Hello friends, I have a slight problem and wonder if anyone has some insight or ideas for me. This summer, we moved to a new apartment. Ever since we moved there, I did not sleep well. But I don't want to blame the place itself, since I feel comfortable there. Well, the past 4-6 weeks or so (I don't track the time anymore for peace of mind/avoiding guilt...) I've been doing 100% raw the Gabriel Cousens way. I feel great! I feel good because my blood sugar is totally evened out if I don't eat that much fruit. I am effortlessly being 100% now. But my nights are tough. I started a pattern that repeats itself a few times per week.
Sleep at 11pm, wake up at around 4am and unable to get back to sleep. Then, after about an hour of tossing and turning, I fall asleep and have nightmares. The nightmares are OK to deal with but then it turned into WEIRD stuff like me thinking I'm awake but actually sleeping. I am involuntarily sitting up in the bed and sliding off, like someone pulling me off. Or, I feel someone is lifting me up towards the ceiling. I felt like I'm floating around the apartment but only in the bedroom area because I have a deep feeling of fear of what is behind the door.
My sister has a lot of interest in esoteric stuff and directed me to pages about out of body experiences (OBE) and what I read there is fitting my experiences accurately.
Shortly before "it" happens, I hear sounds, mostly music. Last night, it happened 3 times and 2 times I heard music, once Banjo play (why???) and then a kids' song. Immediately after that I am forcefully lifted out of my bed and come to a halt somewhere in the room and in complete silence.
It would be too long to describe everything but I don't like this! I don't want it. I don't believe there is a message behind it and I do believe this to be a "condition" that is not desirable because for me it is negative (a nightmare) and not positive.

According to what I have gathered, unwanted OBEs come from stress, illness or hypersensitivity. According to my sis, many of her fellow esoteric people do eat meat after big "experiences" through ritual and meditation to stay grounded. She suggested I eat meat as an immediate remedy to the prob and then think about how to continue - indicating that it is the diet that makes me sensitive to such things.

But my problem: I can not see myself eating meat. I also don't want to give up my 100% diet right now as I feel SO good. Unless it's like today where I'm worn out from lack of sleep and those experiences.
Does anyone have an idea what to do?
Have you had some sort of misdirected spiritual experience through raw?

I have been 100% or longer stretches than this before. As far as such experiences go, I have NO history of interest in any of those things, no knowledge or desire to experience them again...
If anyone has any ideas or suggestions, it would be great!
Sorry this got so long...

I find this topic very interesting. When I started taking Iodine as like many other people I had vivid dreams and I could wake up and go back to sleep and pick up right where I left off..and I could do that 3-4 times a night. It was very weird.

I don't do that so much anymore, but my doses are lower and I had added in some supplements like magnesium oxide that totally relax me for sleeping at night. I was taking the magnesium each time I woke up to use the restroom which was about 3x a night, but I take it during the daytime now. I am very relaxed for bedtime, and I can sleep very well without the weird dream sequences. I didn't like them much either.

You might try taking some magnesium oxide or your favorite type magnesium before bedtime, say 750 mgs. and see if that helps you. It would be interesting to know if it helps.

I also have gotten weird vibes in different houses I've lived in, some good, some not good. One place in particular, I woke up around 3 am with someone standing by the foot of the bed looking at me and I was frozen, I could not move, but I felt fully awake and aware. The creepy feeling has never left me, except that time has dulled the experience that goodness. I must have gone back to sleep or gone back into an unaware type sleeping mode after that. I didn't stay long in that apt.

I'm going to follow this thread and see what others have to say.

