I'm a published fitness model who's switched to the Raw Diet and have been very strict and organic. I've been on this for 4 month's and have come from a perfect in shape physique to a flabby, loss of muscle with no strength to lift the weights that were so easy to lift. I've been taking HEMP protein, maca and goji berries along with oat milk, fruits and vegetables, seeds and nuts...all organic. I've eaten when I'm hungry, so I'm not trying to starve. I'm out of shape and look flabby. It's obviously because I'm not getting any protein that sustains the body of a weight lifter. I've read RAW POWER and the book is at a fault. I have not found anyone out there in a RAW FORUM that is truly in my classificaton of fitness and who's been through this. I wanted the RAW DIET to be a concrete substantial new life style diet for me because it promised so many attractive benefits, but the delivery for a body builder is lacking. I think it's better for people who are mostly sedentary and the people who obviously aren't working out as hard as I do. Today at the GYM I had to lower my weights by 30 to 40 lbs just to get through my work out. This is a big RED FLAG to me. What does anyone have to say to me? And please don't tell me you won Mr. Olympia on banans's because I don't buy that mind set anymore.

Never heard of anyone getting "flabby" on raw food.

You are dennis from the other board aren't you? Are you really looking for answers? I have good reason to believe you're not really a fitness model.

The raw diet is a "natural" diet. It helps us become more in tune with nature and our surroundings. Gyms and weights don't occur "naturally" so I don't see any reason that a "natural" diet should help with that. Although it does enable me to be very active and walk 5 to 10 miles per day.

Rob

--
Rob Hull - Funky Raw
My blog: [www.rawrob.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2006 10:53PM by Funky Rob.

Hey nedsin,

>>>I think it's [rawfoods is] better for people who are mostly sedentary and the people who obviously aren't working out as hard as I do.

ummmm, no. I call bullsh-t. your way off. I'm sorry your experience has been negative, but you are wrong in that statement. you are either lying or need more education/experience in physiology and raw nutrition. If your doing that kind of work-out your not going to get "flabby" especially on rawfoods. You might however temporarily lose fat laced between all of your muscles (everybody has this) sometimes when you transition to raw this happens and you see how ripped and torn and weak your bulky muscles really were. It takes awile to rebuild yourself with real nurishment.

dont be defensive, Im just trying to be clear.

One doesn't lose muscle on the raw diet, nor does one gain muscle. Muscular people whose muscles appear to shrink on the raw diet didn't lose muscle, but lost water and fat that was marbled in with the muscle. A typical bodybuilder has such a high fat unhealthy diet that their muscles contain a lot of fat.

Even when fasting and drinking only water, the body will first consume all the fat on the body before autolyzing (or digesting) its own muscle tissue. So if you body became flabby, it couldn't been because of lack of nutrients, because fat is the first thing the body consumes, not muscle.

I'm taken aback that I've been dismembered here by some of you who think I'm a fake, especially Narzzz, who the ___ are you? I can't believe you would be so critical and mean. You don't know me. I'm glad I don't know you. I'm truly a fitness model and I've been constantly on the search of a cleaner diet that didn't include altering the purity of the food I consume. My diet was close to a diabetic diet. Less carbs, less fat, and more protein. (by the way, How does a diabetic stay on this diet when there is so much sugar and carbs)?
The protein I ate was of the leanest organic meat I could find, but somehow this just gross'd me out. I've alway's been on a quest for the best, cleanest, healthiest diet and found the RAW FOOD diet. I'm not fat and have no marbeled fat as Bryan said I may. I have about 4 to 6% body fat at all times, (lean muscle). If you don't believe I'm a model, watch for my centerfold in London's For Women magazine, coming up in the next few month's.

Hi Nedsin

Muscle needs a lot of calories just to maintain and even more to gain. How many calories do you eat a day? Have you calculated how much protein you are getting?

