Loeve, that is so sad that BP didn't have the extra tanker to store the oil. Maybe they believed their own low estimates.

The situation for the wildlife is truly heartwrenching, but that word doesn't really begin to describe it, because the pain is all theirs. Yes, such a shame.

Just saw a Wolf Blitzer interview with a guy from UC Santa Barbara who is on one of the govt. panels trying to count the barrels of oil. He said his group has requested permission from BP to go down and actually measure the oil. The group is ready to go, but so far, no response from BP. The interview covered a lot of interesting stuff, including concerns about the well casing. There's no transcript yet, but when it's online, I'll try to post it here. I think you and Tamukha might find it interesting.

Riverhouse, I agree that some people belong in jail over this. Not just some company people, but possibly bought-off "regulators" as well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2010 11:59PM by suncloud.

Yes, Suncloud, after a second look apparently BP cannot pump untreated oil into their ships. As the oil comes onboard it is filtered to separate the gas from the oil etc. and only then allowed into the holds of ships, which makes sense but why the delay in getting more crude oil processing capacity on site...

The Wall Street Journal wrote an account of the chain of events leading up to the explosion April 20th which describes more penny pinching, cut corners, procedural mistakes and finally the failure to "push the button" to activate the BOP. Yes, in the final commotion of the blowout the manager had stepped out and the platform workers never did activate the blowout preventer, or so it appears. If this is true then the BOP is wide open gushing more like 50,000 barrels/day instead of the 1,000 reported shortly after the disaster. BP should have been aware of this possibility from the very beginning --

"About 9:45, the seawater and remaining mud began to head back up the pipe. Witnesses say they saw mud shooting out of the derrick like water from a firehose. A worker on the rig floor made a frantic call to BP's Mr. Vidrine, who had gone to his office, according to his interview with the Coast Guard.

"Transocean workers raced to tame the well. Nothing worked. This was no ordinary gas kick. It was far more ferocious.

"Workers rushed to hit the emergency button to activate the blowout preventer's clamps and detach the rig from the well, according to witness accounts. They were too late. Gas flowing out found an ignition source, and an explosion rocked the rig."

[online.wsj.com]

There was supposed to be a backup device to activate the BOP in such an event. Apparently that also failed.

Sorry I missed the Wolf Blitzer piece. It looks like the story is unfolding.

..ah, I see the BOP had a backup "deadman" switch which was supposed to automatically activate the blowout preventer if the primary control switch got severed. The problem I see is the explosion knocked out the floating platform's engines allowing the platform to drift off tearing out the wires to the BOP and with them the backup system. At least, I don't see any backup system or wires dangling from the BOP waiting for someone to gather them up and remote activate the BOP.

[online.wsj.com]

The backup systems are left up to the oil companies to figure out. Guess this one had a flaw in the design.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/2010 12:58PM by loeve.

..from Reuters press --

"BP said the deadman switch did not activate in the April 20 blowout.)
...
"As a final backup, B.O.P.s must be able to be activated by robotic submersibles. So the control units have special valves that can use hydraulic fluid provided by the submersible using a probe called a hot stab. BP officials said that since the accident they had been able to activate some of the rams to some degree using this method."

[uk.reuters.com]

..so supposedly some of the rams have been partially activated by submersibles. Hmmm, this doesn't seem to have slowed the flow rate though...

..and the BOP had been modified at the request of BP. These "double preventers" have two rams to seal off a blowout. One ram was deactivated for use in testing making it useless as an emergency shut-off --

"Stupak also questioned why the BOP had been modified.

"Newman, the Transocean executive told the committee that, indeed, the BOP had been modified in 2005 at the request of BP and with approval of the Minerals Management Service.

"Stupak said the committee had been told that one of the BOP's ram drivers had been changed so it could be used for routine testing and was no longer designed to activate in an emergency. He said after the spill BP "spent a day trying to use this ... useless test ram" which no longer was configured for emergency use."

[www.cbsnews.com]

A single ram can be ineffective if acting on a joint in a drill pipe, or obviously if there's a hydraulic fluid leak, which there was.

