Oh my god, is powerlifter still here?

is he addicted to cooked food or the rawfoodsupport forum?
or both?

brilliant comments by prindl, jr, utopian

PL, why don't you just take a break and come back when you are not wanting to sabotage the goals of this site. I would like to see you come back but you have to be considerate of the goals of this site. Just because you are not ready for the transformation doesn't mean others are not. There are people far smarter than you who are successful on a vegan diet and I am not talking about the 80/10/10's or anything other fad diets. You can warn people of the dangers of attempting this diet but you cannot tell them this diet will not work, because that is not fact. Again why don't you follow B.C. for a while and see if you can gain some more important knowledge that might change your view on things. Again, I do not take pleasure in killing animals, do you?

Very well said Superjuice!!!

The American Dietetic Association would disagree with Powerlifter's "insights" about veganism being almost impossible and not healthy long-term.

So what are you going to do, Temp, view the website from being logged out? It appears you can't quit us vegans. lol

This guy is not on vacation.

Lol. I made a statement about the ADA . That wasnt a.question.

Powerlifter is compelled to respond under penalty of death.

"What do you want me to do"

dont respond?

get a hobby dude.

"Prana, why has this account still not been banned. Please perma ban as requested, unless you want to reinstate me for whatever reason, which i highly doubt. Although couldn't have come at a more inconvenient time."

YOU CAN JUST STOP POSTING.
IT HAS SAME RESULT AS BANNING.

But Prana has not banned me.
To me veganism is a goal that I will reach one day.
I am not bashing vegans.

It is true you want to help.
But most do not want to be helped.
They are fine with their vegan diet even if it has some issues.
The SAD diet has even more issues.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2014 06:44PM by RawPracticalist.

[www.rawfoodsupport.com] (last post on the page)

You're not a troll or anti-vegan or trying to convince anyone of anything, yet in a thread about John Rose being a Shill, Powerlifer posts, "The only truth is that these raw vegan diets will fail you in the long term, that is the inevitable truth at the end of the day." Sounds delusional to me considering how many of us are still here.

He's watered down his statements for his gripes in this thread in an attempt to make himself look good, but we all have the ability to scroll through his posts.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2014 12:28AM by Utopian Life.

Now where's the Sardine forum? I want to go on there and make anti-sardine eaters comments every day. lmao

Powerlifter, where did Prana send you? Floriduh is lovely this time of year. Nice of him to foot the bill...

?....lets face it the majority on here aren't even strict vegans, they might aspire and dream to be, but they never will be successful vegans or they would be doing it now, if the diet were that great and easy to follow


False bitter statement.

powerlifter still missing the point.

There are plenty of people on the forum i disagree w .....especially the name callers amd trollers, of which i include you. Have you looked at your posts lately? 80 percent for you is great. I never said i had a problem w that. Youre creating.things that dont exist or mistaking me for someone else. It doesnt phase me that swayzee. Chris. Freelee etc eat cooked food. I am a leader not a follower and happy for them if they are happy.

You do not support raw vegan, which this is.

your comments are irrelevant about what people do.

Since some people who dont make it to the top of mt everest that means we should blame mt everest? Thats what u would do. You would troll the everest discussion group with your negativity and false warnings instead of finding a way to make it happen.



Nobody has ever made it to the top of everest u would say. I didnt make it, therefore u couldnt have made it. You treat people like children with your patronizing negativity and distorted views.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2014 01:56PM by fresh.

Your advocacy of nonvegan items is why you are banned. Period. You are making up other reasons and using this thread to vent the concerns that plague you. Im sure a therapist will be happy to listen but theyll charge you. Youre also attributing quotes to people that dont exist.

<<<Since some people who dont make it to the top of mt everest that means we should blame mt everest? Thats what u would do. You would troll the everest discussion group with your negativity and false warnings instead of finding a way to make it happen.>>>

<<<Nobody has ever made it to the top of everest u would say. I didnt make it, therefore u couldnt have made it. You treat people like children with your patronizing negativity and distorted views.>>>

"There is no sense in having an argument with a man so stupid he doesn't know you have the better of him." -John Raper

"On second thought, the surest sign that you haven't any sense is to argue with one who hasn't." -Laurence J. Peter

I support Powerlifter! Although he often offers a contrary message, I find that many of the die-hard raw fooders do as well. For instance, telling me that it's "better" to use salt brine rather than raw vinegar, as if we have to chose one over the other. Everything is always being shot down. Don't eat foods with oxalic acid, don't eat too many cruciferous veggies due to thyroid issues, etc. So banning PL will not get rid of the problem of being contrary in general and therefore not supportive.

I haven't seen John Kohler post on here once, let alone recommend eating animal products. It's one thing to eat them; it's another to recommend them on a vegan forum against the rules.

You had recourse if it truly happened that John Rose recommended eggs on the vegan section - you should have reported it. Whether it happened once or 10 times, you were supposed to report it.

