I love this thread. The why not for onions is a mystery to me. Garlic may be too strong even for non spiritual quests.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2011 05:08PM by madinah.

HeavenHands Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I don't think that totally
> abstaining from garlic or onion has any effect on
> spirituality unless a person is hyper-sensitive to
> those foods or over-indulges.

Personally how i feel also HH, i can't see any reason why onions, garlic, ginger or any other strong tasting food would have a detrimental effect on spirituality.

I still wonder if raw food long term de-sensitizes people to an un-natural state. I see people saying ginger stimulates them too much, ginger or any of these spices/vegetables are not CNS stimulants so if they do stimulate you to the un-natural degree as some state i would say that isn't healthy state for the body to be in, reacting so adversely to certain foods. I know raw foodists now who can't even eat a little cooked quiona without being bed ridden for weeks, this again to me isn't normal.

I remember talking with a raw foodist a while back who said they could no longer leave the house as noise, pollution in the air, traffic etc stimulated them too much. This to me isn't normal.

It is probably purely pyschological but still not what id argue to be a sound state of spirituality.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2011 05:21PM by powerlifer.

powerlifer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ........ i can't see any reason why onions, garlic, ginger or any other strong tasting food would have a detrimental effect on spirituality.
Why don't we find out? Speculation doesn't get it. Only with the Purest Diet will we know for sure. We must become a Purist. The New Year is right around the corner. What better place to start?......WY

WheatgrassYogi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> powerlifer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ........ i can't see any reason why onions,
> garlic, ginger or any other strong tasting food
> would have a detrimental effect on spirituality.
> Why don't we find out? Speculation doesn't get it.
> Only with the Purest Diet will we know for sure.
> We must become a Purist. The New Year is right
> around the corner. What better place to
> start?......WY

I have done with and without in the past with no real visible difference, these days i include the above liberally, from research i see no reason not too, other than the cruciferous vegetables such as broccoli, onions and garlics are some of the most studied anti-cancer vegetables we have access too.

I don't see why eliminating these health promoting foods would promote purity and spirituality.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2011 05:52PM by powerlifer.

No, you haven't struck a nerve, unless you consider me sort of disagreeing with you to = striking a nerve. What I mean is that I believe that what we take in with our eyes and ears can have a more detrimental effect on our spirituality than what we consume as food, at least that's the case for me. If I go on to a raw forum, I'd much rather read what a kind and loving person has to say about eating garlicy raw meatballs over the angry words of those who try to shame others into "proper" diet by calling them "fat" (for example). That to me is emotional aggression and overt exposure to it is poison to those seeking a higher consciousness. It can not be avoided, it's part of life, but to voluntarily expose oneself to it over and over again is not good. There are NO raw foodists where I live. It sucks for me when the atmosphere in raw forums is about as healthy as the emotional atmosphere in a Fox News broadcast. In case you haven't noticed, I'm quite upset about the presence of bullies in this little sub-culture we've got going here. I think that you're cool WY. Keep reading...

When I was referring to the "standard bearers" of the "new aggression" and their web-site, I was referring to people who I prefer not to mention. Don't want to give them too much direct publicity while outing them for the fakes that they are. Ya know, we recently had a thread in this forum where we learned that discussions of garlic are not permitted in certain places. I find it interesting that by far the two most hateful, anti-spiritual raw foodists that I've come across are also staunchly anti-garlic. That kinda blows up your theory from my perspective, doncha think?

I'm a raw foodist who does not eat garlic as a regular part of his diet. I'm very sensitive to its smell. I will indulge on special occasions. If one of my lovers has recently eaten garlic (especially processed garlic) and I have not, well, at least we can spend the evening talking (from the other side of the room).

But what's a pure diet? If I go to a big corporate grocery store and eat scads of corporate farmed sugary hybrid fruits, is that pure? One thing that I feel is relevant to the fruitarian discussion is whether or not the mass farming of fruits by huge corporations like Dole is good for the environment. I imagine that there are a few issues as far as Mother Earth is concerned. Anyone with knowledge please chime in.

WheatgrassYogi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> powerlifer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ........ i can't see any reason why onions,
> garlic, ginger or any other strong tasting food
> would have a detrimental effect on spirituality.
> Why don't we find out? Speculation doesn't get it.
> Only with the Purest Diet will we know for sure.
> We must become a Purist. The New Year is right
> around the corner. What better place to
> start?......WY

HeavenHands

How do you figure out who is spiritual or not on this forum?

I guess "purity" is subjective, is anyone really ever pure ?. To me living cleanly is about avoiding known toxins such as alcohol and cigarettes etc.

There are people who live on certain diets for years and still feel ill and blame it on "detox" and such. To me this isn't right living healthy shouldn't mean that a year down the line following whatever diet you are losing your hair, period and so on. Then you get the people who try to make out that losing your period is healthy and pure. You can get into a bad head space in my opinion where you can become very orthorexic.

