Dr. Graham claimed that statements made by Hyprocrates Instutes have no scientific validity but has he done any studies himself to validate his own findings?
It is more like the last person who has spoken is right, just like in astrology. Where is the truth?
I will stand by what works for me, greens.

madinah,

No one is asking you to change what you eat. Is this what you heard in this thread?

Dr Graham never claimed to have done his own studies. However, Paul Nison and activeinternet claimed that HHI has done scientific studies. Is the data HHI took consistent with modern research techniques like blind or double blind studies? Has their research ever been published or peer reviewed?

So where is the truth? The bottom line, there is no truth, except for the truth you find for yourself. There is no external authority when it comes to what is best for you. You need to find this out for yourself.

Brian Clement and other raw proponents are claiming that fruit is unhealthful for people, causes illness and keeps people ill. There are many on this forum, myself included, that have experience that goes counter to this claim.

For yourself, you need to find out what works best for you. It may very well be that the HHI diet will work wonders for you, and you don't need fruit. If this is the case, your search for health will be very easy, because you've already found the answer.

an expert does not need to conduct his/her own studies to be scientifically accurate in what they report.

no one is questioning that greens work for you! if you say they are, i believe you. but don't say high fruit doesn't work for others when there are lots of examples of people that it works quite well for.

Hi All,
The results speak for themself. If anyone is really interested in this topic, Please tell me why all the authors and teachers in the past to supported a high fruit diet have not lived in good health and have not lasted any longer then the avarage person eating the SAD diet.

HHI has 50 years of experience to back up their info. And where did I get most of my info? from Dr. Fred Bisci, who is PHD and has helped more people with Cancer and diet than anyone on this board. He has worked with thousands of people over his 50 years of eating raw and seen the harmful result of overeating and also consuming too much fruit. There is no need for me to defend what is already proven. The issue is Overeating and I wouldn't suggest anyone follow diet guidelines that say it is okay to consume 20 bananas a day and not call that over eating.

My suggestion is for everyone to stop listening to myself or anyone else and take action, try a diet of 80/10/10 for a while, than try the HHI diet, see for yourself what get's better results and enjoy your life.

Doug is a great teacher, I never met two people who agree 100% on everything and you will never find that. I do not agree with doug about what over eating is but we do agree on many other issue like how toxic raw cocao is and how important exercise is. My advice to everyone, enjoy your life and in time you will fine what works best for you. I am only telling you what I have found with the many people and reports I have seen.

May God bless you all with great health.
paul Nison

Some of the claims made by Dr. Graham, regarding the Hippocrates program are inaccurate at best. I have an appointment with Brian on Tuesday and will get a response on these points.

WHile I'm fully aware that no simgle plan will work for everyone, here are a few horror stories I found on Google from people following this plan.

[www.rawfoodinfo.com]
[www.rawfoodinfo.com]

The above links are two separate articles. The message board cuts the display of the URL at the same point, so I thought I clarify that these are 2 separate items

[www.rawfoodinfo.com] Article 1
[www.rawfoodinfo.com] Article 2

HI, Thanks for showing up here guys.
All very educating info..

Although I have always desired more precision from people from people speaking out publicly, and and writing any claims. Especially when it is so easy to mistake cause for effect..

I still find your answers unsatisfying, and unprecise. I'd love for Your answers to be more specific and not use vague terms like "Some claims ARE Inaccurate at best.." and still when arguing about overeating, yet never defined What "over eating" IS To You, as asked by dr. D.G.

By repeating opinions of others, that they may have voiced in a different discussion is a risky thing, it's best to cite source for others to learn what they meant and what have they said, since no one is perfect, and makes mistakes.

I'm sure everyone here would greatly appreciate Your answer Paul, in a threaded style, like Dr.G did, being as precise as possible so we could see for ourselves who has analysed subject and who is talking around subject, applying/repeating opinions/experiences of others, which they themselves would never do in that subject/matter.

I'd love to also hear what is Dr F. Bisci's opinion on that subject that You are using his authority in.

