02:20 min video

[nutritionfacts.org]

article: [nutritionfacts.org]

"The consumption of citrulline allowed for a 68% increase in monthly intercourse frequency. The men were given supplements, but citrulline can be found naturally in watermelon. How much might one have to eat to match the dose they used in the study? Three and a half servings a day, but yellow water melon has about 4 times as much, so just a serving a day—one wedge, one sixteenth of a modest melon should work just as well.

Although watermelon may indeed help treat the symptoms of pelvic atherosclerosis, it’s better to get to the root of the problem and clear out the arterial plaque. Just as Indian gooseberries may help treat diabetes (see Amla Versus Diabetes), it’s better to reverse the disease"

and if you don't know, why do you assume the worst?

oh I get it. Now you tell him how things should be so that your mental diet model does not get damaged. What are your scientific credentials if I may ask, or you just declare yourself The Expert? It seems that you bash Everything that has to do with vegan. Where do you get all this time to police pro vegan post?

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> oh I get it. Now you tell him how things should be
> so that your mental diet model does not get
> damaged. What are your scientific credentials if I
> may ask, or you just declare yourself The Expert?
> It seems that you bash Everything that has to do
> with vegan. Where do you get all this time to
> police pro vegan post?

Haha what a joke Panchito. Ive never claimed to be anything and im certainly no expert. Im beginning to wonder if id do a better job than some of these "gurus" though at this stage.

What does any of this thread have to do with vegansim other than the fact that Dr Greger is a vegan doctor. Are we not aloud to comment on anything these people are saying incase it upsets the emotionally unstable vegans on the forum like yourself ?

What part of this was about justifying my diet either ? I already said id be very pro of his findings considering i also liked watermelon.

I know its hard for you to understand but non-vegans also eat watermelon lol



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/26/2013 07:09PM by powerlifter.

then why attack the credentials of a real doctor, saying that it is not scientifc enough, etc., and then not having any credentials yourself to back you up your negative claims?

this is what you wrote:

powerlifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is where Dr Greger jumps his guns as usual
> and just assumes that watermelon would have the
> same effects that the citrulline supplements did
> in the studies.
>
> I really can't understand why he constantly does
> this in nearly every video he makes. Not only is
> it highly misleading, its very poor interpretation
> of science overall.

That's why I asked you if you had any scientific credentials because you are claiming he is misleading people by not knowing how to read. But since you don't have any credentials now I know who to listen to

It has been my experience that nutrients that are found in whole food in their natural state are much more absorbable that those same nutrients being cooked, subjected to chemical refining treatments, and then thrown into a pill.

Not only does the watermelon offer this citrulline, but it also offers a host of other nutrients, including water, soluble fiber, simple sugars, vitamins, minerals, and other phytonutrients.

powerlifter, what you are saying is that you don't know, which is a fine thing to say, especially if its true.

Now apply that logic to ALL of your isolated nutrient recommendations.
I know, I know, that's different because............................................................................................

This is HARD to believe!

powerlifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Panchito Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > That's why I asked you if you had any
> scientific
> > credentials because you are claiming he is
> > misleading people by not knowing how to read.
> But
> > since you don't have any credentials now I know
> > who to listen to
>
> Hey your free to listen and believe who you want,
> thats the beauty of all of this.
>
> But im also free to express my opinions and just
> because hes a doctor doesn't mean hes correct or
> that i have to agree with him.

and how do you equate having an opinion to being right?

[en.wikipedia.org]

"I'm entitled to my opinion or I have a right to my opinion is a common declaration in rhetoric or debate that can be made at some point in an argument. When asserted for this reason, the statement exemplifies an informal logical fallacy of the type red herring. Whether one has a particular entitlement or right is irrelevant to whether one's assertion is true or false."

powerlifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No one is claiming there an expert or that there
> right, but im entitled to my opinion just as much
> as you are. Stop strawmanning me and keep at least
> one thread on topic and not about me.


you are diverting the conversation from the issue presented to you. You claimed that you did not know but then you make arguments where you present yourself as an authority on nutrition but with not credentials or nothing. When confronted, you call that an strawman argument. You attacked the credentials of Dr Gregger by saying he is misleading people, upon which I started with questions to you which only ended in diversions.

