Hey all!

How can I get more protein? Like lots more? Would it be better to eat M*** or a lot of nuts and seeds to get protein? (I mean if you had to make the choice?)
I know that a lot of you are not into much protein, AND, I feel like I need way more, and this has led me to eating some M***, and I would love to know some raw foods that give me enough protein!

(I wrote M***, for the M word. I hope thats okay to get my point accross and not offend anyone!)

Thank you for your kindness!

love

IMO, transitioning is so individual. M*** was pretty much the last thing I gave up. I just felt I needed it, though I didn't want to be eating it.

I think you should just keep adding good stuff to your diet and gradually the worse stuff will be crowded out by the good. You will probably start to feel the need for less protein and fat as you fill your body with raw greens and fruit .... you could try reading up on Graham's book or one of the other Natural Hygiene books, though they don't usually take into account how difficult and unique transitioning to raw is, so you will have to look for that support here.

Also, is it possible you think you need more protein than you do?
I was eating way too many nuts thinking I needed protein - but it was actually causing me to crave them and cooked food and sweets - it must have been throwing my body off balance.

Lots of people like Graham's book, it sounds like a good guide for anyone.


Cheers!

Nuts provide more fat than they do protein. Veggies and fruits provide plenty of protein, because they provide the amino acids which are the building blocks of protein. A banana, for example, has all 8 of the essential (the ones our body can't make) amino acids. Our body has an amino acid pool, so you don't have to eat all the essential amino acids in one sitting. Just over time. Veggies and fruit actually provide protein that is easier for our body to use. Our body just takes the building blocks and assembles them how it needs. If you eat meat, then your body has to break it down and then reassemble. Much tougher to do.

I have never heard of a vegan who ended up protein deficient. Now I have heard of vegetarians ending up protein deficient because they relied on grains for most of their calories. Grains do not provide protein and block the absorption of protein from other foods eaten.

Just my humble opinion from what I have read and absorbed, of course.

That was interested karennd - I didn't know there was a protein pool and always thought it was a 'race' to get the right proteins in there around the same time.

Actually, amino acid pool. I had read a long time ago that the lady who introduced the concept that we needed to eat complete proteins at each meal, retracted it later on. But the complete protein idea won't go away...

diet for a small planet, that was the book. my mom had it and followed it for years. oh well, better beans and rice than hamburgers!
the author later recanted and said she was wrong about having to eat all the amino acids at the same meal, by then though the damage was done. so many people still think you have to eat that way.

karen, grains do supply some aminos though, do they not? even sprouted you don't recommend them?

shelled hempseeds = great source of protein... can buy in 5lb bags and add to smoothies, dressings, pates, make hemp milk, etc.

It is impossible to have a protein deficiency on a raw diet of whole raw foods assuming you are eating enough calories to meet your energy and caloric needs. If you are noticing symptoms in your body, this is more likely a detoxification reaction rather than a protein deficiency.

Thank you all!

I do believe in different body types and needs. And I feel I need more protein. And I exercise, and then I feel like I need even more then.

Wow, I didn't know grains block the absorption of protein! What do all of you recommend for good transitioning foods?

Hemp seeds are great. I already eat them. Thank you!

Okay, honestly, one reason I am skeptical about following the advice on the 80-10-10 diet is because I don't believe that fruit is our main food. Fruit grows when it's warm. We wouldn't be eating fresh fruit in the winter. It would have to be dried. And also the concept that not having a peroid is good for you and a sign of purity, I don't believe. Gabriel Cousins dosn't say this. He is a M.D.

Thank you all!

love

love Wrote:

> How can I get more protein? Like lots more?
> I know that a lot of you are not into much
> protein, AND, I feel like I need way more
>

i'm not going to tell you that you don't need more protein.
and i'm not going to argue with you.

but i was curious as to what makes you 'feel you need way more'.

I have similiar concerns. Its difficult for me to suspend old dietary paradigms. Even though I have heard that selective update solves a lot of problems associated with x,y, or z nutrient. From what I understand it works the best with raw foods, but not so well for cooked for some reason. Old protein requirement estimates(actually amino acids) were based on cooked ideas, using damaged proteins. I don't know how many people consider this in reviewing this info.

Animals don't need charts or rda's for anything, but they still have instinct to guide them, most people don't have that anymnore.

I don't think grains are good for us, but sprouted grains are the best. The sprouting gets rid of the antinutrients that block the absorption of vitamins and minerals. I would probably eat sprouted grains a little if I could tolerate them, but I can't.

Here is an article on why grains and legumes are unhealthy for us [www.newtreatments.org].

Okay, I thought I read that grains block the absorption of protein but now when I google I can only find that it blocks vitamins and minerals and that is when it is not sprouted. Soy blocks the absorption of protein, so I may have gotten the two mixed up. Grains do provide some protein, but protein that is the hardest to digest sometimes. Gluten is a wheat protein and is very hard to digest.

