Carbs are anything that is not protein or fat.
Humans have been living on carbs for years.
The studies should make a difference between cooked and raw carbs.
I live mostly on raw carbs and I am doing really well.

The reason why we have a very small Carbohydrate Fuel Tank is because our Species Specific Diet is HIGH in Carbohydrates, so we should always have a FULL Tank every time we Eat. And if we don't Eat, Gluconeogenesis can kick in during the first ~3 days depending on how active we are and then, after ~3 days of No Eating, Ketosis and Autolysis kick as an Emergency Fuel Source. However, we are NOT supposed to be in a CONSTANT State of Emergency and is SIMPLY NOT how we are designed.

Those who believe and practice a Ketosis Type of Diet simply do NOT understand how are Bodies are Designed.

For those interested in understanding how these Ketosis Type of Diets are only to be used during Emergencies, read the article below.

[plantpositive.squarespace.com]
TPNS 58-61: Ketosis Is Natural. Natural Is Good.


Remember, there is more Confusion on Nutrition than there is on any other subject (and that's by DESIGN), so we should NOT rely on Science to Prove anything because there will always be an opposing view with even MORE so-called Scientific Proof.

All we have to do is use simple COMMON SENSE by looking at our Anatomy. We start with these Anatomical Limitations and then, we look to see if we have DAMAGED ourselves or even the Environment for any further Anatomical Limitations.

“Society is always taken by surprise by any new example of common sense.” -Ralph Waldo Emerson

"Whenever you find that you are on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect." -Mark Twain

Those who want to promote a high fat diet are coming up with any study that shows that carbs even raw carbs are bad for us.
What is left to eat when fruits and veggies are taken out?
Nuts have a lot of anti nutrients and nature would not expect us to sprout them as our fundamental food source.
So if we want to be on a high fat diet, you are left with consuming oils like olive or coconut oils. But these are not foods.
If my evening meal is mostly olive oil then something is wrong.
Olive oil is not growing on trees, nowhere to be found in nature.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> suncloud Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Red blood cells have no mitochondria, so must
> > depend on glucose exclusively - never fatty
> acids,
> > never proteins, and never ketones.
> >
> > "Despite their massive use as fuels, fatty
> acids
> > are oxidized only in the mitochondria. But not
> all
> > human cells possess mitochondria! Although that
> > may sound strange, human red blood cells are
> the
> > most common cells lacking mitochondria. Other
> > examples include tissues of the eyes, such as
> the
> > lens, which is almost totally devoid of
> > mitochondria; and the outer segment of the
> retina,
> > which contains the photosensitive pigment. You
> may
> > have already guessed that these cells and
> tissues
> > then must produce ATP by metabolizing glucose
> > only."
> >
> >
> [www.nature.com]
>
> >
> daptation-of-nutrient-utilization-in-humans-142328
>
> > 07
> >
> > The above is not an endorsement for excessive
> > glucose, but sufficient dietary glucose is
> > essential. Glucose can be recycled to a
> certain
> > extent through the Cori Cycle, but this is not
> an
> > energy-efficient mechanism and uses more ATP
> than
> > it produces. (loses 4 ATP each cycle)
> >
> > Cute animation of Cori Cycle:
> >
> >
> [www.wiley.com]
>
> > ations/cori_cycle/cori_cycle.htm
>
>
> How many calories are we talking here 30? 40? For
> someone who is in ketoses, and thereby has all
> their fat cells throughout their whole body
> available to produce glucose - regardless of it
> being inefficient to do so - it seems, to me, to
> be a very negligible waste of energy. For the rest
> of us it's pretty darn hard not to get 30 or 40
> calories of glucose a day so the argument seems
> like splitting hairs - unless I'm missing
> something.
>
> It would probably be a different story if red
> blood cells had no mitochondria from the get go
> but they do when they are forming.
>
> Here's a cool photo of red blood cells ejecting
> their nuclei, where their mitochondria, etc, live
> before the cells mature.
>
> [wi.mit.edu]-
> cells-nuke-their-nuclei

I don't know why suncloud's link didn't work but here is the info, minus the cute, for those who aren't yet aware of it and are interested...


