Hi Folks,
I was seeking info today about how the raw lifestyle and prescription drugs mix.
Has anyone had good or bad experiences with them mixing.?
I am afraid if I really go raw,my body will revolt in some bad way.
My doctor is urging me to go on zoloft and lithium..two antidepressants.
The lithium might be for life.
Thanks.
Brian

lithium + raw is googleplexes better than lithium + sad

I totally agree.
I was just wondering if your body gets very clean and pure that mainstream medicine would be like a foreign substance in the body.
Oh,maybe my question is redundant.
Alcohol is certainly a foriegn substance.
Funny how we can say "duh" after asking a question.
Brian

if your liver/other bodily organs JUST have to contend with lithium and not lithium + alcohol + high fructose corn syrup + dairy products + meat + yellow #5 + monosodium glutamate + tums + caffeine + + + +

yes lithium is a foreign substance in the body. it would be a foreign substance in the body regardless of your diet. you might just not be able to hear it through the cacophany.

i am not advising you one way or the other on taking lithium (or anything else).

I would go ahead and take the medication for now. Let it do its 'job' so you can get to a place where you are steadier. Your body will sort it all out soon enough and then you can make the decision to stay on it or not. Just don't go on them and then 'suddenly' go off of them. You can make yourself very ill if you do. Yes, I've made that mistake while taking anti-depressants a few years back.

I used to take Straterra (for ADD) while raw and couldn't get it out of my head that it was defeating the purpose of raw...as if my body would stay in this vicious cycle of detox due to the meds. Well, that wasn't the case. I went raw anyway, kept taking the straterra until I felt I was ready to let it go. I didn't feel anything all that uncomfortable.

I'm also still taking thyroid medication (Armour) and I'm not dealing with constant detox or discomfort. I'm toying with the idea of going off of it, once I finally take the 100% plunge. I'm about 85%-90% now.

Anyway...just my experience and opinion.

hmmm.... well, i guess the obvious shouldn't be stated
because you probably already know of the side effects of your medications (especially zoloft... there is a book written on it that u may wish to read)

all i can say is i'm wishing u the best of luck on whatever course you choose to take

I'm raw and I take Wellbutrin SR. I started the meds at the same time I became a raw foodist. I took my time transitioning away from cooked food. The only thing I've found is the raw diet seems to make the medicine feel a bit stronger. BUT, keep in mind, I started both at the same time.

Raw1228,

BTW, I started the raw lifestyle/Wellbutrin to assist in overcoming my alcoholism and to start "fixing" the underlying causes that drove me to that in the first place.

I'm not sure what your situation is (haven't been following the posts; just the last few from today) but if you need a friend to talk to you can always email me.

Thanks everyone!
I am going with the meds.
I have never given any of them a fair long term trial.
Maybe they will really help me to get active in my hobbies,sober,working again,and to a better place with everyone in my life.
Lofty goals,but I have to start somewhere.
Brian

Always go on/off medication with a doctor's oversight--but if the doctor is antagonistic to your personal goals, get a new one. =) /end disclaimer

Raw can be an AMAZING tool to use in overcoming depression. But it also brings to surface old wounds to start true healing--and if you do need to have some kind of mood stabilizer until you're a little more transitioned to eating raw, that may be easier for you.

I personally am a huge advocate of personal willpower, never went to a doctor for my emotional problems (I had everything from bouts of mania to planning my own suicide), and I trucked through it all, now never having been happier in my life. Raw gave me the energy to do it all, and is helping me to remove all the unnecessary emotional/lifestyle blocks that kept me in such a passive state.

But as someone mentioned on another thread before, this isn't always viable depending on your responsibilities and living situation--I live alone, left the country to find myself, have a flexible work schedule. I don't have a commitment to children that would need to come first.

So, I would say, consider your goals, first and foremost. If living on a prescription is not part of your goals, address that. NEVER shortchange yourself (I'm finding that a big lesson with raw). Next, address responsibilities and living situation--if *temporarily* getting on a prescription helps you find the power to remove BIGGER obstacles to your goals, and that is what you want to do, then find a doctor who is willing to work with you on those terms--your terms.

