Hi Shaine :-)

I'm wondering if you'd get more of the results you want if you dropped to lower reps with higher weights - it's generally believed high reps (over eight) build strength while lower reps (5 or 6) with heavier weights build size.

I wouldn't want to lift every day, even if it was alternate muscle groups - esp. if I was trying to build size. But you know you better than I do obviously :-)

Allie =^..^=

[www.stronger.me.uk]

I don't know if either of us knows better...

I'd like to do lower reps with higher weight as you suggest. I worry about the stress on my joints and tendons though, even though it seems my muscles can handle it. I have trouble with the real heavy weights--especially the ones I use for my back and legs--because my hands get too weak to hold them, well before I exhaust the muscles groups I'm isolating.

What do you do for your workouts?
heavy or high reps?
how often?
I'm interested in strength first, but I guess I was equating that with building...
if it's natural, aren't they linked?

measure twice, cut once.

"In Watermelon Sugar the deeds were done and done again as my life is done in watermelon sugar." ~r.brautigan

I make paintings

Cheers Shaine, I know what you mean about the budget thing, throws you out a bit eh! I have not seen Byrd Baylor I will have a look.
What age childre do you teach? my hubby is a art teacher.

Self portrait is about A1 size the tree is A3 & the stones, the other two are A5.

Trying to keep myself motivated working those muscles, just finding I am so busy, must do a exercise plan! Take care Ju

I'm just jumping in here and may be missing something you guys may be discussin', buutttt, Can this help??

Strength: 1-5 reps
Strength/Hypertrophy:6-8 reps
Hypertrophy/Strength: 9-12 reps
Hypertrophy/Endurance:13-15 reps
Endurance: 16+ reps

If you do 5 sets of 5 reps at your 1 or 2 shy of max you'll acheive more strength gains. If you do 1 or 2 short of your max and are hitting 3 sets of 8 reps you are going more for size or Hypertrophy while gaining some strength.
Adjust your weights accordingly for your goals then and this is a basic starting point commonly used.

thanks tanawana! that kind of break down is exactly what I needed.
I do well with clear cut figures and explanations.

bracken.
I used to teach 1-3rd grade art...in Oregon.
but here in NY (and New England in genereal) I need a masters, which I'll be finished with in july. in the meantime, I had elementary students this fall. In the spring I'll be teaching photography in an arts-specific high school. (a little nervous about this actually...in fact, it kind of spurred me to realize just how much being small affects people's first impressions)
it's kind of a fantasy of mine that my husband will be an art teacher...lucky you.

measure twice, cut once.

"In Watermelon Sugar the deeds were done and done again as my life is done in watermelon sugar." ~r.brautigan

I make paintings

I went to a talk last night by Tonya Zavasta. She has been raw vegan for 10 years and is 50 and looks fantastic! Her talk was very inspirational and entertaining - she was quite funny.

Well, anyway, she said that to gain weight that you need to eat less often. Eating 6 meals or snacks a day or eating all day long keeps your metabolism up and eating less often lowers it so you can gain weight. She now eats 2 meals a day and does not look too skinny - she looks just right. But she said it took awhile for her to work up to 2 meals a day. Her second meal is over by 2 in the afternoon.

Just wanted to share what she said.

Karen DeVeaux
[www.healingtype1diabetes.typepad.com]

karennd, this only works for certain body types. i am a fast metabolizer and no amount of fasting or calorie restriction has ever even made a dent in that. some people can eat next to nothing and gain weight, i am the opposite. my body needs a lot of fuel to keep up with the calories i burn.

what was is gabriel cousins called people like me? i think fast oxidizer, can't remember for sure right now but i can try to find the notes from that lecture. it was a long time ago though. he said david wolfe is a slow oxidizer and that's why he can eat the way he does (not much in a day from what i observed).

I'm sure we all start at a different point.

But what she said made sense to me because they are always saying the reason that people gain more weight back than they lost after a diet is because they slowed down their metabolism by starving. And also, a lot of weight loss gurus are now saying we need to eat every 3 hours so our metabolism doesn't slow down.

Take it for what it's worth, not much I'm sure. ;-)

Karen DeVeaux

[www.healingtype1diabetes.typepad.com]

thanks karen and coco. I'm not wure I want to slow down my metabolism to gain weight though. I'd rather gain it by building with great food.

I also couldn't possibly only eat two meals a day--least not yet. I love that I can just grab fruit anywhere anytime. I'd be exercising too much will over my impulses to be happy at this point.

it's an interesting suggestion, thanks for helping.
But I haven't dissolved my connection/love of eating yet. I don't know if that's a goal of mine either. I'm oay with my attachments.

measure twice, cut once.

