I got a new coworker. This person is so obese that can barely walk. Apparently, loaded with other issues. I talked and initially this person said that everything I said was true. Next day, this person comes loaded with fried chicken and eating junk from the candy machine. The problem is getting bigger like a snow ball, problems started from junk diet, abused body, probably losing the job, falling asleep on chairs, don't care attitude, etc. If a baby angel would thread down from the ceiling with the diet message, this person would not change. Looks like the brain is fried but ... there could be a lighting and hope. It will be interesting to see what happens.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2012 07:12PM by Panchito.

Two things - one thing that bugs me is - people who you have a discussion with - about whatever - and they're right there with you every step of the way, totally in agreement, on the same wavelength, and you feel really good that you're of like minds. Then later, they turn around and by their actions or words - 'throw cold water in your face' or 'stab you in the back' or 'do an about-fact'. If you know what I mean.

The second thing is - I think we should be giving 'obese' people some 'tough love'. Why do they get to have special (usually free) treatment - like those motorized things they ride around in and laws against (probably usually made-up or imagined or contrived) 'discrimination', etc.

Panchito - maybe some gentle words of encouragement and leading by example might filter through to your co-worker. It's easy to forget how 'weird' and 'different' a vegan diet or even more so a raw vegan diet is to those who have grown up with fast food etc. It's a massive change to get ones head around - tiny steps do add up in the end.

They're addicted to the dopamine response that occurs after eating overtly fatty foods, possibly to the extent where they're completely de-sensitized. Showing them that healthier fats can be eaten and even lead to weight loss is probably the best way to go. I don't advocate eating meat, but not all meats are built the same. Fried chicken is the absolute bottom of the barrel. As Jan said, "tiny steps." A healthier version of their current diet could someday pave the way to a meat-free existence. If they don't get some humane support, they won't change until they have a near-death experience, if even then. Most people want to talk to healthy people about health, they just need to know that they can trust you to not be harsh. I would not go to the OP or Kid Raw for this type of help. "Tough love" is great for getting youtube hits but has zero lasting impact in real-time. All you can do is gently plant a seed and hope that someday it will grow.

Majority of Amurrricans will be obese by 2030. [www.huffingtonpost.com]

thats what i like about durianrider's approach. its caring but in your face. long, gentle conversations dont always work. sometimes people need to be SHOWN the way. they need a fire lit beneath them.

of course, not a lot of us are comfortable doing this. with this particular individual, i would call them out on their bad eating habits in a friendly way.

"double cheeseburger?! awwww, cmon! you gotta eat to live, brother/sister!"

also make sure they see your eating habits. walk by them while eating a banana and remark about the energy it brings you. whenever people comment about my green smoothies, i tell them "yep! im gonna feel UHH-MAZING after i drink this too! best feeling in the world!!!"

and i always return the question, "dont you want to feel amazing every moment of the day?"

if they dont get it after that, THEN you quit. lol.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2012 09:33PM by fruitylou.

Panchito,
A baby angel? you mean like a paper one? I am not sure what you mean. Well, there is a disconnect for sure. A lot of people think that there is no real connection between diet and health. Then again, a lot of people think that there is, but listen closely to what they believe is healthy. I am sometimes shocked.

I myself am sometimes concerned, I have worked too much in the health fields, and there is a disconnect between what can and should be done to maintain health. Its just 'easier' to get some type of pill I guess to manage disease. You know illness just 'happens' for no apparent reason.

Maybe what is actually needed is a demon to show people the way, not an angel.

What does your title mean: "watching?" Why are you watching another person? You mentioned that the person is "loaded with problems." Is your life perfect? I am not trying to be rude in the least but it's really not our business to delve into other people's diets and issues. The only exception to that is if they complain about a health issue. Then I feel totally within my right to give them that perspective. But otherwise, I sometimes feel that it could be anxiety-producing to see an obese person, as if it could spread to you. So the defense mechanism is to try and solve their problem. I am not saying this is what you are doing but I have seen an example where a friend was phobic to stand behind an obese person in line for some food item!

