A `so called' Garden of Eden was a starting point, but not on this Earth. Be greatful for our downfall, for that was the beginning of the birth of the development of true wisdom.

Read the message above in bold over and over and over. It explains where we came from and why we need to be in the mess that we are. Seeing things as bad is only a perception. `So called' bad stuff is only an opportunity to gain experience and wisdom.

You think l am talking all airy fairy here and trying to sound clever? No no no, l am coming from deep within my heart and sharing divine cosmic wisdom they part to me. This stuff is the golden jewels of the finest jewels mankind will ever be given. But, as with anything, the jewels will be thrown away and rejected because wisdom cannot be taught, it can only be grown into...that is why we are in the mess we are, it needs to be that way because golden words of wisdom mean nothing until we are on a vibration level for it to make sense.

The message l pass on will be rejected here, for the world cannot be any other way. Books of wisdom are largely useless in this world because you can't translate wisdom to other people...one can only grow into wisdom.

www.thesproutarian.com



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2014 10:08PM by The Sproutarian Man.

Other dubious Natural Hygiene concepts

Dr Clement says it best in this video below.

1). The instinctual nonsense (fairy land talk) often promoted in the N.H movement. I put it to you that we are not instinctively mature enough or in tune enough to know what is good for us and to know how to listen to our body because most of us are messed up in a messed up world where we don't even know who or what we are. We are basically lost souls wandering a low level planet, so how can we be trusted to listen to our body and have good instinct??? I see so many raw fooders who say to listen to their body who don't appear to be doing so well. See Dr Clement from 30 mins - 32 mins.


2). Dr Clement on the ripeness of fruit from 28:40 - 30:00 mins. This backs up my experience and what farmers have told me.

[www.youtube.com]


Hypocracy in the N.H world of youtube

btw, this video has many adverts. It's quite ironic that so many N.H people love to have adverts in their videos that promote things far from natural or desirable. Hmmm...a bit hypocritical no? So many messed up ideas and theories and practises.

It is interesting how the sproutarians never seem to engage in such low level activities like advertising on their youtube sites...we try not to expose our audiences to the devil's world. It is a light hearted dig, but it makes one think....why would you expose your audiences to car adverts or Mc Donalds etc???...do you have no respect for your audiences?...do you worship the money Gods?...do you want your audiences preached to by big business in order to get more promotion?...do you think so little of your message that you need to do a deal with big business in order to be heard??? Hmmm, pretty dubious.

Having adverts on your youtube certainly is NOT a way to earn one much respect in the raw food world in the eyes of certain people. People promote all these messages of purity etc, but their behavior tells a different story when they pander to big business. That's what l am saying...we are not awakened enough to know what we are doing, that's why we are still happy to invite the preachings of big business on our raw food youtube sites. How can anyone take raw fooders who advertise on their youtube's seriously???...they are mere children with a deluted message because it does not come from a pure heart...it is tainted with dirt from a dark world and the vibration is all messed up. N.H promotors will never succeed in much until they get their act together and walk the talk.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2014 12:05AM by The Sproutarian Man.

Hey Brian,

Here's a concept that seems to have ESCAPED your perceptions, as well as your precious Dr. Clement's perceptions...

[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
Habit 4: Think Win/Win

John,

sometimes it is necessary to rough people up and shake them in order to wake them up. I believe in tough love, but also giving praise when it's worthy. I say to vegans, `well done for taking that big step, but don't stop there because there is more needed to be done, you are only at the start of your journey'. We want to see ourselves and others for what they are, young souls on a journey into seeking wisdom, so we don't want to over praise because we risk young souls getting ego. We need to be tough with young souls, but loving also. If you are too soft with young souls they will fall apart because they don't necessarily have the wisdom to keep strong from temptation and ego can easily over-ride them. The key is to get to a point where you understand one's self so you can see where the ego and temptations fit into the picture.

John...young souls need boot camp, that is part of the low level world we live in. Give the young souls love, but you've got to be very firm with them. Mr Kearns is tough as nails with young souls, and so am l....and if l slip up l bash my head in harder than l do with anyone. I don't tolerate falling into temptation (lies, greed, ego etc), and if l fail l smash myself so hard (call myself an unevolved loser and deluded in the devils spell) that it is too painful to want to do it again....that is how we move forward towards perfection....we realise the low level that we are by acknowledging ourself at our lowest level (we don't look at our best selves, we always look at our worst selves because that is the real level of our evolvement because it shows what we are still capable of). We never want to excuse dubious and bad behaviour, we want to come down very hard on such things so it gets to a point where it is too painful to be like that and all we want to do is behave honourably and be perfect.

