I am battling a thyroid problem and find that eating simple raw really helps me feel more energetic. I would like to stick to it all the time, but my cravings are out of control, and I mean OUT OF CONTROL. All I can do is think about food and it drives me crazy. I'm not hungry either. Then I cave in and have something and then, sure enough, the next day I've crashed again (like today - I slept 10.5 hrs last night & still want a nap).

What I want to know is, if I'm sticking to raw and eating enough carbs, and eating enough in general over what period of time can I expect my cravings to become more manageable? I think I'm usually around 1800-1900 calories a day when I'm all raw (I'm female). Probably a bit more than 10% fat, but I'm not too out of control on it. A few weeks? a month? A few months? A year (hopefully not)? Obviously it may depend, but it's so intense that I feel I need some idea. Worst case scenario, anyone? I'm limiting spices too, cutting out salt, especially.

I have been through what you are going through. On my previous attempts at going raw, I gave into the cravings at about a month and gave up on eating raw food. Now I am into my 4th month of eating raw.

This time colonics have made the big difference for me. I heard Matt Monarch give a talk and I use my bib kit at home (some people use a colema board, some use an enema bag, and some go to a professional colonic hydrotherapist) and the cravings are gone almost immediately!

As we eat raw food our body detoxes faster than it can eliminate the toxins. Even if you are having great movements, you get backed up with toxins. Clearing out the toxins accumulated in the intestines helps the body to be able to devote more energy to detoxing your blood, etc. Toxins in your intestines and blood set off cravings. That hamburger from last month or last year is leaving your body and setting off cravings as it goes.

Dr. Norman Walker, a famous raw foodist who ran a clinic, required all his patients to get regular colonics.

Just my 2 cents.

So Karen are you then reasoning that your overall detox period has been diminished? I wouldn't say that I've been having cravings for specific foods like hamburgers or strawberry milk shales, rather in the evenings I want sugar badly - and not from fruit but processed foods.

Can you also tell us a little about the bib kit? I know nothing at all. Your helpful links are always appreciated.

Regards,

David

Thanks, Karen. I'll try that. Do you do daily colonics, and for how long -- I thought you weren't supposed to use colonics for too extended a period of time (i.e. over a week or so).

Thanks!

Yes, David, I think it speeds the healing and detox time. It has definitely helped me with my sugar cravings, sugar was my achilles heel. This is the bib kit I bought [www.bibkit.com], lower left-hand side of the page.

No, not daily, that would probably be too much unless you had a definite need. I mean I do know of one man who had multiple sclerosis and his intestines were not functioning so he did do a daily enema (per a holistic doctor's instructions) and he did that for 2 years. In the meantime he was also juicing, eating a very high raw diet, and taking prescribed supplements and after 2 years his colon started functioning again on it's own. But, for the rest of us every 2, 3 or 4 weeks is plenty. I started out at every 2 weeks and now every 3 weeks or so seems to work. Just basically when you feel the need.

Unlike laxatives which your body can become dependent on, colonics actually exercise the colon and keep the muscles in shape inducing peristalsis which is a series of organized muscle contractions that occur throughout the digestive tract.

Also, there is a movie for sale at [www.vegan2rawvegan.com]. If you watch the trailer you will see this man talking about how he doesn't feel good, interspersed with raw vegans talking about how they feel great and why they eat that way. The man not feeling good has just switched from a vegan to a raw vegan diet. Someone who has seen the whole movie says he goes to get a professional colonic and comes back feeling great!

Your response is very meaningful to me as I'm in my 40's and have already endured two colonoscopies. Each time they found a few non-cancerous polyps but my surgeon advised me years ago to have a glass of Metamucil or something similar every day. Not knowing then what I know now, I adhered to this routine. Obviously, since beginning a raw food eating program the Metamucil had been shunned to the back of the pantry. I did however, have a glass a week or so ago with horrible results. Suppose my intestinal tract was healing somewhat and then I threw it a curve by reintroducing an unnatural and harsh laxative. I won't be doing that again, trust me. I don't wish to hijack another thread, but my anger at traditional medicine is mounting more with each passing day. Instead of high dollar colonoscopies and laxatives made in a laboratory, fresh fruits and vegetable should be the order of the day. Clearly, submitting such a notion which goes against the 'time honored' SAD would mean less revenue for these fine surgeons...