[en.wikipedia.org]

look in the mirror and find the exception You are possesed by a strong beileve where you have the role of the supreme dietary authority. Even Suez and Jprngling backdown every now and then.

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Panchito Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > this is a vid of a 98 year young low fat vegan
> > (high carb diet)
> >
> > [www.youtube.com]
>
> Some people are exceptions, but not a wise move
> going low fat according to the `real' science.

There is a GRAIN of truth in everything!


The way I see it, if you want to experiment and eat carbs, go ahead.
See how it makes you feel. It may keep you raw at times...sometimes a raw cracker may do it for you. Sprouted grain cereal may be great for those who used to eat cooked sugar cereals. If you don't feel its right for you then stop, and always share your experiences and experiments! Those are "carbs", right? So is fruit right?





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2014 05:52PM by coconutcream.

"Jprngling backdown every now and then."

Haha if that's what you want to call it. I call it ignoring the dogmatic statements that are religiously repeated over and over by some of the close-minded and ignorant high-fruit eaters. Just like some people don't want to be helped with their health, some people don't want to learn anything that might contradict their current beliefs. Can't please everyone nor do I have any intention to.

"However, we are NOT supposed to be in a CONSTANT State of Emergency"

Wait, no, it couldn't be... another statement perpetrated as factual despite zero evidence that nutritional ketosis is the body's "state of emergency". Why don't you go ahead and prove this and then after you do, prove the negative effects of being in nutritional ketosis (not ketoacidosis or metabolic acidosis). Sorry, but no one with an open-mind or ability to think for themselves is going to believe you just because you or your files said it.

For anyone who doesn't understand the difference between dietary (nutritional) ketosis and ketoacidosis...

Dietary ketosis is the state your body goes into when either on a low-carb diet or starvation and is regulated by insulin to prevent the over-production of ketone bodies, thus preventing acidosis (ketone bodies are acids). Insulin doesn't just regulate blood glucose, it also regulates the production of ketone bodies. Unless you're an alcoholic or diabetic, dietary ketosis is harmless and is simply another natural metabolic state. Blood pH remains within normal, healthy limits.

Ketoacidosis occurs when the body cannot regulate the production of ketone bodies and is a sign of a serious health problem such as diabetes or alcoholism, not because you're eating a high-fat diet.

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] - Long-term effects of a ketogenic diet in obese patients - "The present study shows the beneficial effects of a long-term ketogenic diet. It significantly reduced the body weight and body mass index of the patients. Furthermore, it decreased the level of triglycerides, LDL cholesterol and blood glucose, and increased the HDL level of cholesterol. Administering a ketogenic diet for a relatively longer period of time did not produce any significant side effects in the patients. Therefore, the present study confirms that it is safe to use a ketogenic diet for a longer period of time than previously demonstrated".

Interestingly, there's zero essential dietary carbohydrates.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2014 07:09PM by jtprindl.

yeap,

[en.wikipedia.org]

Quote

Ketone bodies are acidic, but acid-base homeostasis in the blood is normally maintained through bicarbonate buffering, respiratory compensation to vary the amount of CO2 in the bloodstream, hydrogen ion absorption by tissue proteins and bone, and renal compensation through increased excretion of dihydrogen phosphate and ammonium ions.[11] Prolonged excess of ketone bodies can overwhelm normal compensatory mechanisms, leading to acidosis if blood pH falls below 7.35.

A mild acidosis may result from prolonged fasting or when following a ketogenic diet or a very low calorie diet.[14][15]

when the body is in ketosis, one's breath may smell of acetone. This is due to the breakdown of acetoacetic acid intoacetone and carbon dioxide which is exhaled through the lungs. Acetone is the chemical responsible for the smell of nail polish remover and some paint thinners.