I was once telling this friend about the detriments of refined sugar. She was taking it in and was dutifully impressed as she continued to pour white sugar all over her cereal. There was a definite disconnect!

I have never been able to fully understand why people can't implement what they know to be true but then again, I too have had some issues getting back onto raw when I backslid and was eating a more standard, though vegetarian diet. No doubt, it's a study. What I have found is that getting back on is easier than ever insofar as the fact that once I start on raw again, my body and mind knows the drill and kicks right into gear.

Panchito, it sounds like you have made a positive impression on your co-worker and I am sure your example goes a long way in influencing their thinking. I like to tell people that they don't need to be like me to begin to realize improvements in their health and though they may eventually find themselves doing more and more of what I subscribe to, they can start right away by eliminating some very obvious issues in their dietary regime. If they can't quit ALL the junk, quit some to start but stay focused.

Banana who,
Well, obesity doesn't spread like a virus. However, if one spends a lot of time around someone with poor eating habits, it can sometimes 'spread', especially if they are very pushy. I suppose the opposite can be true, but for whatever reason its easier to go 'downhill'with bad food habits, rather than uphill. Most of the time it takes more effort to eat healthier.

I think I understand about 'watching'. I always got that message from my mother in law. I did my best to avoid criticism. But if I ever avoid something she always took it as a criticism of her, as if I was saying something wasn't good enough for me. In some ways thats sort of true. But why she never stopped to think maybe its not good enough for me either?

Guy from my workplace died in his sleep over the weekend. To all outward appearance he seemed healthy. Not overweight or anything. He looked in good shape, work out shape.

A few other guys were telling me today that the guy who died was always telling them that their habit of going to Wendy's and DD was going to kill them early.

Bummer if you find fault with people's eating habits and you die before them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2012 10:53PM by NGU.

Mislu, your MIL went too far in getting offended that you wouldn't what she did. It means she knows deep down that she is eating the wrong foods. Ever heard about strength in numbers? Some people try and enlist others into dysfunctional behavior (like drinking, smoking, eating crap) in order to not feel like they're doing anything wrong.

But if we are watching someone else, it implies that we have nothing to improve in ourselves. Maybe you (not YOU but the univeral "you" are the perfect weight--so what? There might be personality traits you need to change or other habits to get rid of. I sometimes see the crap that people throw into their carts but I also know that I am being judgemental. It horrifies me what a lot of people will consume. But I have to look in the mirror and realize that there is an ego boost to feeling superior in terms of diet.

Raw4ever, and Banana who.

Some other things have just occured to me. My mother inlaw commonly refers to whole grain products as 'crap'. And anything reduced fat, reduced sodium, or similiar things as 'fake'. The only possible benefit is that she avoids hydrogenated oils in margarin.

My partner explained something to me recently. She is old enough to be raised with the consciousness that whole grain foods are like animal feed. They are not 'refined'.

(1.With impurities or unwanted elements having been removed by processing.
2.Elegant and cultured in appearance, manner, or taste)

Its never occured to me that there was ANY positive sense of refined food products, but apparently this outdated terminology must have some subconcious association for a lot of people. It should be 'depleted' food sources.

In her days, these depleted food sources were thought of as being more desired, and somehow tastier. Something like that. So she has a taste for them, and thinks they are 'healthy' because they are available in the store, and that her doctor hasn't said not to eat them.

She loves animal products. But then again she was raised during the depression when meat was expensive, and therefore very valued. Its abundant and cheaply available, but she still thinks they are to be valued. When she was young she ate mostly vegetables and beans, a little fruit, and maybe some animal product once a week or something like that. She has never been vegetarian, but maybe closer because of economic pressures outside of her control.

So, just a few notes on possible cultural things around food which perhaps complicate the equation.