And to say that no-one is perfect is satanism also. That is saying that the human race has no hope and is a loser. But NO....we all have a pineal gland and are connected to the perfection of the creator, so we can all be perfect like the Buddha or Jesus etc. And you never worship these middle men, for they are us and made by the creator also. They have a connection to the higher power like we do,so you never go through middle men because that is worshipping false Gods, and that is the devils work. I think l have known one man who was perfect..he was at least a living saint and many think he was also a buddha...has not slept in a bed for over 12 years and is almost breatharian and likely to have extreme powers that come along with saint/buddha-hood.

John...be tough on people, but also pour out your love to them. Leave people under no illusions. This is only the start of the great journey and lets let people know this.

Replacing historical events - apes evolved from animals - with mystical stories made inside the head to justify eating sprouts, is not a good argument. As an animal that lives inside an ecosystem, man must support to its biological role in the system. Eating fruits has always been there. Fruit grows free, no work, no tending needed. Sprouts are product of the industrial revolution. In order to eat sprouts, you need seed farmers, farm product suppliers, internet, selling portals, delivery companies, electricity (for fans, etc), all short of pans, trays, etc., timing, scheduling, processing, fresh water and sewer pipes, etc. That does not sound like a God plan! It sounds more like a complex process of an industrialized society. If you study anthropology from the beginning and the evolution of the modern human society, you will come across foraging. What is there to forage other than fruits and plants! You will never find anybody foraging for sprouts because sprouting is a modern technology/fad that requires the support of a complex society for its existence. You cannot now come along and create a god theory to explain sprouts. It is like explaining the origin of a playstation-III as a gift from the gods. Hey god put the paystation for me to play!

"Sprouts are product of the industrial revolution."

Oh. My. God.

that's right. Sprouting is a technology derived from the industrial revolution because without it, it would not exist. It is like calling the medical usage of embrionic stem cells natural. Sure, the special cells themselves are natural, but it requires the technology of processing, tubes, computers, etc.

"Sprouting is a technology derived from the industrial revolution because without it, it would not exist."

Sprouting is a natural process that happens everywhere in the world with anything that comes from a seed, including fruit trees. Sprouting doesn't require any special technology, it requires soil and water.

you are talking about hundreds/thousands of seeds per meal! it is not natural and the meal requires the technologies mentioned above. Tell me how you get the thousands (buckets loads) of seeds delivered to your house. Where do they come from? The assumed technologies you use are not natural. They come from a modern/industrialized society. No society means no buckets of seeds. got it?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2014 03:12AM by Panchito.

"you are talking about hundreds/thousands of seeds per meal!"

What do you think you're doing when you eat berries?

"it is not natural and the meal requires the technologies mentioned above."

So do grocery stores which is where you buy all of your food.

Read again. The evolution of humanity derives from foraging (picking fruits/plants). Foraging predates the agriculture revolution.


where you purchase the seeds from? a website. the website gets them from a supplier, seed farmer, etc. There is a chain!

How do you get the seeds to your house? a delivery company (truck) that uses modern roads, planes, etc., and the truck itself.

How do you process the seeds? with technologies that you assume are everywhere like clean water and sewage piping from a municiplaity, electricity, scheduling with clocks, etc.

How did you learn to use these technologies? from books/internet, not from god.

"The evolution of humanity derives from foraging (picking fruits/plants). Foraging predates the agriculture revolution."

Okay? And this means people who sprout cannot benefit from modern-day technology? You're typing on a computer and you get all of your food from a grocery store, where can you find these two things out in nature?

TSM arguments that sprouting was told to him by high powers (gods from maybe other planets). And I just showed you how it was not so. Sprouting arises from the complexity of a modern industrialized society. It exists due to artificial technologies that you assume are natural because the product is based on seeds. But the processing is far from natural. It does not come from talking to god as TSM claims. I also demonstrated that eating fruit is natural because it is recorded in history that man was a forager. Foraging is what other animals do. They move from place to place foraging food (fruits/plants). Foraging does not require a god for its explanation in order to be understood.

To learn more about foraging: [en.wikipedia.org]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2014 03:38AM by Panchito.

Panchito wrote:

<<<TSM arguments that sprouting was told to him by high powers (gods from maybe other planets).>>>

I am convinced more than ever before that TSM/Brian IS FULL OF HOT AIR!!!

TSM/Brian wrote:

<<<When people start quoting satanic texts and making assumptions that the world was once a perfect paradise,that is when we run into trouble and buy into the carefully crafted illusion from the devil. Humans have been told to worship middle men as Gods...BIG MISTAKE!!!>>>

It is obvious that you did NOT even read the article because it was about Raw Veganism and it pointed out how Paul Infiltrated the Essene Movement to bring it down, much like you appear to be Infiltrating the Raw Food Movement with your Absurd Sproutarian Diet knowing that it has NO chance of catching on.