[en.wikipedia.org]

Quote

Long-term use of the ketogenic diet in children increases the risk of retarded growth, bone fractures and kidney stones.[4] The diet reduces levels of insulin-like growth factor 1, which is important for childhood growth. Like many anticonvulsant drugs, the ketogenic diet has an adverse effect on bone health. Many factors may be involved such as acidosis and suppressed growth hormone.[36] About 1 in 20 children on the ketogenic diet will develop kidney stones (compared with one in several thousand for the general population). A class of anticonvulsants known as carbonic anhydrase inhibitors (topiramate, zonisamide) are known to increase the risk of kidney stones, but the combination of these anticonvulsants and the ketogenic diet does not appear to elevate the risk above that of the diet alone.[37] The stones are treatable and do not justify discontinuation of the diet.[37] Johns Hopkins Hospital now gives oral potassium citrate supplements to all ketogenic diet patients, resulting in a sevenfold decrease in the incidence of kidney stones.[38] However, this empiric usage has not been tested in a prospective controlled trial.[8] Kidney stone formation (nephrolithiasis) is associated with the diet for four reasons:[37]

Excess calcium in the urine (hypercalciuria) occurs due to increased bone demineralisation with acidosis. Bones are mainly composed of calcium phosphate. The phosphate reacts with the acid, and the calcium is excreted by the kidneys.[37]
Hypocitraturia: the urine has an abnormally low concentration of citrate, which normally helps to dissolve free calcium.[37]
The urine has a low pH, which stops uric acid from dissolving, leading to crystals that act as a nidus for calcium stone formation.[37]
Many institutions traditionally restricted the water intake of patients on the diet to 80% of normal daily needs;[37] this practice is no longer encouraged.[4]

In adults, common side effects include weight loss, constipation, raised cholesterol levels and, in women, menstrual irregularities including amenorrhoea.[39]

"Prolonged excess of ketone bodies can overwhelm normal compensatory mechanisms, leading to acidosis if blood pH falls below 7.35."

Reading comprehension isn't your thing, is it? Dietary ketosis does not result in PROLONGED EXCESS of ketone bodies because they are regulated by insulin.

"Excess calcium in the urine (hypercalciuria) occurs due to increased bone demineralisation with acidosis."

Wrong.

[onlinelibrary.wiley.com] - "There is no evidence from superior quality balance studies that increasing the diet acid load promotes skeletal bone mineral loss or osteoporosis. Changes of urine calcium do not accurately represent calcium balance. Promotion of the “alkaline diet” to prevent calcium loss is not justified".

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] - "All of the findings from this meta-analysis were contrary to the acid ash hypothesis. Higher phosphate intakes were associated with decreased urine calcium and increased calcium retention. This meta-analysis did not find evidence that phosphate intake contributes to demineralization of bone or to bone calcium excretion in the urine. Dietary advice that dairy products, meats, and grains are detrimental to bone health due to "acidic" phosphate content needs reassessment. There is no evidence that higher phosphate intakes are detrimental to bone health".

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] - "A causal association between dietary acid load and osteoporotic bone disease is not supported by evidence and there is no evidence that an alkaline diet is protective of bone health".

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] - "A diet rich in fruit and vegetable intake is thought to enhance bone health as the result of its greater potassium and lower "acidic" content than a diet rich in animal protein and sodium. Consequently, there have been a number of studies of diet manipulation to enhance potassium and "alkaline" content of the diet to improve bone density or other parameters of bone health. Although acid loading or an acidic diet featuring a high protein intake may be associated with an increase in calciuria, the evidence supporting a role of these variables in the development of osteoporosis is not consistent. Similarly, intervention studies with a more alkaline diet or use of supplements of potassium citrate or bicarbonate have not consistently shown a bone health benefit. In the elderly, inadequate protein intake is a greater problem for bone health than protein excess".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2014 07:32PM by jtprindl.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Prolonged excess of ketone bodies can overwhelm
> normal compensatory mechanisms, leading to
> acidosis if blood pH falls below 7.35."
>
> Reading comprehension isn't your thing, is it?
> Dietary ketosis does not result in PROLONGED
> EXCESS of ketone bodies because they are regulated
> by insulin.