Best of luck!! You can do anything you set your heart to doing, and even if you stumble from time to time, just get up and keep walking!

Lots of love!

wow, that's interesting, wht a prognosis, that you "need" this medication that prescription companies and the doctor will make money off of FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE! funny how that happens.

think about it.

[utopiankitchen.wordpress.com]

Yes I have battled with whether to take meds or not.Just do everything naturally,or take their pills.
Brian

Fasting and 100% raw diet, as well as getting away from ALL stress if possible, can heal the nervous system without medications.

Whatever symptoms you are experiencing are not due to a deficiency of lithium, but to a challenged nervous system.

I strongly recommend healing the nervous system using natural methods. It is the only way to true, permanent healing.

Best of luck.

Most doctors like to see people get healthier. I found mine willing to cooperate with me in my desire to lessen my dependence on prescription medicine.

I would consider your doctor's advice.

Over time, as you feel yourself stabilize, you may think you need less. (Maybe not.) But maybe you will be able to taper off your medications if you assiduously deal with the underlying issues at your core. Or maybe you will need those medications for life.

If that was the case for me, I would be grateful to take something that helps.

I have a friend with MS who is raw/vegan. She doesn't view her doctor's advice as intrusive or manipulative or coercive. My friend has been able to eliminate some of her need for prescriptions but there are a couple of things she may need to take for the rest of her life. She is grateful that they help her.

If you don't like the side effects, use that as a motivator to do what you think you need to do to be healthier and stronger. What that is for you may be different than what that is for me. Yoga? Psychotherapy? Meditation? Running? Biking? Hiking? Dance? Journaling?

I hope this helps.

Lee

[www.dhamma.org]

I am actually thinking about trying lithium. None of the SSRIs or SNRIs work for me, neither do the older tricyclics.

I am on very low doses of lorazepam and buspirone (same effect, different pharmacokinetics) right now M-F. On weekends I take nothing.

I hate meds. But they make me less tense and easygoing. Does anyone remember how I used to post? (heh)

I haven't noticed raw having an effect on tension and irritability, but heavy exercise (1.5 hours per day) does. I don't have time these days for that level of exercise but I will when I get settled and find a permanent position.

Fantastic post, Lee_123.

Do you blog? Add your blog to the thread on blogging: [www.rawfoodsupport.com]!!

Could you go on a less intense anti-depressant than lithium? Maybe tell your doctor you want something short-term (like no more than a year, say). There are so many anti-depressants out there, I dont know why you should have to do something so drastic. I have seen a lot of people have miserable results with lithium, its very destructive on your body chemistry. Still, medicine can help people get out of a rut, but it is not a longterm solution. I say go for it, but talk about options and dont accept the first thing your doctor says. As far as drugs/raw, you will probably be more sensitive, but thats about it. Good Luck.

I think it is helpful not to view things as a them and us situation.

YES sometimes, some people need to be on medication and maybe for life but that doesn't mean that all doctors are hand in glove with companies that make drugs and are just in it for the money. this is such an imature and sweeping way of looking at things.

The drugs may well really help you right now to get yourself straightened out. In time you will probably want to reduce the drugs with a view to coming off them all together. Look upon it as a journey to wellness.

As other people have sensibly suggested find a doctor who will work with you on this.

I wouldn't start any new medications coming from Dr.'s before giving raw foods a chance even with some cooked, along with some advice or research on adding my own supplements or thru an ND or other holistic practitioner. Be pro-active and not passive when it come to YOUR health.

I would research what Lugols 5% solution of Iodine can do for me if I were you and knew anything about Iodine. You can do some research at curezone.org on the Iodine Supplementation Forum or at jcrows.com

I have gotten off of the thyroid tablets I was on for 32 years since this Sept. 2007 due to taking Iodine. My 24 yr.old lifted his depression with Iodine also and is now living life with travels and some adventures.

