I live in a northern state in the united states. They say that theres not enough sun after october to produce vitamin D. Does anyone know if this is true? My sense of reality is really shattered recently, in a good way. Now a lot of things seem possible which didn't seem possible before. Perhaps if you are healthier one can still make vitamin D? perhaps those studies were wrong, because people weren't optimally healthy?

As a back up, what other things can one do to ensure vitamin D for the winter? Or perhaps there is enough stored in the body to last until the summer? I have heard that mushrooms contain vitamin D.

Any thoughts on this would be fantastic.

Nah, not in my experience - last winter (while raw) I got depressed and couldn't figure out what was wrong with me until I posted on here and someone said to take a vitamin D pill, which I did, and felt instantly better. However, I do know I was eating some sugar in the winter also, and sugar will deplete nutrients, so maybe if my diet had been completely whole I wouldn't have gotten deficient. We'll see if I need it this winter, as I no longer eat sugar.

take advantage of every sunny day you can, expose as much skin as possible, it's fine to get some sun through a window too.
when that doesn't work~
my solution is to fake and bake. seriously, i get down in the dark months, 5 minutes in the fake sun now and then and i feel terrific. it's not enough to get any colour and i cover my face with a towel.

I take 2,000 units a day and get my blood checked to make sure my levels don't go too high since it is a fat soluble vitamin (actually, it's a steroid hormone).

Look for supplements that provide D3 (cholecalciferol) rather than D2 (ergocalciferol).

Vitamin D is stored in your fat and is accessible to the body during the winter months if the supply was built up during the spring, summer, and fall. I also live in the upper midwest and last winter I purchased a sun-lamp and it did seem to help a bit.
Good luck.

Inner Beauty

Hi Mislu,

This is what I posted in response to another thread about vitamin D here. It is possible to store enough vitamin D for the winter, pretty much no matter where you live (save the artic circle!). You just to get enough sun exposure during the spring, summer, and fall months (see below).

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Hey Folks,

I don't normally post--since I find that work keeps me super-busy--but I just had to post in response to this.

Sun exposure is the superior source of vitamin D. Medical research shows that it is far and away better than any kind of supplement or food source. It is actually almost impossible to get enough vitamin D from food (unless you're taking high doses of fish oil or some such), so the world's top experts in vitamin D research rank vitamin D from the sun as the superior source; followed by a vitamin D3 supplement (animal source), which seems to be the next best utilized by the body; and followed by a vitamin D2 (plant source). However, they say supplements are an inferior second choice that should be used only when it is not possible to get enough vitamin D from the sun (which they contend that virtually everyone can). Also, vitamin D inhibits cell growth and encourages cell differentiation, which has been tied to its ability to decrease the risk of 13 internal cancers, including breast, prostate, and colon cancer. This explains the paradox that men who sunburn frequently have lower risk of prostate cancer, for example (but of course, higher rates of skin cancer). If you get vitamin D from the sun, you also get the extra benefits of beta-endorphins (pleasure molecules) and lower blood pressure, whereas supplemental vitamin D does not do this.

Vitamin D is an incredible vitamin (well, technically, it's actually a hormone)! It is far more important for bone health than calcium intake. Why? Because vitamin D regulates calcium (and other mineral) uptake. Studies have found that those who are deficient in vitamin D have to consume THREE times the calcium for their bodies to absorb as much calcium as people who are not deficient in calcium. For someone on SAD, that would mean that a vitamin D individual would have to drink 9 glasses of milk a day (~1700 cal), instead of 3!!! Egads!!!

Also, although the current RDA for vitamin D is 400 IU, a number of the world's top experts believe that the RDA should be raised to 1000 IU, and a couple of them predict that it will be raised in the next decade. Research has strongly suggested for quite some time that 400 IU is inadequate.