As far as the “satanic texts,” it is YOU who are promoting Satanism by pushing all of your New Age/New World Order Crap that insists that we must SUFFER to GROW!!!

BULL SH!T!!!!!!!!!

THeSt0rm said it best in this post:

[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
Re: Humans : Self Domesticated Animals - Sickness
Posted by: THeSt0rm
Date: August 05, 2013 11:16PM

I’m sorry but I cannot take much of the new age stuff too seriously. Esp. when it comes to these higher/lower levels, why people are suffering etc. It seems like I'd have to give up my power, to accept the suffering we all go through as being purposeful. I don’t agree with it.

I don't rationalize at least much of the suffering people go through as being with the purpose to help them "grow".

When people do something evil to another, they don't do it with the intent to help the other person grow. They do it to destroy him/her and nothing else.

This isn't 'reality' here, we're not living in tribes with rites of passages where we'd have to go through an obstacle course to prove ourselves worthy. This life is not even real, so what "growth" do we require? Why do I have to give in to the lie that people have to suffer? So what they can become trapped into reincarnation cycles to pay off 'karmas' given to them by 'higher' dieties that abuse their power?

This stuff just seems to me like Lucis Trust and the United Nations / Agenda 21.

The spiritual doctrine devised by the illuminati for their "new age" for their "new world order".

And it's all apathetic too like, people don't really care for each other, they'll just say "that's your karma, you're being negative, you're not good enough/high level enough, it's all in your mind". Well that's one aspect of it.

If I'm wrong then forgive me.
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]


<<<Do you really think the Earth was once a high level place for high level beings and a paradise?>>>

Yes, Earth was once a Paradise before we started Cooking our Food, but there are NO “high level beings” just like there are NO “low level beings”!!!

That’s all part of the Bull Crap that the Rulers of the World want us to believe so we will accept our suffering as if it is supposed to serve a purpose and help us grow.

BULL SH!T!!!!!!!!!

<<<A `so called' Garden of Eden was a starting point, but not on this Earth.>>>

BULL SH!T!!!!!!!!!

Every Culture on this Planet refers to a Golden Age and the Fall of Mankind and it is you have been deceived and are now trying to deceive as many lost souls as you can.

[www.newdawnmagazine.com]
Back to Paradise
By Richard Heinberg

…

At lectures and in discussions I still often encounter the idea that it’s psychologically, politically, or philosophically wrongheaded to look back to an imaginary time in the past when life was somehow better; that if we are to imagine any paradise at all, we should locate it in the future, not the past. However, it occurs to me that this way of thinking is very much conditioned by modernism. The delegitimisation of the paradise myth was essential to the purposes of industrial civilisation, which substituted for the universal, ancient belief in a lost Golden Age the idea of brutish origins and continual progress. Among traditional peoples, the paradise myth appears to implant a feeling of security and stability; it is perhaps the cultural equivalent of the memory of loving parents and a happy childhood. The evolution-from-barbarism myth, on the other hand, imparts a sense of primal insecurity, which well serves the purposes of a civilisation that must continually disrupt existing social bonds in order to rebuild society in a way that serves the interests of a wealthy elite.

…
[www.newdawnmagazine.com]

<<<Be greatful for our downfall, for that was the beginning of the birth of the development of true wisdom.>>>

Once again, I am convinced more than ever before that YOU ARE FULL OF HOT AIR!!!

The idea that we are supposed to SUFFER in order to GROW smacks of Satanism, which is what the Rulers of the World believe in and want all of us to believe in!

The fact that you are promoting the most Extreme of all Versions of Raw Food (where we have to spend a HUGE amount of time preparing Foods that are NOT even that appealing and has NO threat of catching on to Wake Up the Masses) and the fact that you are promoting the same Religion as the Rulers of the World (Satanism) has, once again, got me wondering whether you are extremely confused or just down right evil.

In some ways, you remind me of Alex Jones - you are too smart and too informed to be that DUMB!!!

AMEN! When I read TSM's recent posts I didn't even know where to start...Baffling. Luciferian planet my ass, that is the most hopeless, depressed logic I have ever read.

(Whatever "higher" beings your getting your info from, I'd hang up on them pronto!)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2014 11:22PM by NuNativs.

Science verifies nothing of the sort. One hellofa full moon thread though.

I will not get started on ancient texts and satanism because l would be tempted to talk all day.

So many humans live in the illusion, they still believe in the Garden of Eden and what is written in highly questionable books/texts, and they still believe humans are frugivores. I am so disappointed and fully understand why spiritual masters become recluses, leave civilisation and go into the wild to meditate.

As l have said...wisdom cannot be taught, it must be grown into.

I shall get back to the mundane talk on diet and leave the big boy talk to folks who are on the level and can see through the illusions. We really are like fish in a bowl....truth seekers are just as asleep as anyone.

www.thesproutarian.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2014 02:13AM by The Sproutarian Man.

