Sman,

I did not say there were no losses.
I referred to your 2 week reference.

there is already an anti 811 site.

what do u eat,800 cal per day? Of course u meditate
not enough energy on sprout diet.

If u think clement is credible, we have nowhere to
Go with this.
Good luck.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sman,


> what do u eat,800 cal per day?
l honestly wouldn't know how many calories l consume, it's not important. l really don't why people talk about calories like it is some universal truth, it's not, it's a man made theory that has holes in it.


Of course u
> meditate
> not enough energy on sprout diet.
Not true.
Lots of energy on a sprout diet, far more than l ever got from fruits and vegetables.

With a sprout diet l can sleep between 4 - 6 hours a night, but when l meditate 2.5 - 5 hours a night on a sprout diet l can get by with 1.5 hours sleep a night. l know some long term meditators who haven't slept in a bed for years. l spent 2 weeks living down the beach during Easter with a sproutarian friend and he didn't sleep the entire two weeks l was with him. He can ride up to 50 km a day and is even higher energy than me at 63 (unlimited energy) and only eats a small handful of lentil sprouts most days. But l have introduced him to algaes, sea vegetables and green juices lately.

The wonder gets even more incredible with another friend St Alan. lf l told you about that guy you probably wouldn't believe it. He defies everything we have ever been taught. He is a 55 year old that can pass for 25 and eats only a few almonds per day and hasn't been to bed in over 12 years. He meditates in the back of a hall each night so we know he never goes to bed. He is incredible!!! True power to read all your past lives and can read all your thoughts if he choses to. He is a perfect example of what human beings of capable of if we perfect ourselves. We suspect he is a 5th level master, in other words, a fully accomplished buda.


> If u think clement is credible, we have nowhere
> to
> Go with this.
Brian doesn't know everything, but l think he has more credibility than anyone in the raw vegan movement. He has alot of science on his side. lf he was a quack he wouldn't be getting good scientists and doctors coming to HHI to find out how he is helping so many people overcome disease.

Lets just agree to disagree. l have said my bit. l am happy just to do my thing and largely leave everyone else alone to do whatever they do here. lf people are doing well on their diet, l don't want to spoil there fun. l only want to speak with people who are having problems with the raw vegan diet so l can give some good suggestions, otherwise l don't want to interfere with other people's thinking. lt's all a journey. Some will eat meat, some will eat fruit, and some will eat sprouts..so what! Let people do what they want to do...it was meant to be that way.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2012 02:17AM by The Sproutarian Man.

Clement is insular.
He has been asked to publish his studies yet does not.
I was given a reference to his highly touted johns hopkins study showing fruit causes cancer and it was not u.s. Johns hopkins, and the study did show that which he purported it to show.
he has a niche and cultivates it for income.
Truth suffers.

Yes it would be good if we all did our thing and promoted the joys of raw and avoided the infighting.

missing word last post . Study did NOT show

l don't want to get too off topic so l will post one last thing in this thread about Dr Clement.

IMO these are his top three youtube talks.

His wheatgrass talk: (if you listen to it several times and take notes it really starts to hit home)
[www.youtube.com]

His famous `Three essential raw foods' talk. Btw, when he mentions high protein he is really talking about high predigested protein (a high amino acid diet). He also talks about the problem with modern day fruit in the second half of the talk.
[www.youtube.com]

And his wonderful lecture at Exotic Superfoods at Queens NY:


And he does talk about how the worldclass Dr Hunt tests the soil grown sprouts and says they are 30 times as nutritious as the best green vegetables. l well believe it because sprouts have up to 100 times the enzyme content (even this site mentions it), several dozen times the phytonutrient content and many other things. And given that most vegetables are shop bought, the figures for sprouts would be far higher.
[www.youtube.com]

He has many other really good talks, but these are his best imo.

Anyway, l better stop getting carried away,. This is about 80-10-10.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2012 03:41PM by The Sproutarian Man.