If you tell me your lattitude (or your city) and your skin color/ethic background, I can look up the exact amount of sun exposure (by time of day and time of year) you need to maintain adequate vitamin D levels all year round. I'd be happy to post that information here. The skin color descriptions are listed below. It's likely that anyone who tried to get vitamin D from the sun, but didn't feel immediate results that either not enough time was spent in the time (the amount you need varies dramatically by skin color, latitude, and time of day, so it's really unfortunate that everyone says "oh, 15 minutes is fine", because that's not true for a lot of people), or not enough skin was exposed, or some other minor problem that can be fixed.

According to Dr. Michael Holick (one of the worlds experts on vitamin D), as long as you don't live above 70 degrees latitude--which means roughly the Artic circle--you CAN get get adequate vitamin D from the sun to sustain you year round. Despite this, a large fraction (30-50%) of our population is deficient in vitamin D, because people don't go outside much. He says that there is no need for average people (meaning those who don't have excess needs for vitamin D) to supplement.

Here are the skin color descriptions:

Type 1: "I always burn, never tan, and am fair with red of blond hair and freckles (albinos, some redheads)."

Type 2: "I easily burn, hardly tan, and am fair skinned (people of northern European origin, such as Scandinavians or Celts)."

Type 3: "I occasionally burn and graduatlly tan (people of Mediterranean and Middle East origin)."

Type 4: "I rarely burn and always tan (people of East Asian origin and some Indians and Pakistanis)."

Type 5: "I seldom burn, always tan, and have medium-to-dark skin (people of African origin, South East Asians, and some Indians and Pakistanis)."

Type 6: "I never burn and tan darkly (people with "blue-black" skin, of African origin, and dark-skinned Asians such as Tamils.)"


As an example, let's say you live in the mid-latitudes (approx. 35-50 degrees; includes Boston, New York, and San Francisco).

You need 2-3 sun exposure sessions each week, during which 25% or more of your body must be exposed. This could mean your face, hands, and arms are exposed, or your arms and legs are exposed.

For someone with TYPE 2 skin color living in the mid-latitudes, one sun exposure session would be:

MARCH-MAY
20-30 minutes of sun if between 8 AM-11 AM
15-20 minutes of sun if between 11 AM-3 PM
20-30 minutes of sun if between 3 PM-6 PM

JUNE-AUGUST
15-20 minutes of sun if between 8 AM-11 AM
5-10 minutes of sun if between 11 AM-3 PM
15-20 minutes of sun if between 3 PM-6 PM

SEPTEMBER-OCTOBER
20-30 minutes of sun if between 8 AM-11 AM
15-20 minutes of sun if between 11 AM-3 PM
20-30 minutes of sun if between 3 PM-6 PM


For the mid-latitudes, it's not possible to produce vitamin D from November through February (aka "vitamin D winter". However, if you follow the above regime and are neither underweight, nor overweight, then your body will store extra vitamin D in your fat, which will be released when the winter comes. Dr. Holick says:

"You cannot make vitamin D in high latitudes during the winter months. However, if you live in the northeastern United States and follow this guideline between May and October, you will make enough vitamin D to last you through the winter. Vitamin D is stored in your body fat and released in the winter when you need it. (However, if you are obese, this this process is much less efficient, as the body tenaciously holds onto the vitamin D.) If you don't get this amount of sunlight between May and October, then during the winter months consider alternate forms of vitamin D, such as pill supplements and indoor tanning facilities..."

Of course, if you are worried or simply just want ensure that you have enough vitamin D, you could go outside for longer than Dr. Holick recommends. That's what I do: I try to go outside for about 30 minutes, at least 3 times a week, and I wear a bikini. (I live in the mid-latitudes and have light skin, so this is more than adequate for me.) Or, during the "vitamin D winter" for your latitude, you could take a vitamin D supplement during the winter only--this would at least save you the expense of using one during the spring, summer, and early fall--if you want to be triple sure that you get enough.

