1:47 min vid

[nutritionfacts.org]

Very misleading title you've put there, Panchito.

And the goofy study compared olive oil to whole walnuts and almonds.

did you actually see the video? I thought it was quite small (1:45 mins)

Quote (available under the transcript tab):

"Whole food sources of fats, like everything else, tend to be preferable. One can think of extra virgin olive oil like fruit juice—it’s got nutrients, but the calories you get are relatively empty compared to the whole fruit. Olives are, after all, fruits. You fresh squeeze them and you get olive juice, less nutrition than the whole fruit, but then it gets even worse, they throw away what’s called the olive wastewater, which contains all of the water soluble nutrients in olives so you’re really just getting a small fraction of the nutrition of the whole fruit. So why not just eat the olives? Well the problem is that they’re soaked in brine such that a dozen olives could take up half your sodium intake for the day, so I suggest eating them only in moderation."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2014 12:56AM by Panchito.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Very misleading title you've put there, Panchito.
>
> And the goofy study compared olive oil to
> whole walnuts and almonds.


Fats from whole food sources are much better than oils (even organic, cold-pressed). Oils are stripped of fiber, protein, carbohydrates and provide much less nutrition than their whole food counterparts. Also, oils are very susceptible to rancidity, partly because fiber is what protects against this in whole food sources. Too much fat in the diet reduces the body's ability to uptake, transport, and deliver oxygen to cells. Besides, I don't think eating vast amounts of fats is in accordance with our natural diet.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2014 12:58AM by jtprindl.

no other animal except humans eat oil because it first needs extraction and processing. It is concentrated and not natural. It is like comparing High Fructose Corn Syrup to fruit.

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> did you actually see the video? I thought it was
> quite small (1:45 mins)
>
> Quote:
>
> "wholefoods sources of fats tend to be preferable.
> One can think of extra virging olive oil like
> fruit juice. It's got nutrients but the calories
> you get are relatively empty compared with the
> whole fruit. Olives are afterall fruits. You
> squish them and you get olive juice less
> nutritious than the whole fruit. But then it gets
> even worse. They throw away whats call the 'olive
> waste water,' which contains all the water soluble
> nutrients..."

Show me a study that compares stone ground living walnut oil to walnuts and/or stone ground living almond oil to almonds which would be something I could take seriously if done properly.


Yes I watched the video. That's how I knew it was a goofy study which the video Dr. found convenient to shoehorned into his beliefs about olive oil and salt. I like a lot of his videos but this one was a cheesy stretch - apples and oranges. IMO.

oils are simply not wholefoods

[www.amazon.com]

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Panchito Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > did you actually see the video? I thought it
> was
> > quite small (1:45 mins)
> >
> > Quote:
> >
> > "wholefoods sources of fats tend to be
> preferable.
> > One can think of extra virging olive oil like
> > fruit juice. It's got nutrients but the
> calories
> > you get are relatively empty compared with the
> > whole fruit. Olives are afterall fruits. You
> > squish them and you get olive juice less
> > nutritious than the whole fruit. But then it
> gets
> > even worse. They throw away whats call the
> 'olive
> > waste water,' which contains all the water
> soluble
> > nutrients..."
>
> Show me a study that compares stone ground
> living walnut oil to walnuts and/or stone ground
> living almond oil to almonds which would be
> something I could take seriously if done
> properly.
>
>
> Yes I watched the video. That's how I knew it
> was a goofy study which the video Dr. found
> convenient to shoehorned into his beliefs about
> olive oil and salt. I like a lot of his videos but
> this one was a cheesy stretch - apples and
> oranges. IMO.


How would oils such as walnut oil be healthier than fresh, sprouted walnuts? Furthermore, how can you ask for a study when your entire reasoning for following a high-fat diet in the first place isn't based on anything proven by a study?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2014 01:27AM by jtprindl.