The peasants (and this was centuries ago) ate brown bread. White flour was a status thing like whole grain is now. I do eat some dairy and with yogurt, I never get low-fat. It's not supposed to be good for you and those bakery items that are low-fat are just more loaded in sugar, so in a way she's right.

It is very hard to change habits and we are not here to meddle with another person's choices in life, IMO. If she wants to change, then she will change. It's her choice. If she complains about a health condition, you would have the right to discuss alternative ways of dealing with it (including dietary changes). But I think the best way you can help her is to model good eating habits.

Mislu, it's interesting that you bring up the word "refined" because I was recently thinking that it should be applied to a raw food diet. In other words, a finer diet.

NGU, OMG! I guess you never know.

B who,
I don't know, whole grain is 'healthy' in todays consciousness, it hasn't undone the idea of status, or 'taste'for white flour. Well I guess in a way white flour has lost its status, as its so incredibly cheap. She could get a 5 lb sack for less than 6 oz of teff which is my favored grain.

She gets some low fat flavored yogurt which she thinks is healthy. She gets these filled with artificial sugar substitutes. For whatever reason she doesn't consider that fake, as its recommended that diabetics reduce sugar, and she does that in a way I guess by consuming them.

Its never really a discussion that we have really had. Only a one way criticism of what I eat. That she doesn't believe in that. Without ever saying anything she offers these and other criticisms, very defensive. Maybe a little too defensive. And what for I am not sure. Even if I get something special for my partner she has too say something negative about it. Its not even offered for her! For example I got him some special orange peppers for his eyes. She immediately said that she doesn't like those, they taste funny. But in an incredible nasty tone.

I think sometimes she actually wants me to suggest things to improve her life. Like she feels overlooked. Could be a projection of mine. But, she hasn't asked for any real input of that sort, so I don't know. I am thinking for a moment. No, the closest to that was when I was talking to her daughter about nutrients in kiwi. She listened in to hear what I had to say. Her daughter suggested that she had some to help her eyes, as she has some problems.

So maybe some of these criticisms are a way of people processing information in a way?

If she rejects things out of hand (instead of at least considering them) or makes unsolicited negative comments on what you buy your partner, she seems closed to any kind of reasoning in that area. If you do suggest things, do you notice that she always negates what you say? I have found that people like that want an excuse to rebel. If you don't try and change her, she has nothing to fight against. It's really just human nature--I think most people will do this around some issue.

B who,
Thank you for the insight. I don't make any suggestions, I hardly see her anymore. Shes kind and generous, but very traditional with food, and just about everything. If she hasn't heard of something she usually dismisses it out of hand. There is a certain power to that, but limitations also.

Mislu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> She gets some low fat flavored yogurt which she
> thinks is healthy. She gets these filled with
> artificial sugar substitutes. For whatever reason
> she doesn't consider that fake, as its recommended
> that diabetics reduce sugar, and she does that in
> a way I guess by consuming them.

These products are my absolute biggest pet peeve at the moment. So many have bought into the low fat approach and all my friends eat these low fat yogurts that. The funny bit is often the calories they save from fat an made up by the increase in simple sugars and weird sweeteners lol. So you are trading some decent sources of fat for some simple artificial refined sugars and sweeteners. Normal live yogurt is much better than this fake low fat flavoured crap that they are heavily marketing due to the low fat craze.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

Second try. I was able to sell this person a new bottle of sublingual methyl-B12 5000 mcg. Hopefully the b12 will boost the energy level and makes this person walk. I also spent one hour preaching and making graphical descriptions (negative) of the effects of junk, meat, etc. Somehow now I sympathize with doctors and how they must feel about people with bad habits. I don't want to feel responsible for this person but I'll add my grain of sand.

I got a new colleague this year, and she is quite overweight. Funny but when I poped into her office to say hi, she was eating a takeaway plate with fried egg, sausage and canned beans, all swimming in fried oil.

