If I ask a doctor this I'm sure he will tell me no without hesitation. However, I'd like to hear from all of you. A part of me is hesitant about going totally raw (I've been moving more and more in that direction for the past few years because it has felt right) since I've been conditioned to believe that breastfeeding women need to eat a variety of foods from different sources in order for their baby to get enough nutrients and such. Intuitively, though, this doesn't make sense because if my body enjoys raw food and is moving more in that direction then wouldn't my baby's body also prefer this? I'd really like to hear everyone's thoughts :-)

I wouldn't make any drastic changes at this stage, I think continuing on your progression, at your own pace, is just fine.

Cheers,
J

My personal opinion is no.
If you were already 100% raw, then it would probably fine (with minor modifications.) You should definitely eat more fatty foods, and just generally more nutritious food.

I say visit a naturopath. You don't want to be in any degree like the raw vegan crazies who killed their child by feeding him nothing but raw vegetables- even though this is not what you are asking.

My sister went by her milk production when she was nursing. Another option would be to send a milk sample for testing, if thats done anywhere. It probably would be expensive. I am curious to know if there has ever been a study on milk from raw mothers.

Here is a commentary on breastfeeding from a fruitarian mother.
[www.fruitgod.com]
Shes a wonderful person, she might be a good person to contact for an opinion on the topic.

jorgeben which case are you citing? the florida one or the georgia one ? irregardless .. both cases where the child died was fed a restricted diet .. one of wheatgrass and nutmilks, the other was fed storebought soy milk and applejuice.

neither were feeding the babies raw fruits and vegetables (as you state) or anything even close to a well balanced vegan meal

just a thought before making a statement like that , people read/here things like that and automatically make snap judgements.

to the original Blue-butterfly question, there is nothing wrong with adding raw fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds to your diet , as long as you are making lots of milk for your baby and not losing weight and maintaining a well balanced diet for both of you

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

I agree with Jose. I would not make and drastic changes DURING preganancy and initial breast feeding. If you wish...you can always slowly increase your quantity and variety of fresh fruits and vegetables....at a comfortable pace.

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

Jgunn,
I read about it on chetday.com. Which case, I don't know..

The point is that we shouldn't experiment too much when infants are involved.

i second all those who say don't go 100% raw vegan while breastfeeding.

add in as much raw as you are comfortable with, but then also eat a variety of things.

i found i really wanted juices and raw food while breastfeeding my first- but i had been 75% raw during my pregnancy. but if i wanted a cooked meal, or something non-vegan, i went for it.

i had to maintain a very high fat diet, and very high fruit as well. an odd combination. but to keep breastmilk quality up, it was what my body needed.

peace-

np jorgeben .. if you can link me the article you are talking about i can tell you which one is which but again .. neither of the parents in either case were feeding a balanced vegan diet which many of people are doing already.

to use that(those) people is a poor example .. anybody trying to exist on nutmilk and store bought apple juice is probablly going to suffer wether they are 1 day old or 100 years old

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Babies can survive on breastmilk alone for the first few years of life. As long as the mother is healthy, it contains a perfect balance of all the nutrients that the child needs. Any vegan/non-vegan food should be supplementary. Really, the only important thing is that the child gets all of the nutrients it needs to develop properly. It decide for itself, later in life, whether raw veganism is the way to go. It's only preference now is for complete nutrition.

Whatever the case, the parents did not take due caution. They 'intuitively' believed that it was ok to feed their child wheatgrass/nut milk, and in so doing killed the baby for ideological reasons. This is not what the OP intends (I hope) but her statement:
"since I've been conditioned to believe that breastfeeding women need to eat a variety of foods from different sources in order for their baby to get enough nutrients and such. Intuitively, though, this doesn't make sense because if my body enjoys raw food and is moving more in that direction then wouldn't my baby's body also prefer this?"
is kind of unreasoned to the needs of the child. If she were to adopt a perfectly balanced vegan diet, rich in fats and other maternal necessities, that would be great. But it sounds like she wants to go into the raw vegan thing willy-nilly, without consulting a doctor. The child will most likely survive whatever the OP does, but if you want it to thrive, then mere 'intuition' is not the way to go about it.

Wouldn't it be a tragedy if some kid whose mother breastfed him on a SAD diet turned out healthier?

To avoid this, what do you suggest the mother eat, and do you agree that she should at least consult a doctor/educated naturopath before going ahead with any plans?

If the mother's diet is deficient, the milk will be, too.

This goes for cooked or raw.

If it were me, I'd use nutrient databases and try to keep it as raw as possible while meeting RDAs, they are pretty tough for lactation. I'd use preformed DHA, too, the algae-based kind.