Everything becomes a toxin, water is toxic in large amounts, we need context when it comes to these things. If consuming a little cinnamon or garlic makes me impure then i guess i am impure lol.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2011 06:17PM by powerlifer.

Easy question. Those who try to hurt others, whether it's through name-calling or the promotion of their ideal body diet, etc., are not on a spiritual path that interests me. When they do it in the name of veganism, I shudder at the cluelessness.



RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HeavenHands
>
> How do you figure out who is spiritual or not on
> this forum?

I agree.

powerlifer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I guess "purity" is subjective, is anyone really
> ever pure ?. To me living cleanly is about
> avoiding known toxins such as alcohol and
> cigarettes etc.
>
> There are people who live on certain diets for
> years and still feel ill and blame it on "detox"
> and such. To me this isn't right living healthy
> shouldn't mean that a year down the line following
> whatever diet you are losing your hair, period and
> so on. Then you get the people who try to make out
> that losing your period is healthy and pure. You
> can get into a bad head space in my opinion where
> you can become very orthorexic.
>
> Everything becomes a toxin, water is toxic in
> large amounts, we need context when it comes to
> these things. If consuming a little cinnamon or
> garlic makes me impure then i guess i am impure
> lol.
>
> [www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

HeavenHands
Can you name few that are HURTING and not on the spiritual path according to your definition?

There is a difference with not aggreeing with the facts and being hurt, mostly people on the forum are just stating their experiences with raw food with no personal attach on anyone. We may disagree but it is not personal. It makes the forum dynamic



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2011 07:22PM by madinah.

powerlifer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
...I still wonder if raw food long term de-sensitizes
> people to an un-natural state...
>
> I remember talking with a raw foodist a while back
> who said they could no longer leave the house as
> noise, pollution in the air, traffic etc
> stimulated them too much. This to me isn't
> normal...

This was me. I couldn't stand to be in the city or anywhere with cars, the noise, the smell. A person who had washed their hair or clothing with a fragranced soap standing close to me would make me nauseous and headachey, perfume was unbearable. Eating things not on my list resulted in distinct unpleasantness. I was SO sensitive to everything, it was too much.
I don't have an interest in living a life that pure again unless it's in an equally pristine environment and that doesn't seem to exist on this planet. So, a high percentage of raw, a very healthy lifestyle, it's enough. No need to strive towards perfection, that's not realistic or healthy IMHO.

It wasn't you who i was meaning coco, but i do remember you saying this when i wrote this the last time. Which led me to believe that it wasn't a one off thing especially with how sensitive some become with just eating a little ginger etc. One should not be buzzing or "high" as they put it from garlic, there is nothing stimulative or drug like in garlic, onions or most spices/herbs to do this.

With the exception of being allergic, when you come in contact with an allergen the adrenal glands release epinephrine i.e adrenaline which constricts the blood vessels thus increasing blood pressure, increases heart rate and as such can increase energy. In which case obviously avoid the allergen. But this brings me back does a raw food diet long term desensitize us.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2011 07:24PM by powerlifer.

I was seriously hurting, it sucked. And mentally too, very "high" all the time, not grounded. I felt too floaty, like truly morphing into a hippy dippy flake. I didn't like it, I am a very practical, grounded, determined, passionate person. I never want to feel wishy washy again, ugh.

ETA I was very grounded and "resilient" before going raw though I don't think going raw cause me to become less healthy, just more sensitive. That fits though, the growing awareness of body and environment, increased sensitivity and perception of environment etc.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2011 07:41PM by coco.

People are too sensitive are not healthy to begin with. Healthy means resilient.

[How can I stop coming here every day when such fascinating threads as this are developing?! ]

You Cant Tam

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

madinah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> People are too sensitive are not healthy to begin
> with. Healthy means resilient.

This doesn't really explain why those on long term raw diets become overly sensitive to pretty much anything other than what they consider healthy which usually consists of just fruits and greens. Even other vegetables now become toxins and drugs.

Personally i think much of it is pyschological, there was a time when i would consider myself orthorexic largely created by my food allergies and health problems. I would instantly know there was gluten in food and would tell people i was reacting to it, then i would be later told there was no gluten in what i was eating. Suddenly to be better in seconds. The mind is super powerful.

If it isn't pyschological then i worry that many raw foodists may be weakening their adrenal glands so that anything relatively foreign to them becomes an allergen.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2011 08:20PM by powerlifer.