> The whole raw food movement is built on assumption
> and guesswork, its about time we started
> emphasizing evidence based alternative health.

Why do you introduce distracting topics. What does that have anything to with the video?

> Answer my question do you think from the study
> data Dr Greger provided that he was accurately
> representing the science or jumping to the
> assumption that watermelon would also provide the
> same benefits that the supplements were shown to,
> simply based on the fact that watermelon contains
> citrulline ?
>

You should start looking at your own website before critizing other people for not being super scientific.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2014 12:12AM by Prana.

The issue is that none of this was meant to be about me or my qualifications, which ive never claimed to have any health related, nor have i ever claimed to be any sort of expert.

I am aloud to have my own view, just like you are on the forum. The issue here is that you are simply incapable of hearing anything contradictory(unless its pro vegan of course) and as usual we have another thread reduced to this pointless bickering.

John Kohler isn't going to have a forum left if a few of you fanatics are going to have your way. Driving all our long term members away with this sort of crap.

Answer my question that you have casually evaded twice now, are you in agreement that hes mis-representing the study data here or not ?

Stay on topic or shut up(im sorry but someone needs to say it).



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2013 02:18PM by powerlifter.

<<<The whole raw food movement is built on assumption and guesswork, its about time we started emphasizing evidence based alternative health.>>>

Tell me Chris, what did we do before we discovered FIRE?

How far along our Evolutionary Path had we gone when we finally discovered FIRE?

How long did it take after we discovered FIRE before we started COOKING our Food consistently with it?

If we put the Human Existence on a Football Field, we discovered FIRE around the 87 Yard Line or ~13 Yards away from where we are today. And then, we went another 12 Yards or so down to the 1 Yard Line before we started to COOK our Food consistently with it. That means that for 99% of our existence we Ate our FOOD RAW just like all of the other Animals on this Planet and when we started COOKING our Food with FIRE, that was the Fall of Mankind and that’s when we LOST our Golden Age and created FOOLS like you who REFUSE to come out of Plato’s Cave.

powerlifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> John Kohler isn't going to have a forum left if a
> few of you fanatics are going to have your way.
> Driving all our long term members away with this
> sort of crap.


it is very simple. If you said you don't know, how can you say Dr Gregger is misleading? You are a victim of own contradistions. don't make others a victim.

> Answer my question that you have casually evaded
> twice now, are you in agreement that hes
> mis-representing the study data here or not ?
>
> Stay on topic or shut up(im sorry but someone
> needs to say it).

ho. so you want to take control of the converstaion. Please, deal first with your contradictory statements. They have chronological precedence

Still avoided answering my question i see.

I really don't understand why every thread needs to be reduced to this with you Panchito.

Discuss the topic or give it up if your just looking to fight all day, because im bored of this.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2013 02:34PM by powerlifter.

after what you FIRST wrote (notice the chronolical order of the conversation), don't you back up what you write? Or when confronted you create new diversions? I mean, do you follow logical thinkning? If not, why bother with science?

If cannot think straight, whats the point of the conversation?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2013 02:54PM by Panchito.

Watermelon as Treatment for Erectile Dysfunction? Hmmm? I can picture a warning labels on melons everywhere:

Over consumption of this melon may cause undo lengthy erections. Consumers with this problem are recommended to seek professional sexual help, err, ahhhh we a mean medical advice.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2013 04:14PM by Appledate Sandwich.

I certainly wouldn't like to be under the care of any physician who just assumes my treatment is going to be beneficial through assumption and guessing.

So mr powerlifter, oral citrulline supplements proved to beneficial for your condition, so im going to prescribe you 4 wedges of watermelon a day instead.

Can you tell me why ?, ohh yes watermelon also contains citrulline so that means its going to have exactly the same benefits as the oral citrulline supplements showed in studies lol.

I wouldn't even need to point this out had it been the other way around, if it had been the watermelon that showed the benefits, yet i was recommending oral synthetic citrulline supplements to provide the same benefits then you can guess what the response would have been on here.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2013 06:55PM by powerlifter.