I just about to check out the bib kit. Really appreciate your response once again.

Regards,

David

Oops, when I said laxative - I meant chemical stimulant laxatives like Carter's [www.drugstore.com] for example. I think my mom is dependent on these types of laxatives which I think is sad.

But at least Metamucil is all fiber, no chemical stimulants. Maybe your body reacted badly because it was too much of a concentrated non-whole food fiber for your more healthy body at this point.

You can send me a PM (private message) if you have any questions about the bib kit. Or I think that company is good about answering questions too.

I endured one colonoscopy, they didn't find anything, and I am never ever enduring another. For one thing they use anesthesia and some studies are now linking those drugs to Alzheimers...

stay away from salt , especially salt, and spices, stimulants, and non raw stuff that raw foodists say is raw but not..

in a few hours you will be cravng cooked food if you eat stuff like that

Colonics do not aid or hasten cleansing. Please read my colonics essay on the "philosophy and other articles" page at www.RawSchool.com.

Best wishes,
Nora
www.RawSchool.com

I recommend this book on Colon Health by Norman Walker [www.amazon.com] and check out the reviews about it on Amazon.com. He lived to well over 100 and required regular colonics of all his clients. I feel lighter afterwards and so much comes out. I take probiotics everyday to replace the good bacteria.

My first guru, a holistic doctor by the name of Dr. Joel Robbins says, “When the colon doesn't work properly, wastes back up and solidify in the intestines, becoming rancid, toxic and impacted. Toxins become reabsorbed into the bloodstream (known as autointoxication), poisoning various systems of the body.” Colonics is cleansing of the lower bowel (colon); it encourages detoxification of the body and establishes muscle tone in the intestine so it can function on its own.

Bathing is unnatural too and brushing your teeth. Let's stop doing those too. lol It's just water and another way to cleanse ourselves of toxins. That's all.

It's also in the Essene Gospel of Peace, supposed recommended by Jesus. I was a little surprised to read that.

For a person eating a low fat all raw diet, there is absolutely no need for colon cleansing. Given a proper diet, the colon doesn't get backed up and wastes don't solidify.

It is true that bathing is unnatural. It would not be necessary at all if people didn't live in such a way that causes wastes to be exuded through their skin and mucus membranes. Tooth brushing is a bit more complicated, but it is true that it should also not be necessary under ideal conditions. It is said by colonics fans that our colons need cleansing too. The difference is a simple matter of cost vs. benefit. The cost of taking a tepid bath (infrequently, as long as it's not hot) or brushing our teeth is not greater than the benefits we derive from these practices. In the case of flooding the colon with water, the cost is too great and the benefits mostly misperceived, as I detail in my essay.

We'll never know how much longer Norman Walker might have lived if he hadn't engaged in this harmful practice.

Best wishes,
Nora
www.RawSchool.com

If it helps me to stay on a raw diet, then the benefits are worth it. Nothing is being pushed back up. We live in a very toxic environment. I guess we will have to agree to disagree and leave it at that. I read your article, btw, and I think it would be helpful if you stated your references at the end of your article. Also, do you have your credentials and/or training on your website? Just wondering, I couldn't find them.

The age at which Norman Walker died probably isn't really that important, because it is disputed anyway, but the fact that he was physically and mentally healthy and active up until the day he passed away in his sleep is.

We should die like an incadescent light bulb, not a fluorescent light bulb (as so many do nowadays - flickering and flickering until they finally go out).

Another suggestion for cravings is EFT (Emotional Freedom Technique). This tapping technique is great for cravings and they have a free manual for doing it yourself at www.emofree.com.

Karen,
As TC Fry used to say, "I have not been formally miseducated".