Also, the "dead battery" spoken of in the media was supposed to activate the deadman switch according to this cbs news article. I read somewhere these deadmen switches are sometimes shut off for fear of false alarms which can activate the BOP necessitating expensive repairs and delays.

"Below is the transcript for the Wolf Blitzer interview. It leaves me with the impression that knowing the numbers, and having other information about the structure of the well (that has not yet been shared by BP) will make some difference in going forward safely with attempting to shut off the well..."

Great interview, so we shouldn't be shocked to learn the actual flow is between 30-100,000 barrels/day. Wow! That's what we need though, accurate data to base decisions on.

I've been pondering the aftermath of the explosion and it occured to me to look to see when the Deepwater Horizon oil rig became separated from the well. During the 36 hour fire the rig stayed connected with the riser acting as an anchor line (spewing oil and gas), the well casing the anchor and the top of the BOP as the point of attachment. It astounds me that there was not some sort of emergency disconnect so the crippled rig could drift with the current out of harms way --

"This was an attempt to buy time while attempts were made to stop the oil and gas that were feeding the flames from coming up the riser pipe. If it had been successful, it would have reduced the flames and allowed special teams of firefighters to board the stricken rig and extinguish the remaining fire.[27]

"After burning for approximately 36 hours, the Deepwater Horizon sank on April 22, 2010, in water approximately 5,000 ft (1,500 m) deep, and has been located resting on the seafloor approximately 1,300 ft (400 m) (about a quarter of a mile) northwest of the well."

[en.wikipedia.org]

..then there's the question whether the well casing is designed to act as an anchor in case the 33,000 ton floating oil rig loses power and is carried and tossed by the current and waves.

..just to confirm, these deep water rigs don't use anchors but rely on global positioning and thrusters to stay over the wellhead --

Mooring Equipment

Winches N/A
Wire/Chain N/A
Anchors N/A

[www.deepwater.com]

Amazing this is already in Wikipedia!

One person on cable news said that the oil rig sank because of the weight of all the water that was used to try to stop the fire. Kinda don't think that's correct, but whatever the case, the same person mentioned that there should be an automatic disconnect between the rig and the well, because when the rig sank, that's what twisted the pipe and opened it up underwater. (can't remember who said that.)

From [www.ravallirepublic.com]:

"The largest oil and gas producer in the Gulf listed seven mechanisms where its hunt for a cause is focused. Four of those involve the blowout preventer, a massive piece of machinery that sits atop the wellhead and is supposed to act as a safety device of last resort. The other three areas of investigation involve the cementing and casing of the wellhead."

From the link provided by Loeve, [www.deepwater.com]
it looks like the cementing was Haliburton's job.

Here's a link to a Washington Post article that includes some of the latest news on the spill and a slide show. One of the slides is an illustration of two possible new methods for trying to shut down the well.

[www.washingtonpost.com]

Looks like the newest attempt for measuring the flow is to insert pressure sensors into the containment cap, using submersible robots. Apparently they're working on this today....

Suncloud, I was reading of previous deep water oil drilling disasters and breakdowns and these floating rigs do occasionally lose power, drift, suffer broken risers triggering BOPs, etc. and one in Brazil a decade ago blew out and sank.

These wellheads appear to be cemented in place like the Rock of Gibralter to handle such contingencies. Haliburton has been cementing these casings in for decades and are first rate, IMO.

Shutting down the well completely at the well head now seems to me where the focus should be. The BOP manufacterer Cameron needs to get in the game and help configure a containment cap or a means to affix a second operational BOP to shut this well down 100%.

Just want to add my two cents
I don't like this situation any more than anyone else, but I think it would be wise for those who are so eager for justice to remember the proverb "let he who has not sinned cast the frist stone".

we COULD change it to "He who has not killed billions of defenseless sea creatures for the sake of a little penny pinching, cast the first stone." I think that would be more applicable here.

..and caused the death of defenseless wildlife secretly. It's one thing to announce to your neighbor that your coming to bash him, and another to sneak up on him in the night.

BP might still be saying their well is leaking about 1000 barrels a day had not others spoken up.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/15/2010 11:18AM by loeve.

