Hey, we're all having a convo together . Your comment applied to my mothering experience/experiment so I thought I'd respond. I'm remembering too a time when backs were turned for only a moment and the curious young son touched a very hot bbq. Never saw such a big blister in my life! While that wasn't intentional on my part he did learn the meaning of the word "hot" and gained a full understanding of "don't touch" that day as well!

I've got a scratchy throat today, I'm going to ingest some raw garlic right now in fact. I have found it helpful for curing colds here and there .

coco Wrote:

> As for the following, I've never heard anything so
> ridiculous. You can't learn anything from reading
> or hearing about it? Really?
>
> madinah Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > There is just no other way to know but thru
> > personal experience. Knowledge cannot be
> > communicated it has to be lived, experienced.
> >

coco
Among the ladies in this forum you are the only that is very rude yet the only one that get so offended when one disagree with you.

You said the statement that "knowledge cannot be communicated..." is so ridiculous, really ???

This what Einstein himself said :
"Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school."

Everything we read, hear, learn only become truths thru personal experience, personal experience make the learning become true knowledge or intelligence. No amount of explaning, reading can make a person who has lived all his life in tropical lands understand who snow is and how it feels.

It is ok to be rude but do not get offended when one disagree with you. Knowledge goes from the realm of the intellect into our being thru experience, the A-AH moment, there is no other way, that is why the gurus, our friends, our parents cannot do all for us, they can only help us on the way, we have to climb ourselves, it is what life is, what freedom that comes with life is.

The Kingdom of knowledge is like a treasure HIDDEN in the field, a man finds it and COVERS IT AGAIN and goes and sell all he has to buy the land. There is a lot of wisdom in this passage without being dogmatic and religious.

Knowledge, wisdom has to be EXPERIENCED. That is why suffering is the great teacher for all of us because when everything else failed, it is the only way nature has to make us change, suffering forces the experience on us. In the sufferings we have not choice but experience and change. The financial crisis the world is facing is a great learning experience to bring changes.

Can't we just say that it's a tie for "best path" among different approaches within a certain healthy eating spectrum? As long as they're not biting my head off or kicking me in the shins, I can come across a fruitarian or high-fruiter and see nothing but a kindred spirit on the fast-track to a higher consciousness. Why argue? Have dialogue. Understand that good dialogue requires respect and the ability to hear that not everyone is just like you. Talk about the things/goals that you have in common and how you can work together to see them through. If you're high-profile, remember that when you make an enemy of someone on behalf of raw (please don't), that in at least a small way you make the entire raw community look like a bunch of jerks. Watching people flinch as if I'm about to verbally sucker-punch them when they hear that I'm vegan is getting old. Give us ground troops some support. Try to raise the profile of the average vegan above that of the cantankerous, dogmatic bore. Provide pre-emptive charm. Be an asset, not a liability. Is that so much to ask?

Good to see there are some Aussies online so we can have some daytime activity. I'm in Sydney.

madinah “The ability to quote is a serviceable substitute for wit.” William Somerset Maugham
blah blah blah.
And don't call me a lady, if you please. pft.

coco, you rock! And are never what I'd call rude

madinah,

It is weird how we talk past one another here, lately. Most people would not disagree that to be truly understood a lifestyle must be lived through, but inarguably many things and concepts may be understood intuitively, or merely intellectually. I know how a tornado works without becoming one.

HeavenHands,

Quote

Watching people flinch as if I'm about to verbally sucker-punch them when they hear that I'm vegan is getting old.

Getting old? I've given it a consecrated burial already!

We can't do anything about how "gurus" comport themselves out in the world, we can only be mindful of presenting the best example of raw veganism in our own way of being. I have found that simply by living my veg life, confidently but without making it a big deal, I have influenced all kinds of people around me to take stock of their own eating habits and general lifestyles, and to make positive changes.

I've had a shift in consciousness and therefore perspective recently. I hear what you're saying, but it's not where I'm at. How's about you let me do my thing and rest easy in the knowledge that I'm not hurting anyone? For someone who's so focused on their world, you seem awfully nosy, and narrow-minded, when it comes to mine. One more thing: I'd say that if a "guru" doesn't listen to what people are saying, they're not a guru at all. I've managed to have an affect on the way that many people go about their business, but those people are sincere in what they do.

Tamukha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> coco, you rock! And are never what I'd call rude
>
>
> madinah,
>
> It is weird how we talk past one another here,
> lately. Most people would not disagree that to be
> truly understood a lifestyle must be lived
> through, but inarguably many things and concepts
> may be understood intuitively, or merely
> intellectually. I know how a tornado works
> without becoming one.
>
> HeavenHands,
>
> Watching people flinch as if I'm about to verbally
> sucker-punch them when they hear that I'm vegan is
> getting old.
>
> Getting old? I've given it a consecrated burial
> already!
>
> We can't do anything about how "gurus" comport
> themselves out in the world, we can only be
> mindful of presenting the best example of raw
> veganism in our own way of being. I have found
> that simply by living my veg life, confidently but
> without making it a big deal, I have influenced
> all kinds of people around me to take stock of
> their own eating habits and general lifestyles,
> and to make positive changes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/2011 05:08PM by HeavenHands.