Quote

A mild acidosis may result from prolonged fasting or when following a ketogenic diet or a very low calorie diet.[14][15]

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jtprindl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "Prolonged excess of ketone bodies can
> overwhelm
> > normal compensatory mechanisms, leading to
> > acidosis if blood pH falls below 7.35."
> >
> > Reading comprehension isn't your thing, is it?
> > Dietary ketosis does not result in PROLONGED
> > EXCESS of ketone bodies because they are
> regulated
> > by insulin.
>
> A mild acidosis may result from prolonged fasting
> or when following a ketogenic diet or a very low
> calorie diet.[14][15]


Did you even read the study referenced? There is a reason it says "may", because they couldn't conclude if the ketogenic diet itself caused acidosis. The reality, of course, is that not all ketogenic diets are the same and people can have an impaired ability to produce insulin (or drink lots of alcohol) while on ketogenic diets, paving way for ketoacidosis. This doesn't mean that the ketogenic diet caused acidosis, it means their body wasn't functioning properly and they weren't able to regulate the level of ketone bodies. Healthy individuals with properly functioning organs will not develop acidosis from dietary ketosis.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2014 07:48PM by jtprindl.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did you even read the study referenced? There is a
> reason it says "may", because they couldn't
> conclude if the ketogenic diet itself caused
> acidosis. The reality,...

reference [14] Hartman AL, Vining EP (January 2007). "Clinical aspects of the ketogenic diet". Epilepsia 48 (1): 31–42. doi:10.1111/j.1528-1167.2007.00914.x. PMID 17241206.

Quote

However, numerous professional organizations, including the American Dietetic Association and the American Heart Association, have cautioned against the use of low-carbohydrate diets.9- 12 There are concerns that low-carbohydrate diets lead to abnormal metabolic functioning that may have serious medical consequences, particularly for participants with cardiovascular disease, type 2 diabetes mellitus, dyslipidemia, or hypertension. Specifically, it has been cautioned that low-carbohydrate diets cause accumulation of ketones and may result in abnormal metabolism of insulin and impaired liver and kidney function; in salt and water depletion that may cause postural hypotension, fatigue, constipation, and nephrolithiasis; in excessive consumption of animal proteins and fats that may promote hyperlipidemia; and in higher dietary protein loads that may impair renal function.13,14

Yes, the key to preventing bone loss is good levels of calcium/mineralisation in the diet and not to eat too much protein and higher potassium to protect the kidneys. There are various studies which tell us that. The problem is that the people who often write the wiki stuff are not aware of all the studies, so wiki often is wrong because it comes to misleading conclusions due to ignorant writers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2014 08:09PM by The Sproutarian Man.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Panchito Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > jtprindl Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > "Prolonged excess of ketone bodies can
> > overwhelm
> > > normal compensatory mechanisms, leading to
> > > acidosis if blood pH falls below 7.35."
> > >
> > > Reading comprehension isn't your thing, is
> it?
> > > Dietary ketosis does not result in PROLONGED
> > > EXCESS of ketone bodies because they are
> > regulated
> > > by insulin.
> >
> > A mild acidosis may result from prolonged
> fasting
> > or when following a ketogenic diet or a very
> low
> > calorie diet.[14][15]
>
>
> Did you even read the study referenced? There is a
> reason it says "may", because they couldn't
> conclude if the ketogenic diet itself caused
> acidosis. The reality, of course, is that not all
> ketogenic diets are the same and people can have
> an impaired ability to produce insulin (or drink
> lots of alcohol) while on ketogenic diets, paving
> way for ketoacidosis. This doesn't mean that the
> ketogenic diet caused acidosis, it means their
> body wasn't functioning properly and they weren't
> able to regulate the level of ketone bodies.
> Healthy individuals with properly functioning
> organs will not develop acidosis from dietary
> ketosis.

You've done a great job here this afternoon countering the BS posters. Kudos!

<<<Interestingly, there's zero essential dietary carbohydrates.>>>

If you understood more about how the body works, you would know why our so-called Experts have NOT come out with a number for Essential Dietary Carbohydrates and that's because it's a fairly complicated and Individual Calculation.

Unfortunately, you, jt, will never figure it out unless you read it from someone else and I maybe one of the few people who truly understand this complicated process and that's only because I spent over 1,500 hours perfecting a very complicated mathematical process to monitor Caloric Activity.

In other words, it's very difficult to give general guidelines for Essential Dietary Carbohydrates because they vary so much from Individual to Individual and from day to day and since we do have an Emergency Back Up System, our so-called Experts are just as CLUELESS as YOU, jt!!!