Oh, now I found it, I had to go to ask.com. Here is an excerpt from an article by Sally Fallon:

"What researchers often overlook is the fact that seed foods—grains, legumes and nuts—are prepared with great care in traditional societies, by sprouting, roasting, soaking, fermenting and sour leavening.22 These processes neutralize substances in whole grains and other seed foods that block mineral absorption, inhibit protein digestion and irritate the lining of the digestive tract. Such processes also increase nutrient content and render seed foods more digestible."

So, apparently, grains 'inhibit' protein digestion - but that is when they aren't sprouted.

love, I agree with you. I believe we need more vegetables than fruit. Or if we eat more of the non-sweet fruits that we traditionally think of as veggies (cucumbers, tomatoes) then that would work. But I have blood sugar issues and I feel awful when I eat too much fruit. Citrus in particular I just totally avoid.

Please tell us what symptoms are making you feel like you need more protein. Hunger? Cravings? Actually, in the U.S. (and some other developed countries) we have a problem with people eating too much protein and that is one of the reasons we have such a high rate of osteoporosis. Excess protein pulls calcium out of the bones.

>I believe we need more vegetables than fruit. Or if we eat more of the non-sweet fruits that we traditionally think of as veggies (cucumbers, tomatoes) then that would work. But I have blood sugar issues and I feel awful when I eat too much fruit. Citrus in particular I just totally avoid.

karen, have you heard that many people have experienced the same but over time their body has changed and they can then eat more fruit? seems to me that it's difficult to get enough calories when eating more veggies than fruit. and of course fat level plays a role.

I was never able to eat a lot of fruit other than apples. It made me feel spacey and jittery. In the beginning of going raw, I still couldn't eat a lot of fruits. Now, however, I eat a lot of them (not as much as most raw foodists, I'm sure, but a lot for me compared to only eating an apple every so often in the past). My body handles it all pretty well now (after a little over nine months 100% raw). I find myself drawn to different fruits now, where before I only ate them because I knew they were supposed to be good for me.

My favorite fruit over the past four months, or so, has been the beautiful lemon. I even had a spiritual-type dream that focused on eating lemons (someone was telling me in the dream that when a lemon tastes like the sweetest fruit I've ever eaten, I have then reached the goddess--which goddess that is, I have no idea LOL). But, alas, lemons can't be found anywhere right now. :-( There was some sort of damage to the lemon trees and the organic lemons just aren't available. I miss them like crazy--I'd pay double the price for them right now if they showed up in the food co op!

As for protein, I struggle with thinking about it sometimes. At one point, before going raw, I read about linking protein with high carbs (as in most fruits) so that I wouldn't experience the IR problems I was having. It seemed to work when I linked the protein (nuts, seeds, beans, legumes) with high sugar fruits. So, now I sometimes wonder if I'm eating protein the right way for my body as a raw foodist, but then another part of me says that if I need it, I'll crave it. Personally, I'm kind of getting to a point where nuts and seeds aren't as appealing to me (they seem to not digest as well as they used to, so I desire less of them). I assume this just means my body is responding to all the great raw foods I've been eating and things are balancing out to the way they should be for a healthy body. When my IR symptoms (irregular menstrual cycles, mostly) disappear, I'll take that as a sign that my body is completely well and healed by raw foods. So far, so good--my cycles are getting more and more regular. :-D

Sorry so long of a post. *blush*

Love,

Gypsy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2007 12:29AM by GypsyArdor.

love Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Okay, honestly, one reason I am skeptical about
> following the advice on the 80-10-10 diet is
> because I don't believe that fruit is our main
> food. Fruit grows when it's warm. We wouldn't be
> eating fresh fruit in the winter. It would have
> to be dried. And also the concept that not having
> a peroid is good for you and a sign of purity, I
> don't believe. Gabriel Cousins dosn't say this.
> He is a M.D.
>
> Thank you all!
>
> love

in nature don't you think we would have migrated or lived in a warm climate all the time? otherwise what would we have eaten? nothing grows at all in the serious cold. personally, i think it's the living where it snows that's unnatural.
and i don't buy that crap about no period either. bryan clement is such a well researched man and he doesn't support that idea either. a light and Pain-Free period, sure! but no period? i don't think so.

remember that things do change with a major diet/lifestyle change as well. fill that need you feel for extra protein now, your body is telling you to do that. perhaps you're having trouble utilizing what you take in and need extra, who knows. see if it levels off as you continue the healthful choices. that often happens.
i don't recommend the larger beans and legumes, they can be hard on the digestion, but sprouted lentils are terrific. sprouted or soaked sunflower and pumpkin seeds are nice too.

karen, interesting info about grains. thanks for sharing that.

RE: menstrual flow: I always wondered why we were sentenced to such a difficult effluent if we were meant to be clean and free (my beliefs). When I first heard of a no-blood cycle, I dismissed it from my mind - couldn't grok it. But when I recently read about it here and on Sunfood, it answered that question. We're so used to seeing all the ads and worrying if someone doesn't get theirs, that we need time to process the idea that a blood-free cycle could be what we're intended to have. Makes sense to me, anyway.




