hOW ABOUT JUST CHOPPING THEM UP AND PUTTING THEM IN THE DEHYDRATOR? THIS WOULD "COOK" THEM AND KEEP THEM RAW.

The cooked tomato is saturated with citric acid, and therefore is really a mild poison, not a food.

Mango Moses Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The cooked tomato is saturated with citric acid,
> and therefore is really a mild poison, not a food.


Tee hee...

Both are good, so i consume both raw and cooked tomatoes regulary as i get on with nightshade family foods fine and obviously as a male could benefit from high levels of lycopene in my diet.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

Mango Moses, is this sarcasm?

powerlifer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Both are good, so i consume both raw and cooked
> tomatoes regulary as i get on with nightshade
> family foods fine and obviously as a male could
> benefit from high levels of lycopene in my diet.
>
> [www.vegankingdom.co.uk]


Life is destroyed in cooked tomatoes, it does not matter how many nutrients you get. It is a waste.

Raw myth really, what is destroyed the enzymes that serve no or little purpose anyway. Several foods have higher nutrients when cooked carrot is another example.

A mixture of both raw and cooked is what i do and find works well for me. Each to their own again. Im really not bothered if the enzymes are destroyed in the portion of cooked foods i eat such as the cruciferous vegetables. Destroying the goitrogens of these green vegetables is another bonus.

The nutrient loss is over played in many cases also, many would have you believe your eating nutrient less food when cooking, check wh foods it has the nutrient levels of many foods, including cooked greens etc and the nutrient levels are still outstanding, sometimes more than raw like i say.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

Here is a common sense experiment. No high science.

Take two tomatoes, cook one and leave the other uncooked. Leave them on a table for few days. The uncooked tomato has life and will survive for days. The other may have more nutrients but they are all dead. They cannot survive and organize themselves into a coherent living unit.

This is a raw food forum. You are on the wrong forum.

Here's an experiment. Take two raw tomatoes, put one on the counter and eat the other. The one on the counter will survive for days. The one you ate? Not so much.
LOL, what a ridiculous analogy.

This is not, so far as I know, a forum for 100% raw vegan eaters exclusively. If you don't like the topic you are welcome to read and respond to another but nobody here gets to tell others what to think, what to eat, what to say or where they are allowed. Nobody here is an authority on nutrition or anything else either, what you've got is OPINION which you are in no way encouraged to shove down the throats of anyone else. Keep that in mind, eh? When "sharing" your views.

I prefer tomatoes raw but won't turn my nose up at sauce either, especially if it was made with fresh local organic tomatoes and is available to me in the winter when nothing grows. Then it's heavenly bliss. Wonderful, wonderful.

coco you are ridiculous, opinionated. Are you saying YOUR VIEWS ARE NOT "shove down the throats of anyone else"

I understand you want to protect your friends and their views but we all have the right to express our views too, the forum does not belong to you.

Are you saying the forum is not 100 percent vegan too, so we can talk about meat, fish????????????????

YOU don't get to "kick people off" the forum or insist that it "isn't for them" because they don't meet your specific criteria for "belonging" here. This bullcrud posting that gets done when opinions are expressed that don't fit with what you agree with so you make statements like "This is a raw food forum. You are on the wrong forum"... yeah, whatever dude. Use a REAL arguement to defend what you've got to say.
Making baseless statements like "may have more nutrients but they are all dead" with zero fact based scientific data to back them up, come on now. If you have something of value to say, by all means, I'm sure we are all ears. But if you're going to brow beat people with your OPINION as though you somehow have a direct line to the truth, ha ha ha, don't expect a lot of thanks or respect from those whose opinions differ from yours. It has NOTHING to do with who is "friends" here and who is not, it has EVERYTHING to do with what is said.

