The Enemy is not really Fruit, but rather the Stimulation. Most Raw Vegans eat too much Fruit.....and all those Bananas!! Can you believe it? Many use stimulating vegetables....like Garlic and Onion. It's the Stimulation (and Quantity) that ages us. Some even have sleep disorders from too much Stimulation in their Food.
The 'Key' is to Strengthen, not Stimulate. I'm into a good book now called "Quantum Eating" that presents a Theory to reverse the Aging Process. It's quite interesting. It's all in what you eat.
I say "Go Green". If you can't grow Wheatgrass like I do, then go to the Greens Section of your favorite Food Store. The Greens, not Fruit, will give you Strength. Hey, I'm talking to me too........WY
P.S. Don't just drink Green Juice....massage with it too. And don't forget vigorous Exercise. You want a strong Body, too, right?
P.P.S. Has anyone here tried Parsley Juice? It's Strong. I think I read something against it.

Yes for a resilient strong and healthy body, green is the diet. Many on fruit only diet cannot survive under harsh conditions, their body is cleanse but not resilient

vigorous exercise on just greens???? i don't think so.....

it is irresponsible to say fruit is the enemy....

the raw diet essentially is the a HIGH FAT diet if you are not eating tons of fruit...

i wish people would read a little more about doug graham and 801010....
and yes WY...lots and lots and lots of bananas and NO wheatgrass

Opinion:

-I think eating well is a PROCESS. Proportional to how poorly and debris-blocked a person is (emotionally AND physically)...healthier foods and practices are going to start to break those items free. I feel that it is a good idea to eat a wider variety of raw foods...focusing on greens and trying to eat more simply and enjoyably in the beginning. Later....after at least 6-12 months of pursuing YOUR raw food goals.....the food itself (and conventional produce works fine) should cleanse a person enough internally and externally to where fruit can be a wonderful way to continue that cleansing process. It all depends on what a persons over-riding life goals are...and whether a certain level of health is actually NECESSARY to those goals.

-Just a couple of thoughts.

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

meinleben Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> vigorous exercise on just greens???? i don't think
> so.....

I don't think so, either. It would take about 30 heads
of lettuce.

> it is irresponsible to say fruit is the enemy....

I agree.

> the raw diet essentially is the a HIGH FAT diet if
> you are not eating tons of fruit...

I agree with this also, and I fail to see how an excess
of monounsaturated fats (the best possible high fat
option) could possibly compete with a wide variety of
beneficial phytochemicals from fruit.

Sounds like an interesting book - who is the author WY? Who else do you recommend?

Brrr..
Guys, How Can YOU!? :-)

.. I Mean Compare .. A Poison to a CURE/ or i shall say FOOD..

Mmm.. a Tasty one too ;-)

Me LIKES BANANA(in a Homer Simpson voice :-))

Seriously.. a POISON(garlic,Onions) to a FOOD?

Of course I Agree a LOT on the stimulation part..
However stimulation coming from reaction to a poison IS by NO WAY OR MEASURE, Same as one coming from Healthy and tasty food.

Also..
Stimulation is NECESSARY,(after all physical exercise IS a stimulation..) to live and function properly, or at all.., for as long as After stimulation One provides conditions to REGENERATE (!).

I believe(as many), that after strenuous activity wheatgrass is just PLAIN TO COMPLEX To allow for a timely recovery/rapid intake of nutrients..
All athletes i Know of do think so, since i don't see them drinking wheatgrass juice after activity(or ever).

Never seen any football player doing so, yet Drinking banana blended with WATER!..
MMmmmmmm..
I've seen dozens, On TV TOO :-)

And how how would you do if You wouldn't have JUICER to help you with it..?

Your teeth would be all grounded after several years(if not months) of attempted ingestion of goodness of grass in a form of juice.. :-)
Hey, I'm not trying to pick on You guys.. BUT..

DO YOU BELIEVE IN GOD?

:-)))
Just Joking,
Not to offend anyone.

Wheatgrass IS SUCH A STIMULATION AGENT, That most people puke after their first sip of Wheatgrass Juice, And You guys are talking/ or rather We :-) About Stimulation NOT Being good for human..

I Believe i have almost levitated after my first 4 ounces..

No Seriously, i think of it as coffee, ans as of something unnatural, and not healthy longterm, to depend on for source of.. anything.