PS You might also try giving AA a real chance first and get a sponsor and if you can get to meetings so the people that have been there, done that can be helpful and supportive then that would be a start imo.

Love,
Prism



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2008 03:16PM by Prism.

Prism - really interested to hear about you coming off thyroid med. I have been taking thyroid med for an underactive thyroid for about 17months now (took several months to work out dose) I am wondering if my raw food diet could get me off these meds. some people say that if you are taking med. your thyroid will not start working again on its own and you need to come off meds first. I am afraid to do this as I was so ill until diagnosed and treated. If you don't mind could you please tell me about your experience.

All great posts.

One thing you might ask your Doc is to check your T3 levels (a form of thyroid hormone). Here is a good link: [www.stopthethyroidmadness.com]


Good luck

Brian,

The two meds your doc wants to put you on are both for depression/anxiety/mood symptoms. Just something to think consider as you commence treatment...all of those mood-type issues have been heavily linked to food sensitivities/allergies. The elimination of acidifying and allergenic substances may alleviate considerably or completely all the mental/emotional symptoms with which you are struggling. Something to note, what you are experiencing are symptoms of some other cause. The meds the doc is putting you on only treat the symptoms not the root cause. The root cause is most likely due to toxin buildup - as it is for almost all medical conditions. If you can remove that buildup and fix the damage it has cause then your symptoms will subside. I am not writing this as though it is very easy. Because it isn't.

You might want to consider and look into foods that are alkalinizing to the body (ala pH Miracle or some other reference) and books/references on food allergies and food elimination diets. While many on here do not advocate the use of supplements, you might want to consider the use of a Mg supplement such as Natural Calm and a "live" source of B Vitamins.

I have been there too. I have taken all the meds too. I have done psychotherapy too. Interestingly, detox via very clean, alkalinizing diet and homeopathics (from a legit homeopathic practitioner) "cured" what years of meds and psychotherapy could not.

If I start to eat acidic (and only I know what that means to me it is different for everyone) I will slip backwards physically and emotionally.

I hope this helps.

Good luck.

One day at a time.

Patty

Thanks everyone for your advice.
I DO know that all you mention would help alot.
I have had periods of relative peace on a raw diet.Peace meaning a state of mind where I dont want to be self destructive.I even walk and work out alot too during such periods.
My big challenge is sticking with it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I get a craving for pizza or a cheese sandwich and give in to whatever(beer),and the next thing you know I am in the hole again.
This is a loop that has been going on for years,and I know it will kill me some day.
I have had many a night where I sit and cry,while at the same time eat my pizza and wash it down with beer.
I am the biggest fool alive.
In the name of God is there really a way out of this???
Yea,I know.
Just stop!
Brian



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2008 10:30PM by Raw1228.

Raw1228 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am the biggest fool alive.

THIS is what you need to stop doing. Guilt, shame, fear, self-loathing. These things keep us in our ruts. We can't feel whole while beating ourselves up.

You are the most beautiful thing alive. You are love incarnate, seeking to become aware of itself. You are amazing, incredible, awesome, inspiring, gorgeous, and more powerful than you know.

Raw, I use to work with people who were perscribed a wide variety of antidepresants. Lithium was considered the end of the road drug. It is the strongest of all the antidepresants. It has some real nasty side effects. I wonder if you might talk with the doctor and see if there is other antidepresants or other alternative things for whatever the problem the doctor sees you have. A doctor is only human and trys to help a patient according to what he sees is the problem. Sometimes they need more information on a situation. You seem to have a hard time going raw perhaps you might persue some of the raw retriets. Some of them have a work/learn program.
I would seriously talk with the doctor about the lithium and see if there is a better drug he might offer you.
Best of luck
Pam

Seabucktho, thanks. I've gotten a lot of inspiration from folks here. This is an awesome website!

