SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> suncloud Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I like sprouted lentils, and they don't give me
> > gas at all. However, if they give gas to
> someone
> > else, or if someone else doesn't like them, I
> > would certainly not suggest or recommend that
> they
> > eat them.
> >
> > The door swings both ways. I would also
> reserve
> > the right for myself and others to eat what
> they
> > like and makes them feel good. I've been a raw
> > vegan for a very long time - over 28 years.
> What
> > works for me is a variety of foods. If this
> > works for me, it might work for others.
> >
> > Over the years, I've seen many, many people who
> > try very hard but have never been able to
> > consistently maintain raw vegan diets that
> > severely restrict whole categories of raw vegan
> > foods. And yet often, these are the very same
> > people who are absolutely certain they know
> > exactly what they and everyone else should eat.
> >
> > For myself, I don't eat everything every day,
> Lord
> > knows. But I allow myself to eat the raw vegan
> > foods I like, when I like them, and that feel
> > good. That's how I stay raw. If someone
> else's
> > strategy works well for them, that's fine too.
> > Just say so. No need to tell everyone else
> what
> > to eat.
> >
> > I'm not impressed by "gurus" or "teachers" with
> > phony or zero credentials who tell everyone
> else
> > what they should or should not eat. Brenda
> Davis
> > RD is a long term vegan with real credentials
> and
> > an established record for working very hard to
> > save animals and preserve the environment by
> > bringing veganism into the mainstream - for
> both
> > healthy people and also for those who suffer
> from
> > debilitating conditions. I'm very pleased that
> > people like Brenda Davis RD are beginning to
> throw
> > their hats into the raw food ring. There's
> > nothing wrong with widening the scope of the
> > discussion to include what these people have to
> > say.
> >
> >
> __________________________________________________
>
> > ___________
> >
> > SueZ wrote:
> >
> > "Suncloud, as things stand now, aren't the hemp
> > seeds available for sale (in the USA at least)
> > mostly irradiated or otherwise rendered not
> > viable? To me they taste abysmal and dead."
> >
> > I appreciate your question and comments SueZ
> (as
> > always).
> >
> > Most commercial hemp seed is labeled "organic".
>
> >
> > In the U.S., it's illegal to label a product
> > "organic" if it's been irradiated. I know this
> as
> > the former treasurer for Hawaii Organic Farmers
> > Association (HOFA) during the years when
> federal
> > rules for "organic" were being propagated, and
> as
> > a former certified organic farmer myself.
> >
> > Commercial hemp seeds are shelled and cannot be
> > sprouted. After reading your post SueZ, I
> wanted
> > to know more, so I called the company that
> sells
> > the Ojio hemp seeds I have in my refrigerator.
> > The representative checked and then told me the
> > seeds lose their ability to sprout due to
> losing
> > their shells. He also told me that the
> shelling
> > process does not heat the seeds, and that the
> > seeds are never exposed to heat. They are raw.
> >
> > Anyway, that's what he said; and he did spend
> some
> > time checking. In my experience, the
> commercial
> > hemp seeds are better quality now than
> previously,
> > when they were first sold and seemed to go
> rancid
> > easily. I'm assuming they're now more
> > appropriately packaged and stored.
> >
> > I do know the hemp seeds don't seem to bother
> me
> > personally. On the other hand, I really cannot
> > eat packaged organic seeds (pumpkin, sunflower,
> > etc.) that claim to be sprouted, then dried.
> > Cannot. My system is very sensitive, and these
> > just kill me.
>
> Suncloud, I have the same problem with packaged
> seeds that claim to be sprouted and dried that you
> do in addition to having a problem with hemp
> seeds. Maybe they all taste abysmal and dead to me
> because for all practice purposes they are.
>
> Maybe those of us with very sensitive systems are
> sensing that these non viable things are not all
> they are cracked up to be as a food source. Maybe
> our bodies are letting us know that these dead
> things not only have been drained of their taste
> but are no longer even good for us in their
> condition. It's very possible.


I also have that same abysmal/dead problem with seeds and nuts I've soaked, sprouted, and dehydrated myself. There seems to be a distinction to be drawn between viable seeds and nuts vs. rendered unviable ones as a food source.

Quote

I also have that same abysmal/dead problem with seeds and nuts I've soaked, sprouted, and dehydrated myself. There seems to be a distinction to be drawn between viable seeds and nuts vs. rendered unviable ones as a food source.

I am strongly against dehydrated foods, and in my opinion they do indeed have much of the life force drained from them. They may be raw, but that does not make them healthy fare.