RE: organic lemons: I noticed Capers was without them for a couple of weeks then I noticed the new ones were from South Africa.

Aquadecococo,

I read that the US fumigates any lemons that come in from another country. You might want to check on that if you are buying the lemons coming from South Africa. :-/

Love,

Gypsy

personally i love having my period, it's a deeply spiritual time for me. when i stopped resisting it, it stopped resisting me and the pain and discomfort went away.

Gypsy, thanks for the news, I'll check.

I hope I'm not too late in the thread to add my experience. I've been raw for approximately three weeks and I've felt nothing but lethargic and run down. Per the suggestions of others on this site, I've greatly reduced my athletic endeavors and still feel as though I can barely walk to the mailbox and back. Understanding that my mindset still programmed to think in the awful SAD, I attribute this fatigue to a lack of protein. I know of nothing else to deduce from my weak condition.

I'm so desperate that I ate a small amount of meat last night and today feel 100% better. Psychosomatic? What could cause this total turnaround?

Even my dear wife who never notices the obvious things in life has commented that I look more tired and run down than normal. That's saying something...

Am I just being absurd? Should I continue to hang in there with my raw program and eventually things will turn around? I'm starting to get depressed and hate that negative outlook.

Thanks,

David

D Dave,

in the beginning, detox can make you tired
eating meat stops the detox.
less detox, less fatigue.
the detox is stronger than the negative aspects of meat.

there may be other issues, but you don't give details...

imo.

David,

If you took your post, and replaced the word "meat" and "protein" with "coffee", your post would totally make sense, and in fact we would see that you were going through a stimulant detoxification.

Well, it turns out that meat is also a stimulant, so its no surprise that you are feeling this way. If you remove a stimulant out of your diet, you will go through a period of extreme fatigue. The best thing to do during this period is get more rest and sleep so that your body can remove the toxins out of your body and your energy levels can come back to normal. And after the fatigue has passed, you will feel great again.

I went this process when I quit coffee, and my dependence on coffee was so great that I was unable to work for 4 months as my body healed. Because I understood that fatigue and other symptoms were a sign of healing, I was quite excited that my body was going through the massive chronic fatigue. And afterwards, my health soared.

diamond dave, I agree with what brian said but I also found a couple of articles that might help.

Here are 15 raw food tips by Karen Knowler that I thought might help [karenknowler.typepad.com].

Also, there is one on endless energy at [karenknowler.typepad.com]. Just scroll down to the August 31st article.

Lack of energy isn't always a detox issue, it can also because we are not doing something right with our raw diet. Check out those articles and see if there are ways you can improve your raw diet that might boost your energy level. Good luck!

Its very very very very hard to become protein deficient. Protein is the easiest nutrient for a human being to get. We only need approximately 40-45 g of protein a day. Here's a page that explains everything about protein for vegetarians, but it -IS- pertinent to raw foodists too. All the site has lots of great information about sources of different minerals and vitamins.

[www.vegsoc.org]

Hope this helps!

Oops, forgot a couple links I was gonna add. Sorry for the double post!

[www.soystache.com] Has a HUUUGE list of sources of protein, put 'raw' into your browsers word search to find the specifically 'raw' sources of protein. If you're 80/10/10 then there's other sources you can use to. Sorry again for the double post!

i don't think wild animals menstruate.

rastafari speaks !


[www.rastafarispeaks.com]

Thank you all!

I feel I need more protein because I am listening to my body!

Thank you for the links and information everybody!

Fresh, Bryan, Karen, and everyone else - thanks so much for replying. Suppose I need to stop whining and hang in there. A little unpleasantness up front versus an invigorated and energetic rest of my days here on earth. I need to bite the bullet as the latter is worth the effort.

Bryan, had no idea meat was a stimulant. Is that really the case? I know you're not jesting, just still shaking my head over that revelation. And four months to rid your body of coffee? Goodness, that must have been an ordeal. All I can say is please NEVER take a sip of Monster, Full Throttle, Red Bull, etc.... I found out the hard way that there's enough caffeine in those drinks to sink a ship!

Back on the raw bandwagon for me. What a fabulous community we have here.

Superb post, Love. Thanks for letting me hop on.

Regards,

David

animals menstruate.

[en.allexperts.com]
[en.allexperts.com]
[en.wikipedia.org] (scroll down for other animals info)

why is it always a man telling us our menses is unnatural? do they still fear a woman's ability to create life so much?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

hey dave, are you detoxing from coffee now? were you drinking it until 3 weeks ago?
btw 3 weeks is hardly any time at all for your body to adjust to a big change. it took a lifetime to get to your current state of health, give yourself some time to get to a better one. stick with it and good luck!

coco Wrote


do they still fear a woman's ability to
> create life so much?
>
>



Or maybe it's just the mystery of it.......they never experience anything quite like it and it's hard to imagine!