Hi everyone

Two things - both for an article I'm writing, and for father-in-law.

Does anyone know of anyone who claims to have reversed cancer on a high-fruit raw diet? 'High fruit' is key, though doesn't have to be 80% and/or 80/10/10.

Is there a high-fruit raw retreat/centre that has a track record with cancer sufferers that has programmes running in the next few months? (Anywhere in the world)

Names/links would be great.

I don't know. Let us know what you find out.

Maybe she knows someone:

[crazysexylife.com]

Why fruit? Why not greens?

The Hippocrates Institute has a track record for helping cancer sufferers with a low-fruit greens/wheatgrass/sprouts diet.

I'm specifically interested in high-fruit because my contention is that similar results can be achieved on a high-fruit diet.

So - I'm after some case studies.

Brian Clement at his center will give you lots of greens but with fats to meet your dayly calorierequirement. But he got alot of success with cancer!

Yes - I know.

Which is why I'm specifically interested in case studies of those who have reversed cancer on a diet different from the Hippocrates one, ie high fruit.

Watching this with interest Debbie

debbietook Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
w.
>
> Does anyone know of anyone who claims to have
> reversed cancer on a high-fruit raw diet?

The key word is "claims."

In cases of spontaneous regression, it is often the case that it is initial misdiagnosis.

In cases where there is a long documented history of progression, then regression, these are exceedingly rare.

There are zero such cases involving raw vegan diets in the established literature. But without such impeccable documentation from established medical sources, such claims cannot be taken to provide proof.

What we do have is a plethora of studies suggesting that undamaged fruits and vegetables provide significant protection. I've provided lists of them in the past.

If you do still get cancer on such a diet, and some people will, it will probably be later rather than sooner, and progression will probably be slower rather than faster.

But getting rid of it entirely? We have only stories, and they might all be fairy tales, or somebody trying to get money out of you without a reasonable assurance of being able to provide what they suggest.

Personally I don't think the Clements or anyone who charges an arm and a leg and makes such cure claims is trustworthy. I would not trust them as far as I could throw them. In fact there is something especially unscrupulous if they are taking advantage of the sick, the needy, and the desperate who are anxious for something to cling to. But it really depends on the sales spiel and fine print.

[www.fruitarian.com]

www.fruitarian.com
www.fruitpages.com

All you need to know about the fruit diet on thease 2 sites.
theyre awsome!

debbie, am I correct in assuming you are looking for epidemiological data verifying the cancer-fighting efficacy of fruit-based rather than chlorophyll-based protocols?

Hippocrates refrains from high fruit for cancer patients in favor of high veg and sprout for the first two or three months. This is because, according to someone I know that's consulted with them, it is not known whether cancer cells aren't able to acquire glucose from metabolized fructose from fruits. Any competent doctor would err on the side of caution and limit all concentrated sugars in a cancer case. Unfortunately, I don't think a large enough number of human cancer patients would volunteer to go on a research trial for high-fruit therapy. If the hypothesis of the efficacy of such a therapy were incorrect, the participants would suffer tremendous setbacks almost immediately, even rapid death. That may be why it's hard to find data on this. No one wants to try.

Hey debbie, how about the "Raw Food Treatment of Cancer" By Kristine Nolfi

[books.google.com]
Twice in this book she mentions that:
"We have a meal of fruit in the morning and in the evening and a meal of vegetables at noon. We never eat fruits and vegetables at the same meal."

So that would make it a diet composed of about 66% fruit. Interestingly, they ate sprouted grains with the fruit too.

But this is an old and weird book, on another page it tells you to not crush greens or they will lose their nutients. Obviously this was before the age of green smoothies.
[books.google.com]
"green leaves may be chopped, but they must not be crushed by passing through a food mincer."