Others... well, if you think antidepressants are drastic, consider:

[www.suicide.org]

[www.nimh.nih.gov]

[www.nimh.nih.gov]

Then, of course, there are the people who don't kill themselves and kill others. Or those who merely live in misery for years and years. If they are lucky enough to live for years and years.

A acquaintance of mine was talked out of those "evil chemicals" by his well meaning purist friends. He put a shotgun in his mouth and blew his head off. (Long before Kurt Cobain had the idea.) Woke his kids who found him.

I used to work with a woman whose father didn't believe in medicine. He was a "pull yourself up by your own bootstraps" kind of tough guy. He wouldn't try an antidepressant. Thought it was for wimps. He was a police officer and put his service revolver to his head one morning.

Another friend of mine... her brother tried AA and NA. They didn't work for him. He tried an antidepressant and was beginning to deal with his life and reality without illegal drugs and booze. However, he had to stop taking his antidepressant as a result of insurance problems and killed himself by putting a hose from the exhaust pipe of his car in through the car window. Planned the whole thing out. He left a devastated wife and two young children.

The sister of a friend of mine tried to blow her head off while drunk. She only used a 22 caliber handgun. Not powerful enough. Lucky? No. She went from having a high IQ to having the IQ of a box of rocks. She's in an institution drooling in a corner.

I met a man whose brother decided to stop taking his epilepsy medication. He was going to try "the natural approach." So, all naturally he went from having his epilepsy completely under control with pharmaceuticals to having recurring, uncontrollable seizures. That guy now lives in a skilled nursing facility. If you met him today you would never know he has a college degree. He can't read, can't count, can't wipe his own butt.

People usually take pharmaceuticals because the other potential option is drastic.

I did chemotherapy a long time ago. Go ahead and "tsk, tsk" and bask in your purity. Every single other person who I met in my cancer support group who had what I had and who did NOT do chemo is dead now. Over a dozen different people. Some gave all sorts of "natural" products valiant tries. And they are all -- every single one of them -- dead. I met a remarkable woman in that group who became a very good friend. She didn't die early on. She lived for ten horribly painful years. All the colonics and wheat grass and magnesium and red clover tea and green juice and acupuncture and organic food and picturing herself surrounded by white light and meditating and herbs and so on, didn't do a thing for her disease or her pain. She didn't just die a painful death; She died a very long, protracted painful death. By the time she figured out that being a purist wasn't helping, it was too late.

She was such a beautiful person. Stubborn sometimes, but truly beautiful, really.

I avoid pharmaceuticals whenever possible. My doctors know this. That's good, because if I ask for something, I get it; And when I tell them I want to get off of something or avoid it if possible, I get their complete support.

Post-chemo, I was on over a dozen adjunctive medications. I was told to take six months to a year to get off of them. Because of my healthy lifestyle, (among other things), I was able to get off of every medication in three weeks. My doctors were astounded by the progress I made in rebuilding my stamina in the months that followed.

Not all doctors or pharmaceuticals are bad. In fact, in my experience, most are not intrinsically bad. Just potentially very powerful.

I suggest you not close any doors forever. Don't go doctor shopping and pill popping for minor problems. Just... keep your options open. Every person I met in my cancer support group who closed themselves off to the pharmaceutical option... died. Is that their just reward for having perhaps judged me for my reliance on evil pharmaceuticals? No, it's the result of stubborn refusal to consider all options.

Don't deny yourself any option.

Do you want to be right or dead? Is it that black and white? Sometimes. For some people... sometimes.

I still miss my friend.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2008 11:02PM by Lee_123.

Wow.
Very intense posts here.

I will leave the option of meds open.
I REALLY never have given them a fair chance.