I smiled to her and said: that smells fantastic! Well, it sorta did, even though I would be very unlikely to ever eat anything like this again.

But i would have said the same even if it smelled disgusting to me. It's a mere politeness, which doesn't commit you to absolutely anything. For it is certainly possible for a food to smell nice and be unhealthy at the same time. Yet this remark is friendly, relaxed and polite.

It would never occur to me to preach anything to this person. She brings chocolates, other sweets, she eats those horrible 'weight watchers' bars we have in uk which are full of chemicals. So what? It's her life, and she is fully entitled to live it they way she wants. Who am I to butt in? Lol, wouldn't even cross my mind.

She did see my lunches made of sprouts and veggies, and one time commented that it's super healthy. I said, yeh, I'm following this little diet which is based on raw food. She said 'oh, that's interesting, why?' To which I replied, well because it's sorta healthy, and because I used to have problems with my stomach and this diet seems to be helping with it.

That was all, and we are good friends despite our differences in diets, and we hardly ever discuss what we eat.

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2012 02:55PM by chat.

For me it's very distressing to watch other people ruin their health. I have a co-worker who had cancer. And he also showed interest in my diet. I shared some movie links with him, including The Gerson Miracle, as well as some good articles. He was impressed, and bought himself a juicer And just as others above stated agrees with me on the correct diet. But continues drinking coke, eating cookies, fried chicken, red meat, all kind of conventional crap. It's very sad for me to see that he's working on his 2nd cancer. But if with all the info that I have given him, he's still eating the way he is, what can I do? I don't want to be pushy, people tend to be very sensetive God bless this person. Let's hope that his cancer won't come back.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2012 05:22PM by littlemermaid.

Disagree. Most people don't want a coach. They don't want someone flogging them across the finish line. What they do want is simple, straightforward, useful, practical, sound, honest, agenda-free knowledge which tells them why they need to get healthy and which in turn motivates them to do so on their own. No barking egos are necessary. Take this video about refined sugar for example. It explains how it poisons people in simple, wholesome terms that are accessible to anyone...end of story. There's no wading through all this other crap that you get with gurus. [www.youtube.com]

fruitylou Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> thats what i like about durianrider's approach.
> its caring but in your face. long, gentle
> conversations dont always work. sometimes people
> need to be SHOWN the way. they need a fire lit
> beneath them.
>
> of course, not a lot of us are comfortable doing
> this. with this particular individual, i would
> call them out on their bad eating habits in a
> friendly way.
>
> "double cheeseburger?! awwww, cmon! you gotta eat
> to live, brother/sister!"
>
> also make sure they see your eating habits. walk
> by them while eating a banana and remark about the
> energy it brings you. whenever people comment
> about my green smoothies, i tell them "yep! im
> gonna feel UHH-MAZING after i drink this too! best
> feeling in the world!!!"
>
> and i always return the question, "dont you want
> to feel amazing every moment of the day?"
>
> if they dont get it after that, THEN you quit.
> lol.

new news. This person has agreed to do a 5 day fast starting at the end of next week. Yet, after that, this person walks in eating one of those big buns from the candy machine as breakfast? And still eating fried chicken. The darkness has a strong pull.

I don't think it's darkness; modern humans are just lackadaisical.

Earlier this year I was watching "The Nature of Things with David Suzuki" when they did an update on autism theories. One of the people they featured was an Ethiopian immigrant woman, whose two sons born here were diagnosed, but whose family back in Ethiopia is autism-clear. She talked about how she was sure that a wholesome diet like everyone eats "back home" could help ameliorate the symptoms, so she is endlessly juicing fresh fruits and veggies for the boys, and making gigantic salads and bean dishes for them. They were experiencing improvement with every passing month.