That is my whole point Curator, everyone plays the blame game. I don't expect anyone else to agree with this but IMO if we as individuals were in harmony with ourselves and each other then there would be little chance of a disaster like this happening. Pointing fingers and meting out justice does not bring resolution to a situation.

My viewpoint is that a situation like this is a culmination of a society whos values are based in materialism over selflessness and that it can only be expected. Like, how many people are taking responcibility for their own carbon footprint ? How many people act for the benifit of others on a daily basis ?

Self interest begets competition and external disregard begets inefficiency and problems... and when you get enough of it, you have an oil rig disaster. Or a third world country that is starving because it is profitable for a first world country etc.

We should be getting better flow rate numbers soon. The pressure sensor is in place in the BOP and the Q4000 oil rig will be hooked up soon to the mud returns and flaring whatever they collect and telling us how much that is, thank-you. Every little bit of data helps the community of scientists and engineers who need to study this.

That's good that the pressure sensors are in place!

I believe that if government inspectors allowed the industry to bypass whatever sparse regulations exist (in return for favors), and if the industry submitted false statements during the application and/or inspection procedures, then there should be serious consequences for those perpetrators.

Although I strongly believe in "innocent until proven guilty", it's beginning to appear that such violations might have occurred, and given the resulting deaths and the environmental catastrophe at hand, if laws were broken, there should be serious consequences over and above mere fines.

I also believe that private industries that drastically screw up should be publically criticized, so they're hit where it hurts - the pocketbook! That's how policies within industries are changed.

As for who is ultimately to blame, I agree that the blame can be shared by all of us. We didn't care enough to try to prevent this, so we got exactly what we deserved. The shame of it is that the innocent wild creatures didn't deserve this at all. The pain and torture that all of them are experiencing at this very moment, is all of our faults. Except for the workers who died and their families, it's the innocent wildlife that is suffering most - at least for the present. It will come back around to us though, and not just in job losses.

Apart from demanding that the energy industry is safe, yes, we could all improve on our own carbon footprint. For myself, I've lived completely off the grid since 1986, with or without an alternative source of energy. I grow and buy organic, and I recycle. But I do drive a car.

We would all do well to scrutinize our own lives to see what we can personally do to improve on our lifestyle choices and to also demand that our energy resources be safely procured - for the sake of those who are innocent and wild and do just fine without all our human material bs. If we care, that is. If we don't care, well then, we're in for repeat after repeat, until we've killed our whole planet, and ourselves.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/15/2010 08:09PM by suncloud.

IVE been noted for large amounts of methane...


ok yeah, that was cheap and immature, but hey, I really really felt like lightening the mood a tiny bit...hehe

This illustrates a point. We can vent our methane easily. An oil reservoir beneith a mile of water and two miles of rock cannot vent its methane until the pressure builds to volcanic proportions or an earthquake creates a fault.

EUREKA! IVE GOT IT!!! we just need to give the oil well a sphincter!!!

OK Curator! Perfect solution.

One correction on my previous post. It's 35,000 - 60,000, not 45,000 - 60,000. I think Loeve had the correct numbers.

The BBC is now thoroughly engaged in this disaster. The UK's #1 company is taking a huge hit and seems to be stepping up with hopefully the whole of Great Britain now rallying around solving this oil spill with the US. One of the ideas in the BBC was to do a better cap, a scientist suggesting a piggyback functioning BOP still an option.

Going back to the causes of the well failure, one thing I could never understand is how subcontractor, Haliburton's well case cementing could have been set and cured after only 20 hours --

"The accident occurred 20 hours after the cementing. Depending on the design of the job, oil well cements are expected to set in 18-24 hours." [search.aol.com]

To say the cement has "set" is not the same as saying it had "cured", a cement term indicating that it has reached full strength. In any case 20 hours seems to be cutting it a little close, leading to the possible failure of the bottom cement plug or collapse of the production casing. This might be relevant to diagnosing the conditions within the well casing and BOP going forward.

..to clarify, the Deep Water Horizon crew was removing the mud from the riser at the 20 hour mark, a step that is thought might have contributed to the destabilization and blowout of the well. The column of mud in the riser above the BOP had been acting as a backup blowout preventer in a way. Maybe it was all standard procedure...