To add a personal note, I lived in England a few years ago, and became very vitamin D deficient. I spent so much time indoors, that when I went outside my eyes were so sensitive to the light that I had to wear sunglasses even when it rained. It was bad! I also developed holes in my teeth at that time, which I thought was strange because I was taking calcium supplements. Fortunately, I eventually figured out what had happened, and re-trained my eyes. After sunbathing in a bikini for 20-30 minutes, I noticed that my sensitive teeth started going away. After doing this for *only* 2 weeks, I was able to double my consumption of fruit, yet end up with less tooth sensitivity. Eventually, the combination of sunlight plus me getting better at identifying ripe fruits did away with my tooth sensitivity altogether. So it is possible and it isn't that hard to get enough vitamin D from the sun, and it makes a HUGE difference.

Finally, I can't recommend the book "The UV Advantage" highly enough. If you are a science-type like me, it is a wealth of information on how vitamin D and sunlight affect everything from MS, to cancer, to depression. The back of the book has sunbathing tables that are fabulous and estimate how much sun you need, based on your skin color, latitude, time of year, and time of day. If anyone wants this information, just let me know your information, and I'll post the answer here.

Best Wishes.

Sciencegal..

Thanks for a very enlightening (no pun intended) post. I learned so much! I would love to know what amount of sun exposure I would need for my location and skin type. I would be classified a Type 2 and shortly will be moving to Davenport WA with a latitude of 47 degrees.

Elayne

science girl tickles my brain.
sometimes i love you people so very, very much!

sciencegal,

Thanks for the very interesting post. I am type 3 in the mid-latitudes and I can't imagine sitting outside in a bikini even this time of year. Some days in Sept and Oct are in the 40s, so I don't think it's realistic to count on getting vit D regularly then. Am I missing anything? I'm starting to take a vitamin already.

Thanks, Sciencegal! Very informative!

So I suppose there's an upside to being an avid cyclist & runner living in sunny and still hot Texas?

Truth be told, as I've aged I much prefer the summer months full of sunshine & warmth to the bitterly cold days we sometimes see here in the south. When I was a youth I hated the 100 degree summers in Texas. Funny how things change with time.

Best to all,

David

Glad it was helpful

Elayne--Here are the sun exposure times for Type 2 skin in the mid-latitudes (35-50 degrees):


MARCH-MAY
20-30 minutes of sun if between 8 AM-11 AM
15-20 minutes of sun if between 11 AM-3 PM
20-30 minutes of sun if between 3 PM-6 PM

JUNE-AUGUST
15-20 minutes of sun if between 8 AM-11 AM
5-10 minutes of sun if between 11 AM-3 PM
15-20 minutes of sun if between 3 PM-6 PM

SEPTEMBER-OCTOBER
20-30 minutes of sun if between 8 AM-11 AM
15-20 minutes of sun if between 11 AM-3 PM
20-30 minutes of sun if between 3 PM-6 PM


rost0037--For someone with 3 skin color living in the mid-latitudes (35-50 deg), one sun exposure session would be:

MARCH-MAY
30-40 minutes of sun if between 8 AM-11 AM
30-40 minutes of sun if between 11 AM-3 PM
30-40 minutes of sun if between 3 PM-6 PM

JUNE-AUGUST
20-30 minutes of sun if between 8 AM-11 AM
15-20 minutes of sun if between 11 AM-3 PM
20-30 minutes of sun if between 3 PM-6 PM

SEPTEMBER-OCTOBER
30-40 minutes of sun if between 8 AM-11 AM
30-40 minutes of sun if between 11 AM-3 PM
30-40 minutes of sun if between 3 PM-6 PM


If you can expose your arms and face, or arms and legs, 2-3 times a week, May - Sept, that would be enough. But hmmm....40 deg weather is tough. I don't think I could do that. I live in Boston, and today, we had 80 deg weather, so it wasn't a problem. Where do you live that the temperature is already in the 40's? Yes, then in your case, it sounds like you might want to take some vitamin D supplement during the winter!