I agree with powerlifter on this one. It would be great to see a similar study based on watermelon consumption, without supplements.

How about a tv commercial by the watermelon growers association? "Ask your doctor about red watermelon for daily use, and yellow watermelon for "just the right time".

Dr. Greger was very explicit when we said, “but one Plant in particular MAY be able to play a stopgap role in the meantime” and when he questioned “how much Watermelon would you have to eat every day to match the dose they used in the Study,” he said, “three and a half servings a day, unless you eat Yellow Watermelon, which has about 4 times as much Citrulline, so one serving a day, one wedge, 1/16th of a modest Melon SHOULD provide the dose they use.”

Did Dr. Greger say that the results were the same? Not exactly! Dr. Greger said that Watermelon MAY be able to play a stopgap role in the meantime and that a certain amount of Watermelon SHOULD provide the dose they use and if the Watermelon does work, your Heart SHOULD be able to handle the increase in intercourse frequency given how much lower your Blood Pressure will be with Watermelon Supplementation and this is when he showed the Study about how Watermelon Supplementation lowers your Blood Pressure.

The KEY words here are “MAY be able to play a stopgap role,” “SHOULD provide the dose they use” and “your Heart SHOULD be able to handle given how much lower your Blood Pressure will be with Watermelon Supplementation”!!!

In all honesty, what got Dr. Greger in trouble is when he said “SHOULD provide the dose they use allowing for a 68% increase in monthly intercourse frequency” and he should have said, “SHOULD provide the dose they use that allowed a 68% increase in monthly intercourse frequency”! By saying “allowed” instead of “allowing” it is obvious that “the dose they used” is what resulted in a “68% increase in monthly intercourse frequency,” but when he used “allowing” instead of “allowed,” it sounds like the Watermelon also results in a “68% increase in monthly intercourse frequency.”

So did Dr. Greger make a Mistake in Semantics or in his Interpretation?

Since he said, “MAY be able to play a stopgap role” in the very beginning and then he said, “SHOULD provide the dose they use” and “your Heart SHOULD be able to handle given how much lower your Blood Pressure will be with Watermelon Supplementation,” I’m thinking that it was more of an Error in Semantics than an Error in his Interpretation. Once again, had he used “allowed” instead of “allowing” it would have been obvious that “the dose they used” is what resulted in a “68% increase in monthly intercourse frequency” and that the Watermelon “MAY be able to play a stopgap role”!

By the way, allowed is NOT spelled aloud, you are is abbreviated as you’re and NOT as your and there is a difference between there and their and since you misspell these words so often Chris, I thought you might want to know. Please feel free to correct any of my spelling or any of my grammatical errors (keeping in mind that I CAPITALIZE a lot of words for emphasis) and I promise that I will not be offended.

Peace and Love..........John

Actually i was just going to post on this. He seems to be able to interpret what the amla/diabetes studies meant i.e "may help treat diabetes".

However the quote that panchito provided which i assume was from Dr Greger -

"The consumption of citrulline allowed for a 68% increase in monthly intercourse frequency. The men were given SUPPLEMENTS, but citrulline can be found naturally in watermelon."

This is where his level of assumption comes in that watermelon would provide the same benefits as the citrulline supplements did. He then goes on to prescribe the amount of watermelon needed to get similar amounts, which again is noble but not entirely truthful because we don't know if the same amount of citrulline from watermelon provides the benefit the supplements did.

My english is not great especially when im typing as fast as i do, im not pedantic enough to correct anyones grammatical or spelling errors else id be here all day with Panchitos posts and my own lol.

Also the title of his video is watermelon as treatment for erectile dysfunction, not MAY TREAT.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2013 08:31PM by powerlifter.

So Dr. Greger was a little vague in the Video, but in the article, he left NO DOUBT by saying,

“The consumption of citrulline allowed for a 68% increase in monthly intercourse frequency. The men were given supplements, but citrulline can be found naturally in watermelon. How much might one have to eat to match the dose they used in the study? Three and a half servings a day, but yellow water melon has about 4 times as much, so just a serving a day—one wedge, one sixteenth of a modest melon SHOULD work just as well. Although watermelon MAY indeed help treat the symptoms of pelvic atherosclerosis, it’s better to get to the root of the problem and clear out the arterial plaque.”