And as to My OPINION On "large numbers" in diet..
i found myself enjoying, as many other folks here, large numbers od.. apples, bananas, and some of wheatgrass, green smoothies..
at transition i eat sometimes 5 apples at a time, sometimes 4.. 5 times a day.
That would add up to 25 large apples.
i've seen some other SAD people eating.. 5 hamburgers at a TIME!..
I've estimates, that roughly 10 bananas, 5 large apples, and 5 hamburgers make same amount of "matter" for our stomach to deal with..
and i find very happy right now with 2 apples at a time..
Some people drink wheatgrass juice containing 1000's of little wheatgrass leafs..

really numbers have nothing to do with fact that overeating varies, and depends on your past habits.. 2 large pizzas at once.. I've seen dozens of people doing so.. that would roughly be equal to 20 bananas at a time.

WITH A SMALL DIFFERENCE to our bodies and health. :-) I'm sure We agree on that 100% :-)

Free, Open source.Healthy
F.E.A.R. is
an acronym that stands for, False Evidence Appearing Real
F.A.I.T.H. - the First Attribute IN Thoughtful
Health

I am interested in what the precise definition of "overeating" is in this case. I would think it would be eating beyond satiation, to the point of mild or severe discomfort. And this would differ on the person--their metabolism, size, and activity level. And why couldn't a large, very active person eat 20 bananas? I am open to different ideas here, but I feel this isn't being explained well.

The second part of the "fruit guy challange" is Brian Clement wants to debate any top fruit guy live and put that on one of his teleconference calls.

elnatural

The article from Rhio's link is from a well known person repeatedly banned on forums in the past. Surprised she was taken in by him and his usual tactics. He would cause so much trouble by simply lying and blame his failures on everything but his mistakes.

I also wonder why PN is discussing "overeating" as opposed to the "too much fruit" he stated earlier. Does he say this is one in the same now and accepting more fruit in the diet or is he just avoiding answering any better??

Witarianin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>>
> I still find your answers unsatisfying, and
> unprecise. I'd love for Your answers to be more
> specific and not use vague terms like "Some claims
> ARE Inaccurate at best.."

Hi Witarianin,

I left the comments vague since I'm going to get a response tomorrow from Brian Clement. Here is one of the claims that is not accurate from Dr Graham.

"In fact the director of HHI has publicly declared that their raw food diet is "nutritionally inadequate," and that "supplementation is necessary." "

Brians position is that the Hippocrates Diet has delivers more nutrients than any other diet he has seen. Having said that, he says that all diets result in vitamin and mineral deficiencies at some point it time.

When Hippocrates recommends supplements, they base it on a review of blood tests. The person can supplement these vitamin and mineral deficiencies with food or supplements. They also monitor the blood test free for life as long as the person submits the test results to them. They like the spectracell test. [www.spectracell.com]

Here is an excerpt regarding the test from the Spectracell website...

"SpectraCell’s FIA™ tests are more clinically useful than standard serum tests. Standard tests only measure static quantities of vitamins and minerals present in serum, primarily reflecting dietary intake. But, with our patented technology, we assess long-term intracellular requirements using each patient’s lymphocytes. Under a variety of nutrient depletion conditions, we measure the growth response of these cells to mitogenic stimulation. This determines functional intracellular deficiencies, which might not be detected by standard serum tests, and provides a powerful clinical assessment tool."

I had one of these tests done and they are very interesting.


THe other comments that are inaccurate are regarding the percentage of fat, calories etc in the Hippocrates program. However, I'm not knowledgable enough to make those comments and I will get a response from Brian directly.

Also, Brian has been following his diet for over 35 years and looks better than anyone his age that I have seen.

i couldn't believe how young Brian looked when i met him a few years ago. he appears to be nearly 20 years younger than he really is, it's Astounding!

