I did green juices and smoothies for years and felt great for quite a few years especially in the begining now I don't feel great on them at all, I developed imbalance in calcium and magnesium, too high calcium, it is healthiest to keep magnesium in balance and if possible higher than calcium.

When babies are born they have a really high magnesium level to calcium and then slowly calcium becomes higher, at death in most degenerative disease people get really high calcium levels and deposits in organs and it is associated with nearly all degenerative disease.

David Jubb says juicing is not good long term, it can put your body into balance in the begining and then slowly throw it out of whack in the other direction.

ttp://www.lifefood.com/Lifefood/Latest_Innovation/Entries/2008/2/23_Lifefood%2C_Living_Food%2C_Raw_Food%3B_Whats_Up.html

..blended greens or salad greens..

..here is an account of the Jubb's view on wild foods (i.e.dandelion)..

"The Jubbs were the first to begin educating people about the need for consuming only non-hybridized, low-glycemic diet, wild foods. Wild plant foods are those that would still repopulate the earth once we were gone. Their life force and genetic strength is still strong and un-manipulated by man. Anything that can grow outside of a farmer's fence or garden, and as Jubb says: "fight the daily battle with mold, fungus, yeasts, pests, and animals," you know is a food with a good deal of genetic power and life force. Dandelion is a good example, and Jubb was the first to write about its power and use as a LifeFood, even suggesting it in place of wheat grass. Just think about how you can find dandelion growing just about anywhere around your yard; it is a very hardy plant with serious survival traits. This is what we should look for in wild food."

[www.raw-living-food-success.com]

..so dandelion juiced?, blended or in a salad might be a substitute for wheat grass juice.. I believe it having used wild dandelion in quantity each way.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2009 07:21PM by loeve.

loeve, thanks so much for all the additional and in depth info. Most excellent!


Fuhrman, by the way, says the goiterogenity of crucifers is a myth. It's in one of his membership talks, I know the internet is full of references about hypothyroids being advised to avoid crucifers, but he did put my mind at ease in that regard.

I'll check out rhubarb again, then. I remember loving it as a kid.

hey tamukha

fascinating origins of your entomological name

thankh you for sharing thkhat!

I don't know if this contributes to the discussion, but: I was essentially raw every day until night time for a few years. I was kind of afraid that I would suddenly become starving and then I would fulfill my suspicion.

For me, large amounts of green juice was a good way for me to get myself on track eating raw, because it seemed easier (I did 2 months of the "global juice feast", brought to you by K-Tel). And, it still seems to me like it is easier than what I think is probably a proper raw diet. It was a huge moral builder to see after the first week that I was having all raw and not feeling starved.

Now, I'm still trying to figure out if eating lots of fruit is going to work out. I don't like "salad", especially the salad form (attempting to spear little flat pieces of leaf with a blunt instrument). I like collard greens. I like cabbage. I like broccoli. I like lettuce if it's juiced or blended with water.

So, so far I've had all fruit together with some kale juice, which I guess is cheating in a way, but I would think I've consumed enough fiber today to make up for the juice with very little fiber in it.

liponeer,

Are you actually saying that K-tel, as in K-tel International, the disco record compilation people, sponsored a global juice feast?

cocoa_nibs,

Intrigued that Dr. F believes that crucifers aren't goiteregenic. I'm going to look into this further, because I've been rereading this thread and recalling how it went when I was juicing greens, a few years ago, rather than blending, as I do now. My mother was a cancer patient, and was doing a holistic regimen including copious amounts of green juices[not lettuce], which I drank with her to show solidarity. After a few months of a pint and a half a day, I did feel incredibly fatigued. My doctor found that my thyroid was sluggish, though it hadn't been before the juicing started. I felt better after a few weeks off juice, and I feel pretty good so far on blended greens. Was my fatigue a mere coincidence? Hmmmm . . . . I will investigate.

..Dr. Furhman seems to be in line with PubMed studies on cruciferous veggies..

"This combined analysis indicates that cruciferous vegetables are not positively related to thyroid cancer risk. Their effect does not seem to be substantially different from that of other vegetables, which appear to be protective on this cancer."

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

Tamukha,

Yes, it was called K-tel's funky juice explosion, let our plants in your pants.

liponeer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm still trying to figure out if eating lots
> of fruit is going to work out. I don't like
> "salad", especially the salad form (attempting to
> spear little flat pieces of leaf with a blunt
> instrument). I like collard greens. I like
> cabbage. I like broccoli. I like lettuce if it's
> juiced or blended with water.
>
> So, so far I've had all fruit together with some
> kale juice, which I guess is cheating in a way,
> but I would think I've consumed enough fiber today
> to make up for the juice with very little fiber in
> it.


Hey, you sound like a natural for green smoothies! Just put roughly equal parts (by weight) of greens and fruit into the blender with some water. That way, you get all the goodies, including those that are not water-soluble (and therefore probably wouldn't end up in the juice). I tried green smoothies after reading about their many benefits in Victoria Boutenko's book "Green for Life". Now that I'm hooked on them, I'm really looking forward to reading her forthcoming book "Green Smoothie Revolution" (both are available from Amazon).