Living Food Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I also have that same abysmal/dead problem with
> seeds and nuts I've soaked, sprouted, and
> dehydrated myself. There seems to be a distinction
> to be drawn between viable seeds and nuts vs.
> rendered unviable ones as a food source.
>
> I am strongly against dehydrated foods, and in my
> opinion they do indeed have much of the life force
> drained from them. They may be raw, but that does
> not make them healthy fare.

Oops, I'm talking about viable seeds and nuts being killed by the soaking, sprouting, and dehydrating process. In general most dehydrated foods are great. Fabulous way to preserve food and for preparing fantastic raw dishes that would otherwise be impossible. Just keep the temperature around 115F and you're golden.

THeSt0rm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Anyways, who can tell me they really have access
> to locally grown healthy fruits and veggies, that
> are grown in pristine environments with all the
> right nutrients in the soil that would yield
> fruits that give all the necessary nutrients?


What we can do is soak the seeds in things like kelp water and mineral water. The mineral uptake can increase significantly over the original seed if the solution is mineral rich. One old study showed the zinc of alfalfa sprouts increasing almost 400% and calcium increasing around 200%.


Here are two studies which prove that soaking does increase mineral content:

Nutrients and anti-nutrients of high chlorophyll – mungbean sprouts as affected by different periods of germination and sprouting stages


Benjaruk Vayupharp, Varaporn Laksanalamai
[www.ijabe.org]


It was found that after sprouting for 77 h and exposing to sunshine for 24 h, the total minerals significantly increased for all cultivars. It was noticed that increase of total iron content was higher than that of other minerals during sprouting and sunshine exposure. HCL extractability of the minerals revealed that contents of Ca, K, Na, and Fe increased with the germination and sprouting for all cultivars


EFFECT OF GERMINATION ON MINERAL BIOAVAILABILITY OF SORGHUM-BASED COMPLEMENTARY FOODS

Tizazu S, Urga K et al
[www.ajol.info]


For varieties 76T1#23 and Meko, germination was found to increase significantly (p<0.05) levels of minerals (iron, zinc and calcium). For both varieties, sorghum flour germinated for 48 hours contained highest minerals content while lowest values minerals were recorded for ungerminated sorghum flour


Dr Finney also talks about great mineral increases in his thesis on sprouts (can't find the exact area). He also talks about how fermentation of certain foods can increase vitamin B1 up to 40% and B2 up to 188%. And yes, fermentation also can increase bioavailability of those massive vitamin increases from 20 - 37%!!!!!! (around page 283 onwards)

Also, the oligosaccharides do not cause flatulance like almost all books and websites blame. It is actually an X factor.


Dr Patrick Finney sprout thesis
[www.sproutnet.com]




>
> In the meantime, sprouts do the job for me until I
> can reach that 'heavenly' garden of eden. At which
> point I'll probably not even feel like living at
> all anymore.

www.thesproutarian.com

THeSt0rm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How do you make kelp water?

Just use powdered kelp water. There are so many things we can do to help grow sprouts better. Never ever use distilled water for sprouting, it leaches so many minerals out and can do other bad things from memory.

As far as the taste of legumes, l just say...suck it up and be a man about it lol. Don't run away from the taste, embrace it and get used to it. Avoiding raw foods because they taste too strong is like children avoiding healthy food because they don't like the taste...it's too fussy, and alittle silly because people are running away from raw food because they want to continue to baby their delicate taste buds and/or to cater for addictions. I just say two words to that...grow up! Fermented sprouted legumes taste good, and a good sprouted fermented millet tastes like orange juice with a kick, lots of good nutrition and highly bioavailable too. Fermented sprouted grains can increase zinc bioavailability up to 600% and iron over 1,000%.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2015 11:57PM by The Sproutarian Man.

THeSt0rm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> does it wash off when you drain the
> water from the seeds? Have you tried it yourself?

Yes, but mainly with microgreen seeds, but also can use for other seeds like alfalfa and then wash off if you desire or leave with the kelp on the seeds. Regardless, rinsings will eventually cause the gritty kelp powder to go.


>
> The kelp powder I have has some sediment also. I
> wonder which kelp powder you get. I got mines from
> Azure Standard... perhaps yours is finer? hard to
> know if it's raw either except if you consume a
> whole lot of it at a time to see if it makes me
> tired or not.

Mine is the old Blooms kelp, but l also have kelp flakes that is locally harvested.



THeSt0rm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do you use the soluble kelp powder made for crops
> or do you use the same kelp powder that you use
> for drinking?

The same as l drink.

Hey SueZ, I just saw your posts.