We all know that sunshine is Good for us(chlorophyll), but taking to long of a sunbath will cause burns and cancer.
Superconcentration of even BEST source/most complete source of minerals... is a dangerous thing, and in history NOBODY Did it..
i see potential for dangerous adaptation of a body/or rather compensation, and shrinking of stomach due to condensed source of nutrition: rendering large, or rather NORMAL stomach unnecessary.
Digestive enzymes begin to change its properties adjusting to wheatgrass: making it harder to digest/live on normal food, Normal concentrations of proteins/ and normal proportions of different minerals to energy needed to convert them for body to use

Well,

Also Strength comes form training Not from Food.. Just wanted to make that Clear.. Wouldn't You Agree? ;-)

..And in order to gain strength You MUST have energy to train..
Energy does NOT com from minerals, but form carbohydrates. Banana is FULL Of that. :-)

Survival under hash conditions.. also is a matter of experience, and availability of fruits/food AT ALL at such places.. making it equally hard to exist WheatgrassJuice 'ers, as Fruit "only" guys as you've put it.


I believe food availability should not limit our choice of place to live, rather we should choose place that allows for us to realize our character, goals, make us happy.. whatever it is..., and appropriately adjust diet to make it: Functional.. may it be more/ less fruit, and or/ more / less green leafy vegetables at normal concentration levels. I Just enjoy too much them to cram all that goodness, and richness of taste into a Glass..(I Love Jim Carey doing impression of The JUICEGUY.. even though i feel a little offended by it :-))
[www.youtube.com]


Wheatgrass/ juicer dependence is not for Me, to time consuming.., and all of the above.

i Wonder what are other Raw People thinking :-)

Free, Open source.Healthy
F.E.A.R. is
an acronym that stands for, False Evidence Appearing Real
F.A.I.T.H. - the First Attribute IN Thoughtful
Health

whee ooh, wheatgrass was the most stimulting thing i ever put into my mouth.

well, almost

I'm going to practice a new Diet for a while consisting of just three juices.....Wheatgrass, Celery, and Carrot. Wheatgrass for Strength and Nutrition, Celery for Cleansing, and Carrot for Energy. Sorry Folks, that's the way He told me to do it.
I've enjoyed your responses. May we all live in Peace and Harmony......WY

Mr Yogi

Thanks for the raw courage to be out of the box and pushing to the highest levels possible. You are right that fruit is an enemy and greens and sprouts are supreeme. I know a person who does'nt own a car, does'nt eat fruit and rides a bike around all day long. And she swims for several hours and day in the ocean on top of that. She told me the other day her quick energy is a green drink.

I am going to do as Hippocrates says and even stop carrots due to their sugar content for a while.

To call a small piece of garlic, or pinch of herbs and spices deadly stimulators and then to say 50 bannanas at time is not is very very stupid and mixed up indeed.

elnatural

When I ate to much fruit I started becomming irritable and felt way to much energy with no place to let it out. I found fruit to be an easy thing to eat though. All I had to do is eat it. No blenders to clean. I am finding the green smoothies very satisfieing, however I don't like them unless I have some fruit blended with it.
Wheat grass has a lot of sugars in it I find it to be a supurb drink. I think wheat grass helped me become raw and also helped me quit smoking. Even though some may not tolerate the taste of grass juice I feel it is an aquired thing. The benifitts out weigh the flavor.

If anyone is consuming 50 bananas at a time, please post your photo! I would love to see it, please bare your stomach or show your side profile if possible :p

Quick question for the greens promoters.

Where are you going to get the glucose (i.e. sugar) that your brain runs on?

I've never really studied a high greens diet, and I have no interest to do a search on it, so let me know please. Do you get it from things you eat that are not greens like root vegetables. Thanks.

It's interesting that the low fruit eaters are the ones attacking the fruit eaters ("Fruit is the Enemy" and not the other way round. The fruit eaters seem a lot more balanced, eg David Z Mason, etc, suggesting people eat what their body needs and not trying to force any dogma on anyone.

Rob

--
Rob Hull - Funky Raw
My blog: [www.rawrob.com]

If I want greens I eat cucumbers and bell peppers,yellow,green,red,orange peppers, and zuchinni,avocados. I just read the book"Fruit:The Ultimate Diet" and fruit has everything we need,nutrients,minerals, etc and we do not need to count calories and fats etc, just simply eat when hungry, till full and till full not BLOATED or STUFFED! And live life. Im getting away from food being a MAJOR part of my life. Were supposed to eat to live not live to eat.Variety is key with fruit. After reading the book I realized that I was overdoing the bananas and needed to incoorporate other fruits and to eat whats in season. So now I eat bananas,apples,oranges,cucumbers,avocados,peppers,and zuchinni. And no theres nothing wrong with avocado as far as too much fat, its good fat. just need not eat too many. 2 to 4 a day is good. Oranges have so m uch more in them than vitamin c. they have calcium, and protein! and this is JUST an orange.I began this fruitarian lifestyle eating 30 to 40 bananas a day but now down to about 15 to 20 and more other fruits. it all balances out and for me I feel great and my skin is looking better and better. There will always be criticism for everything but thats ok. Before when I was on SAD all I thought about was what I was gonna eat next rather than doing productive things. Now I flipped those thoughts into more productive things and I eat when I need to and it is only FRUIT.I now eat 2 to 4 avocados a day, large ones and i maintain 160 lbs. I eat them with cucumbers and peppers and tomato, oh yea, tomato,also a fruit.And 20 plus bananas over the course of a 12 hour working day isnt much, 20 bananas in one sitting well yes, thats alot.1 bundle of bananas is usually 7 so a couple bundles a day for me along with a variety of other fruits and I feel great.
Roadrunner