I think, if you even pay the SLIGHTEST attention, you will notice that when I give an opinion I am quite careful to phrase it as such, using terms like "I think", "In my experience", "In my opinion" etc. I will not make a definitive declaration of authority on a topic about which I am not an expert. YOU are not an expert in nutrition. You want to talk about your experience? Have at it. You want to bully people and toss around what you prefer to be the truth as the actual truth? Think twice. Eating a bit of cooked food is not going to kill anybody. Ease up. This dogma is not doing anybody any good at all. It is unhelpful for people to make decisions based on nonsense. Choosing what to eat and what to do, while a Very personal choice, is most helpful when based on something real. Some science, some fact, something that makes sense. Just saying "a cooked tomato is valueless because it's dead" oh come on. I challenge you to do better than that.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2012 01:35AM by coco.

Raw Practicalist,

This:

Quote

coco you are ridiculous, opinionated.

is ad hominem. We don't do that here. And as we once again patiently explain, your opinion is not fact and your experiences are not law. They are what they are and merit whatever respect polite opinion/subjective experience statements deserve.

Why is this such a difficult concept for people here lately, honest to pete?

Did you read coco comments. "LOL, what a ridiculous analogy. "
I will respond to any ridiculous comments . We do not do that here but she can???????????????/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2012 05:45AM by RawPracticalist.

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is a common sense experiment. No high
> science.
>
> Take two tomatoes, cook one and leave the other
> uncooked. Leave them on a table for few days. The
> uncooked tomato has life and will survive for
> days. The other may have more nutrients but they
> are all dead. They cannot survive and organize
> themselves into a coherent living unit.
>
> This is a raw food forum. You are on the wrong
> forum.

LOL, sorry to be a pedant but the description for this forum suggests vegan living and raw food. There are a number of non-raw topics here sorry to dissapoint you. If cooked food contained all dead nutrients we'd have bodies piling up daily from malnutrition, again there is no evidence of this. Its silly analogies such as this which is why raw food will never cotton on to the masses. Have you ever done any research to see how much a steamed or lightly boiled broccoli contains, you will be surprised ?.

Anyway ill keep on consuming these invisible lifeforce magic enzymes.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2012 08:18AM by powerlifer.

I have found in many cases that Science is a word that really means "Previously we had thought that....but today new studies have shown....".

Rising Edge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have found in many cases that Science is a word
> that really means "Previously we had thought
> that....but today new studies have shown....".

Science changes all the time and it isn't bonafied proof either, although when you have mulitple studies showing the same conclusion you have to agree that its likely whatever it is concluding.

Science and basic human physiology should be the backbone and the skeleton of everything in my opinion or it just turns into one big mess with everyone creating their own science, which is what many do here. I would rather read nutritional science over someone who says look apes ate some fruit 3000 years or my child chose the raw food over a burger this must mean that raw food is for everyone.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

how about the biased science of corporations. Companies make "scientific" studies till they find one that suits their bill. They never pubish ones that hurt them. Science is about money nowadays. And no money no science, so go figure.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2012 10:15AM by Panchito.

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> how about the biased science of corporations.
> Companies make "scientific" studies till they find
> one that suits their bill. They never pubish ones
> that hurt them. Science is about money nowadays.
> And no money no science, so go figure.

There is a portion of science used and abused by corporations looking to make money i don't doubt that at all. Studies are just a tool, they can be used for the better or for the worse. Companies such as the big pharma ones do look to exploit the public's intelligence by purposely manipulating studies to achieve an outcome that favours them.

Its up to people to look who created the study, the criteria and the conclusion. Its not an easy skill to interpret studies and some studies are still over my head after all this time researching them.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2012 10:20AM by powerlifer.

I guess we have to work with the best available science and our own personal experiences and pray that they don't disagree

RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did you read coco comments. "LOL, what a
> ridiculous analogy. "
> I will respond to any ridiculous comments . We do
> not do that here but she can???????????????/


I see another lesson in communication is in order here.

