"Science has got you Barking up the Wrong Tree and you have been Tricked my friend if you think Heart Disease is linked to Fruit consumption."

Large amounts of fructose is linked to heart and liver damage. Many fruits, especially ones that are eaten by many in large amounts (bananas, dates figs, watermelon) are loaded with fructose. You can offset some of this damage by exercising heavily, but that's a liability and not something to be viewed as a healthy practice.


"Most of the “Science” being done is WRONG!!!

For example, in the first 30 years on the War against Cancer, we spent over $200 Billion and had over 1.5 Million Research Papers and yet, we went from 1 out of 3 people dying of Cancer to 1 out of 2 people dying of Cancer. That’s a 150% increase!!!

Why have we spent so much time and money to only see a 150% increase in Cancer Deaths?"


Once again, you are mistaking pharmaceutical science for science in general. Obviously the pharmaceutical industry has no interest in curing disease or the health/well-being of the population, they care about profit. This is not something we disagree on.

"First of all, I do NOT subscribe to Low Fat."

Good to hear.


"If you truly understood what Triglycerides were all about, you would understand why Fruit and Low Fat Diets raise Triglycerides.

If you truly understood what Triglycerides were all about, you would understand that High Triglycerides are an Effect and that there are many ways to raise Triglyceride Levels.

If you truly understood what Triglycerides were all about, you would understand that it's NOT the High Triglycerides - it's the way they are being ELEVATED."


Can you provide evidence of this?


"It’s called Cause & Effect and whenever we focus on Risk Factors, like High Triglycerides or even High Cholesterol, we are being Tricked and Fooled."

Yes, there are many, many variations to take into account when it comes to cholesterol/fats in relation to heart disease. The main culprit is toxic and inflammatory diets, not one single thing (such as high saturated fat or high HDL/LDL). You can have an excellent cholesterol ratio (total/HDL) and still have heart disease because you are eating a toxic, inflammatory diet. My main point to everyone is that raw saturated fat nor high total cholesterol has anything to do with causing heart disease.


"As far as High Fruit, if one is active and even if one is not active, Fruit is the best place to get those much NEEDED CARBOHYDRATE Calories!!!"

Not true at all... did you know that protein gets converted into sugar?

[www.marksdailyapple.com]

"Fat and protein were the dominant macronutrients (when food was even available) over the majority of our two-and-a-half million years as evolving humans. The lack of regular access to food and a scarcity of carbohydrates for much of this time necessitated that we adapt efficient pathways to readily store and access body fat for energy if we were to survive day-to-day and generation-to-generation. Our movement patterns were such that we never required large amounts of glucose or that we needed to store very much glycogen. It was predominantly fats, ketones and the minimal infusion of glucose via gluconeogenesis that got us here. Dietary carbs were insignificant. In fact, when you consider how ridiculously small the body’s glycogen reservoirs are, you understand that it would have been impossible for us to survive as a species if glucose were truly the “preferred” fuel. The liver, the main back-up glycogen/glucose storage facility for the brain and other glucose-burning organs, can only store about 100 grams of glycogen. Less than a day’s worth. Your muscles can only hold another 350-500 grams, barely enough to run for 90 minutes at a reasonable clip, and that glycogen isn’t even available to provide fuel for the brain. Meanwhile, we have a virtually unlimited storage capacity for fat (like 100,000 grams or close to a million calories on some people). The reason glycogen storage wasn’t necessary is because, between our copious fat storage capability, easy access to fats as fuel, gluconeogenesis and ketones, we just didn’t need much. Evolution tends not to reward structures or functions that take up unnecessary space or waste energy."

