[skepdic.com]

I can see lots of wings flapping about and various quantities of moderate level `monkey talk' being made here *sigh*, but l will endeavour to get back to this thread in 20 hours time, ask some questions and address some of the higher quality `monkey talk', none-the-less, some of the lower level `monkey talk' will not be addressed in this thread.

Just one thing to ponder in the mean time - post harvest produce/extracted fats and conductivity. Hmmmm.

Dont engage in monkey talk and u wont get monkey talk in return.

Whatever that is.

Chris,
I've enjoyed your input over the past year or so and you've helped me on a personal level. You will be missed!

hi powerlifter

thank you for your many sacrifices and contributions

they were myriad

The ego on Doug Graham never fails to amaze me. He says i should apologize for recommending a woman go to a qualified doctor who could actually order the correct tests she needs.

[www.vegsource.com]

Here is my response over on vegsource incase the thread disappears.

Like i said, im not going to argue semantics, i know full well that anyone with a PHD can use the prefix Dr before their name. I do think its a swizz when health authors like yourself do it, because people and ive seen it in the media regarding you Doug, where journalists and even your book customers, assume your are a doctor of medicine.

Your doctorate is as a chiropractor, nothing wrong with that. That is very impressive to me actually and like i said i wasn't here to argue the semantics of you using Dr or not.

What matters is are you currently licensed and able to offer this women the level of medical help she needs for her health, if that involves certain blood tests. The answer is you cannot, which is why i recommended she visited a real genuine currently licensed and practicing MD.

Your health advice on here is consistently below average, so no i will not apologize to you for saying that you don't currently have the capability to offer/interpret the tests/results this women may need for her health issues.

None of this is about health, or you wouldn't be charging people $10,000 dollars + to fast on WATER, i mean water is pretty much free.

As far as im aware you don't even offer any pre or post medical screening to check if its actually safe for your patients to water fast in the first place at these extremely expensive retreats.

How professional is that ? If anyone should be apologizing its yourself, to your legion of followers who have spent thousands and failed your 80/10/10 diet. Many of these people getting seriously ill in the process of following your poor dietary advice.

You don't even have a basic understanding of nutrition or human physiology.

I see you recommending water fasting for individuals with adrenal insufficiency, which is another potentially extremely dangerous advice. But thats another topic.

I see that veg source gave you a vacation too.

-------------------------

From: Dr. Doug Graham (DrGraham.vegsource.com)
Subject: After much discussion
Date: April 10, 2014 at 4:22 pm PST

After being warned, VS management has banned the poster listing himself as "nzyme" due to repeated and blatant posts that completely disregarded the stated rules of conduct on this board. I have been informed that all subsequent posts by this person will be removed, as will any other posts by anyone perceived to be nzyme.
As always, all posters are encouraged to interact kindly and respectfully. Disregard for the rules of management will invariably lead to being banned, sometimes without warning.

Good for you powerlifer, he is clearly misguiding people imo and therefore potentially and almost certainly harming them. Even though Brian Clement puts up with these people he is quite keen to their lack of scientific knowledge reckless practices. Opps I gotta go hope this post was not to stupid lol

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When l went back to raw l blended my greens for a
> couple of years, yet l wasn't healing and my face
> was as blotchy as ever (looked like an SAD eater,
> but probably worse lol). As soon as l bought a new
> juicer and started doing between 16 - 32 oz of
> cold pressed juice per day (Angel juicer) my skin
> cleared up, my lymph system got better, my
> digestion got better, my liver got better, my
> leaky gut got better and all my organs improved.
>
> Blending = not healing the organs
> Juicinbg = healing the organs quickly.
>
> Dr Clement reports exactly the same thing (didn't
> know that at the time). He says his patients never
> heal properly on blended foods, but when they
> juice and eat their food they heal much faster and
> better.
>
> Then we have Micheal Bergonzi. He blended water
> for 90 seconds, let it cool and then watered house
> plants. After 1 month they died. He also
> microwaved water, let it cool and watrered house
> plants, after 1 month they died. THIS TELLS US
> SOMETHING VERY VERY IMPORTANT!!!
>
> You do the maths, it is not hard to work out.
>
> Blending reduces the ability to thrive. You may
> get high energy, but there is a compromise.

Who is Micheal Bergonzi and where the details of this experiment on blended water.
Plants do survive in harsh environment with little water.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2014 07:42AM by RawPracticalist.

Micheal is a really nice chap. See video from 40:30 – 41:40 for explanation.

[www.youtube.com]

Blending is o.k for energy and reaching a good level of health, but if you want to reach the highest levels of health l would be avoiding it completely. Best to spend an enormous amount of time chewing things for best results.

Besides...when you blend you always need to add water, and imo this will water down the digestive enzymes in the body. Also, when we blend fruit or greens we already have plenty of water in the food, but adding more will be overkill imo. Not such a good thing to be doing.

Blending is basically a convenience tool. If you want to be a purist with the best health you would be advised to throw it away. I never used to blend when l went raw many years ago, l spent countless hours each day chewing my food. I would eat all day at my desk and all night at home....l was very dedicated in those days, a complete purist.