There is a difference, A BIG ONE, in addressing a topic rather than a person. Saying that an analogy is ridiculous is not, NOT, the same as calling a person names. Do you not comprehend this? I believe that it's quite clear if you stop and think for a moment, stop to consider what you are about to say, what you have said, and what has been said in return. One of those statements is purposefully personal, ie about the actual person, the other is impersonal addressing only the topic, the comment, the discussion.
Conversely, statements like "In my opinion cooked tomato is more difficult to digest than raw tomato" are personal as they should be while a statement like "Cooked tomato is poison" is a wide sweeping proclamation that directs others to take what is a quite personal idea and absorb it as their own without any basis in fact.
There are times when being personal is appropriate (relaying your personal experience) and times when being personal is NOT appropriate (calling out comments and ideas with which you don't agree). Please learn the difference.

No cooked tomato is poison because i put one outside and the ants all went for the mango.

I jest lol, but yeah maybe RP is right that im on the wrong forum, i know there are others who share a desire here for nutritional science but there are maybe forums with a dedicated focus to that.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

all of the below is imo

one does not need to eat all raw to be acceptable.
however, some, like powerlifer herein, actively promote the superiority of cooked in many instances....

are you a raw foodist or not?
doesn't sound like it to me.
and there's nothing wrong with that.

but eating a lot of raw food does not make one a raw foodist

it is a philosophy.

the philosophy generally supposes that
presuming adequate raw food is available,

-eating all raw is ideal
-cooked is not more beneficial than raw
and food is food, not medicine

picking something like a carrot, or a potato, or broccoli and saying that certain nutrients are more available than when raw is beside the point which is why are you eating something that is allegedly better cooked? is that a flaw in RAw, or a flaw in your food selection?

of course it also ignores the damages that occur, and the selective attention to one nutrient out of thousands.

*Promoting cooked over raw is not indicative of a raw food philosophy
*Eating cooked can be consistent with a raw food philosophy.

Nature must have made a mistake in not providing food in the cooked state.
That's what we are expected to believe?

of course, if you want to eat cooked, or can't find enough raw, or whatever, then go for it, but to then rationalize the behavior as if raw is flawed in general is not consistent with the philosophy.

when i have eaten non vegan or cooked, i don't suddenly say, raw is flawed!
i say, i have done it for whatever reason, and move on.

if you find yourself coming up with all kinds of reasons why you can't be or don't want to be raw, then maybe you're not really believing in the concept of being raw foodist .


please don't throw the b12 thing at me, it's not exclusive to vegan or raw.

As i have stated numerous times i am not all raw and never will be again, i only use the term high raw here as its easier to relate to others and well i do eat a high amount of raw food, i don't call myself a raw foodist and never have.

As i have stated 2 posts above this is not an 100% raw forum, it is a forum for discussing vegan living and raw foods if you care to read the description fresh.

I am vegan and have a passion for living and raw foods. Whether i base my diet 100% around raw food is irrelevant, dogmatic and pedantic in my opinion.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2012 01:10PM by powerlifer.

Tomato is a fruit, why cook it? What is gained?

madinah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tomato is a fruit, why cook it? What is gained?

Higher levels of carotenes and the phytonutrient lycopene. This could be beneficial for someone with prostate and other cancers which respond to lycopene. A mixture of both is a good idea i.e raw and cooked in my opinion.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

Should not we be more concerned about the quality of the nutrients than the quantity. It is like saying that cheap gas is better because I can buy more of it. The car will run less efficiently. There ought to be a study on the symbiotic relationship of the nutrients in their raw form and in their cooked form.
In cooking a tomato, you are removing the water and many other important relationships.

Well if its about the quality then in this case the cooked would be preferred as lycopene and beta-carotene are main characteristics of tomatoes health benefits.

I don't see why we can't consume both, if im eating a salad ill eat my tomatoes raw, if im making a sauce up ill maybe heat them lightly.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2012 03:01PM by powerlifer.