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2014 08:06PM by John Rose.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jtprindl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Panchito Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > jtprindl Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > "Prolonged excess of ketone bodies can
> > > overwhelm
> > > > normal compensatory mechanisms, leading to
> > > > acidosis if blood pH falls below 7.35."
> > > >
> > > > Reading comprehension isn't your thing, is
> > it?
> > > > Dietary ketosis does not result in
> PROLONGED
> > > > EXCESS of ketone bodies because they are
> > > regulated
> > > > by insulin.
> > >
> > > A mild acidosis may result from prolonged
> > fasting
> > > or when following a ketogenic diet or a very
> > low
> > > calorie diet.[14][15]
> >
> >
> > Did you even read the study referenced? There is
> a
> > reason it says "may", because they couldn't
> > conclude if the ketogenic diet itself caused
> > acidosis. The reality, of course, is that not
> all
> > ketogenic diets are the same and people can
> have
> > an impaired ability to produce insulin (or
> drink
> > lots of alcohol) while on ketogenic diets,
> paving
> > way for ketoacidosis. This doesn't mean that
> the
> > ketogenic diet caused acidosis, it means their
> > body wasn't functioning properly and they
> weren't
> > able to regulate the level of ketone bodies.
> > Healthy individuals with properly functioning
> > organs will not develop acidosis from dietary
> > ketosis.
>
> You've done a great job here this afternoon
> countering the BS posters. Kudos!

Of course they will blather on anyway.

hey, Suez (and the high fat gang-ketosis zombies) likes to dump long text to move up the WARNINGS out of sight.

Scroll up and see the bold letters and save yourself from falling into serious medical consequences.

See how quickly they dump text to bury the important information



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2014 08:13PM by Panchito.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jtprindl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Panchito Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > jtprindl Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > "Prolonged excess of ketone bodies can
> > > overwhelm
> > > > normal compensatory mechanisms, leading to
> > > > acidosis if blood pH falls below 7.35."
> > > >
> > > > Reading comprehension isn't your thing, is
> > it?
> > > > Dietary ketosis does not result in
> PROLONGED
> > > > EXCESS of ketone bodies because they are
> > > regulated
> > > > by insulin.
> > >
> > > A mild acidosis may result from prolonged
> > fasting
> > > or when following a ketogenic diet or a very
> > low
> > > calorie diet.[14][15]
> >
> >
> > Did you even read the study referenced? There is
> a
> > reason it says "may", because they couldn't
> > conclude if the ketogenic diet itself caused
> > acidosis. The reality, of course, is that not
> all
> > ketogenic diets are the same and people can
> have
> > an impaired ability to produce insulin (or
> drink
> > lots of alcohol) while on ketogenic diets,
> paving
> > way for ketoacidosis. This doesn't mean that
> the
> > ketogenic diet caused acidosis, it means their
> > body wasn't functioning properly and they
> weren't
> > able to regulate the level of ketone bodies.
> > Healthy individuals with properly functioning
> > organs will not develop acidosis from dietary
> > ketosis.
>
> You've done a great job here this afternoon
> countering the BS posters. Kudos!


He has.

WARNING

Suez and The Sproutarian Man make long text dumps to bury the bold indformation. They pick a long text and answer it with one word or something short. This moves the warnings out of sight so that people cannot read the serious medical consequences of their recommendations

<<<hey, Suez (and the high fat gang-ketosis zombies) likes to dump long text to move up the WARNINGS out of sight.

Scroll up and see the bold letters and save yourself from falling into serious medical consequences.

See how quickly they dump text to bury the important information>>>

Hey Panchito,

You nailed sUEz - that's exactly what she has been doing on that Ebola Thread. It's like it must be in her job description to be an Internet Shill - once some one posts any GOOD Information, be sure to "BURY IT" with more FEAR-MONGERING!!! That's another reason why she replies to herself so that the GOOD Information gets BURIED!!!

VERY PREDICTABLE!!!

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> How many calories are we talking here 30? 40? For
> someone who is in ketoses, and thereby has all
> their fat cells throughout their whole body
> available to produce glucose - regardless of it
> being inefficient to do so - it seems, to me, to
> be a very negligible waste of energy. For the rest
> of us it's pretty darn hard not to get 30 or 40
> calories of glucose a day so the argument seems
> like splitting hairs - unless I'm missing
> something.

Hi SueZ,

I'll answer to the best of my ability; which I hope will be adequate!