A setback for our relations with our special friends, the people of England--BP is suspending payment of dividends to shareholders(most of the English have invested in BP, traditionally) and the populace is up in arms that the president dares levy gimongous fines on those scoundrels that their pensions will pay for! It's a bad business.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2010 04:47PM by Tamukha.

Horizon 'Nightmare Well' Days Before Blast, Oil Spill





WASHINGTON (AP) -- BP took measures to cut costs in the weeks before the catastrophic blowout in the Gulf of Mexico as it dealt with one problem after another, prompting a BP engineer to describe the doomed rig as a "nightmare well," according to internal documents released Monday.

The comment by BP engineer Brian Morel came in an e-mail April 14, six days before the Deepwater Horizon rig explosion that killed 11 people and has sent tens of millions of gallons of oil into the Gulf in the nation's worst environmental disaster.

The e-mail was among dozens of internal documents released by the House Energy and Commerce Committee, which is investigating the explosion and its aftermath.

B.P. can not cover the cost to the envirment it has destroyed.
It was a crime! Im for running the bastards out of the Gulf and onto the next space probe. All the stinking money in the world cant fix this insane scene.
Also If you invested in B.P. you are guilty, the history of this company is
the worst. knocking over govts around the world to steal oil.
B.P. Stole Irans oil with the help of the their installed shaw killed countlees
humans. Jail em. cancel the leases, asset forfiture now all of it

Oops! In the post above, that should say Tony Hayward (not Haward or Hayard).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2010 10:54PM by suncloud.

Cement Bond Log"
"BP did not run a 9- to 12-hour procedure called a cement bond log to assess the integrity of the cement seal. BP had a crew from Schlumberger on the rig on the morning of April 20 for the purpose of rUlUling a cement bond log, but they departed after BP told them their services were not needed."

Suncloud, that's a killer that they didn't do that cement check on the well casing. Thanks for the review of the hearings. It's all very interesting to learn how it went.

What was missing for me in the hearings is a review of the solutions. The "oil drum" blog discusses what has likely been occuring in the well over the last few weeks and as we speak; oil, gas, sand and purhaps rocks shooting up the well with velocity and maybe eroding the BOP and possibly accounting partly for why the spill rate seems to be ever increasing, which is all the more reason to plug it once and for all as soon as possible --


[www.politicsdaily.com]

"Why do estimates of the crude gushing from BP's Gulf oil spill keep spiraling upward? Even if you believe BP is nefarious and trying to put out low numbers, that may not be the only culprit. The timely blog The Oil Drum points out (hat tip Andrew Sullivan) that it's not just calculations of the spillage that are growing -- it's the spillage itself.

"It's "called erosion, and simply put, the oil and gas that are flowing out of the rock are bringing small amounts of that rock (in the form of sand) out with them," The Oil Drum writes. "Rocks that contain lots of oil are not that strong and are easily worn away by the flow of fluid through them."

Another thing, these relief wells being drilled have been viewed as a sure fix. I just don't get how they work exactly and am not convinced all the factors such as pressure and well depth have been taken into account, and have not heard how these wells differ from the failed one. It's the same technology and they'll be more careful surely but there's a lot they're asking to be accepted on faith, IMO.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2010 02:23PM by loeve.

Going back to the causes of the well failure, one thing I could never understand is how subcontractor, Haliburton's well case cementing could have been set and cured after only 20 hours --


This time we have to give credit to Haliburton. If their advice was taken
it would not have blown out, Haliburton said the well needed 21 blowout boxes at 50 grand each, they skiped it not because of the cost, they were not going for 5hrs of down time for pumping, You see this is a crime! ( bed fracture theories)- not a flume? from the Hopi tribe- The signs are interpreted as follows: The First Sign is of guns. The Second Sign is of the pioneers' covered wagons. The Third Sign is of longhorn cattle. The Fourth Sign describes the railroad tracks. The Fifth Sign is a clear image of our electric power and telephone lines. The Sixth Sign describes concrete highways and their mirage-producing effects. The Seventh Sign foretells of oil spills in the ocean.
hundred thousand barrells a day give or take? in the air every day one billion barrels every day world wide, is the garage full yet?
thats like what eight hundred Valdes tankers vaporizing every day.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2010 09:22PM by riverhousebill.