Almost everything that is recommended by doctors which makes people sicker is backed by studies, citations, research, etc. This is obviously not a reliable way to determine truth. You won't find people with credentials telling the truth about colonics, except those who are threatened by *everything* that departs from mainstream thought (i.e., Quackwatch.com, etc.). The truth is not taught in medical school, not even in naturopathic medical school, as you may know. To find the truth, therefore, one must look to UNcredentialed, UNconventional sources. In any case, much of my article is just common sense, which is not so common anymore, unfortunately, hence all the controversy.

I agree with you about natural death. It should be quick and painless.

Best wishes,
Nora
www.RawSchool.com

What do you think about this article on T.C. Fry?

[chetday.com]

It seems he had problems with cravings.

If I may digress, what do people mean by "cravings?" As I sit and think about it I don't really crave anything cooked! My issues with staying 100% raw have more to do with my gut and how it's responding at any particular moment, and social considerations. I'd love to know/hear from others including the OP - what do you crave?

Cheers all...

I crave a burrito every week when I buy Taco Bell for my family. I want to experience sinking my teeth into it, the cheesy sensation, the mix of flavors but then I think of how it would make me feel...

If you're asking me, Karen, I'd say my feelings are summed up in this quote from the article: "Like you and me, TC Fry had strengths and weaknesses". One of his strengths certainly was fearlessly criticizing ideas that counter nature, many of which are perpetuated among raw fooders, unfortunately.

Peony,
"Craving" is a euphemism we use to describe the bad feelings we experience when our bodies attempt to cleanse from our past dietary mistakes. We have trained our minds to seek out the very substance that caused the overexpenditure of energy and/or accumulation of waste, because re-stimulation (via digestion of harmful foods or substances) causes cleansing (and the bad feeling) to stop. In other words, it is withdrawal.

Regards,
Nora
www.RawSchool.com

Thanks for the thoughts, Nora. Do you ever "crave" anything you wouldn't normally eat.. or did you when you first went raw? Anyone else?

I imagine it is much more difficult for those who must cook or provide cooked food for others.

Peony,

It's very odd but I've been craving a ton of sweet, processed foods and back a few months ago when I started this I wouldn't have called myself a dessert or sweet eater. The only thing I can think of is about 2+ years ago I used to drink fairly heavily and there's a ton of sugar in booze, no? Regardless, I'm coping with my demons and not giving in to sugar at the moment. Have no desire for a drop of alcohol BTW and stopping was as easy as flipping a switch. Wish I could say the same for eating raw. LOL!

Funny that you mention it but my wife isn't the most domestic and doesn't cook hardly at all. My kitchen is glorious and I still cook the SAD for my kids every night. For some reason it's not hard to refrain from what I serve. Even sillier, I have my wife check things for taste and possible seasoning. I won't even do that any more!!! It now makes me think if we build another house in the future, I'll be choosing all these high end commercial stainless appliances that won't really benefit me at all. Talk about irony...

My salad for lunch was simply delicious! No sugar cravings at the moment...

Best to all,

David

Dave - All I can say is kudos to you for doing that for your family. Any chance of converting them to raw or mostly raw? Good luck with the sugar cravings! Just say NO! :-)

Just say NO is right! I'll stand firm this weekend as I'll be mono-eating bananas.

I've been thinking about converting my kids for some weeks now. Here in the states however it's such a mountain to climb. I've tried to get my wife to eat better to no avail. Sadly, her parents are "snackers" and she's taught that same mindset to our children. She's the best woman I've *ever* met and is a superb special ed teacher where my kids go to school. I want to kill myself however on many an evening that I come home to serve a wonderful gourmet dinner (by SAD standards) that's met with disdain and lack of hunger as my wife and children were "snacking" only an hour or two before. Sigh...

For the moment my oldest thinks my green smoothies are "gross". Am hoping that may change in her teenage or college years. I wish I had known about this lifestyle before they were born.

Best,

David

I wish I had made changes before mine were born too.

One thing I have done for years though is set out a bowl of fruit each for them to eat at breakfast, along with their boiled eggs or yogurt. And I make them a salad before most suppers. Lately, I've also gotten on a kick to get rid of all transfats, hfcs, additives, preservatives, etc. in the house. They still get macaroni & cheese, for example, but they get a brand from Whole Foods.