It's all a process and our bodies are on their own timetable. What I mean is, if too much fruit stimlulates you, you are not ready for that change. If greens give you more energy or other advantage, that is where you are at with your body. There is no one size for everyone with "greens", "too much fruit", etc, blah, blah, blah. Trying something for a week or month or two doesn't show anything either. Most serious changes take years at times and unfortunately these things haven't been really looked at in this respect yet. Raw foodists or fruitarians of the past didn't have our knowledge of today and the future hasn't arrived yet to see the results of what we now know today either.

I don't understand the purpose of this thread, and the conversation in it at all. If you don't want to eat an all fruit diet, then don't. Nobody is making you. But why do you have to start a thread that isn't productive at all? One that only causes arguments? Do you think you're going to convince a fruitarian to change their ways because you come here with an attitude? Get over yourself. Fine, you don't believe eating an all fruit diet is healthy. CONGRATULATIONS! YOU DON'T HAVE TO EAT THAT WAY! Why interfere with someone else's choice to do so?

No one person on this forum is eating the "perfect diet." Our diets are just one part of our lives. Balance is needed everywhere. Sleep, work, recreation, etc., Each person here is doing what they feel is best for them. No one diet is right for everyone.

My personal opinion is this: Eat more God-made food than man-made food. By choosing to go raw, I've chosen to eat 100% God-made food. That's it. It's a choice.

There are people who eat cooked and fried foods as well as smoke and drink and live to be well into old age. Eating raw is just a choice. Granted, it's generally a healthier choice for people, but it's still just that. A choice. It's not a miracle and it's not guarantee of long life.

So, eat your fruit, drink your wheatgrass, eat greens or don't, adopt a diet of only red M&Ms if you want... But what does anyone get by attacking someone else's choice on this subject?

I think any sort of dogma is ridiculous to adhere to, and more so, to push on anyone else... whether it's no fruit, high fruit, high greens, 80/10/10, religion, politics... even my "anti-dogma" dogma is better kept to myself. Everyone is different, which is wonderful. Everyone is just striving to find what will help them thrive at this stage of their journey, but the minute their approach becomes dogmatic it only alienates others. Hidden within dogma is an inherent judgmental attitude and feeling of superiority to others. In a twist on an old saying... People should muzzle their dogmas, so they'll stop barking at my karma. ...or something like that.

For the last month I reduced my sweet fruit intake to include only limes and green papaya. It helped me realize that I personally was gorging on too much fruit... it was my new way of emotionally eating (instead of SAD comfort food), but this isn't to say that someone couldn't have the same relationship with wheatgrass juice or other greens. I am starting to reintroduce fruits into my diet, but in a much more mindful way. I'm no longer going to see how much fruit I can cram into my vitamix, but I am very excited to enjoy their flavors again! I do really love fruit, they are my good friend and so are greens...and sprouts ...and nuts/seeds ...and wheatgrass juice.

Aloha Nui Loa,

Greg

A great many people think they are thinking when they are really rearranging their prejudices. - William James

There is no pill that can be swallowed,
There is no guru, that can be followed, - Michael Franti (Pray For Grace)

The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion. - Albert Camus



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2008 07:02PM by MauiGreg.

Well said, Tanawana and Simple Living, and bravo! I couldn't have said it better myself!

We have enough people bashing us and our diet as it is, and then to have people WITHIN the raw movement trying to strongarm and put some of us down as well...enough, already!

The book Quantum Eating by Tonya Zavasta. www.beautifulonraw.com

She talks about having green juices in the morning,salads,sprouts,seaweeds and stop eating at 2 pm.VERY interesting !!!CR diet (caloric restriction)

Some opinions/thoughts:

You certainly have a point Simple Living. A person (in my opinion) should not pre-suppose (as very enlightened people sometimes do) that OTHERS are acting from positions of great CONSCIOUSNESS.....and FREEDOM and thus CHOOSING what they are saying and what they are doing....on a very free and voluntary basis (and thus are just being mean and spiteful). Those that have a philosophy / practice / dialog that is comprised in part (or in whole) of telling others what they SHOULD be doing.....or that what other people are doing is wrong, have not yet developed the level of consciousness that allows them to GIVE. Instead, they draw energy from elsewhere. They would do well to examine their own control issues....and their compulsive need to draw energy from others. But I certainly forgive these folks...because the NEED energy...but have not yet learned how to generate it or give it themselves yet. Thus, they are not in full control of their actions...if you follow my thinking.