I am not 100% raw as I don't let diet rule my life but I do eat a lot of raw food because it make me feel great. If your weights in the gym are going down and you have no energy something is wrong and needs changing as in my view your diet should make you feel great and full of energy. Since your body is your job I can see that you need answers.

Sorry I can't be of more help.

Galileo

I don't know exactly how many calories I eat a day, but this is what I ate so far today.

Two banana's, 2 scoops of hemp protein, maca, goji berries.
A hand full of raw Almonds.
a whole cantalope, 2 scoops of hemp protein, maca, goji berries.
two huge, big giant, salads of greens, with organic salad dressing, and raw sunflower seeds, 2 scoops of hemp protein, maca, goji berries.
I may eat another GIANT green salad and that might be all for today. I eat when I'm hungry and I eat a lot. If I'm hungry, I eat. (Hemp has omega 3's in it), which is a good thing.
When I was on a regular diet with meat, I ate less because I was more satisfied quickly. The Raw Diet keeps me feeling hungry. I work out hard and need fuel.

Hi Nedsin,

Sorry to hear you are running into some bumps. Just keep working on what to eat.

I think Galileo is right. You need more calories to build muscles. I think that a person on the raw diet needs to eat 12-14 fruits a day (the serving size about the size of a mediun apple. Fruit contains calories that a person needs to burn. Fruit sugars are different than processed sugars, btw. You may want to try to see your calorie and fat intake on www.fitday.com. I personally find it useful.

I hope this helps, and best wishes.

P.S.- [s12.invisionfree.com]
[s12.invisionfree.com]

Here is a site The Fruitarian One posted on here. Hope this helps!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2006 02:43AM by shep252.

hey nedsin,

maybe your disatisfaction is due to the chemical changes from not getting protien from meat. I know there is an uncomfortable transition that has to take place. maybe detox. I suggest talking to Storm from [www.thegardendiet.com] or The Fruitarian One...

I'm not having a detox problem, you are wrong. I'm fine, I love the RAW diet and don't have a problem at all with it. I only want to know how to get more protein to build muscle. I'm the only one on this forum that work's out six day's a week for two to three hours a day. That is what I'm talking about. Try working out like this on a bunch of banana's? It's not a toxic problem. I was never a hard core SAD diet person. so you are off on that, nice try.

How many calories were you eating before you went raw? From the menu you posted, it looks like less than 2000, which is pretty low for a male bodybuilder. And then if you take into account that most of the fiber you eat doesn't yield any calories, especially from all that hemp protein powder, it's even less. Anyone will feel weak and lose muscle if calories drop too low.

Try using fitday.com to track how much fat/protein/carbs you're eating. A high fat diet also makes some people feel sluggish and weaker, and it looks like you eat a lot of fat from the nuts, seeds, and hemp.

I saw Storms pictures and quite frankly he is not what I consider a good example to look at. He's kind of flabby. and just a normal person's body. I don't think too many of the people on here, know what I'm talking about?

Opinion:

-High physical performance and fitness are often held up to be the gold standard. The fact is, each person must determine what is the best diet for them...after doing all the research....and make goals...and stick to them.

-Scenario: If you decided that showing more love to your family was the right thing to do....so you started coming over more often...and sending flowers.....and so on.......and your family started yelling at you.....would you stop trying to love them?

-What I mean is: Although it is true that raw food people do not have the abnormal bulk that is common in Americans.....I can attest that they achieve excellent muscle development (check out Fruitarian One's Fourm / pictures) and I high level of fitness. I am the healthiest guy I know....and have eaten just fruit for many years (just MY experiences).

[s12.invisionfree.com]

-I think you will make the right decisions...and stick with them. Thank you for your intelligent questions.