Thank you Guys for some clarification :-)

Yes, Elnatural,..
Brian had already debated Dr.Doug Graham on open panel of raw gurus (there also was Mr.Wolfe..), and i see why Dr.Graham might not want to do another one on "exclusive" teleconference for/with Brian...

Now it seems that since at debate Brian's opinions stand in clear view, and contrast to his all "scientifically" sounding terms, views and to someone more precise and down to earth, presenting scientific precision and no contradiction in diet/health approach, without all the "magic potions, supplements to purchase or else...."
..Seems that catching someone at his own grounds and doing analysis with HHI's weapon of choice will ensure chance to proof that diet based in high % on fruit are "bad" for people.

I believe more effort should be put by Him in finding a way/proofing/doing research to set up his program/recommendations in a such way, that less Supplementation will be needed by people choosing that route to health/diet


It seems that I Wouldn't want to do another interview/ debating again with someone unscientific and through out years contradicting/ changing mind on most important matters, staples of healthy living program that HHI promotes
Also since these are available only for a limited audience/not everyone to listen to. Complication, supplementation is not how nature is built, and more complex one's recommendations are the more mistakes are to be made.



I've checked on that website you've gave and those teleconferences are not available for free to listen to.

Also Activeinternet/You were to find and post here a direct link to teleconference where Brian "Gives Out" "The challenge" to tell what is wrong with fruit eating based on blood test(...) for us to listen to.

It's quite obvious, that if someone pays to be able to listen to those teleconferences, must be either avid fan or opposer of Brian's High fat, low fruit, supplementation approach that is basing on exactly same scheme, that conventional (SAD and) medical approach / HHI does. We know what that kind of approach leads to, and most here have chosen to go toward diet, approach that does not produce deficit and is more hygienic, simple, than Eating overt fats, and then having to supplement, and sleep longer(since body must spend more time, resources, minerals, water and energy to digest fat, vs. simple carbs : Fruit.

Next.
I believe seeing IS believing, and each person standarts ARE different, as everyone is free to do so. I've seen Brian, seemed to be overweight, by my standards.D.Wolfe for example, To ME seems to be to skinny.,

Hey, no one is perfect, I believe I am to skinny also, and since I've tried high fat approach, and understand why D.Wolfe had chosen to do that high Fat approach to diet.. With vata constitution one can get away without being sick ONLY When supplementing A LOT.. I've done that and found it isn't healthy, Certainly for me, but than found out evidence that it shouldn't be used by sick people, since it will backfire. High fat had been utilized by Dr Atkins Already, as well as host of other "Doctors", every time allowing them to sell more drugs, supplements, or curations.. ending often in hospital. proven by the "founder"..(Atkins had multiple sclerosis if I remember right
Here the sad News: [www.medicalnewstoday.com]
16 Year old girl Died after following Atkins High fat approach [www.drfuhrman.com]

How many of such examples of overt fat being deranging to human(and animal) Health does need to happen to see the flaw and change recommendations, that time for good ones..?

Without all the green juices, and supplements HHI's fat% recommendations would render man quite quickly tired, dehydrated, mineral deficit, depressed, overweight, unable to perform well, and with a heart stroke at the end of that list.

That had been already found since Old Greek times(which also advised high fat approach diet), that the higher temperature, the longer it takes to develop high fat related problems, since overt fat's, clogging artery/ coating abilities are diminished by some degree in high temperature. It makes it easier for body to break it down/takes less time, and is less clogging to/in a lymphatic system.

High fat percentage in diet invariably leads to body's depletion of minerals thus making it necessary for supplementation, Either vegetable, or animal above 10% in diet does not do ANYTHING GOOD for Human health as Dr.G wrote. World Health organizations agree.
yet Mr. Brian/HHI, David Wolfe and many other Raw leaders lead us to believe, it is good for us, if not necessary.

Lastly, Activeinternet, When You write "Some of the claims made by Dr. Graham, regarding the Hippocrates program are inaccurate at best, You Imply that They ARE In Fact inaccurate, Yet, You are yet to talk to Brian to SEE IF They are..
I'd never say that "YOU ARE Wrong" if i would not be sure, to follow such claim: and I'll talk to some people to see if You are, and how much...