When I was pregnant with my middle child I read a book, and I don't remember the name or have a link, that said research was done in under developed countries on brestfeeding mothers and babies. The mother's milk was no less deficient than the breastmilk of woman in developed countries even though the mothers, themselves, were deficient. Nature made sure the babies were getting most of the nutrition.

Blue_butterfly, I would check out Jinjee's books on this subject. [www.thegardendiet.com]

I think educating yourself as much as you can will empower you to make the best decision.

Women in developed countries, on a SAD diet?

"Babies can survive on breastmilk alone for the first few years of life"

what? where did you find that? no baby could survive exclusively on breastmilk beyond a year. they do actually need some food eventually. they do grow some teeth that first year you know.
the body is an amazing thing. when breastfeeding you will be striped of whatever is needed for a healthy baby regardless of how it affects you. that's why it's so important to eat a healthy diet while nursing, so the mama's body keeps getting what it needs.
of course, it's wise to avoid toxins as they are passed from the breast but babies take what they need, they literally eat you alive! take it from a nursing mama.

girl, eat a healthy diet but don't do anything to detox yourself while you're nursing. good nutrition can't hurt you, it's all good.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2007 02:40AM by coco.

"Women in developed countries, on a SAD diet?"

That question is irrelevant because the point is babies will take what they need from the mom regardless of the mom's diet. It is the mom that becomes deficient, not the baby.

hmmm jorgeben i think you are misunderstanding what i was saying to you ...im not arguing that she shouldnt see a professional or seek out professional advice ..

but its my opinion it certainly wont hurt *her* to start eating more fruits, veggies, nuts and seeds, ... to her diet ..which is ultimately passed on to the breast feeding baby

when you stated that you hope she doesnt do what *those* parents did ..whichever one georgia or florida .. i was just putting across the point that in neither case was the child breast fed OR fed a balanced vegan diet ... in both cases there seems to be alot of disalusionment on behalf of the parents that they somehow thought they were doing the right thing

i guess i dont want to see *THEM* lumped in with all the raw vegan mamas out here who are eating good balanced diets and providing their infants with good nutrition.

...they were poeple who obviously and unfortunately didnt have a clue as to what is good and healthy for an infant ... despite all the information out there

i also think its unfortunate that people reading snippets of articles about these people come to the conclusion that all raw vegans are crazy

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

I don't think that raw vegans are crazy. Not in the least, compared to people that stuff their carts with soda and chips. I think that many are extremely knowledgeable and healthy, while others harm themselves more than they would with a food pyramid diet. If the OP is going to all the efforts of finding a balanced vegan diet, that's wonderful. As long as she takes all the necessary precautions...


pakd4fun,
There's a difference between merely providing the baby with what it needs, and providing it with way more than it needs so that it may thrive. We want to flood the baby nutrients so that its brain will grow large and so that it will have a strong constitution. Healthy, oragnic grass fed cows produce measurably better milk than grain-fed factory ones.. The same is true for humans. Not all breastmilk is equal.


coco,
On the weston price website. It says that humans traditionally breastfeed their children to the age of four, at which point they are fully weened onto solid foods. It's definitely important to introduce other foods though.

By the way... I'm not promoting milk in the previous post. Merely stating a fact.

"coco,
On the weston price website. It says that humans traditionally breastfeed their children to the age of four, at which point they are fully weened onto solid foods. It's definitely important to introduce other foods though."

yes. breastfed until four, certainly. but not Exclusively as you stated. i breastfed my little until 3.5 years but he was also eating food after age 1. no baby can survive on ONLY breastmilk into and beyond their second year. they need MORE than just breastmilk after that time. i think you may have simply misinterpreted the info you read.