The next case featured was an American woman who, astoundingly, has confirmed through her own son's two decade autism journey that, as suspected by some researchers, an overgrowth of a pathogenic microbe that overwhelms good probiotic bacteria in early childhood is a contributing factor to sudden onset autism. So antibiotic treatments--which have helped her boy a great deal--have been paired with a "bacteria-starving" diet. You guessed it, RLFers: Lots of animal products and almost no "carbohydrates," particularily fresh fruits or vegetables. [sigh]

My favorite restaurant cuisine has been Ethiopian food for years & I live close to an enclave near Berkeley, CA which has many Ethopian restaurants & groceries. However, they cook vegetables pretty close to mush (someone once called them "paste" & serve them on injera, which is a fermented sour bread. They also eat beef, chicken & lamb, though not pork, & use quite a bit of butter in their cooking. They also are big coffee drinkers & like honey wine. Although I love their food, mainly because of the hot& exotic spices, except for a tiny lettuce & tomato salad, I've never been served anything remotely raw, never had a fruit dish, nor what I would consider anything particularly healthy. Not sure where that lady being interviewed was coming from. You might check out "Ethiopian cusine" on Wikipedia for interesting food particulars.

sometimes i like to watch people who get it
i'll sit at a table drinking a green drink
and see a person who is very athletic looking, high vibration, laughing or smiling and
feeling upbeat

and i'll say " hey there, watcha got there?"
and they'll throw an orange up in the air and catch it behind their back and give me a wink

and i'll say " oh yeah? join the club!

and we'll chat it up and talk about pyramids and light angles and trigonometry

and how all those things conspire to open up portals within the consciousness matrix

and the other person will say " heck.. maybe i should be eating a more sub acid fruit"

and i'll say " yeah?"

and they'll shrug their shoulders and say " ahh... maybe not...this is good"

and i'll say " yeah!"

just another day in paradise for me

Some people will eat healthy only so that they can afford eat junk. But some will get lost or will never know health. For these lost people life is a bag of tricks full of pills. They've never seen the sunlight.

Well, KFCA, she was Ethiopian. Maybe Ethiopian restaurants here are catering to city folk, or mostly Americans, even. The local one here puts so much niter kebbeh in everything, I can't eat there. But then, there's a local Indian restaurant that uses way more ghee than a typical southern Indian household uses, or so I have been told. I try to remember that rural people in other countries, especially in the developing world, generally use purer food preparation methods, and that affluence almost without exception leads to eating higher on the food chain.

Injera, as breads go, is among the healthiest because of the teff seed's peculiar nutrition profile and because the fermentation partly survives the fast open-baking process.

Back to OP: That this Ethiopian woman was focusing on the freshest, least processed plant-based foods to help her sons is commendable, especially considering the tack taken by the American mom. The Ethiopian mother "gets it."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2012 02:51PM by Tamukha.

I'm a fat vegan, but I was even more fat before becoming vegan, over the last 4 years of veg I lost 100 pounds, I'm still pretty fat, I'm not active, but I don't eat that bad, I'm not a huge junk food vegan, but I was addicted to carbs, I went raw 2 weeks ago, I'm at about 90% currently, and I can understand why most people just can't go "cold turkey" raw, the raw diet is extreme, but it can be extremely enlightening, a great personal journey. Some people just can't handle it, the textures and addicting chemicals, salt, sugar that is in everything on the shelves and the street corners are just so tempting, the media, everyone is pointing at us to give in and eat a super cheap dollar burger that will be delicious because of the salt and the additives that send the signals to our brains, food is truly a designer drug.

I love being immune to advertising, mocking the commercials that come on, in everyday conversation with people they might bring up something about the newest item at Mcdeadold's or whatever fast food chain they get calorie laden carcasses from, I don't want to come off as thinking I'm better than anyone, I just found a lifestyle that works for me, and believe that society is just not open to the ideas that are clearly proven to be better than what the media presents, or what they ate growing up, they need to rethink and question why they do what they do.

Veganism for me is easy, this new adventure, the raw food diet, I think is a natural progression from standard Veganism.