Either YOU KNOW For sure, or You'll ask to SEE IF What you Think/Feel is actually true/ if someone claims are in fact wrong.

Your quote regarding what Dr.G. wrote the "nutritionally inadequate," statement.. I Believe I've read/ heard that statement from HHI some time ago.. So You Citing it is contradicting your feelings of Doug being wrong..

I Think Brian has a lot of great knowledge, and informations.. as do D.Wolfe.. only it's the usage of knowledge, that states its' meaning, usefulness, and either leading someone toward truth or supplementation Or Teaching people to analyze,think and compare for themselves.

I believe HHI is a great place to start learning some basics, and clearing up after years of junk food, yet i would recommend to go SLOW in your cleansing desires. What took 20, 30 Years to build up, trying to cleans yourself in 3 weeks is absolutely unnatural, and in some cases very dangerous. Also analyze yourself sources of the sources of the sources used by HHI's.

Free, Open source.Healthy
F.E.A.R. is
an acronym that stands for, False Evidence Appearing Real
F.A.I.T.H. - the First Attribute IN Thoughtful
Health

Witarianin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>I believe more effort should be put by Him in finding a way/proofing/doing >research to set up his program/recommendations in a such way, that less >Supplementation will be needed by people choosing that route to health/diet

As for the supplements, everyone reading this thread can get their own independent blood test and make thier own determination. HHI recommends the spectracell test, which they say is the most advanced test available. Check out www.spectracell.com and draw your own conclusion. They will mail the results to you with explainations that non-medical people can easily understand. [www.spectracell.com] (this link shows what is tested). Anyone on a high fruit diet (or any diet) that wants to know if they have any deficiencies should get a test. The individualized answers are available for everyone. I'd had been doing the green drinks for about 3 months when I got mine.


>It seems that I Wouldn't want to do another interview/ debating again with >someone unscientific and through out years contradicting/ changing mind on most >important matters,

THe body of knowledge is constantly changing. I'm more inclined to believe someone that grows and changes as new info becomes avilable. We're just scratching the surface on much of this knowledge. I'm more skeptical of someone who does not ever admit mistakes and does not change based on new evidence.

> It's quite obvious, that if someone pays to be
> able to listen to those teleconferences,

There have been three calls to date, and all have been free.
THe contents of the first two of them are conained in the Q & A Section.
Call three which was last week, will be there as well later in the week.
I will post when available. THe entire unedited calls will be available for purchase at some point. However all info from all the calls will be available for free under the Q & A Section. You will get to hear all of the content.




> High fat percentage in diet invariably leads to
> body's depletion of minerals thus making it
> necessary for supplementation, Either vegetable,
> or animal above 10% in diet does not do ANYTHING
> GOOD for Human health as Dr.G wrote. World Health
> organizations agree.
> yet Mr. Brian/HHI, David Wolfe and many other Raw
> leaders lead us to believe, it is good for us, if
> not necessary.
>
> Your quote regarding what Dr.G. wrote the
> "nutritionally inadequate," statement.. I Believe
> I've read/ heard that statement from HHI some time
> ago.. So You Citing it is contradicting your
> feelings of Doug being wrong..

Brians position is "every" diet will result in some deficiency at some point in time. He has many reasons for this belief. The prood will be evident in a blood test. Dr.G's comment was that their specific diet was inadequate, which is not his position.

Also, the staple of the HHI food plan are sprouts. They include sunflower, peas, adzuki, mung beans, fenugreek, lentils and several others. Additionally, red and yellow peppers, cucumber, red onions, squash supplement the sprouts. Avacadoes and nut dishes are served much more infrequently. The diet may not be as high in fat as everyone is suggesting, but I will get a direct answer from him regarding percentages.

I had more responses, but my screen refreshed, and I wiped them out and had to start again. I'll be back tomorrow with answers from Brian.