Wow! Looks like we have some really different opinions when it comes to children....Stop a minute everyone....I grew up on a dairy farm in WI...What did we farmers do to get the fat content of the cows milk up??FED THEM FRESH GREENS...when cows were grazed on fresh pasture,the milk was the richest of anytime of the year!!the rest of the year,we fed dry baled greens(hay) corn and soybean meal,and the milk grew much more watery and 'blueish' colored,and the baby calves did not do as well either.Do you see what I'm saying?Look to nature! The cow does not have some "magical" ingredient in her body that she can make rich milk from greens that we do not posses ourselves..HOORAY! If a child were out in nature and became hungry,what do you think they would do?Pick some juicy berries perhaps,or would they try to drag logs into a pile,make a fire and kill the food so they would get sufficient nutrients to grow??We parents need to wake up,sit up,and start asking ourselves questions.We have become so used to listening to "experts" that we bury our own intuition in regards to what we know is best for our child.The "experts" have been very successfull in making this a nation of sick unhappy children. I have 6 children myself,all of them breastfed,and the last one 100% raw.I had a very toxic body,and different natural. doctors told me not to go raw either cause I would detox to heavy.Well,I became so sick trying to follow there advice that I nearly died and left a motherless baby because of it!My liver was just overloaded and nearly shut down.Mind you,I was on a 50% raw vegetarian diet at the time.I went 100% raw and guess what?? my milk became richer with more fat content than it had been with any of my other children!I had the happiest well adjusted baby ever! I noticed that the more greens I ate,the richer the milk and the longer my baby went between feedings because she was so satisfied(Ode' to GREEN SMOOTHIES!).Her development was phenomenal!!She was about 6-8wks ahead mentally than any of my other children.I am convinced that raw food makes "brain food breastmilk"your breast milk will not have any more enzymes than what the food that goes into your mouth has.Chia seeds are excellant for pulling the toxins out of your body without causing much at all for detox symptoms...they are also a great food for babies and young children as well as all of us!They also add even more richness to your milk.The Indians knew this,and used chia seeds as one of their staple foods.Here is a recipe from my new "Shining Light RAW RECIPES"which is available at www.cookbooks.com under specialty cookbooks item #071220...This pudding is so good and the more times per day you eat it,the less chance you have of toxins being passed through the breast milk if you are detoxing,as the chia seeds pull toxins out of the liver bile and into the toilet where they belong!
"I Love Tapioca Pudding"
4 c. water
1/2 c. almonds or pecans,soaked awhile and rinsed
Blend in blender until smooth.Strain if using almonds,but no need to if using pecans.Add:
1/3 - 1/2 c. raw agave nectar
1 tsp pure vanilla
1/2 tsp Real Salt or other raw salt
1/2 c. whole chia seeds(black or white)available at www.naturalremiteas.com
1/2 tsp ground nutmeg
Mix briskly with a wire whisk.Let Stand 15 min. and whisk again.Let stand 1-2 hrs before serving(if you can wait that long! Ours seems to dissappear long before that!)
Do a google search on chia seeds and children...great info. out there
"Here's to all you parents out there with children!!!!!"Get quiet and listen to your own intuition...it is NEVER wrong! Blessings...

coco: "yes. breastfed until four, certainly. but not Exclusively as you stated. i breastfed my little until 3.5 years but he was also eating food after age 1. no baby can survive on ONLY breastmilk into and beyond their second year. they need MORE than just breastmilk after that time. i think you may have simply misinterpreted the info you read."

The way you say that makes me imagine that a baby will drop dead on their first birthday if they're not fed any solids :-P I know that's not what you intended, but it made me smile :-) As far as solids go, from what I've read and from what my intuition tells me, it's really up to the child when it comes to when they're ready. Some babies want solids when they're 6 or 7 months of age (along with breast milk, of course), others don't care for it for quite awhile (I'm not sure what the upward age is in that regard, but I'd imagine it would probably be over a year old). The year old thing is arbitrary, in other words...people used to believe the same thing about the 6 month mark...that if all you gave the baby was breast milk after this point then they would die. My son is 10 months and he doesn't care for much other than breast milk...we've tried giving him some fruit and a few different veggies, but he's not all that interested. I plan on waiting for him to let me know when he's ready.

As far as everyone else's responses go, I really appreciate all the insights and advice. I don't plan on going totally raw over night...this has been a very slow process over the last few years. I simply became curious as to the implications of a totally raw diet while breastfeeding...it seems to me like that's the healthiest choice, as long as you're eating a wide variety of foods. As far as young children go, I'm not exactly sure what's "best" for them...again, I believe it's up to the child since everyone is different. I plan on introducing him to a lot of different healthy foods and see what he likes.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2007 05:33PM by blue_butterfly.

bb, my little didn't have "real" food every day until after one year. i don't think that's a magic cut off time and a baby will drop dead with only breast milk after that! that's pretty silly. i do think though that a child's nutritional needs change around that time and solid food becomes increasingly important and neccessary. you must admit that a child of three or four ingesting nothing But breast milk is a bit far fetched though?
the one year marker is pretty significant in so many ways, it's when most children begin to talk and walk as well.

kris, i would love to hear about you raw child's diet. there isn't a lot of raw baby info out there, i'm always looking.

Yes, it does sounds far-fetched. I didn't think that relied solely on breast milk after the age of two.. but hey, I'm a man, what do I know?


kris5194,
You must admit that cows are a bit different though? They can exist on pretty much a mono-diet of greens, while we single-stomached humans must eat a great variety of seeds/nut and other things in addition.
"The "experts" have been very successfull in making this a nation of sick unhappy children."
While I agree that the experts are wrong on many counts, it's more a problem of ignorant parents. Most zoo animals nowadays get better care than children.

