I was reading one of my raw recipe books and it contained a lot of veggies in vinegar soaks. They used the word 'fermenting' to describe this process but I would imagine there are not the same benefits in using raw vinegar as opposed to a salt brine. I thought the latter produced lactic acid. I am not sure exactly how raw vinegar would benefit the body besides those listed in Braggs' book. And you are not really consuming vinegar--it's the veggies...

It sure would be easier to not have to mess with the salt and just marinate veggies in vinegar!

there is a Japanese/korean restaurant here that i get kim chi from they make it in house its not real vinegary .. i like it its more brine-y ..i wish i could talk them out of the recipe but i think its one of those family recipes that will go to the grave lol

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Jodi, I made a wonderful kimchi from a recipe I got online. It's really just spicy sauerkraut. What I like about the vinegar idea is that you can get soured veggies in a day or so whereas you have to wait 4 or 5 day at least for fermented ones.

marinated veggies are definitely not as beneficial as lactic acid style fermented veggies, but they are healthy and yummy no less. The vinegar only preserves the veggies, and of course makes them softer and more yummy! But yes, I make refrigerator pickles all the time using seasonings, vinegar, water, plus a lil syrup. then i let em soak on the counter over night, then I refrigerate them.they last for a super long time. probiotic ferments create probiotics. But are generally more salty. We have started doing our kraut with no added salt. we just use juiced cabbage as the liquid with some added water. I can feel the salt making me lazy and lethargic at times. I feel wonderful using no added salt!

Thanks Raw Lion! That really resonates! I think the confusion is that the book said that the vinegar was a ferment and so they probably got it wrong. I LOVE the way that brine makes me feel. I don't typically have digestive issues but it feels so great anyway. And you are right--the softening of veggies allows us to eat them RAW!

Hmm, vinegar hinders digestion. I do better with brine ferments personally, I just rinse them off before eating or even soak in fresh water for a bit before hand. Same with salty olives, I really don't like a lot of salt. Or you can ferment stuff by adding in a little ferment juice from a previous batch, leave out on counter overnight. If you are eating dairy you can lacto-ferment by adding in some of the whey that collects in the dips left when spooning some of the yogurt out. This works fast but is not vegan .

With the humidity here, I would always use some salt as a preservative. I would imagine that some in the desert could get away with water curing.

I know there is debate about vinegar but honestly, I have good digestive fires and never experienced a problem with RAW vinegar. I think it agrees with me and is actually quite helpful. After all, raw veggies have enzymes so perhaps that cancels any potential digestive issues out

I use ferments to help manage digestive issues for myself so there's a big difference there. I sure wish I had good digestive fire but for whatever reason, no. I have to take greater than average care with what I eat, even small things can upset my system .

I bet that cabbage doesn't help, either. I know that some people seem to have issues with it. Cruciferous veggies can be hard to break down but perhaps as Raw Lion says, the use of a vinegar or ferment can help with the softening up of all that "roughage," as my 90-something dad calls it.

If you use a probiotic (either powder from a capsule or liquid) as a starter in kraut, you can make salt free sauerkraut. Doing salt free pickles didn't work as well for me, as the salt seems to keep the pickles crunchier.

Good idea, Prana. I haven't thought to do that with kraut. I have some recipe that uses a particular type of leaf to soak with the pickles to keep them crisp. I think there must be tannins in it that are astringent.

You could try adding an oak leaf to the probiotic fermented pickles, that's a traditional ingredient to preserve crunch.

Fermented cabbage & cauliflower don't give me much trouble. Then again, I can generally eat those things anyhow. It's food combining, grains, and a few other things that really get me.

Coco, you knew it!!! I forgot which leaf it was. Yup, that was one of them. I might put some bifidus in there, too. I made pickles with just a salt brine (and sans Perfect Pickler) and they came out SOGGY My bf didn't mind though, LOL

LOL, yes I did know it though I haven't tried them myself. I have had pretty good success with both brine and vinegar pickles. One thing my ole Ukranian papa taught me was to be sure to NEVER use anything but a clean fork to extract pickles from the jar, he said the introduction of other bacteria (on hands or implements, especially from the mouth) will ruin the crunch of any pickle almost right away. People think that the naturally salty or acidic environs of pickle juice will keep them from getting funky from those things but it's not true. Kiss your crunch goodbye if you're sticking fingers into that jar!

Here's an interesting article on using oak leaves
[www.pickl-it.com]

Another on fermenting cukes, looks like he's using english style cucumbers which have never worked out for me but maybe this Persian sort is different.
[www.marksdailyapple.com]

And another listing different sorts of tannin rich leaves that can be used. There are wild grape vines in the yard, those might work. I'd rather make them into dolmades but that's not raw so maybe your grape leaves are safe from being gobbled up for dinner .
[theslowcook.blogspot.ca]

Oh, and soggy pickles are still good sliced into thin rounds. The texture isn't so noticable like that, they're just like little flavour slivers.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2013 07:25PM by coco.

I just bought Persian cukes. I like their shape and supposedly they taste sweeter and lemony.