Sweet fruit and greens do not mix well

liponeer,

. . . it was called K-tel's funky juice explosion, let our plants in your pants.

I am laughing so hard I can barely type!


loeve,

Confused by the data: was it presupposed that goiteregens in cruciferi, because they impede iodine uptake and because this is a precursor condition to thyroid(and other) cancers, must indicate that cruciferi are carcinogenic? I am in doubt because the link between iodine deficiency and cancer development has sort of fallen by the wayside in clinical theory in the last few decades. That's why no oncologist checks a patient's iodine levels. I'll look into the background for the research studies compiled for the entry in your link; thanks for posting.

If you are having difficulty in drinking greens in a smoothie, I'd recommend Victoria Boutenko's 'recipe' of 60% fruit/40% greens. The fruit overwhelms the greens taste!

It's also pretty important to use a powerful blender, as otherwise the texture of the greens won't vanish (ewww). I have a Vitamix. It's over 20 years old, and works fabulous still. They are a solid investment.

Live Well, Laugh Often, Love Much
We are all in this together!
Namasté

Tamukha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> loeve,
>
> Confused by the data: was it presupposed that
> goiteregens in cruciferi, because they impede
> iodine uptake and because this is a precursor
> condition to thyroid(and other) cancers, must
> indicate that cruciferi are carcinogenic? I am in
> doubt because the link between iodine deficiency
> and cancer development has sort of fallen by the
> wayside in clinical theory in the last few
> decades. That's why no oncologist checks a
> patient's iodine levels. I'll look into the
> background for the research studies compiled for
> the entry in your link; thanks for posting.

Tamukha
In the study referenced they did a review of studies from around the globe looking to see if there was a link between crucifers and thyroid cancer. They found no such link, and that actually crucifers seemed to be beneficial to the thyroid, similar to vegetables in general.

"OBJECTIVE: To investigate the association between cruciferous and other vegetables and thyroid cancer risk we systematically reanalyzed the original data from 11 case-control studies conducted in the US, Asia, and Europe."
...
"CONCLUSIONS: This combined analysis indicates that cruciferous vegetables are not positively related to thyroid cancer risk. Their effect does not seem to be substantially different from that of other vegetables, which appear to be protective on this cancer."

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

..I believe they may have revisited a 1997 north Sweden study (which had found a positive correlation in endemic goiter areas) and re-analysed the data and found no correlation. But I don't have the full text to verify that.

loeve,

Thanks. I have looked into it and it's a wooly mess, so I don't think I'll find a clear answer to why anyone would expend clinical research hours on finding a causative link between thryoid cancer and cruciferi. Sometimes, things just don't make sense : )

madinah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sweet fruit and greens do not mix well


I do generally prefer to use berries, pears, and other not-so-sweet fruit in my green smoothies, but that's because of nutrition and flavor. And if the mix turns out a little too tart for my taste, I have no qualms about throwing in half a banana -- or even a whole one.

It's my understanding that LEAFY greens combine well with any category. Unfortunately, most food-combining charts confuse the issue by lumping them in with non-leafy green vegetables like broccoli, zucchini, and (*burp*) green peppers. Also -- since blending makes everything more digestible -- there's a little more leeway with smoothies than there would be with a salad.

Of course, the real test of any food combination is how your own personal stomach reacts to it.

Tamukha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> loeve,
>
> Thanks. I have looked into it and it's a wooly
> mess, so I don't think I'll find a clear answer to
> why anyone would expend clinical research hours on
> finding a causative link between thryoid cancer
> and cruciferi. Sometimes, things just don't make
> sense : )

Tamukha,
The study was done by the Institute of Pharmacological Research, Milan, Italy. Crucifers are of interest to pharmacists because of drug interactions, and of interest to Italians because cruciferous veggies have been enjoyed by them since Roman times, and if there is a connection with thyroid cancer (as cause or cure) they want to know about it. Italy has inland hilly regions where iodine deficiency is common and goiter endemic, and where iodised salt is available but little used, and so thyroid cancer is a concern (goiter being a risk factor of thyroid cancer).

The Italians seem to take the position of promoting vegetables including cruciferi, and seeking to cure iodine deficiency (and goiter) with iodine supplementation.

Like Suncloud's link earlier said, thyroid problems can develope in low iodine regions, and that sea veggies are a good source of iodine.

..maybe the Italian researchers were also motivated because they like their broccoli



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2009 07:06PM by loeve.

i just saw a you tube vid of wolfe(david) and he explained in the beggining of the diet you may crave green juices and as soon as get alkaline your need for it decreases

Monkey chew wads of greens (and other things too) and then spit out the wads. The wads might then be chewed by other monkeys (yuk!). I would think of this as being like juicing - so would this mean that juicing is a natural thing to do (in small amounts, I'm not talking about everything you eat)?

I was watching a YouTube video about green smoothies by Segei Boutenko and he said to "rotate your greens". That sounds like a good idea for two reasons,first you would be less likely to accumulate any negative substance in certain greens if you took a break from them and second, if you take a medicine for too long it can stop working because our body gets used to it, so if greens are like medicine then rotating them would keep their healing powers fresh and potent.