If you actually took the time to read what I say you would understand that I agree with you about disagreement. Civil disagreement is great. When it enters into the realm of name calling, harassing, and attempting to humiliate people on any health forum, I draw a line. I disagree with you that health = resiliency to the point where we're immune to emotional distress. Feeling a wide range of emotions is a part of being. You have no business deciding for others when they're being too sensitive or not. You don't know what's going on in their life beyond the internet. For various reasons we all have our own triggers. In my world, a healthy person recognizes this and treats people accordingly. I always assume that people are having a hard enough time trying to survive. They certainly don't need me coming along and being viciously "honest" (what a joke) with them.

A plea for sensitive and civil discourse is unhealthy? I don't think so. What's unhealthy is total immersion in the self at the expense of others.



madinah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HeavenHands
> Can you name few that are HURTING and not on the
> spiritual path according to your definition?
>
> There is a difference with not aggreeing with the
> facts and being hurt, mostly people on the forum
> are just stating their experiences with raw food
> with no personal attach on anyone. We may disagree
> but it is not personal. It makes the forum dynamic

Madinah I cant agree with you on that point.

To me being sensitive tells me that my body is working as intended

Sensitivity serves a purpose , its an early warning system telling me that something is not right

I would be really concerned when I stop being sensitive to some things .. that would tell me that my body has become complacent and has no desire to fight back.

That is my personal take on it anyways

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

HeavenHands
The problem I see in this forum is that some get very offended even when common sense facts are presented to them. We cannot stop pointing out facts, observed facts, and common sense truths because it may hurt Joe The Plumber.

Some will say eating a non organic banana get them sick!!!, they are too sensitive because too healthy.
Maybe there is nothing wrong with the food, but the mindset. We assume we are pure and everything around us is corrupted, non organic.

But you were well alive for years before you became raw. Why should raw make you less resilient?????

I do not get it. Maybe I am not spiritual, but I do not get it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2011 08:34PM by madinah.

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."

Albert Einstein

madinah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>We cannot stop pointing out
> facts, observed facts, and common sense truths


If what is pointed out is indeed a FACT. Quite often however it is only personal experience presented as fact and that's not fact at all. There is a difference, a distinct difference, and there is a way to verbalize opinion as what it is instead of cloaking it in validity by calling it "observed fact". What one sees once or even several times is not the only way that thing can play out.

There is just no other way to know but thru personal experience. Knowledge cannot be communicated it has to be lived, experienced.

All the readings cannot do it, the "ahah moment" of understanding comes thru personal experience. We use the experience along with our scientific knowledge to separate truths from fantasy at that moment in our lives. And the scale keep moving with new experiences and new truths. The mystery alone cannot do it.
When the little ones are sick at home you apply the experience and the knowledge you have gained not the mystery.

One person's A-HA moment is not everyone's A-HA moment, one person's truth doesn't apply to everyone else and thinking it does is arrogant folly. That deserves to be recognized. I would never tell someone that garlic is absolutely going to cure their child of illness just because it has worked for mine, I can only make my own suggestions in language that conveys that it's opinion or my own experience. Going about saying "Garlic IS the cure for illness and that's fact because I've observed it myself" is ridiculously childish. There is room to make allowances for other experiences, mine is not the end all be all for everyone.


As for the following, I've never heard anything so ridiculous. You can't learn anything from reading or hearing about it? Really?

madinah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is just no other way to know but thru
> personal experience. Knowledge cannot be
> communicated it has to be lived, experienced.
>

The problem with personal experiences arises when someone translates their own personal experience into fact, like Doug Graham. The fact he is able to stretch his stomach and eat 30 persimmons followed by a dozen tomatoes and then do 100 pushups and feel great is where the line crosses over from personal experience to '' fact''.

This is what we are trying to alert people to so they don't make the same mistakes that a lot of us have made - believing blindly what others have said. You wouldn't let the little ones at home touch a hot stove would you, or would you rather they learn by experience and burn themselves badly so they don't do it again?

Well this is a bit off topic ~ BJ as a parent I'd of course never want my child to burn him or herself HOWEVER after warning many times I wouldn't stop them from reaching for something that was hot enough to hurt without doing damage. If the warning from mama isn't enough to curb the behavior a certain level of personal experience may be warranted.
I've always been able to take in the experiences of others without having to learn everything first hand myself. I'm thankful for that, it's spared me a lot of grief in life. There are enough things I am motivated to try for myself, the reviews of those I trust are a good measure for the rest.

Interesting thread! I don't have the time to make any brilliant philisophical thoughts right now.

I will say this though, I am of the opinion, that raw garlic and onions are too strong for someone with a fairly clean digestive tract. They aren't CNS stimulants, but the strong compounds can definately cause a little irritation of the GI tissues.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/2011 12:53AM by WorkoutMan.

How strange. I was just talking about garlic and onions to my partner today. I mentioned actually feeling the separation of the hemispheres in the brain, the last time I had raw garlic. The toxins are supposed to somehow interupt the effective communication between the two hemispheres.

Coco, I wasn't addressing my comments at you. i actually agree with you . My comments were for Madinah.