"Glucose is not the preferred fuel of muscle cells under normal human resting metabolic conditions or even under most normal human movement patterns (exercise). Fat is. Sure, given an unlimited supply of glucose and regular refilling of glycogen stores, skeletal muscle will burn through it during exercise the same way a fire burns through kindling when that’s all you have to offer. The body can shift carbohydrate oxidation to keep up with intake. But skeletal muscle can burn fat with great efficiency (and far less oxidative fallout) at relatively high outputs for very long bouts. Cardiac muscle actually prefers ketones, and the brain can run just fine (maybe even optimally) on a blend of ketones and minimal glucose. Our survival as a species has depended on these evolutionary adaptations away from glucose dependency. Entire civilizations have existed for ages on what is practically a zero-carb diet. Think about this: there is actually no requirement for any “essential dietary carbohydrates” in human nutrition. It’s possible to live a very long and healthy life never consuming much – if any – in the way of carbs, provided you get adequate dietary protein and fat. The same can’t be said for going too long without protein or fat. Cut too far back on either of those macronutrients and you will eventually get sick and die."



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2014 05:42PM by jtprindl.

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] - Fruit consumption and risk of type 2 diabetes: results from three prospective longitudinal cohort studies - "Our findings suggest the presence of heterogeneity in the associations between individual fruit consumption and risk of type 2 diabetes. Greater consumption of specific whole fruits, particularly blueberries, grapes, and apples, is significantly associated with a lower risk of type 2 diabetes, whereas greater consumption of fruit juice is associated with a higher risk"...

You may want to tell Kristina it's not such a good idea to be drinking massive amounts of fruit and carrot juice. Juices are more concentrated sources of FRUCTOSE.

And yes, I'm aware that fruit juice does not have fiber, which helps in regulating blood sugar. Does that mean I believe that eating very large amounts of fructose from whole fruit is perfectly healthy just because there's fiber? No, and many people report problems with high-fruit diets after a while. Those who seem to not have an issue with it are people who exercise copious amounts on a daily basis. Again, needing to exercise to not feel the detrimental effects of your diet is a liability. If you follow a well-planned 100% raw food diet and smoke cigarettes, chances are you won't get lung cancer due to the protective properties of your diet.. obviously that doesn't mean it's not harmful to smoke cigarettes. I do agree that there needs to be more science done on fruit fructose and potential negative effects, though.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2014 06:43PM by jtprindl.

I wrote:

"As far as High Fruit, if one is active and even if one is not active, Fruit is the best place to get those much NEEDED CARBOHYDRATE Calories!!!"

jtprindl wrote:

<<<Not true at all... did you know that protein gets converted into sugar?>>>

No jt, I just fell off the turnip truck.

Of course I know that up to 58% of EXCESS Dietary Protein can be used to make Carbohydrates, but it’s only for Emergency situations. That article you linked to by Mark Sisson clearly shows that this FOOL does NOT understand how our system is supposed to work. The last thing we want to do is get our Carbohydrates from EXCESS Dietary Protein!!!

We Humans are Primates and Primates are Frugivores and when we eat a diet rich in Carbohydrates, we are constantly topping off or filling up our Carbohydrate Fuel Tank!

That’s why Fruit raises Triglyceride Levels.

Every time we EAT the FOOD we are supposed to EAT by DESIGN, Food that actually wants us to eat it because of our symbiotic relationship, we fill up our Carbohydrate Fuel Tank and the Excess Carbohydrates are quickly converted to Triglycerides, thereby, temporarily raising those levels and are quickly stored as Fat for future use. This temporary raise in Triglycerides from Fruit being easily and quickly converted and stored as Fat for future use is how things are supposed to work.

Ask yourself, why have we been given a small Carbohydrate Fuel Tank and why have we been given Anatomy that clearly Proves that we are Plant Eaters, especially Fruit Eaters?

If we are Designed to Eat Plants that are full of Carbohydrates, why would be given a larger Carbohydrate Fuel Tank?

Mark Sisson is so clueless that he actually thinks that we don’t need Carbohydrates while not realizing that all of his excuses only explain what happens in emergencies when our Carbohydrate Fuel Tank runs out.