-David Mason

well...i've experienced same as nedsin....without heavy workout, just by doing yoga sessions daily + walks, + 3.5 years of realigiously lived living foods lifestyle...then i was told , by my friend naturepath that i have an infection in my stomach ( when she presses into it, during the examination, i get sharp pain in 2 places...) weak heart, & weak blood, .. sooooo, no wonder i my system was not absorbing enough nutrients from my diet....even though i was re-adjusting it constantly, trying to figure out what would work....finally i looked like a real/true concentration camp survivor, felt transparent, & my leg muscles ached when i would walk up, a bit of a hill....i didn't like it...
yesss, some of us have our bodies/systems sooooooo.....affected, by their 'previous' diets & what we went through, that THIS IS how we react to totall raw diet....
& that's whey some/few of the raw gurus DO reccomend, that for some people, going totally raw might be too much....maybe eventually....the Universe/God willing...
anyway...that's my experience
LOVE & BLESSINGS, Basia

Hi Nedsin,

I'm always saying this, but one thing you could try is RAW WHEAT GERM - the traditional raw food for body builders. It's great added to salads. Add 1/4 cup or more. Buy it prepackaged, labeled "raw", keep it refrigerated, and stay away from the raw wheat germ in the bulk bins ('cause it goes rancid).

I'm also now liking sprouted wheat. I'm not talking about the wheatGRASS (wheatgrass might be good too, but I personally don't care for it). I'm talking about wheatberries soaked overnight and then drained and sprouted one more night. They're good in nori wraps and salads. In fact I'm now preferring the sprouted wheat to the wheat germ. 2 reasons the wheatberries might be healthier: the wheatberries are a whole food, and they can be purchased organically whereas so far I haven't found any organic raw wheat germ.

Speaking of organic, are you sticking with ORGANIC fruits, veggies, seeds/nuts? If not, you could be feeling the chemicals more now that you're raw. Just a possibility. I usually eat all organic (except for the wheat germ), but just did 8 days on chemical raw, since I was away from home and there was no organic produce available. My strength seemed to take a nosedive. One day of being home and eating homegrown organic again, and I'm like new.

I'll admit I'm no bodybuilder, but I'm 55, do an hour or more of yoga in the morning, run 6 miles a day (5 days a week), plus walk with light (3 lb) weights. Most meateater women my age can't do that and don't want to.

Best wishes to ya and try not to get discouraged. You can do it. -Ally

PS to Basia: It seems your weight has been low for some time. Have you been clinically tested for amoebas? Some of your symptoms sound real amoeba-like. Just a thought. Those things can kill ya.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2006 07:11AM by Ally.

No doubt that raw food is healthy and should be a huge portion of our diets. Maybe go approx. 75% raw and add back your heated above 118* organic protein sources. I've added organic rice protein (low heat processes, so I think it's considered a raw food) to my regime and organic raw milk, which may be taboo to most here, but you have to do what's best for you. I understand your anger personally. Perhaps the approx. 75% raw may give you the best of both worlds.

I hope it works out for you and wish you much success in your modeling career.
Just like hair grows back (hopefully anyways) you can always gain more muscle again. It's not gone forever.

Nedsin,
You are saying this man is flabby?


I take it you dont have an eating disorder or would have said so. Or self-image complex (besides being a muscle model)? Ok.

Could you post a picture of you?

I have in fact met several people who are very muscluar AND raw-vegan!

I am not going to try to convince you about protein requirments, you seem to be content in your own beleifs. You may already know that our body takes the neccessary elements (all available from plants) and creates the required amino-acids it needs. its very hard to be deficient in protein, without being malnurished in general. eating meat and dairy is overkill in the protein department, as most of it is not used and strips minerals as it is wasted out.

Be that as it may, a gorilla, or an elephant can become very musclular and many times stronger pound per pound by eating mostly fruit and greens... or a bull can get all the protein needed to build all that mass and muscle from green plants... even a lion ultimately gets all it's protien from grass via the herbivore...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2006 07:24AM by innervegetable.

He's african american too, which helps, hence the nice muscle definition.

Water is the ultimate cure. So many raw foodists think that they get all the water they need from veggies and fruit however this is a fantasy. Our bodies are made up of 60% water and we need to replenish it everyday.