First though: Only about 10% of fat can be used for producing glucose - in a process call gluconeogenesis - whereas 58% of protein produces glucose in that same process. The 10% comes from the glycerol portion of fat, which is kind of like the fat backbone. About 90% of fat never converts to glucose, and this conversion is not necessary for fat to produce energy.

Fats, carbs, and proteins all break down into Acetyl CoA, which is the component that enters the Krebs Cycle and produces energy. Krebs Cycle is a function of the mitochondria.

Glucose is unique in that it can produce energy via another procedure as well, called anaerobic glycolysis, meaning that unlike the Krebs cycle, it doesn't require oxygen and it doesn't require mitochondria. Anaerobic glycolysis doesn't pump out as much energy, but it pumps out energy faster and comes in handy for that reason. Plus it provides energy for cells that lack mitochondria like red blood cells (RBC). So for instance, when we first begin to exercise, Krebs Cycle takes a while to get moving, so we rely on anaerobic glycolysis - glucose fed - to supply that first round of energy and the energy needed to kickstart the Krebs Cycle. Also, say we're on a run, running steady, running mostly from energy supplied by Krebs Cycle, and then we start up a steep hill. Now we're suddenly using maximum oxygen, breathing hard, pumping Krebs Cycle to the max. That's when anaerobic glycolysis kicks in to supply the extra energy we need without using up extra oxygen.

The recommended minimum carbs per day as an average sustainable dietary regime is 130 grams, which is about 520 Calories per day (130g X 4). That's close to about 25% of the caloric ratio for someone consuming 2000 Calories a day.

Multiply protein grams by 4 to get # of Calories.

Multiply fat grams by 9 to get # of Calories.

Specifically, I don't know how many of those 520 carb Calories are required just to maintain the function of RBC, but according to [www.nature.com] , "Although not highly metabolically active, RBC are abundant, resulting in the continual uptake of glucose molecules from the bloodstream." Plus, as mentioned above, only glucose can provide energy through anaerobic glycolysis, which is a very necessary function for overall homeostatic maintenance, and not just during exercise.

If we don't have enough stored glucose, our bodies break down protein to supply the glucose needed. Ketones spare both protein and glucose, but they cannot run anaerobic glycolysis, which is why we move s-l-o-w-l-y when we fast.

Those 130 grams (520 Calories) cited above most likely include glucose as the preferred energy source for the brain, i.e. not during fasting/ketosis. Fat molecules cannot pass through the blood brain barrier, which is why the brain normally relies on glucose for energy. However, as you know, the brain and most other cells can substitute ketones for glucose during fasting or ketogenic diet. Ketones however cannot replace all fuel necessary for the body, and there are some known side effects of ketogenic diet over time, due in part to chronic acidosis. One of the most serious side effects can be acute pancreatitis, which can have some serious hormonal and digestive consequences.

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

This is not an endorsement of a low fat raw food diet. But as you might have noticed, it's also not an endorsement of a low carb raw food diet.

I personally like fats and carbs and proteins; or more specifically, I like food - a lot.

I'm also in favor of an occasional and even regular water fast. It seems to me (and this is just opinion) that whereas ketogenic diet may have the potential to mess with normal homeostasis, a good water fast balances molecular consitituents and thereby assists in homeostasis. That's just a personal perception and not intended at all to be presented as fact.

> It would probably be a different story if red
> blood cells had no mitochondria from the get go
> but they do when they are forming.

Well yes, but energy produced by mitochondria during RBC formation is used for RBC formation.

> Here's a cool photo of red blood cells ejecting
> their nuclei, where their mitochondria, etc, live
> before the cells mature.
>
> [wi.mit.edu]-
> cells-nuke-their-nuclei

Yes, cool photo! And thank you for your presence here on the forum!

"However, numerous professional organizations, including the American Dietetic Association and the American Heart Association, have cautioned against the use of low-carbohydrate diets.9- 12 There are concerns that low-carbohydrate diets lead to abnormal metabolic functioning that may have serious medical consequences, particularly for participants with cardiovascular disease, type 2 diabetes mellitus, dyslipidemia, or hypertension. Specifically, it has been cautioned that low-carbohydrate diets cause accumulation of ketones and may result in abnormal metabolism of insulin and impaired liver and kidney function; in salt and water depletion that may cause postural hypotension, fatigue, constipation, and nephrolithiasis; in excessive consumption of animal proteins and fats that may promote hyperlipidemia; and in higher dietary protein loads that may impair renal function."