In this book,

[www.amazon.com]

they say (pg 198-199 with references) that a high fructose diet will cause:

elevated blood triglycerides
excessive blood clotting that causes the immune system to become "sleepy"
elevated uric acid levels and gout
reduces insulin affinity for its receptor site
elevated intestinal gas, diarrhea

Fructose is more harmful than white sugar, or sucrose. The liver must metabolize fructose. The liver from rats on high fructose diet have been found to be identical to those of the livers of alcoholics-plugged with fat and markedly cirrhotic.

[en.wikipedia.org]

Large amounts of fructose cause fatty acids to be stored as fat in the tissues or leased as triglycerides in the bloodstream.

accelerated aging. Scientist have further found that rats fed fructose demonstrated significant more aging markers such as cross-linking in the collagen of their skin.

check out this link with 141 reasons why sugar is bad

[nancyappleton.com]

some that may stick out in the 801010 diet are :

1 Sugar can suppress your immune system.
2 Sugar upsets the mineral relationships in the body.
12 Sugar reduces high-density lipoproteins (HDL).
15. Sugar can increase fasting levels of glucose.
16. Sugar causes copper deficiency.
17. Sugar interferes with the body’s absorption of calcium and magnesium
21. Sugar can lead to an acidic digestive tract.
24. Sugar can cause premature aging.
26. Sugar can cause tooth decay.
36. Sugar can cause hemorrhoids.
37. Sugar can cause varicose veins.
38. Sugar can lead to periodontal disease.
39. Sugar can contribute to osteoporosis.
40. Sugar contributes to saliva acidity.
41. Sugar can cause a decrease in insulin sensitivity.
42. Sugar can lower the amount of Vitamin E in the blood.
43. Sugar can decrease the amount of growth hormones in the body.
58. Sugar can promote an elevation of low-density lipoproteins (LDL).
62. Sugar can increase the size of the liver by making the liver cells divide.
63. Sugar can increase the amount of liver fat.
64. Sugar can increase kidney size and produce pathological changes in the kidney.
65. Sugar can damage the pancreas.
74. Sugar can cause depression.
82. Sugar can cause platelet adhesiveness, which causes blood clots.
83. Sugar can cause hormonal imbalance – some hormones become underactive and others become overactive.
84. Sugar can lead to the formation of kidney stones.
85. Sugar can cause free radicals and oxidative stress.
86. Sugar can lead to biliary tract cancer.
90. Sugar increases the concentration of bile acids in stool and bacterial enzymes in the colon, which can modify bile to produce cancer-causing compounds and colon cancer.
91. Sugar increases estradiol (the most potent form of naturally occurring estrogen) in men.
96. Sugar can aggravate premenstrual syndrome (PMS).
97. Sugar can decrease emotional stability.

What does "sugar" have to do with 811?

What does chrystalline fructose fed to rats
Have to do with fruit?

1 frustose is the sugar from fruit. fructose is a sugar. It is process in the liver.

2 don't know

801010 is a new diet. NObody has studiet the long term health effects. It could be that in the long term it is the best ever, or it could be that it is the worse ever. Hope it is the fromer.

1. Not the same thing. Get back to me when u have a study of frugivorous primates eating fruit showing adverse effects. You r falling for the medical model
Of non wholistic thinking.

2 . Primates in the wild eat over 90% fruit when available. I know we are not them and the fruit is different, etc
But theres nothing new about eating raw plants low fat.

What happens is we are biased by our personal experience. 811 didnt work for me? It must be flawed.
and humans are all so "different" even though these differences are not in evidence.

tell it to this baby.

"The parents of a nine-month-old girl who died after being fed a fruit-based diet have been spared a jail sentence. "

[news.bbc.co.uk]

you want me to talk to a dead baby?

-children are supposed to be breast fed for years.

-fruit-based diet is not the cause.

-i personally do not know what caused the death.