Yes, the sprouted and then dehydrated seeds really seem to have a not-so-good effect. I think we're thinking the same thing - that sprouting-then-drying them must kill the seed. It seems there's just something about being live, that makes a huge difference somehow. Very unscientific, according to the available science, but seems to be there just the same.

I have an old package of "go raw, Real Live Food Simple Seed Mix" (sprouted organic pumpkin seeds and sprouted organic sunflower seeds) in my refrigerator, and I will try to soak and sprout them and see what happens. If they're dead, they won't sprout of course.

I don't know why the shelled hemp seeds don't seem to have this same bad effect on me, but maybe it's because I don't eat them very often and only eat a few when I do. (?)

On the sprouted lentils, I've been thinking about responses from those who don't like them. I just want to say, "You don't know what you're missing!" (I really like them - but maybe just the French green ones so far. I need to post a picture.) I don't eat a huge quantity, and I mix them with lots of other great raw veggies. Like I said before, I've started to crave them when they're not around. They have a special kind of flavor/texture punch. Today I had a couple of nori rolls with 3 different kinds of lettuce, minced garlic, orange bell pepper strips, shredded green cabbage, shredded fresh turmeric, kelp flakes, lemon juice, avocado, and... (drum roll) sprouted lentils. SO GOOD! Cilantro would have been good in there too, but I didn't have any.

I like the lentils mixed with celery/tomato/bellpepper too, and (uh oh), hempseed.

Well, Suncloud, I'm glad we don't have to sit round waiting for scientists to figure out what soaking, sprouting, and dehydrating does to the life force of nuts and seeds!

Personally I haven't even soaked and sprouted seeds and nuts, much less put them back for a day in the dehydrator, since I discovered that following those raw vegan "rules" made me feel worse and also drained all the taste from every seed and nut I soaked and sprouted.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, Suncloud, I'm glad we don't have to sit
> round waiting for scientists to figure out what
> soaking, sprouting, and dehydrating does to the
> life force of nuts and seeds!
>
> Personally I haven't even soaked and sprouted
> seeds and nuts, much less put them back for a day
> in the dehydrator, since I discovered that
> following those raw vegan "rules" made me feel
> worse and also drained all the taste from every
> seed and nut I soaked and sprouted.

Funny, I'm the same way with sprouting nuts and seeds as you are - except for peanuts maybe. I like how peanuts taste when they're soaked, especially the "jungle peanuts". I like them unsoaked too, but they're maybe a little too heavy.

suncloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SueZ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Well, Suncloud, I'm glad we don't have to sit
> > round waiting for scientists to figure out
> what
> > soaking, sprouting, and dehydrating does to the
> > life force of nuts and seeds!
> >
> > Personally I haven't even soaked and sprouted
> > seeds and nuts, much less put them back for a
> day
> > in the dehydrator, since I discovered that
> > following those raw vegan "rules" made me feel
> > worse and also drained all the taste from every
> > seed and nut I soaked and sprouted.
>
> Funny, I'm the same way with sprouting nuts and
> seeds as you are - except for peanuts maybe. I
> like how peanuts taste when they're soaked,
> especially the "jungle peanuts". I like them
> unsoaked too, but they're maybe a little too
> heavy.

Suncloud, I didn't know that peanuts were edible raw. I have them around for the bird so I can easily give them a try. Any preparation tips for a fellow sensitive, lol? I can't stand those jungle peanuts but I used to enjoy roasted non-jungle ones back before I went raw vegan.

I also remember how much better sesame seeds and spices tasted back in the days I was roasting them. They were certainly dead. I wonder why they never bothered me? I know you've been raw for way longer than I have. Can you recall having any problem yourself with roasted spices, poppy seeds, mustard seeds, and sesame seeds, etc.?

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Personally I haven't even soaked and sprouted
> seeds and nuts, much less put them back for a day
> in the dehydrator, since I discovered that
> following those raw vegan "rules" made me feel
> worse.


I used to feel like that when l first started sprouted seeds and nuts because they gave me a funny feeling like a drawing in my stomach, but l fixed the problem by building up my bacteria levels via ferments. Now l have no problems.

I put it to people that raw foods are not enough, regular ferments need to be employed to build the body up in this sick world.

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SueZ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Personally I haven't even soaked and sprouted
> > seeds and nuts, much less put them back for a
> day
> > in the dehydrator, since I discovered that
> > following those raw vegan "rules" made me feel
> > worse.
>
>
> I used to feel like that when l first started
> sprouted seeds and nuts because they gave me a
> funny feeling like a drawing in my stomach, but l
> fixed the problem by building up my bacteria
> levels via ferments. Now l have no problems.
>
> I put it to people that raw foods are not enough,
> regular ferments need to be employed to build the
> body up in this sick world.