Once again, he NEVER said it WOULD - he just said it SHOULD work just as well and that it MAY indeed help treat the symptoms!!!

Peace and Love..........John

Should and may isn't good enough im afraid when you are giving the impression that it will work just the same.

Its assumption at best, jeez how hard is this. This is the whole point of science in the first place, to take away the elements of SHOULD and MAY WORK THE SAME from the equation.

How hard is it to add the word MAY to the title of his video and a few places in his article. He purposely does that for a reason and its misleading for those who suffer from these health conditions.

Also his referencing to watermelon possibly helping to treat the symptoms of pelvic atherosclerosis, isn't what i have issue with here, i agree on that. I already stated that by saying there was study data to suggest possible cardiovascular benefits with watermelon.

Thats a still a mile away from suggesting watermelon can treat erectile dysfunction however.



Edited 12 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2013 09:11PM by powerlifter.

Same story over and over again. you have to spell everything to Powerlifer to the T or he will make all types of attemps to discredit anything vegan hoping the reader is lazy to read. Example:

[www.rawfoodsupport.com]

Once again watermelon is a food consumed by everyone, not just dogmatic indivduals like yourself Panchito.

<<<Also his referencing to watermelon possibly helping to treat the symptoms of pelvic atherosclerosis, isn't what i have issue with here, i agree on that.>>>

Chris,

Erectile Dysfunction is one of the symptoms of Pelvic Atherosclerosis!!! In fact, Atherosclerosis Causes roughly 40% of Erectile Dysfunction in men older than 50 years!!!

So you don’t have an issue with Watermelon treating the symptoms of Pelvic Atherosclerosis, which is the leading Cause of Erectile Dysfunction, but you have an issue with Watermelon as a Treatment for Erectile Dysfunction. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Peace and Love..........John

Yes, i already discussed citrulline/arginine and the possible benefits that watermelon may have in relation to cardiovascular health.

Again that is miles away from any study or science PROVING that watermelon is effective for treating erectile dysfunction, which using the study data that Dr Greger was providing, doesn't suggest or prove that at all.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2013 11:56PM by powerlifter.

Let’s take a look at what we know.

Watermelon aka Citrullus Lanatus is a Source of Citrulline.

Oral L-Citrulline Supplementation Improves Erection Hardness in Men With Mild Erectile Dysfunction.

Watermelon has been Proven to Lower Blood Pressure and is an Effective Treatment for Pelvic Atherosclerosis.

Pelvic Atherosclerosis Causes roughly 40% of Erectile Dysfunction in men older than 50 years!!!

Now let’s take a look at what Dr. Greger has to say.

“Although Watermelon MAY indeed help treat the symptoms of Pelvic Atherosclerosis, it’s better to get to the root of the problem and clear out the Arterial Plaque.”

“Obviously, if the Arterial System is that damaged, a more intensive effort that involves much more than popping a pill can yield longer-term improvements in both Sexual Function and Cardiovascular Health. Plant Based Diets can not only reverse both Conditions, but one Plant in particular [Watermelon] MAY be able to play a stopgap role in the meantime.”

Now let’s put all of this together.

If Watermelon is an Effective Treatment for Pelvic Atherosclerosis and Pelvic Atherosclerosis is the leading Cause of Erectile Dysfunction and Oral L-Citrulline Supplementation is an Effective Treatment for Erectile Dysfunction and Watermelon is a Source of Citrulline, then there’s a really good chance that Watermelon MAY also be an Effective Treatment for Erectile Dysfunction.

So Chris, the Studies that Prove that Watermelon is an Effective Treatment for Pelvic Atherosclerosis, which is the leading Cause of Erectile Dysfunction, and that Oral L-Citrulline Supplementation is an Effective Treatment for Erectile Dysfunction are NOT miles away because Watermelon Lowers Blood Pressure and is a Source of Citrulline.

Once again, Dr. Greger NEVER said that Watermelon WOULD work just as well - he just said that Watermelon SHOULD work just as well and that Watermelon MAY indeed help treat the symptoms!!!

Peace and Love..........John

I agree with Prana.