Ever since I started following the watercure discovered by Dr. Batmanghelidz I've never had any problems with my physique. In fact, a person on this board that I mentioned the watercure to thanked me after a few months and told me that when she went raw she saw nothing happening and as soon as a few weeks of following the watercure she started noticing that she had a figure.

[www.watercure.com]
[www.watercure2.com]

Also, I'm a big advocate of sole. This is not a fish. Go to [www.americanbluegreen.com] and discover all the benefits of sole. Also, the owner of americanbluegreen is a raw foodist.

Peace,

Marcos

Go Vegan for your life, your health, the planet and, most importantly, the animals that we share this wonderful world with!

I'm really surprised that some of you guys were so short with Nedsin...

Hi Nedsin...

I've been through the same thing for a long time...in my opinion your body is using all it's energy to clean you up and that's why your weak and tired....it's just a natural cleansing/detox phase...there's no escaping it or hiding from it ...the more stuff you throw at it or the more you overeat the longer it's gonna take to get through....

This phase does pass but the length of time depends on your past eating habits, etc.

Don't sit around waiting for your body to rebuild itself coz it ain't gonna happen...get out and get active...if you can't do weights anymore then do bodyweight exercises if you can't do that then do something lighter but get active....it's real important....

As I said it does pass but you just gotta give your body priority to do it's job of cleansing....it's the sacrifice you gotta make...if you wanna get what you want in the long term future..

I really hope you stick with it, as it is well worth it in the end.....

Hope that helped..

F1





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2006 03:53PM by The Fruitarian One.

FO... thanks for the post.. as always I find they bring more understanding and clarity

Nedsin

I looked up Bill Pearls book "Getting Stronger" You have probably heard of him. He is a vegetarian bodybuilder who has won Mr Universe. He has also never taken steroids. In the section under bodyfat he says

"It has been found that having too little bodyfat, less than 5% for men and 8% for women may cause health problems,some of which have been associated with muscular wasting and fatigue."

This sounds like your condition has your bodyfat decreased since you went raw?

Galileo

At www.rawfoodinfo.com is the story of Shannon.
He is raw and he looks like a pretty big guy to me....

www.rawfoodinfo.com
enter the site
go to pictures
before and after
Shannon


Rozemarijn

David Zane Mason, I followed the link to the Fruitatarian site, Thanks very much, but I didn't see a photo of you, and that is what I thought you were trying to show me, since you also said you were the most healthiest guy over all. Where is your photo? I'd love to compare with you.

Hello everyone, I don't have amoeba's inside my body, and I do work out 6 days a week very hard, so NO, I haven't quit going to the gym, that would be stupid of me because I would lose all my muscle? What a silly assumption? Please stick to the subject, I think some of you are projecting your own problems onto my simple question.
I do accept that there may be some toxins leaving my body, but I was never on a crummy diet. mostly organic and hardly every anything cooked or meaty. I've always been on a clean diet. The switch to no cooked food for me was easy. I came from a 70% raw diet to a complete 100% raw diet, that is ORGANIC only. I'm feeling weaker, and my strength is not as good. That is my point, and my muscles seem to be shrinking away.
For those of you who would like to see some photo's of me, I would love to post at least 3 or 4 maybe 5. But Where and How do I do that?

nedsin,

get the picture url, example: htp://www.living-foods.com/images/livingfoods.gif

and put these at the beggining and end: (without spaces)





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/2006 12:53AM by innervegetable.

I'm sorry, but I don't understnad what you are telling me about how to submit the photo's, if there is a moderator, that I can send my photo's too, maybe the moderator, can post them for me? Let me know.

Ally - thanks for the idea/suggestion, i'll look into it, ....could one get amoeba(s) in Hawaii???...that's the only tripics i've been to....??....also been to California....
what do U think?...
i'll have to research the subject a bit..
LOVE & BLSSINGS, Basia