<<<So many humans live in the illusion, they still believe in the Garden of Eden>>>

Every Culture on this Planet makes reference to a Golden Age!!!

They're NOT referring to some mythical "Garden of Eden" - they're referring to a time and a place where we didn't have any Problems that were 100% Within our Control.

In other words, there are No Rulers in Paradise and that's why the Powers that be want us to believe that such a time and place does NOT and did NOT exist.

[www.newdawnmagazine.com]
Back to Paradise
By Richard Heinberg

…

At lectures and in discussions I still often encounter the idea that it’s psychologically, politically, or philosophically wrongheaded to look back to an imaginary time in the past when life was somehow better; that if we are to imagine any paradise at all, we should locate it in the future, not the past. However, it occurs to me that this way of thinking is very much conditioned by modernism. The delegitimisation of the paradise myth was essential to the purposes of industrial civilisation, which substituted for the universal, ancient belief in a lost Golden Age the idea of brutish origins and continual progress. Among traditional peoples, the paradise myth appears to implant a feeling of security and stability; it is perhaps the cultural equivalent of the memory of loving parents and a happy childhood. The evolution-from-barbarism myth, on the other hand, imparts a sense of primal insecurity, which well serves the purposes of a civilisation that must continually disrupt existing social bonds in order to rebuild society in a way that serves the interests of a wealthy elite.

…
[www.newdawnmagazine.com]

The garden of Eden applies to the multi universe and has nothing to do with Earth. The stuff written in books is carefully controlled disinfo.

Look...l don't care what you believe.If you want to believe what they tell you in books that is your choice.

Remember - who wrote the books, and who controlled the information flow? Most of the people who would have been able to write were the rulers in the old days (most peasants would have been illiterate), and as we know the rulers have agendas. The people who control the information have made sure the most important info which gives us our power is kept away from public view. Any secret texts will find their way into hands that will ensure it never is seen by the public IF it reveals very important information that gives mankind true power.

Folks...we have been given the straps and l know for certain that various important information has been purposely kept from us to ensure we worship a false system and false Gods. This world will continue to be a prison planet for many because people are worshipping satanism and our jailers and they have no idea they are doing so....people worship the illusion that they believe to be the story of the human race.

Do people seriously think the rulers are going to let us know the real story and how we can seize our powers? The reality is completely different to what these sacret texts explain it...it's mainly been twisted and you will continue to pay the price as a fish in a bowl. I have tried to give extremely important input here, and these posts are my finest posts written at this forum.

If you don't believe a word l say...l don't care. Maybe Dr Doug would be a good source of info...people say he knows a LOT about these things and that we are frugivores also.

People can't handle the truth, and that is why the planet is a mess and things go wrong. If you worship satanic systems you are never going to get free until you wake up...you will continue to incur karma and be at the mercy of darkness until you see the light.

www.thesproutarian.com



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2014 03:34AM by The Sproutarian Man.

There is no need to argue. If you like a sproutarian diet, then follow it. If you like a fruit diet, then follow it. No need to try to convince others that they MUST follow a sproutarian diet, or they MUST follow a fruit diet. If you are really content with what you are doing, then you will be content with what others are doing too. This is a RAW food forum, which encompasses all raw diets. We could be enjoying each other company, instead of trying to prove to others that WE are right. We are a minority, right? What do you think is the best investment of your time? Be kind.

As far as the science, it is well established by the mainstream science, that humans have frugivorous ancestry. It is also well established that humans ate all sorts of things in their history.


RawGosia channel
RawGosia streams

"I estimate that in some years, the 45 chimpanzees of the main study community at Gombe kill and consume more than 1500 pounds of prey animals of all species. This is far more than most previous estimates of the weight of live animals eaten by chimpanzees."...


"Large canine teeth are not necessarily important for carnivory; chimpanzees do not use their canine teeth to capture adult colobus; rather, they grab the prey and flail it to death on the ground or against a tree limb.The chimpanzees' superb climbing ability is not essential for hunting monkeys either; once the prey is cornered in an isolated tree crown, group cooperation at driving the monkeys from one hunter to another would have been a quite efficient killing technique. "...


"Many researchers feel sure that they did, though the amount and the frequency of meat-eating are open to conjecture. Blumenschine (1987), for example, showed that a scavenging niche was probably available to early hominids during the Pliocene period, and Marean (1989) reasoned that the presence of saber-toothed cats meant there was a ready supply of large ungulate carcasses from which flesh could be gleaned."...


[www-bcf.usc.edu]

The system was carefully created by the rulers so people know next to nothing about why the world is like it is and what we are and where we come from. We are not supposed to know anything important, and we don't know anything important because most of us are fish in a bowl. And the system feeds us books to shape the way they want us to think and to give us beliefs and faith. Having beliefs and faith is the product of people who know nothing.