I never got a "drawing in my stomach" from sprouted seeds and nuts. I'm glad you were able to overcome that problem. Hopefully one day you will be able to overcome your need for ferments, too, and move on to living foods.

suncloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I like sprouted lentils, and they don't give me
> gas at all. However, if they give gas to someone
> else, or if someone else doesn't like them, I
> would certainly not suggest or recommend that they
> eat them.

Same here. Even with my candida, I tolerate sprouted lentils very well and enjoy them on my salads or in lettuce "tacos".

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Suncloud, I didn't know that peanuts were edible
> raw. I have them around for the bird so I can
> easily give them a try. Any preparation tips for a
> fellow sensitive, lol? I can't stand those jungle
> peanuts but I used to enjoy roasted non-jungle
> ones back before I went raw vegan.

One thing cool about the jungle peanuts is that they're aflatoxin-free, or at least they were the last time I checked. I just leave them soaking in water overnight. Then rinse them. Sometimes I leave them upside down draining the next 24 hours (rinse them again at night). They taste like fresh crispy green peas, with a touch of oily smoothness. Usually I'm lazy though and just eat them unsoaked. Moderation is a good approach for raw peanuts!

(Where I live, people like to boil their peanuts. I haven't tasted this, but my husband likes it.)

I soak chia too and make it like a porridge. All my other nuts/seeds are usually eaten without soaking. I like to eat the soaked chia with sunflower seed milk (just water blended with sunflower seeds, unsoaked and unstrained). A real treat is to make the milk with coconut water.

I'm open though to experimenting with some fermented nut milks or different kinds of nut cheeses when I find some time to do this.

> I also remember how much better sesame seeds and
> spices tasted back in the days I was roasting
> them. They were certainly dead. I wonder why they
> never bothered me? I know you've been raw for way
> longer than I have. Can you recall having any
> problem yourself with roasted spices, poppy seeds,
> mustard seeds, and sesame seeds, etc.?

I probably never ate those seeds roasted, except when I ate tahini. It didn't bother me then, but I'm guessing it would bother me now. I probably also ate some roasted peanuts, but I was never a peanut fan until I went raw. I hated peanut butter as a kid. Nasty stuff that stuck to my mouth.

Here's the results from experimenting with that sprouted/dehydrated seed mix (sunflower and pumpkin seeds): Most of the seeds are all broken up, but it seems that some of the unbroken seeds are actually sprouting, or I guess continuing to sprout.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2015 09:44AM by suncloud.

suncloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> One thing cool about the jungle peanuts is that
> they're aflatoxin-free,


Aflatoxins are not such a problem when you employ strategies to reduce them or neutralize them. Sprouting reduces aflatoxin (I think) and fermenting definitely kills it off. Vitamin C can also neutralize much of it,and l think chlorophyll may also neutralize much of it.

Sesame seeds have lots of aflatoxins, but they never seem to be a problem when one sprouts them.

suncloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SueZ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
>
>
> One thing cool about the jungle peanuts is that
> they're aflatoxin-free, or at least they were the
> last time I checked. I just leave them soaking in
> water overnight. Then rinse them. Sometimes I
> leave them upside down draining the next 24 hours
> (rinse them again at night). They taste like
> fresh crispy green peas, with a touch of oily
> smoothness.

I still have some around so I'll try soaking them as a test.


>
> (Where I live, people like to boil their peanuts.
> I haven't tasted this, but my husband likes it.)


I live in the north US so I have only heard of that southern "treat" recently.


>
> I soak chia too and make it like a porridge. All
> my other nuts/seeds are usually eaten without
> soaking. I like to eat the soaked chia with
> sunflower seed milk (just water blended with
> sunflower seeds, unsoaked and unstrained). A real
> treat is to make the milk with coconut water.


Being in the north I like my porridge warm so I pulverize the chia seeds with some dried berries and a xylitol/stevia mix and pour it into hot water that I've added fulvic acid and a little coconut oil to, That way it stays warm while I eat it.

>
> I'm open though to experimenting with some
> fermented nut milks or different kinds of nut
> cheeses when I find some time to do this.

I have done a little bit of experimenting and have found that, for me, I like the taste of the recipes better before the fermenting process so now I just cut that part out with no detected digestion distress noted.


>
> > I also remember how much better sesame seeds
> and
> > spices tasted back in the days I was roasting
> > them. They were certainly dead. I wonder why
> they
> > never bothered me? I know you've been raw for
> way
> > longer than I have. Can you recall having any
> > problem yourself with roasted spices, poppy
> seeds,
> > mustard seeds, and sesame seeds, etc.?
>
> I probably never ate those seeds roasted, except
> when I ate tahini.