Remember, 1 gram of Carbohydrates is just over 4 Calories and 1 gram of Fat is just over 9 Calories, so we have been given a small Carbohydrate Fuel Tank because our Primary Food Source is about 90% Carbohydrates and we are constantly filling up our Carbohydrate Fuel Tank every time we eat and if we had to store all of our Energy as Carbohydrates, it would take up a lot more space because for every gram of Carbohydrates we store we also need 3 grams of Water.

The fact that we have a relatively small Carbohydrate Fuel Tank explains why Fruit is our Ideal Diet.

"Primates are the only animals on the face of the earth that can taste sweet and see color. We were designed by nature to see, grasp, eat and enjoy the flavor of colorful, sweet fruits." -Joel Fuhrman, M.D., “Eat to Live” p. 30

“Our bodies need carbohydrates more than any other substance. Our muscle cells and brains are designed to run on carbohydrates. Carbohydrate-rich foods, when consumed in their natural state, are low in calories and high in fiber compared with fatty foods, processed foods, or animal products.” p. 116

<<<Large amounts of fructose is linked to heart and liver damage. Many fruits, especially ones that are eaten by many in large amounts (bananas, dates figs, watermelon) are loaded with fructose.>>>

There you go with fructose again!!!

How many times have we had this conversation with you and how many times do you keep saying the same nonsense?

There are NO studies done on Fruit - it’s always High Fructose Corn Syrup or Fruit Juice!!!

Brian Clement is missing too many Pieces of the Puzzle and so are you!!!

"Sit down before fact like a little child, and be prepared to give up every preconceived notion, follow humbly wherever and to whatever abyss nature leads, or you shall learn nothing." -T. H. Huxley (1825-1895)

[rawfoodsos.com]
Wild and Ancient Fruit: Is it Really Small, Bitter, and Low in Sugar?

In case I did not make myself clear in my post above, we have been given a small Carbohydrate Fuel Tank because our Ideal Diet is loaded with Carbohydrates and it’s more efficient to store extra Energy as Fat.

John, please explain why there are no essential dietary carbohydrates but why there are essential amino acids and essential fatty acids.

"Remember, 1 gram of Carbohydrates is just over 4 Calories and 1 gram of Fat is just over 9 Calories"

So fat provides us with energy for a longer period of time, which would further support that fat is the body's primary fuel.

"Mark Sisson is so clueless that he actually thinks that we don’t need Carbohydrates while not realizing that all of his excuses only explain what happens in emergencies when our Carbohydrate Fuel Tank runs out."

No, he states that when given an unlimited supply of carbohydrates (like going to the supermarket and buying fruit once you run out), the body will adapt to burn them more effectively and store them as fat, but that in no way proves that carbohydrates are the body's primary fuel. He's not against eating carbs, he's against eating massive amounts of them. Also, where is your evidence that only EXCESS dietary protein is converted into glucose?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2014 08:08PM by jtprindl.

[www.drjaywortman.com]

"It is true, when you present a range of fuels to the cells, glucose, fatty acids, protein, mainly, the cells will burn glucose first. From this we deduce that they do that because they prefer glucose. What if the opposite were true; that they burn it because they don’t like it and must dispose of it as quickly as possible?.... All this makes sense when you consider that it is done to keep glucose levels down in the normal range. It is pushed into the cells to be burned, it is turned into fat which is pushed into the fat cells where it can be kept out of the way so as not to interfere with the primary goal of burning off the glucose as quickly as possible."

"Consider what is going on at the metabolic level when you eat a high-carb meal like that. Think of the amount of starch and sugar you have eaten which is quickly digested and flows into your blood in the form of glucose. There are many teaspoons of glucose in that meal. What you have done is you have created a metabolic emergency. Your body is desperate to keep your blood glucose in the normal range while your bloodstream is being flooded with glucose from that meal. You can imagine the work that insulin must do, and in fairly short order, to control this flood of glucose and to protect you from its toxic effects. It is no wonder that our metabolic systems break down as we continue to eat this way over the course of years, with the development of insulin resistance, hyperinsulinemia and, eventually, for a lot of us, type 2 diabetes."