Love,
Prism

Interesting, because a few weeks back I bought liquid dulse in order to add some iodine to my diet!
I am taking calcium/magnesium supplements now and then because I work out a lot and sometimes feel it helps me, I'll look into that more deeply and see if I can find some magnesium that sits well with me. I have tried in the past but it makes me feel rather gassy hehe.
Sleep paralysis as you described it usually happens to me after the event of being pulled out of bed. I don't know what to make of it.
[en.wikipedia.org]

About the apartment, well the one I moved out of was one where I felt creepy a lot. I also had bouts of waking up at 3am and feeling horrified. It didn't help that I heard that 3am is the "hour of the devil" or something. If you google it, many people tend to wake up at 3 sharp. Wow! Anyways, I am not that much into *thinking about* those things though. I leave it to the Ghostbusters.
So now at the new place, I have not had a scary moment when by myself or so. That's why I'm so surprised about my active nightlife....

might i suggest some positive suggestion messages? these you say to yourself and expect the result you are aiming for. that's a little difficult to describe but reading some of the seth/jane roberts books on the nature of personal reality and perhaps a copy of loving what is by byron katie to alleviate the fear of the unknown might help. it sounds to me that your mind is creating a situation that demands your attention for some reason. i believe that even if your environment is a contributing factor in your experience, it can only have as much power and influence as you are open to it having.
good luck. better sleep to you.

hmm, just a thought. since you are up at 4 you could do some yogic practice or other meditation. maybe your need for sleep is decreasing. or going to sleep at 9 or 10 instead of 11. or rearranging the furniture in your sleeping quarters. a friend of mine is into feng shui and says furniture placement contributes greatly to the energy in a space. it's interesting at the very least.

lucky you, in my opinion. those are experiences i like to achieve through raw myself. i do believe that the diet is contributing, and the idea of eating meat would help them go away. i would welcome them, but if you are really trying to get rid of them then doing things before you sleep like overeating would probably work. meditation would help too, what your sis said about grounding is very important. also martial arts of some sort may benefit, or yoga. some for of exercise that is beyond becoming fit and lean. i honestly think that you are blessed to have these experiences. i only have similar ones when 100% for long periods of time or when using psycho-tropic drugs.

id also like to suggest you watch the film Waking Life. it is about lucid dreaming and the exact same experiences you are having. you might have to watch it a couple of times. but id suggest watching it when you wake up in the middle of the night. im not a big fan of the telley, but i think you'd get a lot out of seeing it.

I recommend Abraham-Hicks CDs, they demystify all the theories on OBE, non-physical, other realms, ghosts etc.

I do notice I remember my dreams alot more when I take my Magnesium-Calcium supplement.

[www.youtube.com]

lemoned

i hear you


been there

terrifying as heck

wish i could help

but don't have the skills

yet

Hi lemoned,

May I know if you are an atheist? If so, maybe next time when you're experiencing it again, you could try to chant the Buddha's name, which is "Namo Amitabha". Have faith in Buddha that Buddha will protect you under any circumstances.

BTW, please do not consume any meats. At this critical moment, it's very important for you to stay vegan.

Hope it helps.

All the Best,
Wong



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2007 09:18AM by blue_sky.

I just found a real interesting link which might help with understanding the situation lemoned [www.iacworld.org]

There are other ways to ground yourself other than eating heavy dense foods that also poison you. You can either engage your mind or your body in something else constructive or fun. Exercise. Play a sport. Do yoga. Meditate. Read. Surf the Internet. Talk to a friend or loved one. Share love. Clean your house or do a long neglected project.

I get weird vibes from a jacket I have & a couple pieces of jewelry. I have no idea why, because I really like them & I'd like to wear them.

I agree with Bryan. You can just find MORE POSITIVE and uplifting things to do.....and ACCEPT what occurs at night. If YOU don't have a problem WITH it......see what happens to the 'actual problem'. LOL.

-In any event...one always has two options:

1) Bring presence to the area they have chosen to be in.
2) Move to an area/avocation that you feel you CAN bring presence to.

-The important thing IS this 'full-presence' and 'radical-acceptance'.....in conjunction with pursuing your dreams with passion. It is only this pursuit of dreams that allows us to incorporate and accept the lesser vibrations of fear and lower desire. Just my thoughts.

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

Lemoned,

I really like Bryan's suggestions.