Dr Clement says blending is a tool for beginners, but when you get serious you ditch such tools and start eating your food. Not sure l agree, but it is not a tool for purists who want to do things at the highest level.

Juicing is a different story again because you would not be diluting the digestive enzymes by adding water like with blending.

If you think blending does not oxidise your food, look at how an apple will turn brown when you blend it for 30 seconds. People can make excuses and say the fiber protects it from oxidation (probably does a bit), but air will still blow into the blended food as evidenced by the apple turning brown.

www.thesproutarian.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2014 08:39AM by The Sproutarian Man.

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > When l went back to raw l blended my greens for
> a
> > couple of years, yet l wasn't healing and my
> face
> > was as blotchy as ever (looked like an SAD
> eater,
> > but probably worse lol). As soon as l bought a
> new
> > juicer and started doing between 16 - 32 oz of
> > cold pressed juice per day (Angel juicer) my
> skin
> > cleared up, my lymph system got better, my
> > digestion got better, my liver got better, my
> > leaky gut got better and all my organs improved.
>
> >
> > Blending = not healing the organs
> > Juicinbg = healing the organs quickly.
> >
> > Dr Clement reports exactly the same thing
> (didn't
> > know that at the time). He says his patients
> never
> > heal properly on blended foods, but when they
> > juice and eat their food they heal much faster
> and
> > better.
> >
> > Then we have Micheal Bergonzi. He blended water
> > for 90 seconds, let it cool and then watered
> house
> > plants. After 1 month they died. He also
> > microwaved water, let it cool and watrered
> house
> > plants, after 1 month they died. THIS TELLS US
> > SOMETHING VERY VERY IMPORTANT!!!
> >
> > You do the maths, it is not hard to work out.
> >
> > Blending reduces the ability to thrive. You may
> > get high energy, but there is a compromise.
>
> Who is Micheal Bergonzi and where the details of
> this experiment on blended water.
> Plants do survive in harsh environment with little
> water.

Well now I'm glad you brought this thread back to light. I had forgotten but now I can see that I tried to get some reasonable response from TSM on the crazy blending claim unsuccessfully back then too (on page 6).

I have not kept a list of all the more hardball questions I've asked him that have been left dangling in the void but I can recall several. I'm sure there are many more as I had forgotten this one.

Prana Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I see that veg source gave you a vacation too.
>
> -------------------------
>
> From: Dr. Doug Graham (DrGraham.vegsource.com)
> Subject: After much discussion
> Date: April 10, 2014 at 4:22 pm PST
>
> After being warned, VS management has banned the
> poster listing himself as "nzyme" due to repeated
> and blatant posts that completely disregarded the
> stated rules of conduct on this board. I have been
> informed that all subsequent posts by this person
> will be removed, as will any other posts by anyone
> perceived to be nzyme.
> As always, all posters are encouraged to interact
> kindly and respectfully. Disregard for the rules
> of management will invariably lead to being
> banned, sometimes without warning.




As we all know now, this was a blatant lie by Doug Graham.

Anon 102 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Prana Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I see that veg source gave you a vacation too.
> >
> > -------------------------
> >
> > From: Dr. Doug Graham (DrGraham.vegsource.com)
> > Subject: After much discussion
> > Date: April 10, 2014 at 4:22 pm PST
> >
> > After being warned, VS management has banned
> the
> > poster listing himself as "nzyme" due to
> repeated
> > and blatant posts that completely disregarded
> the
> > stated rules of conduct on this board. I have
> been
> > informed that all subsequent posts by this
> person
> > will be removed, as will any other posts by
> anyone
> > perceived to be nzyme.
> > As always, all posters are encouraged to
> interact
> > kindly and respectfully. Disregard for the
> rules
> > of management will invariably lead to being
> > banned, sometimes without warning.
>
>
>
>
> As we all know now, this was a blatant lie by Doug
> Graham.

Yes we do.

Such serial lying and weasel squirmings by the leaders when confronted are not good for the raw food movement. They should be rooted out and tossed.

Micheal Bergonzi is really a great guy.
I watched the video and he makes great points.
But blended water killing plants need to be repeat as an experiment.
I could boil water, let it sit and feed my plants and they will ok.
Blended water is worse than boiled water?

blended water is the same as free running stream water. Natural streams are poisonous for the plants. You can do experiments. Air fans are poisonous too. Hold your breath