"There is evidence that the brain, when burning ketones, is more efficient than when it is burning glucose. Less oxygen is needed to produce ATP, the energy molecule, when burning ketones. It also appears that when burning fats and ketones, the problem of excess oxidative stress is resolved. Oxidative stress is being implicated in a host of pathological conditions and may very well be the common factor that explains why serious diseases like cancer, heart disease and diabetes are linked. I also know that my inflammatory markers are very low on a low-carb high-fat diet. We know that there is an inflammatory underpinning to chronic diseases of all types. The inflammation and oxidative stress problems are linked and there is a bit of a chicken and egg issue there in terms of which causes which. It is somewhat moot, however, when it comes to a LCHF diet since both are profoundly reduced."

"Another way to look at the question of whether fat is the preferred fuel is to ask yourself, in what form does the body store fuel? We store some glucose in the muscle and liver in the form of glycogen. This is available in times of acute stress as a fast source of emergency fuel but it doesn’t last very long. Our glycogen stores are quickly depleted. The long term storage form of fuel is fat. We store both the fats we eat and the carbs that our liver converts to fat in our adipose tissue. When we need to access that fuel, we release it as fatty acids and burn it as such. We don’t convert it into glucose. This implies to me that the body prefers fat over glucose."



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2014 08:22PM by jtprindl.

Anon 102 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
> ---------------------------------------------
>
>
> > Doug is like the walking dead...expressionless
> and
> > lifeless like a robot. You don't know the half
> of
> > it with Doug, he has been caught up in the
> scandal
> > of the decade in the raw food world and it
> looks
> > like he is going down big time. Even his N.H
> > friends are dumping him in droves.
>
>
> > I don't want to talk about Doug publically...
>
>
> Ha ha! Classic cognitive dissonance. Of course
> this is in addition to all the things you've
> already said about Doug on this site and
> vegsource. But yet you don't want to talk about
> Doug publically. lol. Methinks you have a mental
> problem.



You know l have largely kept out of it and haven't said much at all. I have only said a few comments about lowly evolved human beings acting badly and not behaving like responsible adults.

It tells us that raw vegan diets don't make angels because folks on them can still act rotten.

John Rose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Thanks for the chuckle. Indeed, TSM is a
> complicated individual.
>


That is spot on John, l am one of the most unusual and complicated people you will ever meet...completely unique, but not in a bad way. I can come across as a bundle of contradictions. One thing with me though,there is no hidden agenda, what you see is what you get, but the perplexing part is that people are unable to classify me because they have never come across anyone like me before.

You would be surprised at how l can read you John. Here's a hint...at times l am you, no kidding,l transform and become you. John...we are all connected.

Note: when l become you it is always unintentional, certain things cause me to become you. I wish it didn't happen, but it does unfortnately at certain times. See, spiritual and phychic people can take on various people.

Sound scarey John? No no...it is how we are made, that is truth. Can you handle the truth John? I can handle it, but can you?

www.thesproutarian.com

"Sometimes I cannot help but wonder if TSM is actually part of Controlled Opposition."

All I can say to this is.... WOW.

"Obviously, this Extreme Dietary Approach has NO threat of catching on, which fits their overall Agenda and is another reason why I cannot help but wonder about TSM."

The Hippocrates Health Institute must be in on it too, right John? I mean, why on Earth would anyone want to have a diet rich FRESH FOOD that contains potent phytochemicals, vitamins, minerals, long-chain omega-3's, etc.? You might want to get a toxicity and cellular nutritional analysis... it really seems like you have some type of mental imbalance going on that causes severe paranoia. By the way, the sproutarian diet includes plenty of juicing, and far more nutrient-dense and health-promoting juices than store-bought veggies.