You know, I've heard that unless you can homeschool them for most of their life (like Jinjee & Storm do) that a 100% raw diet might not be the best approach for kids because it makes them more sensitive and they usually end up trading food with friends or the teachers hand out candy (That drives me crazy!). Also, being able to eat an occasional pizza with friends at a sleepover is kind of nice socially.

So, right now, maybe the best approach for us is to set a good example and have plenty of produce available. We are planting the seed. When they see how awesome it makes us, they might switch on their own. Let's hope!

I haven't had a chance to get back to this thread in a few days and I'm wondering if anyone's still checking it.

What I personally mean by "craving" is not a "bad feelings we experience when our bodies attempt to cleanse from our past dietary mistakes." That may be the SOURCE of the craving, but not the meaning itself, and that's not what I'm attempting to discuss here anyway. What I mean is I'm thinking about cooked food all the time at times, and I want to eat it.

I was mistaken when I wrote "colonic" in that previous post. It should have been "enema". Karen, I am going to try one colonic and see if it helps just to get some of that old stuff out faster. I don't have the money to continue the practice anyway.

And, yes, I have two young children & a spouse I cook for. I do give them tons of raw, but since I have a lot of healing that needs to take place I need to focus my energy on that at present rather than trying to make everyone else's diets "perfect". Theirs is still a whole lot better than mine was growing up.

Is there anyone out there who's battled ongoing cravings and won? Bryan, if you're reading, let me know your experience. I've talked to you at the East Bay potlucks (argued with you even :-) ) but I'm curious what you experienced when you went 80-10-10. That's what I'm trying to do, need to do. How long did it take you to get over all that?

Thanks everyone!

Hi Novelista,

I am writing because I am having an intense time with cravings right now.

I started on a 21 day detox program that led up to a fast on juice and blended veggies. I have been totally raw the last two weeks and did three days of just juice and blended veggies.

Before this I was raw for periods but vegetarian with only small delves into dairy (once a week).

I am now so hungry for everything although I don't know what would satisfy my craving. I don't necessarily want cooked as I feel it would make me ill, but I just can't stop thinking about food!

I want to stay raw and so have been trying to get nutrients through juices and salads and energy from bananas. But I'm finding it does not subside my cravings, at least not yet. We'll see how things go in the next week after chewing my food rather than juicing it or blending it.

Good luck!

I saw another thread about chocolate cravings where someone says she sometimes puts the craved food in her mouth and then spits it out. She said that satisfies her cravings. So, the person with the chocolate cravings did just that and it worked! She also discovered that she was craving bitterness and is now eating bitter foods to satisfy her cravings.

Just thought I would mention it.

I also still think enemas or colonics help.

Good luck.

Novelista, for me the only way to stop my MENTAL cravings is to let myself free. When my attitude is that I can't or shouldn't have cooked because it's bad for me, then I really struggle mentally. However, when I let myself free to eat whatever I wish, then I discover that what I really want to eat is good stuff. When I have my freedom back, then the mental cravings dissapear.

Also, I find that when I have mental cravings and put sweet yummy fruit in my mouth, my body loves it so much, that my mind forgets about what it thought before and focuses on enjoying the pleasurable experience of eating yumminess instead.

Gosia


RawGosia channel
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2007 10:41PM by rawgosia.

> What I personally mean by "craving" is not a "bad
> feelings we experience when our bodies attempt to
> cleanse from our past dietary mistakes." That may
> be the SOURCE of the craving, but not the meaning
> itself, and that's not what I'm attempting to
> discuss here anyway. What I mean is I'm thinking
> about cooked food all the time at times, and I
> want to eat it.