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2009 01:23AM by tropical.

what is your father in law's opinion, strategy, perspective, personal research, plan of action etc. on all of this

just curious

So what does conventional medicine think about fruit and cancer? I never found anything that says that some fruits cause cancer or impeed it's healing, quite to the contrary:

Food As Medicine By Dharma Singh Khalsa, Dharma Singh, M.D. Khalsa
[books.google.com]
"There is convincing scientific evidence that eating fresh FRUIT decreases cancer risk with no evidence to the contrary, *[editor's note: EXCEPT from certain raw food authorities specializing in cancer]* according to the American Institute of Cancer Research"

Cancer Biology By Raymond W. Ruddon has a chart with all the major cancers and what causes and prevents them. The ONLY thing listed in the preventative column is FRUITS and vegetables.
[books.google.com]


Nutrition in General Practice By Nicola Seabrook
[books.google.com]
"A large intake of FRUITS and vegetables can provide great protection against many cancers"

Nutrition in Primary Care By Briony Thomas
[books.google.com]
"In most studies of diet and cancer there is a striking relationship between low consumption of fruit and vegetables and increased cancer risk".

Comparative Quantification of Health Risks By Majid Ezzati, World Health Organization
[books.google.com]

"The substances present in FRUITS and vegetables that might have an impact on cancer incidence can be divided into agents that block the action of carcinogens (Table 9.9), agents that suppress carcinogenesis (Table 9.10) and antioxidants, which can prevent oxidative DNA damage.
The tables list:
- citrus as having terpenes and flavonoids
- yellow and orange fruits as having carotenoids
- apples as having flavonoids

This whole "fruit is bad if you have cancer" scare makes raw food seem several decades behind the times. Just like rawfoodists might be scared of coconut oil, the other day I was watching Alton Brown's show "Good Eats" and he had a screen message saying that coconut oil is healthy to eat. That's from a mainstream show that specializes in getting into the chemistry of food and cooking, and yet if you read raw food boards it's like they are stuck back in the 70's with regards to coconut oil.

[Just like rawfoodists might be scared of coconut oil, the other day I was watching Alton Brown's show "Good Eats" and he had a screen message saying that coconut oil is healthy to eat. That's from a mainstream show that specializes in getting into the chemistry of food and cooking, and yet if you read raw food boards it's like they are stuck back in the 70's with regards to coconut oil.]

Raw coconut oil raises LDL more than virgin olive oil.

Yes, I've read the actual paper. If you read it, too, and still find a reason to eat coconut in quantity, or still think it is a fantastically healthy thing to eat, I'll eat my entire straw hat collection.

I mean ok, a little bit, but several tbsp per day just because something you read where somebody was trying to sell you something is too much.

I am not "stuck in the 70s" but informed. I certainly don't know everything, though.

I am always skeptical when people make crazy claims about particular foods, but especially so when they are promoting things that elevate the bad parts of plasma cholesterol.

PS fruit is not causal for cancer, but eating some of the seeds in massive quantities is not advised.

We need glucose. If we don't eat it, our bodies will make some for us from what we do eat. But people who eat that way (i.e. Aleuts and long-term Atkins dieters) are not longevity champs.

Considering the alternatives: starches, which are just long chains of glucose, which usually come from sources relatively low in phytochemicals and fiber, proteins, which usually come from sources relatively low in phytochemicals and fiber, or fats, which also usually come from sources relatively low in phytochemicals and fiber (by relatively low I mean per calorie) fruit is an excellent choice.

Check out "The Grape Cure" by Johanna Brandt.

There are some articles on the internet

HI,

The book 'live food factor' by Susan Schenk & Victoria Bidwell lists MANY cases of cancer reversal. It costs about $30 from amazon. I'm newly raw this Jan & I can't believe all the great info in this book.

I pray this helps.

Joe

Hi

Many thanks everyone.

Must stress that although I appreciate your giving of your time, I'm fully conversant with the fruitarian diet, the benefits of fruit and vegetables, the raw diet generally re cancer! :-)

(Further edit to this post!) - Although I realise these posts will benefit others - sorry for being so curmudgeonly!!

My questions are specifically those asked. It's just that I'm up to my eyes right now and I personally can't take part in a general conversation about cancer, although appreciate that others contributing might like to. Hope you'll understand.

Tropical - many thanks for the Kristine Nolfi memory-jogger. I have her case history in my files somewhere and will look at it again.

Bryan - many thanks for ref to Grape Cure.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2009 06:22AM by debbietook.

BTW, my article about fruit and The Big C (and the Big D, if I have time/space!) should be up on the blog in a few days if anyone's interested.