From a lesson that I am currently working on: I would take a look at what you're putting into your body and when, instead of looking for something that is missing. Heavier, denser, or high fat foods eaten with spices and condiments are often called "grounding". IMO that's because the body is using up a lot more energy to process them over a longer period of time than simple carbohydrates. The "grounding effect" is just the body shutting down physical and brain activity while it rallies all the energy it can muster to digest the food that was just consumed and eliminate the toxins. If this is happening on a daily basis the adrenal glands are also working overtime, which opens the door to a long list of health robbing issues.

As Bryan noted above and in previous posts, some of the things in heavier foods are, in effect, "poisons" because the body must eliminate them, as they have no significant nutritional value to your body's cells.

IMO, focusing on the meaning or significance of the experiences you're having are a misdirection. The core issue is that your peace is being disturbed and the real message is that you need to adjust your lifestyle and diet in a direction that will bring things back into balance.

Liquid dulse? I didn't know they had that. Can you tell me how much you take and what amount of Iodine they say it contains? Have you been taking it consistently and still taking it?

You might try not taking it for 2 days in a row and make notes on your night time activities. You can google lucid dreams and Iodine probably and come up with interesting things. But on the forum I was on for a while they all had lucid dreams and nightmares, weird dreams, and various dream states. I didn't like the nightmares at all, but that was at the start of taking the Iodine, and it did taper off..but the dreams are still pretty vivid and you can recall them for the most part too when you wake up.

I'm interested in the liquid dulse, since I might like to try it as a source for Iodine. Do you add it to anything, like smoothies?

Love,
Prism

Thanks for your messages, everyone!
I'm feeling better today, just had a regular night's sleep! If this comes up again I have some strategies which I'm glad people here suggested. They are: not being overcome by fear, trying to be present, trying to bring "good vibes" into the situation by saying positive words, staying conscious so I don't slip away into a nightmare.
Above all that, I will not try to float around the house I do plan to consciously return into my bed and continue my beautysleep.

Coco, yes I do believe I must look more into this. I was going to brush it off but my sister says that I may be stressed from something else. Even though on the surface, things are going great right now.
I don't see myself getting up at 4 and meditating etc. as I am actually still dead tired but can't fall asleep because my thoughts are going round in my head. I am taking homeopathic medicine and bach flowers to target this problem but it doesn't always help. I did move the bed in a 90 degree angle but it didn't help much. Switching the room is not really an option since the other rooms face the street and are louder.

allone01, well I would embrace this if it was for once not impacting my life that much. Yesterday I would barely function because I was worn out from lack of sleep and that intense feeling of terror. It ranges from being lifted up against my will to almost being thrown at the ceiling to falling down through the bed. When I'm out of bed, I see the room as a distorted reality and sometimes (this is hard to describe) something that looked like one of my kids that acted as if it was sick and I felt that it wanted me to come there. I knew it was not my son but I went towards it anyways and then it made a horrible grimace and disappeared. Does that make clear why I don't wish to go through that again I now realize it's not something from the outside, but my mind creates those things.
I actually do plan to take yoga classes starting January, we'll see what that does.

F1, yes I'd like to look more into that. I'm lad to be at the stage that I don't believe in ghosts as in the Blair Witch or what not. I think my mind creates something on the one side, and the rest is astral scum that can not harm anyone...

La Veronique, thanks anyways!

Blue Sky - I'm not an atheist, but I don't follow any specific religion. I have heard about chanting or saying a positive deity's name or a prophet's name will be always helpful and grounding in a situation like this, but at that moment, I totally forgot about it lol! I will try to remember this amongst other ideas I have gotten through this thread should this situation come again.

Lightform, thanks, I've read it! I read a lot on the subject last night...

Bryan, I'm actually doing most of those things except yoga. I follow the motto "if you want to get something done, ask a busy person".But aside of that, yes I do not think about going back to meat. I think it is a wake up call that something is not right, even if it seems like it.

Sunshine, are those second hand? I would not wear or use anything that makes me feel weird :/

David, I agree. If this occurs again, I plan to stay conscious and present. My fear took me straight down to hell in a handbasket so to speak. I had to bring out my E. Tolle stuff again this morning to mentall prepare to accept and stay present in whatever will happen again.

