
>

not f and v, antinutrients.

I dont think I am 811 in some ways.

> The rest of your post, sure the body does have the
> ability to heal but overall that is a far too
> simplistic view on health/disease and returns to
> the defacto dogma that a raw vegan diet is a cure
> all panacea.
>


Not panacea. Nearly panacea.

> [www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

You say potato I say pot.. oh wait, I say potato too.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not panacea. Nearly panacea.

I take it we just throw in a little water or juice fasting and then we have the cure for all diseases right ?.

Yet it continues to not work for the majority, and not because people are doing it wrong either. Can a raw vegan diet help many issues, definitley im sure of it and have seen it. Is it a cure all or nearly cure all, not in my opinion anyway from what i have seen. Infact raw is more of a cleanse to me, i don't see many long term raw foodists who don't include cooked food or are relient on supplements to some degree.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/2012 08:47AM by powerlifer.

Post timed out:

Many of the long term raw fooders who once posted on these forums and were considered long term raw foodists are now gone due to problems with following an all raw diet in the long term. That has to say something, that a raw diet isn't the panacea that its often marketed to be, or people wouldn't have problems following such a diet.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/2012 08:55AM by powerlifer.

RawPracticalist,

Quote

If people are unknowingly hurting themselves, we have the right to tell them.

Yes, once or twice, but not to insist upon your viewpoint as the Only Way until the rest of us cry "uncle."

Also, please consider that the justification that allium eaters are "unknowingly hurting themselves" is, at best, patronizing, and at worst, infantilizing, because it presumes bone ignorance on the part of people that eat alliums.