Panchito, are you not aware that all of these health concerns regarding ketogenic diets are based upon people who are not healthy and do not have properly functioning organs, or are under specific circumstances (such as sodium deficiency and dehydration)? For healthy individuals, dietary ketosis does not cause acidosis.


"You've done a great job here this afternoon countering the BS posters. Kudos!"

My pleasure

"Unfortunately, you, jt, will never figure it out unless you read it from someone else and I maybe one of the few people who truly understand this complicated process and that's only because I spent over 1,500 hours perfecting a very complicated mathematical process to monitor Caloric Activity."

Maybe you should spend another 1500 hours researching basic human physiology.

"In other words, it's very difficult to give general guidelines for Essential Dietary Carbohydrates because they vary so much from Individual to Individual and from day to day and since we do have an Emergency Back Up System, our so-called Experts are just as CLUELESS as YOU, jt!!!"

Congratulations, you came nowhere near responding to my questions. Looks a lot like the clueless calling other people clueless to derail the conversation from their cluelessness.

[www.jissn.com] - Metabolic Effects of the Very-Low-Carbohydrate Diets: Misunderstood "Villains" of Human Metabolism -


"Diabetic patients know that the detection in their urine of the ketone bodies is a danger signal that their diabetes is poorly controlled. Indeed, in severely uncontrolled diabetes, if the ketone bodies are produced in massive supranormal quantities, they are associated with ketoacidosis [5]. In this life-threatening complication of diabetes mellitus, the acids 3-hydroxybutyric acid and acetoacetic acid are produced rapidly, causing high concentrations of protons, which overwhelm the body's acid-base buffering system. However, during very low carbohydrate intake, the regulated and controlled production of ketone bodies causes a harmless physiological state known as dietary ketosis. In ketosis, the blood pH remains buffered within normal limits [5]. Ketone bodies have effects on insulin and glucagon secretions that potentially contribute to the control of the rate of their own formation because of antilipolytic and lipolytic hormones, respectively [9]. Ketones also have a direct inhibitory effect on lipolysis in adipose tissue"

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [www.jissn.com] - Metabolic
> Effects of the Very-Low-Carbohydrate Diets:
> Misunderstood "Villains" of Human Metabolism -


ja ja. These are pictures of the author of the above link Anssi H Manninen

"ja ja. These are pictures of the author of the above link Anssi H Manninen"

I don't know when you're going to understand that posting pictures of people does absolutely nothing to support whatever you're trying to prove. It reflects very poorly on your behalf. I'm still waiting for your picture, though. Show us how lean, strong, and immaculate you are...

if you cannot see through the pictures nobody can help you. But with the junk you bring here, you are trying to destroy the health of many people.

The author is clearly a con artist. He got a degree or something but he is all for the money (supplements). When you go in a ketogenic diet, he is waiting with the supps because he wrote the study and he "knows" what he is talking about je je. He is a con but a step above. By getting closer a closer to the source of litterature, they manipulate beliefs such as yours (a victim). You are a victim of the person in the pictures above - weak. Go ahead and keep studying ja ja ja

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> if you cannot see through the pictures nobody can
> help you. But with the junk you bring here, you
> are trying to destroy the health of many people.
>
> The author is clearly a con artist. He got a
> degree or something but he is all for the money
> (supplements). When you go in a ketogenic diet, he
> is waiting with the supps because he wrote the
> study and he "knows" what he is talking about je
> je. He is a con but a step above. By getting
> closer a closer to the source of litterature, they
> manipulate beliefs such as yours (a victim). You
> are a victim of the person in the pictures above -
> weak. Go ahead and keep studying ja ja ja


Got anymore delusional statements, ad hominem's, or ja ja ja's? Come on Panchito, show us how amazing and healthy you look.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2014 10:11PM by jtprindl.

jtprindl, anybody can see now who you believe and where your ideas came from. His picture is right above ja ja ja it made my day I'll have a smoothy to celebrate