There is a story (perhaps it is relevant):

-A Karate master has a young, talented student that wins 100% of his matches....but his strategy is always to trick the opponent into making a mistake - and berating his opponents. So one day the master arranges to have a young man that he knew......that had trained since birth and been in many 100's of matches to come to the dojo for an exhibition match against his student. At first the master's student tried to bluff the new opponent with loud and aggressive moves - and he was roundly thrown to the floor. Then, he tried to trick the the young man with feints and false moves....to try to get him to make a mistake and go off-balance. But the opponent was very experienced...and waited for an opening....and then stuck him hard in the mid-section. Now frustrated and out of breath, then master's student rushed at the young man...who easily side-stepped and chopped him from behind. The master's student went down hard and rose up gasping...with a little blood on his nose. "STOP!" the karate master called. The two opponents bowed....and the master thanked and then dismissed the the young guest fighter. The master's student was still out of breath but said, "Master, I don't understand! I tried every trick I knew...to defeat that guy...but he just wouldn't make a mistake!" So the master called him over to the corner and pulled up one of the training ropes - laying out it's length on the floor. The master asked, "What is the quickest way to make this rope shorter?" The young student thought about it and said, "I'd take a knife and cut it!". The master said to wait a moment. He got up, walked to the corner, and pulled up another much longer rope. He laid it next to and along the side the first one and said, "The quickest way to make some one else's rope shorter, is to make your own longer."

-I like that story.

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2008 07:19PM by davidzanemason.

Beautiful story.Let see if I understood:the quickest way to make your "rope longer"is to improve yourself,make yourself bigger.

Sure! And to recognize if we are attempting to make ourselves feel better about our lifestyle at the expense of others. Question: would a person rather be right or kind? (Wayne Dyer).

-David Z. Mason

WWW.RawFoodFarm.com

From what I understand, Wheatgrass Yogi is stoned or thinks he/she is "talking" to someone, some type of delusion. Fine. It's actually quite comical if you ask me.

HOWEVER, I don't think Wheatgrass personally attacked anyone. I could see how some fruitarians might be offended, and hell, even I eat a huge amount of fruit now that I'm focusing on 20% or less calories from fat, but as long as you are doing what you feel is right and are eating balanced and enough calories to sustain you (well, there ARE eating disorders in all groups and types of diets), then who cares what Wheatgrass said? I don't think they meant to offend, really.

eat what ya like

like what ya eat

Utopian says

I don't think Wheatgrass personally attacked anyone. I could see how some fruitarians might be offended, and hell, even I eat a huge amount of fruit now that I'm focusing on 20% or less calories from fat, but as long as you are doing what you feel is right and are eating balanced and enough calories to sustain you (well, there ARE eating disorders in all groups and types of diets), then who cares what Wheatgrass said? I don't think they meant to offend, really.

Exactly Utopian. I know for myself all I did was post what I do and why. I know it's true when both Gabrieal Cousins and Brian Clement by way of scientific research show the harmfull affects of sugar in our deit no matter from what scource including fruit. It promotes and enhances all disease making it a true enemy of health and thus mine also. I may or may not change some one on high fruit who knows. Some one just asked in another post what would you like to say to the new ones. This is part of that. For a high fruit or all fruit guy to feel this as an attack they are probably insecure in themselves and what they are doing. To see what the Yogi and a I posted as an attack then every single post on this board that condradicts another post has to be seen as an attack also meaning no one should post anything anymore!

Elnatural

I like to eat a balanced diet consisting of fruits, vegetables, and seeds eaten in response to the signals my body provides to me.

I have a good friend who follows Doug Graham's 80/10/10 Diet. I always eat her diet when I visit her and feel 'Great'. We always have lots of Fruit in the morning, with a Blended Salad to finish each day (with lots of Lettuce in between). Fruit Diet with a little Fat and Greens is a good diet to follow. I'm not Preaching. I'm just asking "Can we improve on what we're doing?"
Turn within and examine Yourself. I'll do the same.......WY

I try to eat a raw diet that I feel can sustain me day in and day out for a long, long time. I try to make sure thats its balanced, fresh, interesting, and has enough fiber and water in it to keep me detoxed and hydrated. And thats about it. Oh, and did I mention I like to keep it simple ?

Fruit isn't the enemy. Stimulation isn't the enemy. Fruit and stimulation are doing exactly what they are supposed to do. We're the enemy. We're the ones who misuse things that do exactly what they are supposed to do.