-if you want to campaign against fruit as a result, that is your choice.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> -children are supposed to be breast fed for
> years.

Erm ... from the article:


"After Areni's birth on 8 September 1999, the family saw a paediatrician who said the baby was not developing properly, and that her mother's breastmilk was nutritionally deficient."


So the baby was in fact breast fed, and the milk of her mother-fruitarian was nutritionally deficient.

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<

pediatricians say a lot of things.
they say that children are not in a high enough growth percentile
they say eat more protein.
they say take this medicine for this "condition"

need more details.

"Later, the family went to live on a vegetarian commune in Spain, where they believed Areni's Vitamin D deficiency would be cured by sunlight. "

all they mention is vitamin D
perhaps other problems but we don't know.

to take this case and slam "fruitarian " diet, based on the known facts
(they were said to eat fruits, veggies, and nuts )
is reckless and baseless.

do you suppose this woman was "fruitarian" also?
will you be Slamming her diet similarly panchito?
[www.nytimes.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2012 04:04PM by fresh.

The tragic thing is it sounds as if it could have been prevented after they had learned that the mothers breast milk was nutritionally deficient, rather they stuck with dietary dogma and refused to believe.

There have been other similar cases that ive read in the past.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2012 04:11PM by powerlifer.

Hey Fresh, I apologize for the offensive angle. Sometimes I act like that and don't know why. Diets are very complex. They are everywhere but they are complex. I don't know much about them (new) but I read here and there. If I had woken up in a different time of the day I may have felt like defending it. They say a butterfly in Japan can create an earthquake in California. So, if you feel good on your diet, that is what's important.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> all they mention is vitamin D
> perhaps other problems but we don't know.



Well it seems that "all they mention" is malnutrition. That's a problem big enough, imo.




fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>pediatricians say a lot of things


And so everybody else, including you. Who knows, maybe there will be someone willing to take your word over that of pediatrician, and keep their baby on the fruitarian diet.

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2012 04:54PM by chat.

no worries, i just think we need to be careful with drawing connections between things - our experience/biases influence us.

chat, unless you're going to say that malnutrition only occurs in "fruitarian" babies, then it's got nothing to do with taking my word over a pediatrician, and everything to do with biases and sensationalism.

Nah, Im not going to say that malnutrition occurs only in fruitarian babies.

What the article said however, is that malnutrition occurred in this particular fruitarian baby who died. And what pediatrician said, according to the article, is that malnutrition occurred in this particular baby because of the fruitarian diet of the baby and the mother.

You said "pediatricians say a lot of things", and I said "everybody say a lot of things, including you". So its the matter whom to believe in this particular case, and (tiny secret) i sort of believe the pediatrician

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<

believe what u want. Its a typical and faulty reaction to believe "experts" and form conclusions without sufficient info.

Thanks for letting me believe what I want, very much appreciated - geez, especially coming from someone so atypical and non-faulty!

A gem, truly

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<

chat wrote,

<<<i sort of believe the pediatrician>>>

Let’s put things into perspective.

In America, Allopathic Medicine is the #1 Cause of Death killing almost 800,000 people every year. Most Childhood Dis-Eases are Parent’s Mistakes and there are NO Vaccines or Antibiotics or any other Chemical Solutions for Lifestyle Related Problems.

The sad reality is that we are a Sick Species and we live in a Sick Society that does NOT want us to be Healthy. In fact, we are so Sick that we Prey upon our on Species and now, we have the Sickest of the Sickest of us Controlling everything related to our Health. As a result, all of our so-called Experts in Medicine and Nutrition or any other Field of Health are NOT the Experts for Problems Within our Control.

Knowledge of Anatomy, Chemistry and Pharmakeia is only useful for Problems Outside of our Control and yet, these Systems have been given Monopolies over all of our Problems whether they are Within our Control or Outside of our Control.

As Dr. Herbert Shelton once said, "The greatest evil that can come into your child's life is the poison-dispensing physician. Carefully guard your child against him and all that he stands for.”