Uti, I am glad you also point this out. A few years ago and I would have thought that those are ghosts and that there is a meaning behind this and that I am "going nuts" or being possessed. Fortunately, now I am more aware that those things come through ourselves and are a sign that something is wrong. IF one leaves the body, it should be a positive experience, not going down the ladder towards

Prism, well I went to Whole Foods and asked for Iodine. The guy showed me this and it comes in a small bottle. It's this one:
[www.iherb.com]
Really cheap and you take about 4 drops a day. It is liquid dulse but the iodine may not all be from dulse but added like they do in salt. I just drip it into whatever, it doesn't have much taste.

The first time I tried to go raw I did 100% for 3 months, all fresh fruits and veggies, making only guacamole and salsa from fresh live foods, the rest came as they were.

By the end of the 3 months I was sleeping about 5 hours a day but feeling completely rested when I woke. I had a home renovation project I was working on between work hours that I got a lot done on. My dr. at the time said this was normal for some people on healthy dietary habit changes and it wasn't anything to worry about. He said that the 8 to 9 hour sleep per night guideline was more for people ingesting high amounts of processed foods to allow their bodies greater time to heal. He also said that trying to sleep when your body isn't asking for it causes some pretty wild trips. He theorized that healthier people need less time per night. I wish I had not caved in and quit the raw.

Quantum eating has some interesting concepts and theories that may help if you feel the need to get more sleep. There's also the theories of excess use of artificial lights causing us to have problems with sleep and our bodies.

This is just my thoughts and experience. Thanks for letting me share.

[rawfoodtrip.blogspot.com]
[jugglingforjoy.com]

lemoned, your post brings something to mind.

after being raw for a while many people experience a cleansing period that may include severe symptoms (skin, elimination, and other bodily issues) even though things have been moving along wonderfully. perhaps this is a similar situation for you. things have been smooth sailing, you are doing well, at peace with yourself, happy and calm. in a terrific state of mind for dealing with an old emotional hurt and so it is coming out of hiding now to be dealt with once and for all.

it can't hurt to give yourself some positive affirmations at night before you go to sleep. ask yourself verbally for what you want (a deeper understanding of what's happening, for it to ease up or go away, whatever you feel) and see what happens.

Are you including spices in your diet that can stimulate your nervous system? Some people have problems with MSG that includes products with MSG but with different names including the generic term 'spices' among the ingredients on the label. Some actually describe these chemicals as exitotoxins.

Also the time of morning you describe these experiences is when your liver tends to be active, as different body systems and hormones peak and subside their activities at different times of the day and/or night.

Wishing you vibrant health

Lemoned: I did Gabriel Cousens' program and while ultimately it didn't get me what I wanted and there are a lot of things I don't like about it, I did a juice fast at his retreat center and had some kundalini experiences during that time. He offers spiritual guidance and actually has a lot of experience dealing with "problematic kundalini awakenings". Energetic awakenings can definitely be hastened by playing wtih raw. Since you are following his program, you might want to read some of his writings on this topic or talk to him about it.

.....

I just had a weird experience last weekend: I normally eat mostly fruit and greens, sometimes some nori and nuts or seeds but I generally never eat garlic, onions, salt (besides nori), spices or oil. Every few months I go to the city and indulge in 1-3 nights of raw gourmet dining at various raw restaurants--the works! I did this last weekend for 3 nights in a row.

Consistently I have noticed that when I eat that way, I wake up remembering really violent dreams. I don't know which ingredients are responsible although I know it is common for people to find garlic & onions to create anger and irritation and lack of peace in their beings. I still love indulging every once in a while in these foods, but it does make me wonder about the dreams.

It's like what you were saying lemoned: Is there some deep spiritual significance to the dream, or is it just because I ingested poison and my body/mind is doing what it's doing around that? Interesting.

Love,
Uma





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2007 04:06AM by uma.

Lemond I forgot to mention, I also used to have blood sugar problems and did low fruit for several years. Then I learned that I can actually do really high fruit if I'm willing to do pretty low fat, and now I'm a fruitaholic.