"Admitting" to drinking goat's milk is not equal to advocating it on a vegan forum and suggesting it to people. I'm not sure why you use the word "admit" there - seems you're the one with issues with people being non-vegan. I would have just used the phrase that he "drinks goat's milk"

temp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For a start Bee products such as bee pollen, honey
> etc have been discussed on here for years, if we
> want to get into the pedantics of recommending
> strict non-vegan foods.
>
> Why should i have reported Johns post for saying
> that some people may need eggs to replace these
> nutrients. That was probably the one time i
> actually agree with him.

>

----------
LOL so you're glad when people violate the rules, eh? Make your own forum with your own rules and/or get a therapist.

Discussing doesn't equal recommending. lol



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2014 11:54PM by Prana.

*waves* See ya!

temp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> How many long term raw vegans are still here then
> ?, what all 2 of you

I understand that the average vegan only stays that way for about 7 years before going back to meat. The vegan diet is hard to nutritionally make work for most people and the difficultly in doing such a diet (especially raw) should never be underestimated.




> FRUIT, FRUIT you just need to binge on banana/date
> smoothies all day powerlifer, these are not real
> foods for you to be eating lol.

Very true. I agree with Dr Clement's summery of these foods..."moderate baloney". They might be o.k for the occasional snack, but certainly not as a staple.

Even blending is highly questionable behaviour, but certainly good for people starting out who have the SAD mentality. Evenstill, l have a nasty habit of blending foods due to the convenience factor...l really need to move beyond that level and do raw properly.



>
> Even Dr Lawrence Wilson noticed the anger from
> high fruit eaters,


I remember when l first checked out raw fooders on the internet about 5 years ago. I was shocked with what l saw. I was expecting two different groups - 100% fruitarians or sproutarians. I thought everyone were going to be these guru types and be peace loving and gentle. But....

soon after joining a raw forum, checking out a various N.H forum and quietly following the N.H community out of interest (wanted to observe the behaviour of `peace loving' fruit eaters),l quickly discovered something which became very obvious after 6 months. That was the anger, defensiveness and attacks from the folks who had diets high in fruit. I could never understand why it was usually that group until recently. Then l read Dr Wilson's article on fruit diets, and the symptoms in the article mentioned exactly the same behaviours that l have been witnessing over my online years. I was glad it wasn't just me noticing this, and it made me realise the problem went much deeper than l originally thought.

Yes, definitely...the raw vegan diet is not a walk in the park. Many report negative symptoms with such diets, and high fruit eaters seem to report more negative symptoms than most raw vegans from my observations.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2014 07:32PM by The Sproutarian Man.

temp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What bothers me is there false promotion of
> diets that they no longer follow, misleading the
> next wave of newbies who believe the diets are the
> holy grail.


Very good point. We need to be realistic. A raw vegan diet is no walk in the park.

>
> Many of the people that utopian mentioned still
> have videos up recommending to go all raw or
> selling books how to be all raw lol. Frederic
> Patenaude denounced that the raw vegan food diet
> was dead about half a year
> ago(http://renegadehealth.com/blog/deathofraw),
> yet still has his raw vegan mentor club where i
> can join and books for sale. Im not comprehending
> this logically ?



Yes, those books and videos for sale need revisions saying the following:

" I thought l had all the answers for being a successful raw vegan, but l now realise I don't because l failed to thrive doing the diet l recommended. Read what l say in this book this great caution because l don't have all the answers like l previously thought, but l still suggest you go high raw, but if you want to stay 100% raw you might want to look to other people who have much better diet knowledge than l do".

Why don't people come out and just say that? There is no shame in being wrong and failing. It's being responsible that really counts here. People's character would be in good standing if they come out and said that. If l fail l am going to come out and say that, because it is the right thing to do. It shouldn't be about maintaining their diet nonsense to maintain their income, because if you are no good at something (unsuccessful) you should find another job or do coaching in high raw diets instead of selling a 100% raw lifestyle that didn't work for you.


>


>
> Everyone is different, but our common goal should
> have been trying to get people to include more
> living plant foods in their diet, which is an
> obtainable goal. Many great healing foods that
> people have never even heard of before, let alone
> tried.


Yes, a minimum of high raw, and 100% if you can manage it.


> In the end we have about 10 regular members on
> here, half who are not even vegetarian let alone
> vegan or raw. Lets be realistic here, i have been
> here for 4+ years as a member and a lurker for
> much longer. Ive seen those veteran members of my
> generation on the forum admit that they got ill,
> the kwans, the dr gosias, the rest of them who
> left by privately admitting they couldn't make the
> diet work and didn't feel they fit in anymore as a
> result because they weren't all raw or vegan.


Yes, we need to be careful. Too many raw gurus are dreamers and fail, but they fail to make additions in books/videos when they get it wrong. If we are leaders we need to be responsible and take a step down if we fail.

The higher you climb in the raw food world, the bigger you can fall. If you are going to fall, suck it up and take the fall and re-invent yourself.