Sorry folks, the books are not going to tell you the important stuff. When you have faith and beleifs you are vulnerable to disinfo. The last thing `they' want is for people to know what is going on. Got to keep the slaves in the dark so heir remains powerless.

Humans have been trained to believe much of what they read, that is why they are easy to control and manipulate. The human race is basically helpless because heir knows nothing.

I've been saying this for a long time...`THROW THE STINKING BOOKS AWAY!!!' Much of the human race can't handle books because they don't realise how they are used as disinfo and mind manipulation tools and out us in the illusionary world of a manmade system.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2014 07:45AM by The Sproutarian Man.

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The system was carefully created by the rulers so
> people know next to nothing about why the world is
> like it is and what we are and where we come from.
> We are not supposed to know anything important,
> and we don't know anything important because most
> of us are fish in a bowl. And the system feeds us
> books to shape the way they want us to think and
> to give us beliefs and faith. Having beliefs and
> faith is the product of people who know nothing.
>
> Sorry folks, the books are not going to tell you
> the important stuff. When you have faith and
> beleifs you are vulnerable to disinfo. The last
> thing `they' want is for people to know what is
> going on. Got to keep the slaves in the dark so
> heir remains powerless.
>
> Humans have been trained to believe much of what
> they read, that is why they are easy to control
> and manipulate. The human race is basically
> helpless because heir knows nothing.
>
> I've been saying this for a long time...`THROW THE
> STINKING BOOKS AWAY!!!' Much of the human race
> can't handle books because they don't realise how
> they are used as disinfo and mind manipulation
> tools and out us in the illusionary world of a
> manmade system.

So we should all throw books away and just listen to what you say? You don't see anything inconsistent, wrong, or absurd with this or with other glaring facts like you have said you are preparing to order about 12 books as we speak? I do.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2014 11:36AM by SueZ.

rawgosia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> As far as the science, it is well established by
> the mainstream science, that humans have
> frugivorous ancestry. It is also well established
> that humans ate all sorts of things in their
> history.

It is well established that human ancestry ate fruit as did a lot of non- human ancestry that are not labeled frugivors. The label "frugavore" is meaningless without clear definitions.

TSM,your posts are highly interesting.Concerning the diat,there is no doubt that the sprouterian diat is more nutritious than a fruit diat,although I do think that fruit should be used in severe illnesses where the lymph system is involved for example tumours etc. Now about spirituality,I would ask you to keep posting your wisdom even though members like John think that you are from the dark side.That is complete BS.Your information keeps me on the forum,even though I normally do not post at all.I just wanted to chime in and encourage you to keep posting,especially concerning spirituality.It does not matter if members on the forum attack you verbally. Your posts are very fascinating and it would be amazing if you would keep sharing your knowledge.

TSM wrote:
"
The garden of Eden applies to the multi universe and has nothing to do with Earth" & "People can't handle the truth, and that is why the planet is a mess and things go wrong."

The reason this planet is a mess is that people don't value physical Life as the ultimate experience. The problem being that you are advocating distractions like meditation, believing in imaginary multi verses etc. You are surrounded by infinity in every direction, why do you need to invent fabrications that there is "more"?

Like Christians and other religous diversions, you are too busy trying to get into some mythical "heaven" than to realize WE are in potential heaven right here and now. The reason we don't have Paradise on Earth is because WE have forgotten who WE are. Collectively WE ARE god sent by the Sun/Light and ultimately the stewards and caretakers of a Paradise Earth. That's OUR real identity and job here. We are solar beings inpregnated with a collective dream and that dream is Paradise on Earth and the conquering of death.

Here's something esoteric, the Sun/Light is actually listening to us as that is ultimately what we are, thus the changes in weather across the globe for as our conflict between us increases the Sun/Light develops sunspots that affect the weather. OUR collective thoughts are in a feedback loop with Sun/Light.

"An Edgar Cayce reading tells us that humankind’s state of consciousness on Earth can influence sun spot activity. Below are excerpts from this reading (5757-1)."

"…do ye wonder then that there become reflected upon even the face of the sun those turmoils and strifes that have been and that are the sin of man?"

Those who have a vested interest in "checking out" of this "prison planet" have no interest in creating Paradise, physical longevity and physical immortality. In my opinion, you then lead people astray and prevent the birth of what could be a new golden age of total peace and prosperity for all.

"If you leave a body behind, you must come back..."
Babaji

The Sproutarian Man Wrote (in varied posts on this thread):
-------------------------------------------------------
>`So called' bad stuff
> is only an opportunity to gain experience and
> wisdom.