One major struggle I have these days is adjusting to the house I am in.
I have been here three years now and it just never feels welcoming.I actually have bad dreams about all this.
I am missing where I grew up.My family lived there for 27 yrs.Its like my soul was left behind when we moved.And the interests I had.And just "who I was".And all the million and one memories that were built there.I miss it so much!!How in the world does a person call another place home?This grieving the loss of my childhood home is every bit as intense as losing a spouse or a friend.I am only 2 hrs away from it,and I tried to visit 2 yrs ago,but it backfired on me and really was upsetting.
Simply because I wished I could have my family back in that house,and have everything back to how it was.
Has anyone here ever had this struggle?
Would meds help with something like this?
Is this a depression.?
Lots of questions.
Pizza and beer help...some....but its so temporary.
But I do know that a raw day,with a good long walk,helps with this issue.
I need to stick with it.
Brian



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2008 12:24AM by Raw1228.

You need to consider recovering as work, and get to it. Find an AA meeting and sponsor, ( I think that option is best for you imo) no amount of raw foods, or drugs, or whatever is seemingly bugging you (house, childhood, etc.) is going to be overcome because someone gave you the magic answer to your questions.

I see that you may not yet be ready to do the work required of you to get off the cycle of binge drinking. When you are ready you will find the way or not. It's up to you to do the 'work' needed.

Love,
Prism

very good posts from prism and lee. I would like to add that I was very close to the edge once - I didn't know what was wrong with me. I eventually went to the doctor and was prescribed anti depressants. It was as if someone had thrown me a life line. I had a rest from the terrible place that I had been living in ( I was vegan) With the meds I was able to work things through and after a few years I came off them and stayed off them.

Brian
I would also like to add caution when thinking about lithium - I think it might be worth trying others first.

Seriously stop beating yourself up. What butterfly says is true but you are not in a place to see it now. Just try forgiving yourself a little bit. Treat yourself as a friend - you wouldn't be so harsh with a close friend so don't do it to yourself. Try to give yourself a positive stroke - you know say well done to yourself when you do something that you know is good for you. It's really easy to condemn and much harder to praise isn't it.

I think you have memories of happiness and that it what you are missing but you know it doesn't matter where we live - it's what's going on inside our heads that makes us happy or not. (Believe me I do know about this).

Just take one day at a time, don't dwell on what you view as mistakes, and try to like yourself and be kind to yourself

Brian,

I was very close to "the edge" less than 3 years ago. I often shudder when I think about where I was at that time - I had a plan, a backup plan, and I was set. I needed pharmaceutical intervention at that time to help me get past the worst of it. I guess the point I am trying to make is that right now, if you are in a place where you feel that you need meds to help get you to your next level then that may be the right decision for you. They are not permanent and there are many options available.

I was also on complete SAD at the time. I completely get your comment about crying while washing it down with pizza and beer. Barely a year ago I would still take an occasional Rx tranquilizer. I started exploring a living foods lifestyle because I was looking for anything to help. No, I was not desperate at that time but still wavering more than I cared.

I was extremely unhappy with my profession. I was very, very good at it but hated it. (Something I recently came to understand, you don't have to do something you don't like just because you are good at it.) I, luckily, had other options. I took a much lower paying position for now in a company with growth potential. I have to be more careful with my spending and keep a second job which I like but I am so much happier in my new position. Being more disciplined with money has helped me become more disciplined, focused in general.

In past year as well, I have read a number of books which have helped me greatly to resolve emotional "why" questions for me, as well as help me resolve why I made some decisions I did. It is for those decisions that I frequently "beat myself up." No single person on this forum or anywhere has all the answers.

As you move forward in your journey to recovery, you may open up all sorts of paths and issues for resolution. I am sure you have probably read quite a bit but here are a few books that I highly recommend if you can get from your local library: "Everything Happens for a Reason" by Mira Kirshenbaum (if you can only read one I choose this), "Follow Your heart" by Andrew Matthews (very short, simple that everyone should read), "Change or Die" by Alan Deutschman (looks at studies where people literally had to change or die and the underlying precepts as to why we don't change), also "What Should I Do With My Life" by Po Bronson (anecdotal stores from others who struggled with the same thing).

Positive energy coming your way...

Good luck.

Patty