I didn't start my site for all the bright lights. I realised l have lots of responsibility, and if l fail l must suffer the public fall and back down and make alterations to my original messages.

Low level world = worshipping money gods, enjoying fame, ego. We can do much better than that. It's very easy to enjoy the low level living, but much harder to take the higher path.

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Even blending is highly questionable behaviour,
> but certainly good for people starting out who
> have the SAD mentality. Evenstill, l have a nasty
> habit of blending foods due to the convenience
> factor...l really need to move beyond that level
> and do raw properly.

When I first started out on a raw diet I read enough to question whether blending oxidized the veggies too much to be worthwhile. Instead of taking those warnings at face value I ran experiments to test this out for myself with green smoothies and soups, which is what I was using a blender for.

No extra special equipment was needed to do this because when greens oxidize it's obvious. I did comparison tests between blended greens and greens I had juiced using a single auger juicer to macerate the veggies into a pulp and then squeezing the juice out of the pulp with my Welles hydraulic press.


It took several days in the fridge for the blended greens to show evidence they were finally oxidising more than the pressed juice did. As I never keep either blended smoothies or pressed juices in the fridge more than two days anyway, and most people who I have read of don't either, I'm going to have to call BS on blending being dubious from my own first hand experiments.

Well done, suez, certainly greens appear to oxidize much less than fruit.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Even blending is highly questionable
> behaviour,
> > but certainly good for people starting out who
> > have the SAD mentality. Evenstill, l have a
> nasty
> > habit of blending foods due to the convenience
> > factor...l really need to move beyond that
> level
> > and do raw properly.
>
> When I first started out on a raw diet I read
> enough to question whether blending oxidized the
> veggies too much to be worthwhile. Instead of
> taking those warnings at face value I ran
> experiments to test this out for myself with green
> smoothies and soups, which is what I was using a
> blender for.
>
> No extra special equipment was needed to do
> this because when greens oxidize it's obvious. I
> did comparison tests between blended greens and
> greens I had juiced using a single auger juicer to
> macerate the veggies into a pulp and then
> squeezing the juice out of the pulp with my Welles
> hydraulic press.
>
>
> It took several days in the fridge for the
> blended greens to show evidence they were finally
> oxidising more than the pressed juice did. As I
> never keep either blended smoothies or pressed
> juices in the fridge more than two days anyway,
> and most people who I have read of don't either,
> I'm going to have to call BS on blending being
> dubious from my own first hand experiments.

I am convinced from my experiences that blending is a great compromise, and now l have found other people who are saying similar things that l have been saying about blending. I will only promote blending as a convenience tool that one can use to get good levels of health, but l will never promote it in a way to suggest that it is ideal and problem free. Consuming blended food will never take you to the highest level.

I won't even argue about it anymore. Far as l am concerned, the blending issues are cut and dried.

We can go on about oxidisation blah blah blah, but what about something alittle more solid to go on like experiments. I usually avoid the oxidation arguement because it is so blah.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2014 08:22PM by The Sproutarian Man.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well done, suez, certainly greens appear to
> oxidize much less than fruit.


Thank you. Since the time I did these tests I have not read of one single other person doing them for themselves yet the myth lives on.

When l went back to raw l blended my greens for a couple of years, yet l wasn't healing and my face was as blotchy as ever (looked like an SAD eater, but probably worse lol). As soon as l bought a new juicer and started doing between 16 - 32 oz of cold pressed juice per day (Angel juicer) my skin cleared up, my lymph system got better, my digestion got better, my liver got better, my leaky gut got better and all my organs improved.

Blending = not healing the organs
Juicinbg = healing the organs quickly.

Dr Clement reports exactly the same thing (didn't know that at the time). He says his patients never heal properly on blended foods, but when they juice and eat their food they heal much faster and better.

Then we have Micheal Bergonzi. He blended water for 90 seconds, let it cool and then watered house plants. After 1 month they died. He also microwaved water, let it cool and watrered house plants, after 1 month they died. THIS TELLS US SOMETHING VERY VERY IMPORTANT!!!

You do the maths, it is not hard to work out.

Blending reduces the ability to thrive. You may get high energy, but there is a compromise.

Another interesting thing.....

when l was blending my foods/greens, the most powerful thing that improved my skin go from really bad to bad was deep meditation on the `sound' and `light'. Deep all night 6 hour meditations did more for my health than a 100% raw sproutarian diet.

It's all about the electrogmatic frequency folks! Micheal Gerbonzi provides a good case for it (see my post above), i've provided a good case for it, and Dr Clement has provided a good case for it.

Dr Clement said blending destroys electrical frequency, and this does appear to be the case.

What is electrical frequency? It's an energy force that science can't measure, but it does exist. Meditators are well aware of this, plants obviously know this (they die when blended water is used) and human bodies know this (see my post above).

People can try and get around this all they like and call it fluff and puff, but it is what it is.