Peace and Love..........John

PS Here are a few more from Dr. Herbert Shelton…

“‘Children's diseases are really parent's mistakes,’ says Dr. Harry Clements (London), and this is very largely true. There are, of course, social and economic factors over which the poor have little or no influence, at least, not in their present unorganized state.

It may be difficult for the average reader to grasp the thought that parent's mistakes are responsible for the so-called infectious diseases of childhood. Few people have been able to disabuse their minds of the ancient notion, our heritage from our ignorant prehistoric forebears, that a so-called disease can be "caught" from someone else who has it.” -Herbert Shelton, “THE HYGIENIC CARE OF CHILDREN” - CHAPTER XXII THE ACUTE "INFECTIOUS" DISEASES OF CHILDHOOD

"Parents often feel sorry for their children when they see them deprived of certain foods, but they are wasting their sympathies. Such sympathies are tantamount to wishing for them a continuance of disease. 'When parents are intelligent enough to know their duty to their children,' says Dr. Tilden, 'they will not feel sorry for them because they are not eating in a way to make them sick.' Too many parents are ruled by their emotions and sentiments and not by knowledge and reason. Give children those foods that are good for them and do not cultivate in them an appetite for harmful foods.” -Dr. Herbert Shelton

Still believe the paediatrician. Poor little baby that died being fed fruits!

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<

chat wrote,

<<<Still believe the paediatrician.>>>

The only thing Allopathic Medicine is good for is for a Problem that is Outside of our Control and to a limited extent, for diagnosing a symptom.

The point of my previous post was to PUT THINGS IN PERSPECTIVE!!!

If you put your Trust in Allopathic Medicine you are a FOOL!!!

If you want to find out what to call your Warning Signs or to find out how someone died, these guys have the answers because they study the Anatomy and Chemistry and Pharmakeia. But otherwise, these Mis-Directed Fools are NOT qualified for about 90% of what they do to us.

And still believe the paediatrician. Poor poor little baby died being fed fruits

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<

Once again, you are very predictable. Not only are you a Dis-Honest Skeptic, but it appears that your Frontal Lobe has been damaged as you never seem to have any Empathy whatsoever. Almost everything you’ve done since you’ve been here is Not to support what we do but to get us to fight amongst ourselves or to make our Way of Life look bad and now you’re repeating the same comment to scare people away from this way of life.

Here’s a little insight for the rest of us…

The Psychopath’s Modus Operandi

One weakness Psychopaths have is that once one studies them and begins to understand them, they become predictable. While tactics vary from one to another, most Psychopaths follow a similar Strategy when Conning either an Individual or an Organization.

And still believe the paediatrician, that the baby died because of the malnutrition from the fruitarian diet. You seem to be very agitated today John Rose, is there a juice you can take that will calm down your nerves?

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<

Here’s some more insight for the rest of us…

All Psychopaths are Con Artists and they are Masters of Illusion or Masters of Mis-Direction. Notice how chat changed the focus from her behavior to mine. Once again, very predictable.

Evidently there is no such juice.... Oh well no diet is perfect I guess! Definitely not the fruitarian one, at least for babies if that little one that died is anything to go by.

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<

Hey chat,

I could not help but notice that you did NOT respond to the post below in another thread, which to me was very revealing because it’s a subject you keep avoiding and that is your MO. It’s all about Mis-Direction - it’s all an Illusion - it’s all about Magic - Black Magic. All Food is Magic - it’s either White or Black - it’s either Natural or Unnatural - it’s either Good or Bad - it’s either Right or Wrong.

[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
Re: Arugula - scientists say it's better cooked than raw??
Posted by: John Rose
Date: July 17, 2012 04:24PM

<<<raw food is just another diet it's not magic>>>

Raw Food is White Magic and Cooked Food is Black Magic!

It all has to do with the EPR Paradox.