Best Wishes

ok chica bella. me and my littles (6yrs and 14 mos) are french, ukrainian, and a smattering of metis, irish, english, etc. basically type 2-3. we live (right now) in southern ontario near windsor (south of detroit michigan).
i get whatever sun i get every day. little gets sun on the way to school and back, lunch time and recess and weekend adventures. the wee princess gets 10-20 minutes of filtered sunlight daily or every other day. sometimes it's through the window and sometimes she gets some direct sunlight when we're out but not much.
how are we doing? i'm not going to give the kids, especially the baby, any kind of oral supplements.

hey, science gal, still out there?

dude, this is a vegan site. it's HIGHLY inappropriate to recommend that here.

jorgeben,

I've deleted your post because it was not vegan in nature. Its OK that non vegans participate here, but it is not OK to recommend animal products, or as you did, highly recommend them. In the future, please refrain from advocating animal products as many people here find this offensive.

Sciencegal--
Thank you! That's such a help. I've been thinking about my vitamin D levels lately, as I live in Cambridge (yes, we're neighbors!) and sometimes feel a bit depleted in the dark depths of winter. Jonathan and I will definitely start going out on the terrace and getting sun exposure every day.

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2007 12:03AM by kwan.

Bryan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jorgeben,
>
> I've deleted your post because it was not vegan in
> nature. Its OK that non vegans participate here,
> but it is not OK to recommend animal products, or
> as you did, highly recommend them. In the future,
> please refrain from advocating animal products as
> many people here find this offensive.


I'm happy to honor this request.

Hello Coco,

I'm SO sorry for being MIA and for the long delay in responding; I've been super-busy, so avoided the board until I caught up on work. But I'm back now

Living in Winsor, Ontario, would put you in the mid-latitudes. So the same post as above would apply.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
-Here are the sun exposure times for Type 2 skin in the mid-latitudes (35-50 degrees):


MARCH-MAY
20-30 minutes of sun if between 8 AM-11 AM
15-20 minutes of sun if between 11 AM-3 PM
20-30 minutes of sun if between 3 PM-6 PM

JUNE-AUGUST
15-20 minutes of sun if between 8 AM-11 AM
5-10 minutes of sun if between 11 AM-3 PM
15-20 minutes of sun if between 3 PM-6 PM

SEPTEMBER-OCTOBER
20-30 minutes of sun if between 8 AM-11 AM
15-20 minutes of sun if between 11 AM-3 PM
20-30 minutes of sun if between 3 PM-6 PM


For someone with 3 skin color living in the mid-latitudes (35-50 deg), one sun exposure session would be:

MARCH-MAY
30-40 minutes of sun if between 8 AM-11 AM
30-40 minutes of sun if between 11 AM-3 PM
30-40 minutes of sun if between 3 PM-6 PM

JUNE-AUGUST
20-30 minutes of sun if between 8 AM-11 AM
15-20 minutes of sun if between 11 AM-3 PM
20-30 minutes of sun if between 3 PM-6 PM

SEPTEMBER-OCTOBER
30-40 minutes of sun if between 8 AM-11 AM
30-40 minutes of sun if between 11 AM-3 PM
30-40 minutes of sun if between 3 PM-6 PM


If you can expose your arms and face, or arms and legs, 2-3 times a week, May - Sept, that would be enough to generate enough vitamin D and to store enough vitamin D for the winter.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


As for filtered sunlight, it turns out that glass blocks 95% of UV rays (even though it permits visible light to pass through). So you would have to multiply each of the above times by 20 (yikes!).

From your description, it sounds like little is doing well on sunlight, but that your wee one could use more sunlight and/or sunlight that is unfiltered.

I hope this helps!

I have just been diagnosed with a severe vitamin D deficiency! I am taking supplements (for 3 days) and feel alot better alread.

If you are having a blood test, you might as well include a D test. I had to insist that my Dr include this test. She didn't want to...

Ugh. Getting enough vitamin D seems impossible. It's too cold to sit outside here, and I avoided the sun with UVB block all summer because I don't want to get wrinkles... why does vitamin D have to exist?