[www.sciencedaily.com]

[en.wikipedia.org]

[eatlikeaswede.wordpress.com]

[www.marksdailyapple.com]

Also, according to "Enzyme Nutrition" by Dr. Edward Howell, Bulgarians in the past who lived on a diet high in raw dairy lived to 90-100. However, I don't believe 90 or 100 is anywhere near what our full potential is. I think that with systematic under eating/high nutrient diet rich in living foods, living in a pristine environment, sunlight, physical activity, and practices like meditation, sun gazing, and colon cleansing... we can reach 150 easily. It's already been done. Maybe not according to "official U.S. documents"... but that's irrelevant.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2014 02:08AM by jtprindl.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [www.sciencedaily.com]
> 2084430.htm
>
> [en.wikipedia.org]
> ted_to_low-carbohydrate_diets
>
> [eatlikeaswede.wordpress.com]
> gh-fat-low-carb-diet-explosion-happening-in-sweden
> /
>
> [www.marksdailyapple.com]
> hy-safe/#axzz2qi512slI


"The mice on the scheduled high-fat diet had a lower final body weight than the mice eating an unscheduled high-fat diet. But surprisingly, the mice on the scheduled high-fat diet also had a lower final body weight than the mice that ate an unscheduled low-fat diet, even though both groups consumed the same amount of calories."

The real experiment would be a scheduled high-fat diet versus a scheduled low-fat diet. I'm sure there are a lot of unhealthy variables involved with an "unscheduled" low fat diet. Kind of like how you can be "vegan" but still snack endlessly on vegetarian fast food, doritos, soda, cookies, etc.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2014 02:18AM by jtprindl.

I don't agree with the high fat thing but some interesting links anyway.
just trying to help suez out a little bit,
and certainly your points are valid, jtprindl

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SueZ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Very misleading title you've put there,
> Panchito.
> >
> > And the goofy study compared olive oil to
> > whole walnuts and almonds.
>
>
> Fats from whole food sources are much better than
> oils (even organic, cold-pressed). Oils are
> stripped of fiber, protein, carbohydrates and
> provide much less nutrition than their whole food
> counterparts. Also, oils are very susceptible to
> rancidity, partly because fiber is what protects
> against this in whole food sources. Too much fat
> in the diet reduces the body's ability to uptake,
> transport, and deliver oxygen to cells. Besides, I
> don't think eating vast amounts of fats is in
> accordance with our natural diet.

Fact is stone ground living oils have not been studied adequately yet. If you are going to make them a major part of your diet you have to invest in top quality oils and have them shipped cold and store them cold. The only problem I have had with rancidity was with flax oil. I have scratched flax oil off my diet and replaced it with chia seed oil. I also don't trust hemp products and won't use them until they are sold live with their hulls on and are not irradiated.

Rather than rely on belief systems that sound good I like to test things for myself. Sure a high fat diet sounds counter intuitive but there are subtleties which experience has taught me about the differences between living oils and all other oils - which are the oils that end up being used in these studies that are easily and cheaply shoehorned by people with strong personal beliefs about diet into their arguments to prove they are right. It's all very selective and I can see through it.

I incorporate both whole fatty foods and the oils of fatty foods in my diet and see from experience they both are good and that it doesn't have to be a rigid either/or thing.

If you are going to maintain a raw vegan lifestyle you have to get most of your calories from either carbs or fats. High carbs wrecked me so if I am going to be raw vegan then high fat it has to be for me. I'm glad that it's working. And so is the high salt.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't agree with the high fat thing but some
> interesting links anyway.
> just trying to help suez out a little bit,
> and certainly your points are valid, jtprindl