Such simple minded, short term thinking.........
What we see is that every 10 years we realize how silly we are about what we think we know. Like the "we gotta eat cooked tomatoes because of the lycopene". These are generalizations made by people who don't study the raw paradigm yet. If qa person is really that worried about a single nutrient, like lycopene, eat grapefruit and watermelon. They are oozing with it. Such a useless argument to say we should eat 1 cooked food because of a single nutrient which we can find in other, easy to find sources. logically I'd say it is wise to stay away from cooked food as it promotes the body composting itself. Our body reacts to cooked food as a foreign invader, which in no way sounds like the right path to me. Raw food in so many ways is a new frontier, and we aren't going to learn from it as much if we just dabble in it still eating cooked foods. If we want to be scientific about it and be a part of the deepest experiment possible, we would prove the long term effects of a 100% diet which does not promote internal composting. So in time we will have people, like myself who can be living proof as to what the body can achieve without the added weight of having to create digestive enzymes using higher functioning enzymes from more important functions in the body. yes, we can survive on cooked foods. But the people I've seen that still accept cooked food into their diet look as though they still age normally. Showing degenerative effects like balding, grey hair, bone degeneration. Just the Juiceman, he lived to be pretty darn old, but he was still grey and old looking. People like Gabriel Cousens, and other 100% raw people who have detoxed and removed the aging factor, do not look so old. The question is which group do you want to be in? I am choosing to be a part of the experiment, choosing to accept that we have no clue about how BIG the raw magic really is.....so I embrace a diet where I don't stress my body by making it create anymore enzymes than I need to. Plus I take in massive amounts of life force energy. Stuff we barely have any science info for yet. A cooked tomato has no place in my life. I eat watermelon and grapefruit! and I win on both counts !

The Raw Lion 440 pounds to 225 pounds!

Any proof that the body views cooked food as a "foreign invader" ?.

Not simple minded or short term, all i said was that the body could benefit from both cooked and raw tomatoes. No one said you NEEDED lycopene just that some could benefit from extra in the diet, no one said it was the only source of lycopene either.

I think its quite orthorexic to think that a cooked tomato could be damaging to our health ?.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2012 04:18PM by powerlifer.

I appreciate the science based information that you post PowerLifer, very much so. I can choose what I do with it. If that means I cook some foods to increase the levels of specific nutrients taken in, so be it. If it means that I simply focus on the specific food or herb that I now know to be high in elements that address certain health issues I'm dealing with, that is also my choice. The fact that you so freely offer your research here as impartial information is incredibly valuable. I don't feel that you are in any way pressuring people to cook their tomatoes, broccoli or carrots, though you may occasionally have them that way yourself or you may advocate having them that way as a means of increasing levels of whatever they contain.
Valid information is never going to hurt me, it will always add to my knowledge base and my ability to make a wise, informed decision about my actions. Likewise, I appreciate hearing about other's reactions and experiences on their journey. It's interesting and informative. So long as their experiences are not presented as FACT for ALL. Easy to differentiate if appropriate language is used. And why not be clear in our communication with each other? Isn't that of benefit to all? No one needs to be dictated to, no more than anyone is at risk by hearing that someone does something differently than they do. Cooked food talk is not forbidden here, not being 100% raw is not forbidden here, not being 100% vegan is not forbidden here. Only promoting others to follow non-vegan habits is off limits. Those are easy rules to follow.

RAWLION, have you met Dr Cousins? I have. He looks great for his age but he's got wrinkles etc and that look of an aging body. My mum is 63 and nobody can beleive it. She's incredibly healthy by average standards, she eats well, exercises etc, but she's not raw vegan, she's not even vegetarian. She takes zero medication and has zero health issues, she looks great and is very active and energetic but she's got grey hair (not a lot), wrinkles, and the look of an aging body too.
My point is, this is a measure of nothing.

One more note: watermelon is available for a short period of time yearly and doesn't store well. Citrus fruit doesn't grow anywhere near where I live and has to fly from very far away to get to me, lots of fuel burned for that. I live 45 minutes from the tomato capitol of Canada, they dehydrate and can very well and are an incredible source of nutrients during our long, cold winter. It may be more ideal to eat them raw but they are a very close second cooked when raw is not available. These are choices, carefully wieghed, no justification needed beyond what is balanced and possible. No dogma required.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2012 04:27PM by coco.