"In Watermelon Sugar the deeds were done and done again as my life is done in watermelon sugar." ~r.brautigan

I make paintings

alliecatt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Shaine :-)
>
> I'm wondering if you'd get more of the results you
> want if you dropped to lower reps with higher
> weights - it's generally believed high reps (over
> eight) build strength while lower reps (5 or 6)
> with heavier weights build size.
>
> I wouldn't want to lift every day, even if it was
> alternate muscle groups - esp. if I was trying to
> build size. But you know you better than I do
> obviously :-)

I think your mistaken kinda. For the typical eater, I think generally heavy weight/ low rep is good for strength and medium weight/ 8-12 rep is for size (bodybuilder muscles). However some size can obviously be gained from heavy weight because it uses the type IIb muscle fibres. These fibres are never trained in most exercisers.

But for a raw foodist it would make sense to work your way up to the point where you can use heavy weights (enough weight that you cant do more than 5 reps), because raw foodists tend to not be able to make bodybuilder muscles. I can elborate if that dosen't make sense...

I agree with ya WorkoutMan and would like to hear more of your take on things. I always base my workouts on my own experience and the typical mindset of SAD eaters. Which is always a read between the lines kinda thing as you know :O)

workout man--
what about lifting everyday/alternating muscle groups?

I've been limiting cardio to every other day.

like I said before, it's hard for me to lift anything so so heavy, because my tendons and hands give out beofre my muscles. ha.

thanks

measure twice, cut once.

"In Watermelon Sugar the deeds were done and done again as my life is done in watermelon sugar." ~r.brautigan

I make paintings

I bypass cardio to only what my sessions may offer as an offhand. I'm thin, so the last thing I need is more cardio:O) I get enough exercise to classify as being fit also. You can consider higher intensity 20 minute sessions instead to retain muscle, size, etc and give you great conditioning. This I really recommended for those wanting to maintain their current weight, size and what have you and keep fit. A proper session will give you quite a challenge and all that is needed too.

Don't lift super heavy - Find "your" limit for say 6-8 reps and do 5 sets of 5 reps for example. Don't go beyond your limits.

i don't want to do cardio to lose weight, only to increase my lung and heart function which i think suffered greatly living and biking in the city for so many years. cardio is ok everyday, and so is alternating lifting. i have to do strengthening exercises for my wrists and ankles as they can't handle the lifting for very long at all.

shaine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> workout man--
> what about lifting everyday/alternating muscle
> groups?
>
> I've been limiting cardio to every other day.
>
> like I said before, it's hard for me to lift
> anything so so heavy, because my tendons and hands
> give out beofre my muscles. ha.
>
> thanks

Hi Shaine
If you have the energy and your not actually injuring yourself, lifting everyday/alternating muscle groups is ok. If you have alot of energy, I dont see a problem with it. Its all about the energy you have to go around. Im still transitioning to the raw diet so I haven't personally experienced hard training after detox and when my body is good to go. I am a certified personal trainer though so I know some things about exercise even though I have not really experienced it raw yet.

It sounds like working on your grip strength would be benificial. To start working on your grip, you can get a pail and buy a big bulk sack of rice and fill the pail. And then burry your open hand in the rice and then squeeze and grip the rice while twisting your wrist (remember to twist both clockwise and counterclockwise. Do this till your forearm gets tired then switch hands, you might do it 3 times for each hand. Also to balance that exercise stick your closed fist in the rice and open your hand, extending all the fingers. This will fatigue the top of your forearm. Try doing this rice thing three times a week.

Im a big believer in keeping balanced workouts while weight training. This will help you avoid injuries like shoulder impingement. This means that if your doing abs exercise, you should also do an exercise for the lower back. If your doing a bench press, you should also be doing a row for the upper back. etc... Many trainees dont do this. You gotta keep it ballanced.

So are you alternating upperbody with lowerbody?

"I bypass cardio to only what my sessions may offer as an offhand. I'm thin, so the last thing I need is more cardio:O) I get enough exercise to classify as being fit also. You can consider higher intensity 20 minute sessions instead to retain muscle, size, etc and give you great conditioning. This I really recommended for those wanting to maintain their current weight, size and what have you and keep fit. A proper session will give you quite a challenge and all that is needed too.

Don't lift super heavy - Find "your" limit for say 6-8 reps and do 5 sets of 5 reps for example. Don't go beyond your limits."

This is decent advice. However I always like to ballance weights,cardio,and yoga. Even if one week Im working on my strength I still do some cardio and yoga.

thanks.

I alternate arms+back/upper body against legs/butt. I do abs on both days, but focus on hard training my abs on that days I do my back (whereas I do planks and core/balance poses on the leg days).

I really love cardio. At the gym, I'm less inclined to overdo it. But when I'm visiting my parents in the woods and can run....I'd go twice a day if my folks didn't want to see me so much.

I like the rice idea. what about those little spring grips that climbers (e.g. my brother) use to strengthen their hands?

as far as my joints and tendons, I'm at a loss. with some exercises I feel the stress of the weight, without the weight being too much for lifting. i know form has a lot to do with it, but is it possible to strengthen those structures somehow?

measure twice, cut once.