Thanks, fresh, I will read these links latter. I really don't want to argue with people tonight especially because I had to bring my almost nineteen year old dog to vet to be killed this afternoon and I need mourning time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2014 02:33AM by SueZ.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jtprindl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SueZ Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Very misleading title you've put there,
> > Panchito.
> > >
> > > And the goofy study compared olive oil to
> > > whole walnuts and almonds.
> >
> >
> > Fats from whole food sources are much better
> than
> > oils (even organic, cold-pressed). Oils are
> > stripped of fiber, protein, carbohydrates and
> > provide much less nutrition than their whole
> food
> > counterparts. Also, oils are very susceptible
> to
> > rancidity, partly because fiber is what
> protects
> > against this in whole food sources. Too much
> fat
> > in the diet reduces the body's ability to
> uptake,
> > transport, and deliver oxygen to cells. Besides,
> I
> > don't think eating vast amounts of fats is in
> > accordance with our natural diet.
>
> Fact is stone ground living oils have not
> been studied adequately yet. If you are going to
> make them a major part of your diet you have to
> invest in top quality oils and have them shipped
> cold and store them cold. The only problem I have
> had with rancidity was with flax oil. I have
> scratched flax oil off my diet and replaced it
> with chia seed oil. I also don't trust hemp
> products and won't use them until they are sold
> live with their hulls on and are not irradiated.
>
> Rather than rely on belief systems that
> sound good I like to test things for myself. Sure
> a high fat diet sounds counter intuitive but there
> are subtleties which experience has taught me
> about the differences between living oils and all
> other oils - which are the oils that end up being
> used in these studies that are easily and cheaply
> shoehorned by people with strong personal beliefs
> about diet into their arguments to prove they are
> right. It's all very selective and I can see
> through it.
>
> I incorporate both whole fatty foods and the
> oils of fatty foods in my diet and see from
> experience they both are good and that it doesn't
> have to be a rigid either/or thing.
>
> If you are going to maintain a raw vegan
> lifestyle you have to get most of your calories
> from either carbs or fats. High carbs wrecked me
> so if I am going to be raw vegan then high fat it
> has to be for me. I'm glad that it's working. And
> so is the high salt.


I don't understand, how can high carbs "wreck" YOU but there are thousands of people thriving on a low-fat raw vegan diet? We all have virtually the same nutritional needs. Now these nutritional needs can vary slightly based on lifestyle factors and genetics, but I don't see why one person can thrive on a diet and another cannot... unless there were previous health issues that were preventing them from reaping all the benefits of their new diet? Maybe I'm just ignorant but it seems this question never gets answered.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2014 02:41AM by jtprindl.

>
> I don't understand, how can high carbs "wreck" YOU
> but there are thousands of people thriving on a
> low-fat raw vegan diet?

I am truly sorry that you can't understand this.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fact is stone ground living oils have not
> been studied adequately yet. If you are going to
> make them a major part of your diet you have to
> invest in top quality oils and have them shipped
> cold and store them cold.

[en.wikipedia.org]

- dietary errors - food choices, overeating, undereating, etc
- cleansing symptoms are blamed on new diet instead of old diet
- addictions/salt cravings
- food quality problems
- failure to take care of b12
- failure to rest
- diet harder on teeth

just some thoughts

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> - dietary errors - food choices, overeating,
> undereating, etc
> - cleansing symptoms are blamed on new diet
> instead of old diet
> - addictions/salt cravings
> - food quality problems
> - failure to take care of b12
> - failure to rest
> - diet harder on teeth
>
> just some thoughts


The only logical conclusion is that the person who is "failing" on a low-fat raw vegan diet simply isn't following it the "correct" way. Correct as in ensuring they are getting the variety of foods/liquids they need in order to avoid nutritional deficiencies.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2014 02:59AM by jtprindl.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > I don't understand, how can high carbs "wreck"
> YOU
> > but there are thousands of people thriving on a
> > low-fat raw vegan diet?
>
> I am truly sorry that you can't understand
> this.


Well then, please explain how it's possible other than one person not being educated on how to sustain themselves on the diet?

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SueZ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >
> > > I don't understand, how can high carbs
> "wreck"
> > YOU
> > > but there are thousands of people thriving on
> a
> > > low-fat raw vegan diet?
> >
> > I am truly sorry that you can't understand
> > this.
>
>
> Well then, please explain how it's possible other
> than one person not being educated on how to
> sustain themselves on the diet?

No, I will not. You can read through my old posts if you are interested.