I'm open to that belief, just because it brings some sense of compassion into an explanation for why bad things happen. But of course, I wouldn't know this for sure. To me, it would fall under the category of a personal "belief".

>I don't promote the sproutarian diet because l want to be bias, l promote it because the higher powers told me 20 years ago to bring it to the world in a special package that is so exciting that it has the potential to change the world in a way that boggles minds. I am not the guru or the star for this diet...l am only the mere messenger delivering what they told me to all those years ago. It's not my information...it is THERE information, and they chose me to sell the package and get others doing so too. Dr Brian is a messenger, Vik is a messenger, Dr Ann was a messenger...we all have our angles to promote it. We are all servants of the higher powers because we sproutarians deliver the message `they' want us too.<

Who is "they"?

>If we are going to be taken seriously as vegans, we need to be able to properly answer these questions and use proper logic when having a discussion.<

I agree.

>...heir must interact and try new things...heir must create good and bad experiences so heir learns right from wrong and eventually develops wisdom through complex interactions. Heir must live in a greedy world to learn not to be greedy, heir must live with temptation in order to resist it. Heir must live among the muck and imperfection in order to rise to perfection.

I think I agree very much, but why do you often use the word "heir" when referring to the human race?

>Fruit is often trucked into locations and served in shops non fresh and arguably not properly ripe, and NO fruits and vegetables served in shops or at farmers markets are natural either because the plants are prone to post harvest losses and cellular death (see the food N.H people buy in youtube videos for proof of greens undergoing cellular death).<

Perhaps true, but fruit is also often eaten fresh and grown locally. What do you think about people eating fresh fruit harvested locally (wild or otherwise)? And what do you think about eating fruit in tropical environments where many delicious fruits grow wild and are the foods most immediately available when a person is hungry?

What do you think about eating greens fresh from the garden?

>I would love to accept the idea that we are frugivores, but l am not going to accept such an idea when everything runs contrary to such an idea.<

I guess first, there should be an agreed-upon definition of the word "frugivore". According to Wikipedia, "a 'frugivore' is a fruit eater. It can be any type of herbivore or omnivore where fruit is a preferred food type. Because approximately 20% of all mammalian herbivores also eat fruit, frugivory is considered to be common among mammals." (Definition is referenced from Danell, K. and R. Bergstrom. 2002. Mammalian herbivory in terrestrial environments.in C. M. Herrera and O. Pellmyr, editors. Plant-Animal Interactions. Blackwell Publishing, Oxford, UK.)

Is this the definition of "frugivore" you had in mind, Sproutarian Man? With this definition in mind, why do you think people have no hair, and when naked, are therefore more comfortable in a year-round warm environment where fruit is most abundant and available?

>Anyone who does deep meditation will know we are not evolved from primates and will know we are not frugivores either..."<

Some people believe the purpose of deep meditation is to develop spirituality, rather than to deliver a history of the planet and a knowledge of events. For example, will deep meditation tell you what color hair I have? If meditation can not deliver to you an accurate image of all things of material substance in the present, would meditation do this for things of material substance in the past?

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The system was carefully created by the rulers
> so
> > people know next to nothing about why the world
> is
> > like it is and what we are and where we come
> from.
> > We are not supposed to know anything important,
> > and we don't know anything important because
> most
> > of us are fish in a bowl. And the system feeds
> us
> > books to shape the way they want us to think
> and
> > to give us beliefs and faith. Having beliefs
> and
> > faith is the product of people who know nothing.
>
> >
> > Sorry folks, the books are not going to tell
> you
> > the important stuff. When you have faith and
> > beleifs you are vulnerable to disinfo. The last
> > thing `they' want is for people to know what is
> > going on. Got to keep the slaves in the dark so
> > heir remains powerless.
> >
> > Humans have been trained to believe much of
> what
> > they read, that is why they are easy to control
> > and manipulate. The human race is basically
> > helpless because heir knows nothing.
> >
> > I've been saying this for a long time...`THROW
> THE
> > STINKING BOOKS AWAY!!!' Much of the human race
> > can't handle books because they don't realise
> how
> > they are used as disinfo and mind manipulation
> > tools and out us in the illusionary world of a
> > manmade system.
>
> So we should all throw books away and just listen
> to what you say? You don't see anything
> inconsistent, wrong, or absurd with this or with
> other glaring facts like you have said you are
> preparing to order about 12 books as we speak? I
> do.

Suez, it is important to see books for what they are and to be able to interpret them in context.....to be able to sought fact from theory, AND to be able to sought manmade fact from cosmic truth. Books can be good in the right person's hands, but they are very destructive in the wrong person's hands.

When l read l book l am seriously on guard because they can bite you at a moments notice if you are not careful.

I don't say to start listening to me, l say to start questioning things more and to use your inbuilt antenna to try and work out what's going on. I don'tsee much evidence of this occuring...humans are so easily deceived.

suncloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Who is "they"?