Love,
Uma

Lemoned,
There is a sikh bedtime prayer. Its kind of long, but if you ever want to try it, you may want to read it. I found a great deal of peace from reading sikh prayers. Or by simply meditating on a name of god.

[www.sikhs.org]

According to this page, its the lung or the liver meridian that has an imbalance. [www.llewellyn.com]

According to this stress and 'eating poorly' will affect the liver meridian.
I just read something interesting:

"...The amount of blood you have in your body will determine how well you sleep. It's said that "blood houses the mind and the heart houses the blood!" meaning if someone is blood deficient (low in blood) that the mind (spirit) will not be anchored and will float all over the place and sleep will not be restful. When someone is heart blood deficient they will experience anxiety and palpitations as a result causing insomnia...."

[scott-untoldtruths.blogspot.com]

Its curious that the idea of the mind floading around is mentioned. Do you feel palpitations? Do you get up frequently? The page mentions many possible causes for poor sleep.

Coco, I think this might be part of the problem...I do tend to actually dislike- or more positively - *avoid* the term "detox" as I am tired of it but it can be seen as part o the journey. I know that there is a lot of my old baggage that has not even been opened up yet but will be a tough time dealing with. Maybe this is the time to prepare for it.
I did positive affirmations a while back and even though I did not feel the need for them then, I think I do need them now

Pistachio - Not really. I did make nut patees a while back that had onion and garlic but I did it mostly to be able to "feed it" to my husband. I don't like either of those but I am very big on the salt, even before raw. If I eat MSG, consciously or without knowing, I get a rash either on my eyelid, hand or armpit lol. All of those are bad so I do my best to avoid them!

Uma, wow I first of all had t google up Kundalini Awakenings haha. I'm the type of person that likes 1)being raw 2) working out 3) watching Jackass on TV.
OK ok that is not true at number 3) but still. I think I am a spiritual baby that just learns stuff right now. I do get a lot of inside info through my sister and that is great. I'd be totally lost if I would not, and if I had not access to a forum like this!!
As far as Cousens goes, I did not exactly follow his recipes but more the theoretical stuff.Then I went ahead and made my own salads and so on.
Since 2 weeks I have started to eat persimmons and such for breakfast again and felt fine. I just can not see myself going any fruitier than that right now. I am actually fine being the "oil and salt rawfoodist" right now. <---I sometimes think this is a derogatory term used by fruitarians and then I burst out laughing, all in good humour.
Well reading the 80-10-10 book is still on my list so I may have more learning t do, which is a good thing

Mislu, thanks for this. I will print this out tomorrow at work As far as palpitations go, no I don't have them during the night, thankfully. Only during the day, when I am nervous or something startles me.
The symptom I have right now (waking up 3-4-5ish and not sleeping anymore until 6ish) is very new to me. I used to shrug it off when other people told me about this problem.
I don't know anything about Sikh right now. As I mentioned, I am a spiritual baby, This years' resolution had been to become more spiritual but I dropped it after a while. The subjects I got in to were western mystery traditions like Kabbalah and Tarot. None of which I *seriously* followed.

Lemoned,
If you are interested in Sikhism, here is a link.
[www.sikhs.org]
It seems like a pretty straight forward religion. Good works, earning an honest living, prayer/meditation. but there is the long hair thing, and the comb, knife, turbin etc...I don't know what all is exactly required. But i have read some of the prayers and scriptures and I find them peaceful, optimistic, uplifting. I thought of the bedtime prayer when I read your post.

If you find the TCM information interesting, you may consider seeing a licenced specialist. Indian medicine is probably closer to veganism, and raw foodism, so that is another option. Dr. Cousens practises a sort of 'Raw-you-veda'. So maybe you can find someone associated with him by one of his webpages.

