I don't like vinegar--never did, even when I was raw. But, last night my daughter didn't finish her salad (she and her Daddy put raw ACV on their salads) and she put it into the fridge. I saw it there later and thought the lettuce looked so good that I figured I'd go ahead and eat it if the vinegar taste wasn't too strong. So, I ate it and it wasn't so awful, but I do love fresh organic lemon juice on my salads so much that I can't imange others not choosing lemons over ACV.

Anyway, I finished her salad and then in the middle of the night I woke up with my joints hurting--particularly in my right wrist. Instantly, I started reviewing all that I'd consumed in the past 24 hours. I've been raw for about two years, 100% for a little over one, and the joint problem went away quite quickly. The only thing that was different in my diet was the apple cider vinegar.

I woke my husband early this morning to tell him all about the joint pain. I told him I found the answer to his question about why his joints hurt even though he's eating a much healthier diet. He found it a bit hard to believe, since he's read so much about the organic, raw apple cider vinegar being a health tonic. Then he looked it up in Doug Graham's 80/10/10 book (which I'm slowly reading) and told me just a bit ago that ACV is actually a toxin. I think I've read other things saying that vinegar isn't very healthy for the body, but I had no idea it was considered a toxin.

So, my body seems to be able to detox quite quickly these days! This morning I have the joint pain, but along with it my tongue is coated a bit and my sinuses are a tiny bit congested. My body is working quickly to rid my body of the ACV toxin. Yay! My joints, particularly my wrist, are quite painful and I look forward to that fading by the end of the day (or before!).

Has anyone else had a problem with ACV?

After a few weeks in to switching to 95-100% raw, I consented to eating some salad someone had prepared for me. I hadn't had any vinegar since switching over, and I instantly got a very, very bad ache in my stomach, which passed eventually. I now avoid vinegar like the plague.

Fortunately, fresh lemon or lime on a salad I find much yummier. =)

I have read from various sources vinegar, even "raw" apple cider vinegar, has a lot of toxic properties.

I used to LOVE vinegar. really really love. I ate it all the way up until this fall. I hadn't had it for a few weeks, and then I used it on a salad of spinach, and my stomach was so angry. I'm totally floored all the time by what my body can communicate.

measure twice, cut once.

"In Watermelon Sugar the deeds were done and done again as my life is done in watermelon sugar." ~r.brautigan

I make paintings

I didn't know there was such a thing as raw apple cider vinegar but after reading what you all have written I guess I should just stay away from it. But is there any other kind of raw vinegar? Maybe one that wouldn't upset the tummy as much if any? I love vinegar.

BTW, Shaine your new pic looks awesome! You look sooo happy and healthy...down right radiant : )

How long have you been raw?? If I looked like you my fiance would finally believe in what I've been trying to tell him as far as the benefits of going raw (lol).

Kim

I had the exact opposite thing happen to me when I started using Bragg organic, raw unfiltered apple cider vinegar. My sciatica that I had for years (16 years) disappeared!

The way I came about trying it was I had used a small amount for a baby that had terrible colic and it cured her colic in a day, and as long as she got that little amount in her juice or foods she was not in pain from undigested formula and foods.

This is just my personal experiences with it, and it has to be the kind that says it has "The Mother" in it. For more info. you can visit bragg.com and they also have a booklet which is very interesting.

Love,
Prism

Hi Prism,

It was *The Mother* that I had. I guess mother likes you best?! :-P

Love,

Wendi
XOXO

Prism--I really wanted/expected raw vinegar to be the super energy elixir that it claims to be...but just didn't do it for me. lucky you (I did quite like the taste).

Kim--I shyly thank you for the compliment. Coming up on one year at the end of February! it's not just raw food itself--it's enjoying myself and playing/being active, making time even when there is none for friends, and finding reason to enjoy even my work, tasks, and errands. Eating raw seems to coincide easily with these things.

My dad (who incedently took this photo) told me since I was little, that if you smile you'll trick your brain into being happy and your whole body will feel it.

measure twice, cut once.

"In Watermelon Sugar the deeds were done and done again as my life is done in watermelon sugar." ~r.brautigan

I make paintings

You are so right Shaine and so is your dad! You are such an inspiration!!!!

: )

Thanks!
Kim


P.S. Your inpiration reminds me of a book I am currently reading which is changing my life in every way! If ever there was just ONE book everyone should read I would say this is it. It goes very well with the raw food lifestyle too. Once you read it, you'll wish you knew about this book years and years ago (I thank my friend who told me about it every time I see him!!).



Excuse Me, Your Life Is Waiting:
The Astonishing Power of Feelings by Lynn Grabhorn

Since raw, I've always used lemon juice rather than apple cider vinegar. Just seems more natural to have something off a tree rather than something from a bottle, but if the ACV works well for some people, that's good too.

Maybe there's something in the fermentation that some people need.

The following is a little off the subject, so maybe I should start another thread on it.

But what do people think about fermented vegetables? Like Kim Chee? It seems maybe that kim chee could compare to fresh greens in the same way that ACV could compare to lemon juice?

I had raw kim chee yesterday, and I noticed some very slight heartburn afterward.

Any ideas on that?

Ooh! Maybe start another thread on this, suncloud, so that you can get more responses. I really would love to hear the responses, because to me it just doesn't seem natural to eat fermented foods (not that I don't do it--I use things like nama shoyu). It just doesn't seem natural to me.