I'm guessing you weren't into Indian food then, lol.

It didn't bother me then, but
> I'm guessing it would bother me now. I probably
> also ate some roasted peanuts, but I was never a
> peanut fan until I went raw. I hated peanut
> butter as a kid. Nasty stuff that stuck to my
> mouth.
>
I never ate too much peanut butter but I liked it in chocolate. If raw peanuts just taste like beans or peas I probably won't be too big of a fan but I'll give them a try.

> Here's the results from experimenting with that
> sprouted/dehydrated seed mix (sunflower and
> pumpkin seeds): Most of the seeds are all broken
> up, but it seems that some of the unbroken seeds
> are actually sprouting, or I guess continuing to
> sprout.

That's pretty mind blowing. I'll have to try some experiments for myself.

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Aflatoxins are not such a problem when you employ
> strategies to reduce them or neutralize them.
> Sprouting reduces aflatoxin (I think) and
> fermenting definitely kills it off.


>
> Sesame seeds have lots of aflatoxins, but they
> never seem to be a problem when one sprouts them.


That seems really weird to me. Sprouting usually increases chances of molds, etc. I keep all nuts and seeds and oils refrigerated and frozen. I have a few jars with small amounts of flax and chia, which I use everyday, left out on the counter but I wouldn't even do that in hot humid conditions.

Experiment continued: I should have started sprouting some regular seeds at the same time, so I could compare the difference. Of the sunflower seeds that have sprouted, many of them appear stunted, although a few do look pretty good. It would have been nice to compare their growth rate with the regular seeds.

So far, none of the pumpkin seeds have sprouted. I'm going to start the soak process tonight for the regular sunflower and pumpkin seeds, so at least I can compare a timeline for them all.

Of course, even the regular seeds have been dehydrated, but they haven't been soaked/sprouted and then dehydrated again. I wonder how long the pre-sprouted seeds are sprouted.

SueZ wrote, "I never ate too much peanut butter but I liked it in chocolate."

I remember now that I liked peanuts in Cracker Jacks - maybe mostly because of the prize in the box.

Suncloud, since there seems to be no legal definition for "sprouted" I wouldn't rule out that the seeds were soaked for less than the two hours which I have read is how long it takes them to sprout. They may have just been washed off and dehydrated again for all we know. I can't imagine any other way they could be "resprouted". But I don't know anything.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Sproutarian Man Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Aflatoxins are not such a problem when you
> employ
> > strategies to reduce them or neutralize them.
> > Sprouting reduces aflatoxin (I think) and
> > fermenting definitely kills it off.
>
>
> >
> > Sesame seeds have lots of aflatoxins, but they
> > never seem to be a problem when one sprouts
> them.
>
>
> That seems really weird to me. Sprouting usually
> increases chances of molds, etc. I keep all nuts
> and seeds and oils refrigerated and frozen. I have
> a few jars with small amounts of flax and chia,
> which I use everyday, left out on the counter but
> I wouldn't even do that in hot humid conditions.


Yes, it does not seem right that sprouting reduces aflatoxins, and a quick look at studies shows l am likely wrong on that. And yes, keeping in dry cool storage is a good idea to reduce chance aflatoxins occuring.

One interesting thing l did find was the effect of broccoli sprout glucosinolates on reducing the effects on aflatoxin-DNA adducts.

Effects of glucosinolate-rich broccoli sprouts on urinary levels of aflatoxin-DNA adducts and phenanthrene tetraols in a randomized clinical trial in He Zuo township, Qidong, People's Republic of China.

Kensler TW1, Chen JG
[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]


This seems very significant because aflatoxin-DNA adducts are biomarkers for cancer. So if we can reduce aflatoxin-DNA adducts the threat from the aflatoxin should not be a problem when one has regular amounts of broccoli sprouts in their diet.


Aflatoxin-DNA Adducts as Biomarkers of Cancer: Nature, Formation, Kinds of AF-DNA Adducts, Methodology, Effects, and Control

Magda Carvajal
[pubs.acs.org]

And we also know that sulforaphane (a broken down nutrient from glucsinolates in Brocolli sprouts) has a powerful long lasting effect in the body for at least 72 hours. So, imo it looks like broccoli sprouts can protect the body against aflatoxin for at least a few days. And when we have high chloropyll and vitamin C rich foods it seems that we have nothing to worry about.

Phytochemical Review, 2008

E.H. Jeffery
[en.wikipedia.org]


There seems to be solutions for many things in raw diets.