"...The amount of blood you have in your body will determine how well you sleep." hmm, are you fond of wheatgrass by any chance? chlorophyll is an excellent blood builder!

lemoned, here is an exercise that is brilliant in it's simplicity;

gaze into your eyes in a mirror and say "lemoned, I Love You. You are a beautiful person and i truly appreciate who you are."
many people can't get past the I Love You part, it's not something that we express to ourselves very often. we tend towards self-critisicm more than anything. try it and see how you feel, it's worth it to keep doing it daily until you are comfortable with it (it doesn't make you laugh, cry, embarassed etc). this is a very powerful exercise, very grounding and healing and, i think, creates a deep sense of security and rightness.

really, i think we are all spiritual babies. but that is a path not a destination and we are all walking along at our own pace.

Coco, I remember you recommended it at some other point and I actually tried it heh. I agree it is hard to overcome the awkwardness. With all the daily routines, I stopped after a while. But I have a necklace from my childhood that has several stars on them dangling from my rearview mirror. So when I crawl my way up through traffic on the way to work, I sometimes use it like a rosary of some sorts. One star for each kiddo, for my man and one for myself and the fifth star to keep us all together and healthy and happy....haha something I made up but it works for me.

awesome! you should see my mom's rearview mirror, it is FULL of dangling doodads, bits and bobs. she says the hail mary and chants the buddhist mantra "nam yogo renge kyo" every time she is crossing the border (at least twice weekly). i guess she spends enough time in her car that it's a secondary home of sorts, funny!

Hi Lemoned
I have lived through similar experiences to those you mentioned. (OBE, plus visions, premonitions Etc)
I had lots of difficulty dealing with it in my early teens, which took me on a number of spiritual paths.
I did lots of work on it, came to a place where i felt comfortable enough to understand and work with it.

I have been eating raw vegan now on and off for over three years.
I found that each time i ate a totally raw diet these experiences become much stronger and more frequent.
I really was thrown out of my comfort zone!
I would find myself in an almost trance like state, almost constant OBEs visions premonitions, whilst awake, i found it really hard to deal with but knew on some level that it was ok.
It usually lasted about a week to ten days after eating totally raw.
It was very difficult to deal with. I was only getting an hours sleep a night. My mind was very busy, but my body was exhausted.

I posted about my experiences on this site as i figured that if i was experiencing these things then others here were likely to have experienced similar.
I did try eating steamed or baked veggies but when i returned to a totally raw diet then i had to deal with the same issues again.

If you are eating spicy food i suggest you stop. As regards grounding, there are lots of ways to do this without eating heavy foods.

The simple things that really helped me was to spend as much time out in nature as i could.
I also stepped up my exercise, drank plenty of water and forced myself to set a little time away each day to meditate.
I now have many strategies that help me deal with these experiences.

I no longer look upon these experiences as unwanted.
I have come to accept them and treasure the teachings contained within them. ( I still find some of it difficult to deal with when im going through it!)

Im not suggesting that our experiences are exactly the same, yet i do identify with your recent experiences.
I would suggest that you be wary of those people or books who wish to interpret these experiences for you.
These experiences are unique to you.
Also be careful about listening to those who want to help you 'fix' this 'problem' however well meaning the advice may be.

lemoned, take care and be gentle with yourself.

You are welcome to PM me if you wish

Coco, yes that is too funny! The things people do in the car...I spend a lot of time in it, too and I listen to audio books, say some affirmations, sing....I think I will add some stuff to my mirror!

Hi Lorretta, thanks for your advice. I remember as a teen I was enthralled with the book "Carrie" and wanted to be like that, but for all the wrong reasons I guess. However, I've never had those kind of "abilities" that exceed that what is considered normal...which is for example, waking up a few seconds before the alarm goes off, thinking bout someone and then they call....small, funny things.
I love nature and I wok out a lot. In fact, I want to do less strenuous things now, I think my fatigue or exhaustion has been also part of this "issue".
What you describe would scary the heck out of me....I guess it takes a long time, like you said - years- to come to terms with such experiences.
The good news though is that since I've shared my concerns here and with others, I am way less scared and I slept quite good not worrying about it....thanks!!

Hi Lemoned
Im so pleased to hear that you have managed to get some worry free sleep.

blessings
Lorretta