And it also currently includes the first two parts of my 'Fool for Fruit' 'trilogy'.

www.debbietookrawforlife.blogspot.com

(not selling anything!)

hi debbie:

got your PM reply. much appreciated

i thought i'd also give you a link to dr. lorraine day who got rid of her breast cancer via raw vegan amongst other holistic measures


[www.drday.com]

even though it wasn't 100% fruit, since fruit is a part of the raw vegan diet, i have included it here

good luck

I have read A LOT about raw food preventing cancer.. not as much about healing.

If going by the botanical definition of fruit, then flaxseed has been tested for prostate cancer epidemiological biomarkers in a 30 day study on men:

"CONCLUSIONS: Findings suggest that flaxseed is safe and associated with biological alterations that may be protective for prostate cancer."

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]


Green fruit, that is chlorophyll containing fruit, could arguably be said to be indicated for treatment of colon cancer, where chlorophyll is thought to be anti-mutagenic.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2009 02:10PM by loeve.

This thread is interesting to me because if fungus is at the root of cancer, which I have read a lot people claiming recently, it would lead many to believe that, although fruit might prevent cancer, if there were an overgrowth of fungus in the body, fruit would be thought to feed the fungus and cause the over growth to worsen and eventually causing cancer to manifest or worsen.

I would be interested in knowing if people suffering from cancer have been cured by high fruit also.

I will definitely be interested to read your article Debbie. Thank you!!

..men eating PROCESSED meat may benefit from eating "green vegetables" according to this preliminary study

"Rate ratios for colon cancer increased across successive quintiles of the ratio of heme/chlorophyll among men only (1.00, 1.08, 1.01, 1.32, and 1.43; P(trend) = 0.01). No associations were observed between fresh meat and colorectal cancer. CONCLUSION: Our data suggest an elevated risk of colon cancer in men with increasing intake of heme iron and decreasing intake of chlorophyll. Further research is needed to confirm these results."

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

..there is also "green fruit", imo, i.e. cucumbers with skin.

tropical,

We all agree that high fruit is preventive for cancer, and clinicians do too. But where active cancer is concerned, the protocol might need to be different: see what I said above about cancer cells and metabolized glucose uptake.

Bryan,

Thanks for mentioning the "Grape Cure!" Am curious to see whether it's what I think it is.

loeve,

I remember reading with fascination about Joanna Budwig's Protocol--fresh ground flaxseed--and its high efficacy rate. Unfortunately, she discovered that the cancer-fighting phospholipids in flax are most bioavailable when consumed with sulpher rich proteins, like cultured dairy. Hence her flaxseed and quark mixture. I don't know what one would replace the quark with if one were vegan . . .

debbie,

Hope you find what you're looking for; look forward to reading your latest blog entry.

Thanks to everyone that's posted here. It's important to have as much information on this subject as possible.

> I remember reading with fascination about Joanna
> Budwig's Protocol--fresh ground flaxseed--and its
> high efficacy rate. Unfortunately, she discovered
> that the cancer-fighting phospholipids in flax are
> most bioavailable when consumed with sulpher rich
> proteins, like cultured dairy. Hence her flaxseed
> and quark mixture. I don't know what one would
> replace the quark with if one were vegan . . .

Tamukha
Yes, processed meat and processed dairy sound like carcinogen producing suspects, which might help digest flax by 'virtue' of resulting strong stomach acids and so on.

Fruit and/or flaxseed may be beneficial, especially if it is organic ripe produce, and optimal amounts of fruit/flax fiber are eaten in reasonable food combinations, and one does not go overboard with the flax, 1 to 4 tablespoons per day being reasonable, as I recall.

This site has a case study of a high fruit cancer fighting diet:
[www.cancercarer.com]
"The Dries Cancer Diet is about eating RAW fruit and vegetables for three months.

Dr. Dries gives you a list of fruit and vegetables ranked I (one) through VIII (eight) in order of the amount you should consume. Those in group one should be consumed at every meal and daily. Those in group eight are more for adding a bit of variety and supplementing the main items.

For example, Group I consists of the following:
Pineapple, Honeydew Melon, Raspberries, Cactus Fruits, Avocado, Pollen, and Comb Honey.

Group II is:
Bilberries, Kiwi, Cherries, Persimmon, Apricots, Yellow Spanish Melon, Melon, Galea Melon, Mango, Papaya, Almonds, Chervil, Mushrooms, and Honey.