I always refer to "they" as the powers. In this context it is the good higher power. In other contexts it can be the dark powers.


> but why do you often
> use the word "heir" when referring to the human
> race?

Heir is a combination of him and her.

I might refer to a member's post as heir's post, l do this because l don't know whether they are male or female.

I may sometimes refer to the higher power as heir also to put it into a lower level human context of an illusion.



> Perhaps true, but fruit is also often eaten fresh
> and grown locally. What do you think about people
> eating fresh fruit harvested locally (wild or
> otherwise)?

Fruit eaten from the local area within the day is o.k, none-the-less, one is best to limit it's consumption and concentrate on the more nutritious foods in this day and age. Farmers market fruit from the area is not so good and best avoided imo.

In the old days of low radiation, stress and pollution l could see fruit serving as a meal, but these days l would strongly advise fruit as being a snack to most people and strongly advising that we eat FRESH highly nutritious foods with high anti oxidant, phytochemicals, vitamin, mineral and anti inflammatory proeprties. I don't see many vegan diets strong in all those areas.

There is nothing wrong with eating fruit, just eat it FRESH and eat it ripe and eat lots of other nutritious foods to go around it. AND...if you do want to eat fruit all the day l recommend lots of FRESH green juices, algaes, seaweeds and sprouted seeds to try and balance it out, BUT in my experience it is very difficult to balance the high fruit diet out and the damage has been done. I am not sure what the damage is and if it applies to everyone, but in my experience the damage from too much fruit effects the mind, AND when l observe fruitarian types l often see disturbed minds by observing their behaviours. NOW...interestingly enough, many people also report this and last night Dan The Man also said this about fruitarian types and attitude issues. I am convinced it is a problem and l certainly am not imagining this because so many report it. Some people like GFosia do well on higher fruit...she is calm and has a good mind, but l see many who don't appear to do so well, and it tells me that high fruit diets are not good for many people. Is the problem the environment and modern man and the hybrid fruit itself???...l don't know, but l do see a big problem.



>And what do you think about eating
> fruit in tropical environments where many
> delicious fruits grow wild and are the foods most
> immediately available when a person is hungry?


It's hard to be sure on this, l would tend to think bigger allowances can be made IF the person is not living a stressful lifestyle, has a balanced mind and also eats other foods.



>
> What do you think about eating greens fresh from
> the garden?

That is good. In my experience the fresh green vegetables still don't compare to sprouts in terms of energy/power, but some green vegetable is o.k if you enjoy the milder tastes. I personally avoid vegetables unless they are sprouted because they don't do anything to lift me. To me...in my strictest mode, l see green vegetables as more a flavour enhancer and party food for beginner raw fooders and there are far more powerful greens to be had, and in this day and age we want to be eating high antioxidant phytochgemical greens and high enzyme greens, and the best foods containing these are green sprouts. I am of the Brian Clement view that green vegetrables are greatly inferior to green sprouts, and my experience proves this to me beyond a doubt.

Eventhough l say to strictly limit fruit, l don't have the same issues with vegetables. Still,if you are a purist it is best to limit those too imo.


>
> >I would love to accept the idea that we are
> frugivores, but l am not going to accept such an
> idea when everything runs contrary to such an
> idea.<
>
> I guess first, there should be an agreed-upon
> definition of the word "frugivore". According to
> Wikipedia, "a 'frugivore' is a fruit eater. It can
> be any type of herbivore or omnivore where fruit
> is a preferred food type. Because approximately
> 20% of all mammalian herbivores also eat fruit,
> frugivory is considered to be common among
> mammals." (Definition is referenced from Danell,
> K. and R. Bergstrom. 2002. Mammalian herbivory in
> terrestrial environments.in C. M. Herrera and O.
> Pellmyr, editors. Plant-Animal Interactions.
> Blackwell Publishing, Oxford, UK.)
>
> Is this the definition of "frugivore" you had in
> mind, Sproutarian Man? With this definition in
> mind, why do you think people have no hair, and
> when naked, are therefore more comfortable in a
> year-round warm environment where fruit is most
> abundant and available?


Frigivore to me means mainly a fruit eater.

Good question about the no hair idea...it could mean many things. It could mean we are designed to live in the tropics, but how relevant is this idea??? We also have brains that tell us to wear clothes from animal skins etc. Also, eat ceratin foods and get detoxed and you don't feel the colder climates near as much. I believe much of the world has had the gift of fire from the beginning that was passed onto us from the aliens.

I think there have been various Earth ages and the idea we lived in one part of the world seems silly manmade science talk. I believe much of the evidence and secrets of past societies on Earth have been wiped out or destroyed many times over the ages by Earth events. Some people were probably very primitive cavemen types, but l also believe there have been many advanced civilisations on Earth also.