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2014 09:43PM by Panchito.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RawPracticalist Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > When l went back to raw l blended my greens
> for
> > a
> > > couple of years, yet l wasn't healing and my
> > face
> > > was as blotchy as ever (looked like an SAD
> > eater,
> > > but probably worse lol). As soon as l bought
> a
> > new
> > > juicer and started doing between 16 - 32 oz
> of
> > > cold pressed juice per day (Angel juicer) my
> > skin
> > > cleared up, my lymph system got better, my
> > > digestion got better, my liver got better, my
> > > leaky gut got better and all my organs
> improved.
> >
> > >
> > > Blending = not healing the organs
> > > Juicinbg = healing the organs quickly.
> > >
> > > Dr Clement reports exactly the same thing
> > (didn't
> > > know that at the time). He says his patients
> > never
> > > heal properly on blended foods, but when they
> > > juice and eat their food they heal much
> faster
> > and
> > > better.
> > >
> > > Then we have Micheal Bergonzi. He blended
> water
> > > for 90 seconds, let it cool and then watered
> > house
> > > plants. After 1 month they died. He also
> > > microwaved water, let it cool and watrered
> > house
> > > plants, after 1 month they died. THIS TELLS
> US
> > > SOMETHING VERY VERY IMPORTANT!!!
> > >
> > > You do the maths, it is not hard to work out.
>
> > >
> > > Blending reduces the ability to thrive. You
> may
> > > get high energy, but there is a compromise.
> >
> > Who is Micheal Bergonzi and where the details
> of
> > this experiment on blended water.
> > Plants do survive in harsh environment with
> little
> > water.
>
> Well now I'm glad you brought this thread back to
> light. I had forgotten but now I can see that I
> tried to get some reasonable response from TSM on
> the crazy blending claim unsuccessfully back then
> too (on page 6).
>
> I have not kept a list of all the more hardball
> questions I've asked him that have been left
> dangling in the void but I can recall several. I'm
> sure there are many more as I had forgotten this
> one.


Just because l don't answer some of your questions does not mean l don't have a decent answer to them, and it does not mean l am squirming out of it. Sometimes l simply don't bother due to the heavy workload on my plate....I have done this several times with you. You have rarely had me stumped for an answer because l do think things through usually.

I might say more on the blending idea later. I am convinced it is not ideal and l will tall you why later if l have time. better.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2014 10:33PM by The Sproutarian Man.

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SueZ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > RawPracticalist Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > When l went back to raw l blended my greens
> > for
> > > a
> > > > couple of years, yet l wasn't healing and
> my
> > > face
> > > > was as blotchy as ever (looked like an SAD
> > > eater,
> > > > but probably worse lol). As soon as l
> bought
> > a
> > > new
> > > > juicer and started doing between 16 - 32 oz
>
> > of
> > > > cold pressed juice per day (Angel juicer)
> my
> > > skin
> > > > cleared up, my lymph system got better, my
> > > > digestion got better, my liver got better,
> my
> > > > leaky gut got better and all my organs
> > improved.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Blending = not healing the organs
> > > > Juicinbg = healing the organs quickly.
> > > >
> > > > Dr Clement reports exactly the same thing
> > > (didn't
> > > > know that at the time). He says his
> patients
> > > never
> > > > heal properly on blended foods, but when
> they
> > > > juice and eat their food they heal much
> > faster
> > > and
> > > > better.
> > > >
> > > > Then we have Micheal Bergonzi. He blended
> > water
> > > > for 90 seconds, let it cool and then
> watered
> > > house
> > > > plants. After 1 month they died. He also
> > > > microwaved water, let it cool and watrered
> > > house
> > > > plants, after 1 month they died. THIS TELLS
> > US
> > > > SOMETHING VERY VERY IMPORTANT!!!
> > > >
> > > > You do the maths, it is not hard to work
> out.
> >
> > > >
> > > > Blending reduces the ability to thrive. You
> > may
> > > > get high energy, but there is a compromise.
> > >
> > > Who is Micheal Bergonzi and where the details
> > of
> > > this experiment on blended water.
> > > Plants do survive in harsh environment with
> > little
> > > water.
> >
> > Well now I'm glad you brought this thread back
> to
> > light. I had forgotten but now I can see that I
> > tried to get some reasonable response from TSM
> on
> > the crazy blending claim unsuccessfully back
> then
> > too (on page 6).
> >
> > I have not kept a list of all the more hardball
> > questions I've asked him that have been left
> > dangling in the void but I can recall several.
> I'm
> > sure there are many more as I had forgotten
> this
> > one.
>
>
> Just because l don't answer some of your questions
> does not mean l don't have a decent answer to
> them, and it does not mean l am squirming out of
> it. Sometimes l simply don't bother due to the
> heavy workload on my plate....I have done this
> several times with you. You have rarely had me
> stumped for an answer because l do think things
> through usually.
>
> I might say more on the blending idea later. I am
> convinced it is not ideal and l will tall you why
> later if l have time. better.


"THIS TELLS
> US
> > > SOMETHING VERY VERY IMPORTANT!!!"


I don't know what this could possibly mean.


> > > "You do the maths, it is not hard to work out"


??!!@%&*(!)

"we consider blended food recreational food, not health food" - Brian Clement
[www.bodyenlightenment.me]


I certainly never healed properly on blended food. Brian also says the same thing with HHI patients who need deep internal healing.

www.thesproutarian.com

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "THIS TELLS
> > US
> > > > SOMETHING VERY VERY IMPORTANT!!!"
>
>
> I don't know what this could possibly mean.
>
>
> > > > "You do the maths, it is not hard to work
> out"
>
>
> ??!!@%&*(!)


Well?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2014 12:43PM by SueZ.