As you can see, it is mostly tropical fruit and we quickly learned how to pick good fruit from the ordinary ones.

You are advised to consume 25 raw almonds per day, soaked overnight in water to make them a bit softer. We actually did not enjoy them much, and preferred the Brazil Nuts (Group V) and Hazel Nuts (Group V).


Detox Effect

The diet will clean your system out. You are encouraged to eat as often as you want. And you will feel years of toxins leaving your body. Your body odor may go foul for a while (good test for the relationship), and even your perspiration may take on a foul smell. But once that is finished, you start feeling very clean.

Mark's comment after three weeks was, "I can feel clean blood circulating through my system."

And the white of his eyes had turned the whitest white - a bluish white - !"


The Dries Cancer diet is summarized in this book:
[books.google.com]

Basically the same info is here:
[www.fruitarian.com]

And the book "The Dries Cancer Diet" on Amazon
[www.amazon.com]

arugula Wrote:
> I am always skeptical when people make crazy
> claims about particular foods, but especially so
> when they are promoting things that elevate the
> bad parts of plasma cholesterol.

I'm always skeptical when big businesses make crazy claims about particular foods being bad, but especially so when they are selling the competing oils and when their crazy claims damage third world economies.

"It is important to realize that at that time (1960s) the edible oil industry in the United States seized the opportunity to promote its polyunsaturates. The industry did this by developing a health issue focusing on Key's anti-saturated fat bias. With the help of the edible oil industry lobbying in the United States, federal government dietary goals and guidelines were adopted incorporating this mistaken idea that consumption of saturated fat was causing heart disease. This anti-saturated fat issue became the agenda of government and private agencies in the US and to an extent in other parts of the world. This is the agenda that has had such a devastating effect on the coconut industry for the past decade."

And what about lauric acid, have you read this article about the deliberate misinformation that various organizations and companies put out about coconut oil and a quote from the article:

"Should coconut oil be used to prevent coronary heart disease?
[www.westonaprice.org]
There is another aspect to the coronary heart disease picture. This is related to the initiation of the atheromas that are reported to be blocking arteries. Recent research is suggestive that there is a causative role for the herpes virus and cytomegalovirus in the initial formation of atherosclerotic plaques and the recloging of arteries after angioplasty. (New York Times 1991) What is so interesting is that the herpes virus and cytomegalovirus are both inhibited by the antimicrobial lipid monolaurin; but monolaurin is not formed in the body unless there is a source of lauric acid in the diet. Thus, ironically enough, one could consider the recommendations to avoid coconut and other lauric oils as contributing to the increased incidence of coronary heart disease."


This info in basically repeated in this book:
Principles of Orthomolecularism By R. A. S. Hemat
[books.google.com]

Many thanks, everyone.

(Tropical - had listed the Dries diet - thanks for further information).

Anyhow, this is just to say that I may well forget to check the thread now it's been 'moved' to Other Health Topics (Not Pertaining to Raw and Living Food). Not sure why, as I was specifically asking about cancer in relation to a raw foods (high fruit) diet. It's a pity as I don't think posts in this forum are viewed as frequently as in the other.

If anyone reading the thread from now on has any excellent case studies (high fruit raw only, please) could you pm me? Thanks!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2009 07:35PM by debbietook.

Yes, check out Brandt's book as Bryan suggested. And further to that 'cure', contemporary research has discovered an element called 'resveratrol' within the grape that arrests cancer and induces apoptosis. The journal article links below.

[clincancerres.aacrjournals.org]

[www.pancreasjournal.com]

> I remember reading with fascination about Joanna
> Budwig's Protocol--fresh ground flaxseed--and its
> high efficacy rate. Unfortunately, she discovered
> that the cancer-fighting phospholipids in flax are
> most bioavailable when consumed with sulpher rich
> proteins, like cultured dairy. Hence her flaxseed
> and quark mixture. I don't know what one would
> replace the quark with if one were vegan . . .

Gabriel Cousens recommended flax seeds + spirulina and bee pollen to replace the cottage cheese and flax in the Budwig protocol. I know spirulina and bee pollen are not really vegan, but maybe they're a bit of a better choice than dairy protein.

Sharrhan:


[www.facebook.com]

Thanks Kwan--I think chemically those would be a good substitute for quark. Another gun in my arsenal should I ever need to deploy it!