Love,

Wendi
XOXO

When eating cooked foods, the consumption of fermented foods can offer a lot of relief from the ills that come from eating those cooked foods. Ills like slow digestion, gaining too much weight or feeling bloated, or relief from the pain of being so acidic from the toxic cooked foods. When acetic acid hits your stomach, your stomach quits digesting the foods, and passes whatever is in your stomach to the intestines for expulsion. What this means for people eating cooked foods is that foods moves along better through the digestive system, though what is sacrificed is absorption of the foods and the using of the nutrients for building the body. But in the case of most westerners, this is a benefit rather than a cost, as people have too much food and if their bodies digested and absorbed all of it, they would bloat to oblivion.

But if one is eating a healthy raw vegan diet, and there is acetic acid in that food, again, the food is not fully absorbed. And this is typically not a problem, as even raw foodists eat more than they need. Except for times where people are having digestion problems and absorption problems and they are not thriving on the raw diet. In these dire times, the cost of using acetic acid becomes apparent, and it prevents one from healing their digestive issues.

Now to me that seems to be very true with what Bryan states..I think it does have a lot to do with where one is with their health, what they eat, how much raw foods they eat, how old one is when you started, so many variables. That's why I think those people that are young and find raw foods and actually stick with high or 100% raw are the very lucky ones.

I do feel lucky to have found raw foods even at the age of 50 and these past 5 years of trying to implement the raw food diet on a consistent basis that I've regained much of my good health. Now if I could get to where people like Bryan, and Nora are that would be fantastic!

Love,
Prism

Bryan,

Thanks for your explanation. That makes so much sense. When I read suncouds post it started me wondering why I used to feel so much better eating kim chee and using vinegar when I had an otherwise unhealthy diet. I noticed a few months ago that I had totally lost my taste for fermented stuff. Now that all makes sense.

Although I still like an occasional kombucha. Does that have the same effect as kim chee and vinegar?

Thanks and Aloha, Greg

Just as an academic "fact", Paul Bragg, in his earliest books, "Cure Yourself", 1929 & "Four Generation Health Food Cookbook & Menus", 1941, says to avoid vinegar, as "it is very rich in acetic acid and it is difficult to digest." (from 1941 book).

I guess later on, he changed his mind??

Bryan, your explanation makes a lot of sense to me, thank you for sharing it. I have always thought it seemed like somewhat of an unnatural food, but have enjoyed it without problems. But I also overeat often. As I get healthier, I expect to gradually stop enjoying it, and then I will stop using it completely. It's nice to know what to look for!

Let me tell you a little story.

Accidentally, when I was but a wee pup, my Mom was cleaning the bathroom with a heavy plastic cup.

Because it was so heavy, she couldn't tell what was in the bottom half.

I asked for water.

She ran the water and put a little in.

The bottom half had Clorox Bleach in it.

I like to chug. And I did.

And yet I write this email, no?!

Fear not the unknown or vinegar.

You are SoooooOOOOO much more robust than you know.

Love,
Paul

[www.oneillpaul.com-a.googlepages.com]

I have some problems with my joints and have never given consideration to the possibility that it may be linked to ACV or any other vinegar for that matter. I think I shall be more attentive. I don't use vinegars that often but it would be interesting to see i there is a correlation for me.

EnlightenmentNow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let me tell you a little story.
>
> Accidentally, when I was but a wee pup, my Mom was
> cleaning the bathroom with a heavy plastic cup.
>
> Because it was so heavy, she couldn't tell what
> was in the bottom half.
>
> I asked for water.
>
> She ran the water and put a little in.
>
> The bottom half had Clorox Bleach in it.
>
> I like to chug. And I did.
>
> And yet I write this email, no?!
>
> Fear not the unknown or vinegar.
>
> You are SoooooOOOOO much more robust than you
> know.
>
> Love,
> Paul
Are you kidding me?!

Don't think I would ever give my, or anyone else's child, something to drink from a cup that I did not know was clean. Kind of neglectful.

How many days ago was it that I ate that salad with the vinegar? My joints are still hurting, particularly in my one wrist. Is it possible for it to last that long??

Bryan, does what you wrote mean that if I experienced a problem after consuming the vinegar that I'm deficient in something?

Love,

Wendi
XOXO

Wendi,

Joint pain is typically inflammation of the joints. What reduces inflammation is to provide the conditions for heath so that your body can heal that inflammation while at the same time removing the cause(s) of inflammation.

So it could be that something else is contributing also, say like another condiment (like miso or nama shoyu), or it could just mean that you need more rest and sleep.

Thanks, Bryan.

I'm trying to think about what else it could be. After eating the salad with the vinegar, it was triggered. I haven't had any nama shoyu for over a week, since we are out of the nuts I usually blend with it (cashew and macadamia). I don't buy miso. I'm trying to think about what I've been eating lately. Honestly, I've been eating so much less of the "junk" raw foods the past two weeks, or so.

I normally don't eat a lot of citrus, but a bought a case of it and have been eating a lot of oranges every day. I've been having my usual large amount of romaine, some celery, cucumber, bananas, sweet red/yellow peppers, lemons, and a few Brazil nuts here and there. My consumption of olive oil has gone down a lot, but my salt intake hasn't changed, yet.

Does anything pop out at you, now that you see what I've been eating? The only difference, other than consuming the ACV for the first time in many years, is the significant increase in oranges and decrease in nuts and shoyu. My menstrual period started, though, so maybe that is part of the cause of the joint pain? I'm confused.

Thanks, again, Bryan.

Lots of love to you,

Wendi
XOXOXO

p.s. I only consume organics, so pesticides are ruled out unless something labeled organic was fraudulently labeled that way.

GorillaWar...---->>>Peace

I kid you not, my friend. Remember, as Thich Nhat Hahn says,.....

"Don't just do something....sit there."

Love,
Paul

[www.oneillpaul.com-a.googlepages.com]