John Rose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> promote the most Extreme Version of what
> we do where we have to spend a HUGE amount of time
> preparing Foods that are NOT even that appealing.


My philosophy is different to most. I like to embrace foods as it is without the need to flavour it. I like the idea of food being plain tasting like how plant eating animals eat and taste it...to embrace the hardcore flavours and not become tempted by addictions and weak tastebuds. Mr Kearns is the most hardcore of anyone l have ever known...his sprout dinners are absolutely foul and unappealing in the extreme....his dinners are rough and tough like straw....HORRIBLE tasting food.

My biggest challenge is to make the food taste better because not many want to eat that way. I have to go against everything l believe in and broaden my horizens and make things taste better so more people can do the sprout diet.



> Obviously, this Extreme Dietary Approach has NO
> threat of catching on,

LOL. I am looking at making things taste better for people,+ l always say that if things are too hard you can add in fruit and other things, BUT at least do 50% sprouts which include green sprout juices, ferments and sprouted seeds with algaes and seaweeds. That is quite manageable,but when it comes to the sprouted beans and grains l find that no-one seems to like doing that part because they are really hardcore foods lol, but l am looking at ways to make things easier. No point having a perfect diet if hardly anyone no-one wants to eat it. Mr Kearns and myself are happy to eat the plainest meals in existance, but very few are prepared to do that unless they are big into meditation and like simple plain food like monks etc.

I have always said "let the taste buds adjust and you will learn to enjoy the food and be satisfied", but people still have problems with this to some extent because addiction to sweet and flavoured foods runs deep.

Like what Dr Clement says..."eat for the power from the food and get over the addictions". I follow that principle. If you can train the tastebuds to enjoy the really hardcore foods you can reap good benefit that no other diets can come close to giving. That's why l continue to eat these strong tasting foods...you get abundant rewards eating this way.

Still...l need to make things easier for people and need to force myself to do experiments by making meals that people would find easier to eat. I might have to add honey or stevia to various food *cringe*, but l willdo what l need to do.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2014 11:28PM by The Sproutarian Man.

just look at all the effort "sprout" people put in order to convince others. Their preparation effort is so big that thats all they can think about. They try to dominate others on forums too with a bag full of selective studies showing this or that. THey are no scientist either though they appear to others as one. For example, Dr Brian Clements got his Dr degree for $50 on mail order. His university was discovered a vacant lot that never existed. His story is available here on this site (search for "parking lot". Who knows what other secrets "sprout" people have. They do put a big effort towards brain washing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2014 03:53PM by Panchito.

"For example, Dr Brian Clements got his Dr degree for $50 on mail order."

Must've been one hell of a discount considering the knowledge he acquired is healing thousands of people from chronic disease There's also no evidence of this, it's pure speculation based off of one internet article lol

"They try to dominate others on forums too with a bag full of selective studies showing this or that."

Um, you post studies nearly every day in the "Other Health" section of this forum... you just choose to blatantly ignore any study that doesn't agree with your current beliefs. Your logic: "If the study agree's with my views, it's valid, if it doesn't, it's inaccurate".

"They do put a big effort towards brain washing."

Really? To me it looks like an effort to promote FRESH food rich in potent phytochemicals, enzymes, oxygen, long-chain omega-3's, minerals, etc. A more accurate description at an effort towards brain washing would be the low-fat community trying to convince everyone that this is how they should eat, regardless of how poor that advice truly is.

Have a wonderful day

For convenience, here is the link: [www.prisonplanet.com]

never engage in a talk with jtprindl (). He's just pest you to death

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For convenience, here is the link:
> [www.prisonplanet.com]
> date-beet-juice-brian-clement-of-hippocrates-pot-r
> e-criminalization-and-soldiers-under-attack.html
>
> never engage in a talk with jtprindl (). He's just
> pest you to death


I can see why you don't want to engage in any conversations with me because you always end up looking... to put it nicely, "not so intelligent".

je je if you thing a conehead looks good, good luck bro.