**Explore the feelings in your body when you are experiencing a 'craving.' What words would you use to describe them? Are they pleasant? If they are, why can't you just sit with them? Obviously, it is the unpleasant feelings that we want to numb and suppress. This is withdrawal and healing. It is NOT the craving itself. A craving is something we've trained our minds to do -- to seek out comfort or suppression. That's why Gosia referred to it as a mental thing. Getting over cravings involves realizing what's really going on in your body and responding in a different way MENTALLY. What you think drives what you DO. When we're addicted to food, the thought of eating happens so automatically when we experience those feelings in our bodies that we don't even realize what we're doing. During recovery, it's the thought that counts, as that's what we're in control of. The feelings will continue to happen for as long as the body needs to cleanse the residues of past food choices. What we do in response to them is what we can and must change.

We want the foods we want because they have the desired effects --numbness, placation, re-stimulation, distraction. Whatever you want to call it, this is what people are after when they "crave" certain foods.

> And, yes, I have two young children & a spouse I
> cook for. I do give them tons of raw, but since I
> have a lot of healing that needs to take place I
> need to focus my energy on that at present rather
> than trying to make everyone else's diets
> "perfect".

I think this is a good plan. They will learn more simply by watching you anyway than by being forced, coerced, lectured, etc.

>
> Is there anyone out there who's battled ongoing
> cravings and won?

Yes. Everyone who has gone and stayed raw has experienced it, of course. It takes a very long time to declare victory over food addiction, and not very many people have done it. I've known a couple of them and I can tell you that what they experience post-addiction is complete liberation, quite beautiful to see, and worth every minute of struggle to get there. Fyi, I'm getting close but I still have struggles too, even after 7 years. At times it has even been constant and "ongoing", as you describe. I haven't completely learned to respond to my bodily sensations appropriately, but I realize that this is the key to success and I'm getting better at it. It's just a very, very slow process. Food addiction is "a sticky web", to quote one of the recovered food addicts I know.


> know your experience. I've talked to you at the
> East Bay potlucks (argued with you even :-) ) but
> I'm curious what you experienced when you went
> 80-10-10. That's what I'm trying to do, need to
> do.

Although 80-10-10 is great for people who've been raw for years without reaching the level they desire and sometimes even works short-term for certain very committed newbies, it can also be disastrous, especially for new raw fooders. Eating very low fat allows the body to cleanse quickly but the symptoms can often be a deal breaker. Most often when people try to go low fat too soon, they don't end up going back to eating some fat (which would be acceptable), they end up pushing themselves so far that they fall hard. Raw fat is so villified in the 8-1-1 philosophy that often people find it rather easy to rationalize going to cooked food instead. I'm not in favor of eating fats for physiological reasons because I know after 7 years of being raw that my body does not want or need fatty foods. However, fats keep cleansing manageable and this is very important to the transition process.

Best wishes,
Nora
www.RawSchool.com

When I started eating all raw (on a high fat raw diet), if I had a craving for some cooked foods, I would just make a fancy gourmet raw meal or go to a raw restaurant and get something. This sort of perpetuated the cravings, but since I had a means to satisfy them, it wasn't a problem.

My transition from all cooked to all raw was about 6 months. The beginning of eating all raw was when I first noticed cravings, and for first time had to consciously remember not to put things in my mouth that I would normally not even think twice about, say like a piece of candy at someone's desk, or cookies that may have been out in the workplace. With the raw gourmet stuff, the cooked food desire went away after a few months of being all raw.

When I first started 80/10/10, I quit going to raw restaurants and at the raw potluck I would only eat the foods I brought. But that got old after a few months, and also I was having difficulty with eating only 10% fat. So I increased my fat intake to 20%, and I allowed myself to indulge in raw restaurants whenever I felt like it. During that time, I was probably going to Urban Forage or the Oxygen Bar for raw foods once a week.

At the beginning of eating 80/10/10, since I wasn't going to raw restaurant or eating other people's gourmet raw foods, when later I started allowing myself to eat those gourmet foods, I really noticed how my body went into immediate detox if there was some condiment or spice in foods. This detox kept me from eating those foods often, and as I went to raw restaurants, my choices became simpler and simpler. Nowadays, I might go to a raw restaurant or potluck about once every 2 or 3 months. And when I do this, there is always a price to pay