"In Watermelon Sugar the deeds were done and done again as my life is done in watermelon sugar." ~r.brautigan

I make paintings

Tendons will adapt to heavier loads over time. They just dont adapt as quickley as muscles. Id say just keep it up and eventually your tendons will adapt and then you'll be able to go heavier. In the meantime you can develop your grip. The spring grips are good. I like to use both the rice and the spring grips. The grips can be more challenging maybee try the rice first. The rice is good for an ankle twisting workout also. Thers lots of other wrist/forearm exercises, let me know if you want more ideas. Keep it up it sounds like your doing great so far.

If you are having joint related troubles, ever consider body weight exercises?? "Might" be of help in those areas. They can be extremely challenging if needed. Resistance is resistance.

Usually alternating body parts are more for experienced lifters. I suggest starting out to stick to full body routines and develop a body working as one unit and build off that first. You want to develop your overall strength along with tendons, etc. carefully as to avoid troubles down the road.

Also WM, when I gave the 5x5 example - that was for lifting or resistance exercises only. That coupled with a conditioning routine maintains muscle, size, etc. better than adding cardio. If that is your goal ofcourse. It accomplishes the same as cardio also.

Yoga can be used to cover any of those bases depending on how you practice also. Yoga is great stuff :O)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2007 11:43PM by tanawana.

somehow I think that getting my heart rate up and the deep heavy breathing--really sucking on the oxygen--can't be replaced. I have no evidence to back it up, but it's feeling I get from nothing else. I understand what your saying with the 5x5 doing the conditioning that cardio does though. I give it a try and see if I'm not dying for a good session on the bike.

I've been lifting weight since I was 18 (six years ago). Just recently though, seeing improvements in strength and size have motivated me to work on this with more focus. That's why I decided to alternate days. I don't feel I get enough from an hour on my whole body vs. an hour on top or bottom.

I definitely do have the energy for it, as workoutman mentioned. I feel like I could do twice as much if it weren't for time/boredom.

measure twice, cut once.

"In Watermelon Sugar the deeds were done and done again as my life is done in watermelon sugar." ~r.brautigan

I make paintings

WorkoutMan posted:
> I think your mistaken kinda. For the typical
> eater, I think generally heavy weight/ low rep is
> good for strength and medium weight/ 8-12 rep is
> for size (bodybuilder muscles). However some size
> can obviously be gained from heavy weight because
> it uses the type IIb muscle fibres. These fibres
> are never trained in most exercisers.
>


When I had my bodybuilding stint EVERYONE did heavy weight and low reps to gain both immediate strength and build muscle. We always started out no more than 8 reps, typically 5 and worked our way down to 1 rep. This was at a professional institution with body building coaches.

While body type and metabolism played a part in how well the individual was able to bulk up (those of us who didn't "shoot up", the work out didn't change for building muscle, and was still the same in the late 90's.

Unless they've come up with new science recently that cancels out decades of body building wisdom and experience then it should still be the same today.

Glen F

[rawfoodtrip.blogspot.com]
[jugglingforjoy.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2007 06:01AM by Fud.

I actual mean to do the lifting on opposite days of conditioning. The same day is too much. A good conditioning session will elevate your heart rate far more than a cardio session too. I like them due to the shortness of them and I don't want to lose any strength or muscle I gain from my lifting days.

Lifting for a good hour is very long I think. That could be a reason for the tendom trouble maybe shaine?? I'm just guessin'

The 5x5 is just a thought, there are many combinations. I generally try to hit approx. 25-32 total reps for strength with a little muscle gain added. But you can use 5x5, 6x4, 3x8 or if you want more of an endurance workout you can go for 4x12 and lower the weight lifted. Strength would be the opposite with heavier weights and go for a 5x3, 7x3 perhaps.

Ofcourse being raw changes alot of things too :O)

***
Fud posted:
When I had my bodybuilding stint EVERYONE did heavy weight and low reps to gain both immediate strength and build muscle. We always started out no more than 8 reps, typically 5 and worked our way down to 1 rep. This was at a professional institution with body building coaches.
***

Keep in mind it's not only the reps but the total "volume" that is part of the equation too. This routine scheme is more of a strength routine as stated. As with strength, you can't help but build some muscle with it. Professional bodybuilders wanting size over strength tend to focus on a higher scheme though, if that's the goal.



Jeeez, I never used to know this stuff, but being raw has forced an education on me for sure :O)

keep in mind also that the more reps you do per set, the more endurance you're building. Endurance conditions the cellular walls of the muscles to be long and skinny.

Heavy weights tear down the muscles and rest periods allow them to heal. The heavy weight regime builds thick, fat cells, i.e. thick fat muscles. You may get some bulk with medium range but the ultimate bulk is put in with heavy weights and then just before competition the weight is reduced and reps are increased to provide muscle definition.

I can let you borrow my training manuals and muscle and fitness magazines if needed.

[rawfoodtrip.blogspot.com]
[jugglingforjoy.com]

Bumping because thread is an interesting read. I have a daughter who needs to gain.

Mindy