>
> >Anyone who does deep meditation will know we are
> not evolved from primates and will know we are not
> frugivores either..."<
>
> Some people believe the purpose of deep meditation
> is to develop spirituality, rather than to deliver
> a history of the planet and a knowledge of events.
> For example, will deep meditation tell you what
> color hair I have? If meditation can not deliver
> to you an accurate image of all things of material
> substance in the present, would meditation do this
> for things of material substance in the past?


Meditation can do many things, but the key is to use it to develop wisdom and to elevate oneself. Using it to gain info on the Earth and to talk to aliens etc is a waste of time because it detracts from the important issues of using the light to create wisdom. That is the problem if we meet aliens and astral beings...they are a distraction....they can tell us lots of things, but we still need a rememdy. AND...the human race is usually not in the position to utilise and appreciate a remedy, so talking to aliens and astral beings is usually pretty silly. Best to ignore the visions if you can and tell the astral folks/aliens to `get lost'....focus on the light and get rid of the distractions. Getting visions and going to other planets/dimentions etc is only low level stuff, so get over it and focus on the light and sound and develop your level.

Btw...most meditation will not elevate oneself to a higher level because all most meditations will do is develop wisdom only. If you speak to meditators you will notice that they still worship the money God, lie, have ego etc....that is because they only develop the pineal gland and don't elevate the sound frequencies. I would a,so advise most people to stop meditating because it is dangerous because people have not been taught how to navigate the cosmos...the problem is that people who meditate will almost certainly be interfered with by astral entities up to no good, so this means most people will get false visions, false predictions will be given and people who contact loved ones will be communicating with imposters instead. You will find that meditators may be indoctrinated with satanism to keep them lying, greedy and full of lust etc...and basically the meditation they do will be all a lie and deception. That is why so many who meditate all their lives don't evolve and higher...they may feel better but they are no more evolved than anyone else. Meditation can be dangerous so it is best to be careful if one is not trained by a proper spiritual master....we don't know the cosmos like the masters so we should not be so arrogant to think we can do it alone....we need to be armed with special tools to navigate the cosmos.

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SueZ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > The system was carefully created by the
> rulers
> > so
> > > people know next to nothing about why the
> world
> > is
> > > like it is and what we are and where we come
> > from.
> > > We are not supposed to know anything
> important,
> > > and we don't know anything important because
> > most
> > > of us are fish in a bowl. And the system
> feeds
> > us
> > > books to shape the way they want us to think
> > and
> > > to give us beliefs and faith. Having beliefs
> > and
> > > faith is the product of people who know
> nothing.
> >
> > >
> > > Sorry folks, the books are not going to tell
> > you
> > > the important stuff. When you have faith and
> > > beleifs you are vulnerable to disinfo. The
> last
> > > thing `they' want is for people to know what
> is
> > > going on. Got to keep the slaves in the dark
> so
> > > heir remains powerless.
> > >
> > > Humans have been trained to believe much of
> > what
> > > they read, that is why they are easy to
> control
> > > and manipulate. The human race is basically
> > > helpless because heir knows nothing.
> > >
> > > I've been saying this for a long
> time...`THROW
> > THE
> > > STINKING BOOKS AWAY!!!' Much of the human
> race
> > > can't handle books because they don't realise
> > how
> > > they are used as disinfo and mind
> manipulation
> > > tools and out us in the illusionary world of
> a
> > > manmade system.
> >
> > So we should all throw books away and just
> listen
> > to what you say? You don't see anything
> > inconsistent, wrong, or absurd with this or
> with
> > other glaring facts like you have said you are
> > preparing to order about 12 books as we speak?
> I
> > do.
>
> Suez, it is important to see books for what they
> are and to be able to interpret them in
> context.....to be able to sought fact from theory,
> AND to be able to sought manmade fact from cosmic
> truth. Books can be good in the right person's
> hands, but they are very destructive in the wrong
> person's hands.


So books are more ok in your hands than in most of our hands because you are much further along in seeing and understanding truth than we are and have the ability, which we lack, to interpret them in context and are thus, from your vantage point, doing us a favor in warning us to throw books away.



> I don't say to start listening to me, l say to
> start questioning things more and to use your
> inbuilt antenna to try and work out what's going
> on.I don't see much evidence of this
> occuring...humans are so easily deceived.


Actually it is you who seem to be most easily deceived, and over and over, IMO. You like what you read of some guru or other, put them up on a high pedestal lavishly praising them, then become disappointed when you learn more and loudly tear them off of the pedestal you built and put them on.

Maybe if you distance yourself more in the first place, and not try so hard to find some guru or other to whole heartedly believe in, you can stop putting yourself through all the drama resulting from fooling yourself about people in the first place.