Best of health to all.

Hello Everyone,
We finally got the video response edited and placed on youtube. They now have a 10 minute limit, so it is in 2 parts...

[ca.youtube.com] Part 1
[ca.youtube.com] Part 2

The response is mostly to Dr G. eariler in this post.

I will post the entire video in 1 part on the AliveRaw website tomorrow as well.

Have fun with this.... :-)

Best of Health to all.

The silence of the King and Queen fruit guys to this free offer is absolutely deafening!!!!!!!!!!!

elnatural

activeinternet Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hello Everyone,
> We finally got the video response edited and
> placed on youtube. They now have a 10 minute
> limit, so it is in 2 parts...
>
> [ca.youtube.com] Part 1
> [ca.youtube.com] Part 2
>


[ca.youtube.com] Part 1 Updated
[ca.youtube.com] Part 2
>

Cool videos by Brian Clement! Thanks for sharing activeinternet , I love your website! I just watched the lecture with Viktorus Kulvinskas, it is very inspirational. It is nice to see a 70 year old in perfect health, flexible enough to sit in a Full Lotus yoga assana! Keep the videos coming.

it amuses me to see how some many of these guys use the "dr." prefix as a mark of authoratative disctinction which supposidly validates their pretty much subjective opinion on whatever they are choosing to promote to those who are on the receiving end and seeking good advice to help them to lead a more healthy life.

i have seen some of the so-called experts who are mentioned on this thread in person and quite frankly i was not impressed at all by their "celebretic pseudo-charasmatic" presences. some hide their eyes behind sunglasses while sporting a definitely oversized paunch while others hide behind a huge ego while excusing their excessive food consumption as a very healthy way in which we all should hope to eat. 'dont follow leaders or talk to talk to parking meters"..i forget who said that.

as i have always contended ...each individual is unique in what their bodies require for optimum health and the "one size fits all" philosophy is pure bunk.

biological terrain acessment is the "acid test" and is at this time the only real method we have of measuring what may work for an individual. look it up.

its easy enough to start by getting a roll of ph paper for 10 bucks or less and determining where you are at with your diet by taking your ph on a regular basis. also i would like to add at this time that essential fatty acids mustbe considered in all cases.

if too much fruit makes you acid you are missing the target and need to adjust what you are choosing and combining for your food. a neutral ph is our best protection against cancer and infectious disease. "the soil" of your terrain invites either good or evil to thrive within it.

oxygen availability to cell is the key component to the biogenisis of cancer.
cancer cells are renegade, in that they revert to a primitive form of cellular respiration which uses the fermentation of sugars to get oxygen. in technical jargon it is called anerobic glycolysis and such a process produces huge amounts of lactic acid as a byproduct. this acidic state of affairs once again goes big timeagainst the "biological terrain acessment" requirement of a neutral ph for optimal and normal cellular respiration of oxygen (oxy redux potential) btw: they have known about the oxygen deficiency as relates to cancer since dr. otto warburg received a nobel prize for its discovery back in 1927. new information recent brought forth regarding the necessity of certain omega 3-6-9 fatty acids to be also present for this normal oxygenation of our cells to take place presents us with another valuable piece of the cancer puzzle.

[www.encognitive.com]

use biological terrain acessment (ph) and a full awareness of all factors required for good health to determine what you as an individual require.
forget about listening to so-called gurus ...it'll just confuse you. do your own research by possibly using what they say but don't use it as the "be all end all" for what YOU should do.

jj

jj,

You know it's funny, but they stopped teaching about Warburg in clinical oncology classes years ago. Hmmm . . . I wonder why? : )

wow tamukha ......now you got me wonderin too...... maybe the secret magic bullet that blows all the good stuff about oxygen and cellular respiration away and is only a few more years away before they release the ultimate cure?

do you think maybe after all that hard work and money spent that they finally found it?

certainly they will need a little more money to tweek it so that its ready for market.

meanwhile i think i will just keep on testing my ph and eating as best as i can.