Are you sure you want to talk down to people like so many old school MD.s do when they hear something that doesn't 'fit' with their training? That's what you are sounding like and you are still wet behind your ears with nothing but book learning puffing you up.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jtprindl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SueZ Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > >
> > > > I don't understand, how can high carbs
> > "wreck"
> > > YOU
> > > > but there are thousands of people thriving
> on
> > a
> > > > low-fat raw vegan diet?
> > >
> > > I am truly sorry that you can't understand
> > > this.
> >
> >
> > Well then, please explain how it's possible
> other
> > than one person not being educated on how to
> > sustain themselves on the diet?
>
> No, I will not. You can read through my old
> posts if you are interested.
>
> Are you sure you want to talk down to
> people like so many old school MD.s do when they
> hear something that doesn't 'fit' with their
> training? That's what you are sounding like and
> you are still wet behind your ears with nothing
> but book learning puffing you up.


I didn't talk down at all, I asked a question. What makes you so different from the people who are thriving on a low-fat raw vegan diet to the point where you suffer and they are successful?

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What makes you so different from the people who
> are thriving on a low-fat raw vegan diet to the
> point where you suffer and they are successful?

some people can have differences with the meatbolism of fructose. A high carb diet is not the same as a high fruit diet.

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jtprindl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What makes you so different from the people who
> > are thriving on a low-fat raw vegan diet to the
> > point where you suffer and they are successful?
>
> some people can have differences with the
> meatbolism of fructose. A high carb diet is not
> the same as a high fruit diet.


Right, but that doesn't mean they can't follow a low-fat diet.

Suez is right off track with the oil thing because it leads to a lack of nutritional synergy in the diet. I could post peer reviewed study after study on this and the diseases she will be at risk of if she continues this thinking. If she continues to follow the Bradley diet she is going to be in a lot of health trouble down the track. I suggest she read the literiture and find out how to construct a balanced diet.

Adding oils into the diet is a disaster. Read the literiture to find out why. A teaspoon occasionally is not going to hurt, but if you push it too much you will end up like many diseased vegans in the literiture....prone to dementia and various other things. The Bradley diet goes against many things the peer reviewed science literiture talks about and recommends for vegans, and the absurdity of adding oil certainly goes against everything the world famous Hippocrates Heatlh Institute recoomend too.

I've done my work here and l will not be reading this forum again so l am not tempted to post.

Reagrds and goodbye: The Sproutarian.

www.thesproutarian.com



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2014 06:47AM by The Sproutarian Man.

jtprindl


<<Also, according to "Enzyme Nutrition" by Dr. Edward Howell, Bulgarians in the past who lived on a diet high in raw dairy lived to 90-100. However, I don't believe 90 or 100 is anywhere near what our full potential is. I think that with systematic under eating/high nutrient diet rich in living foods, living in a pristine environment, sunlight, physical activity, and practices like meditation, sun gazing, and colon cleansing... we can reach 150 easily. It's already been done. Maybe not according to "official U.S. documents"... but that's irrelevant.>>

"we can reach 150 easily"

dang only 150?

ripoff

i plan to live waaaaaay longer!

compared to how long the Universe has been in existence
150 years just seems like the time it takes a super ginormous giant to close its eyes and then open them again

jtprindl

<<I didn't talk down at all, I asked a question. What makes you so different from the people who are thriving on a low-fat raw vegan diet to the point where you suffer and they are successful?>>


it is apparent to me that you just answered your own question
you said " what makes you so DIFFERENT"?
that's the answer
people ARE different
what makes a person so different than another person?
the list is infinite

la_veronique Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jtprindl
>
>
> <>
>
> "we can reach 150 easily"
>
> dang only 150?
>
> ripoff
>
> i plan to live waaaaaay longer!
>
> compared to how long the Universe has been in
> existence
> 150 years just seems like the time it takes a
> super ginormous giant to close its eyes and then
> open them again


I agree, I think 150 is still young compared to what our optimal potential is but it will take tremendous practice all areas of life (diet, stress management, cleansing, spirituality, etc).

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1:47 min vid
>
> [nutritionfacts.org]
> -oil-vs-nuts/

Natural hygienically speaking oil is not a food. Nuts and seeds are.

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Panchito Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 1:47 min vid
> >
> >
> [nutritionfacts.org]
>
> > -oil-vs-nuts/
>
> Natural hygienically speaking oil is not a food.
> Nuts and seeds are.

As long as it's realized that that is just an opinion it's a harmless thought.