Meanwhile... another slice of humanity are getting on with caring for the planet that we have left, and providing solutions for the future...
[www.positivenews.org.uk]

riverhousebill Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This time we have to give credit to Haliburton. If
> their advice was taken
> it would not have blown out, Haliburton said the
> well needed 21 blowout boxes at 50 grand each,
> they skiped it not because of the cost, they were
> not going for 5hrs of down time for pumping, You
> see this is a crime! ( bed
> fracture theories)- not a flume? from the
> Hopi tribe- The signs are interpreted as follows:
> The First Sign is of guns. The Second Sign is of
> the pioneers' covered wagons. The Third Sign is of
> longhorn cattle. The Fourth Sign describes the
> railroad tracks. The Fifth Sign is a clear image
> of our electric power and telephone lines. The
> Sixth Sign describes concrete highways and their
> mirage-producing effects. The Seventh Sign
> foretells of oil spills in the ocean.
> hundred thousand barrells a day give or take? in
> the air every day one billion barrels every day
> world wide, is the garage full yet?
> thats like what eight hundred Valdes tankers
> vaporizing every day.

Even if the blowout was an accident the containment effort seems negligent with so much oil still going into the ocean. It turns out BP has partners who are not happy about how things have gone. Anadarko, a 25% owner of the well is claiming "gross negligence or wilful misconduct" over the spill. [news.bbc.co.uk] BP is saying Anadarko is responsible for 25% of the cleanup costs. BP has good cash flow and may well ride this out. I'm not sure about the partners.

The Hopi tribe might have already seen more oil covering the ocean than they dreamed possible, the Ixtoc 1 ocean spill off Mexico in '79 the all time worst single-well ocean failure. BP is preparing for a flow rate of 80,000 barrels/day to be safe. Let's hope so.

I wonder if it's feasible to put an underwater pipeline linking this well to the network in the Gulf or to the shore, something more hurricane proof. They are shutting down collection even for thunderstorms at the moment.

Dr. Masaru Emoto's Healing Prayer for the Gulf
[humanityhealing.ning.co]…..os-healing

'Focusing our energies in response to the Gulf tragedy and for healing the waters and its inhabitants' –

Yesterday at our spiritual center we read a letter from Dr. Masaru Emoto who many of you will recognize as the scientist from Japan who has done all the research and publications about the characteristics of water. Among other things, his research reveals that water physically responds to emotions.

Right now, most of us have the predominantly angry emotion when we consider what is happening in the Gulf. And while certainly we are justified in that emotion, we may be of greater assistance to our planet and its life forms, if we sincerely, powerfully and humbly pray the prayer that Dr Emoto, himself, has proposed.

"I send the energy of love and gratitude to the water and all the living creatures in the Gulf of Mexico and its surroundings.

To the whales, dolphins, pelicans, fish, shellfish, plankton, coral, algae, and all living creatures . . . I am sorry. Please forgive me. Thank you. I love you. "

We are passing this request to people who we believe might be willing to participate in this prayer, to set an intention of love and healing that is so large, so overwhelming that we can perform a miracle in the Gulf of Mexico.

We are not powerless.

We are powerful.

Our united energy, speaking this prayer daily…multiple times daily….can literally shift the balance of destruction that is happening.
We don't have to know how……we just have to recognize that the power of love is greater than any power active in the Universe today.

Please join us in often repeating this healing prayer of Dr. Emoto.

And feel free to copy and paste this to send it around the planet.

Let's take charge, and do our own clean up! And so it is! Pass it on.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Thank you Dr. Emoto

"The Seventh Sign foretells of oil spills in the ocean...hundred thousand barrells a day give or take?"

A story out this morning is that a BP internal document notes the worst case scenario flow rate at 4.2 million gallons/day, (4,200,000gal/day / 42 gal/barrel = 100,000 barrels/day). That's if the BOP was removed.

[www.cbsnews.com]

That's just this one spill. The Seventh Sign foretells of a global problem? Worldwide there are multiple spills ongoing or that add up on the average...