I agree we are being guided in all kinds of wrong directions by the powers that be but it is solely the responsibility of parents to care for their children. It is also the job in society of seasoned parents to help guide the green ones. We all need to educate ourselves and then teach others. When I was trying to make the decision whether or not to homeschool, when my oldest was a baby, I told my mentor I was overwhelmed at the idea of her education being completely my responsibility and she said "it is anyway." I realized a whole lot about parenting in that one phrase. If I let myself be guided in the wrong direction, even if everyone else says it is the way, I am the one failing my child. I only wish I had read more things like this thread 12 years ago.

"I plan on waiting for him to let me know when he's ready. "

This is a very good plan, bb. And when your child refuses a food, it means he knows that he can't digest it. Trust his wisdom, it hasn't been trained out of him yet like it was with us adults. Mixing foods, disguising foods (green smoothies, etc.), coaxing or threatening a child to eat something s/he doesn't want is a violation of nature. Babies, like animals, know inherently what is food and what is not. Babies may put inedible things in their mouths as a way of exploring their surroundings but they will only EAT food.

Warm wishes,
Nora
www.RawSchool.com

"Babies may put inedible things in their mouths as a way of exploring their surroundings but they will only EAT food."
ah, my siblings were goofy. they ate coins, beads (stuck these up their noses too!), bugs, etc etc etc. i'm sure i did too but i don't remember ;D
i wish, padk4fun, that we had better parenting role models to learn from. thankfully there are lots of books out there but still, a living example is the best way to learn.

Blue Butterfly,

As Coco mentioned right before this, a living example is a great way to learn. If I were in your position I would consult with Dr. Rosalind Graham, partner of Dr. Doug Graham. Together they have a young daughter who is around 3-4 now. I met them as a family a year or so ago. Franchesca was conceived by 2 long term raw parents (over 20 for Doug and just short of 20 years for Roz) and vegan for longer. I don't have a business contact for Rosalind, but you might try through Doug's website FoodnSport [tinyurl.com]

In any event being a healthy vegan is a start and learning to refine and clean up your vegan diet will make your transition to Raw foods go more smoothly. By "cleaning up" I mean reducing the amounts of highly processed foods, and cooked oils. Begin by including more fresh fruit and vegetable meals. Reduce your dependence on grains for calories and replace those calories with simple carbs from fruits.

Above all begin to practice proper food combining for both your cooked and raw food. This will not only ease your raw transition but will improve your digestion, nutrient absorption, and elimination. Living Nutrition Magazine Website sells a handy 2 sided chart on food combining [tinyurl.com].

Lastly, don't be in a hurry to reach a 100% raw goal. The journey is half the fun filled with lots to learn and experience. After all it's about loving yourself enough to bring yourself to the highest state of health and well being possible.

Wishing you healthy success,

Blue butterfly,
A mother-to-be should eat healthy, yes. But not only for the baby! For herself too!!! Because the child will take everything from her body. Most often, deficiencies will only appear after the delivery (problems with teeth, etc...). So it is always good to be cautious.

I breast-fed my two children over a year. After that time, they needed solid food -
The coming of teeth is nature's call to let them move on to solid food.

Thank you, uti, that was inspiring and quite beautiful :-)

Cynthia--the idea that babies are meant to move onto solid food when their teeth come in seems a little odd to me. Not only because some babies are actually born with teeth, but also because this would mean that once a girl starts menstruating this is nature's way of saying that it's time to get pregnant. Every baby is different, there is no cut-and-dry time when they are meant to start eating solid foods...it's based on not only when they're physically capable, but also spiritually and emotionally.

"move on" as in stop breastfeeding? no. but "move on" as in start to experience other foods? yes, certainly. most babies begin to express an interest in food between 6 months to a year, right around the same time that teeth begin to show themselves. nature is a wonderful planner of natural events like that. and i do think that making good food samples available during that time is following the principles of baby-led parenting. i let my boy tell me when he was ready to try new things, with my guidance as a more experienced human of course. i mean, i didn't give him a chocolate cake with ice cream on his first birthday like most of my family wanted me to, though i am sure he would have eaten some of it if i had. he got a dehydrated sprouted rye loaf with avocado "icing" instead (which he mashed about and tasted ~~ kind of).
this girl is 20 weeks old on wednesday and though i have let her suck on wedges of apple and pear she has done no more than lick them. she doesn't show much interest, doesn't reach for or grab at what i am eating, watch my mouth with intense interest, make lip smacking sounds and motions. all things my son was starting to do by this age. but i anticipate that as her dexterity increases her natural curiosity will lead her to reach for something that i am eating while she is on my lap and shove it into her mouth (which is where any and everything that comes within grabbing distance ends up right now). then we shall see what she thinks of big people food and whether she is ready for some samples or no.