Tamukha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> coco, you rock! And are never what I'd call rude
>
>
> madinah,
>
> It is weird how we talk past one another here,
> lately. Most people would not disagree that to be
> truly understood a lifestyle must be lived
> through, but inarguably many things and concepts
> may be understood intuitively, or merely
> intellectually. I know how a tornado works
> without becoming one.
>

It seems more like personA is my friend so whatever she says is right. That is ok.
Knowledge has to be experienced, it has to be internalized to become wisdom, you have to bite into the apple to find out what you did not know, that your were naked. A tornado does not make sense to person who does not know what a strong wind is. If that is hard to understand it is ok.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/2011 06:27PM by madinah.

madinah,

First, I have known coco a while and know her to be a fair person. And yes, I am school-playground loyal, which is a good thing

Second, not hard to understand that you take a more subjective approach to acquiring knowledge, and that's OK. Note: I am conceding that your approach has its uses.

Lastly, I really think there's no inherent diagreement here, and if there is, it needn't be acrimonious.

Its hard to beat experience as a teacher. In coco's example, before her son burned his hand, he had a rule to remember "don't touch hot things". But after he got burned, he didn't have to remember the rule, as his whole body now knew what to expect.

The things we learn outside of experience are easy to forget. Our experiences don't fade away as easily.

In order to fully understand something, you have to explore it YOURSELF. So you are deeming something "garbage" because you read blurbs on AMAZON???! I read reviews, too, but I have found that some people are just put off by anything supernatural. I have Yogananda's book plus his mail-order course and he does NOT advocate magic tricks. He was just reporting on his visits to these amazing yogis. It's like a spiritual road trip. Sheesh...




RawPracticalist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have not read Paramhansa Yogananda but if the
> comments on Amazon are true it is not worth
> reading, I will consider it garbage. I have been
> following the path of initiation for more than 30
> years, the true initiates do not say these things,
> they just dont.
>
> The book is heavy on supernatural phenomenon that
> seem to happen as often as the trains come
> in...and nobody is very much surprised. Swamis and
> Gurus appear and disappear out of thin air, people
> come back from the dead, and one guy even splits
> himself and two and teleports himself wherever he
> wants. I'm really surprised that so many people
> buy into this kind of thing. It's a magic show
> Paramhansa Yogananda is selling, not true
> spirituality.
>
> The message I gleaned from all of this is that if
> you are destined to become a saint, you will be
> capable of supernatural feats. If not, you can
> learn (but it will be harder). How does this help
> mankind in general? Parlor tricks encourage the
> wrong message of a good, spiritual practice:
> compassion for others, and right living for the
> self.
>

Prana Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Its hard to beat experience as a teacher. In
> coco's example, before her son burned his hand, he
> had a rule to remember "don't touch hot things".
> But after he got burned, he didn't have to
> remember the rule, as his whole body now knew what
> to expect.
>
> The things we learn outside of experience are easy
> to forget. Our experiences don't fade away as
> easily.


He was only a toddler at the time. I should hope an adult or even an older child wouldn't need to experience everything first hand to have an inkling. Experience is a great teacher, of course, but thankfully not the only one.

banana who Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In order to fully understand something, you have
> to explore it YOURSELF. So you are deeming
> something "garbage" because you read blurbs on
> AMAZON???! I read reviews, too, but I have found
> that some people are just put off by anything
> supernatural. I have Yogananda's book plus his
> mail-order course and he does NOT advocate magic
> tricks. He was just reporting on his visits to
> these amazing yogis. It's like a spiritual road
> trip. Sheesh...
>
>
>
>
> RawPracticalist Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I have not read Paramhansa Yogananda but if the
> > comments on Amazon are true it is not worth
> > reading, I will consider it garbage. I have
> been
> > following the path of initiation for more than
> 30
> > years, the true initiates do not say these
> things,
> > they just dont.
> >

I agree with you 100 percent. I have not read it and should not make judgment. I am already from another school and I am not ready to read some other item a bit questionable.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/2011 12:05AM by RawPracticalist.

Not eat garlic and onions??? If you want to protect yourself from cancer, allium family nutrients including onions and garlic are essential. [nutritionfacts.org]. Please wait until the end of the video. The punch comes in the last 2 minutes or so. The original study is here. Allium vegetables including garlic and onions are among the most potent anti cancer vegetables out there. Can you get a good outcome without them assuming you are doing everything else right? Probably. Should we discourage other people from eating them?? Based on what we know and what we've seen, absolutely not! Are there case studies and adverse health outcomes from people eating garlic and onions while otherwise eating a healthy diet?

I've been eating raw garlic and onions and cooked onions and other allium family members, scallions, leeks, shallots, chives for some time now. Joel Fuhrman has put them front and center in "Super Immunity". Exclude garlic and onions or allium, and cruciferous (as many do for a perceived risk for thyroid)... ) the risk of failure to include may be much much greater.

Paul



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/2011 05:00PM by pborst.

I do not eat garlic but I do put some onions in my smoothies sometimes. Have not seen any difference in my spirituality or lack of it. It is hard to notice any difference when you have nothing to start with.
I did not know there was a theory on food and spirituality. [www.krishna.com]
I thought what we needed most for that purpose was eating living and cleansing foods to keep the body lighter, free of disease and let the mind free to do the work.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2011 12:47PM by RawPracticalist.

Rawpracticalist,
Thank you for the link on Onions and Krishna. The article touched on foods that can be offered to Krishna. I had heard of this practice of placing foods before images of a diety. I find that fascinating. The belief is that if you eat food that remains after an offering to a god, one is spared karma.

I speculated that this habit might allow cooked food to cool down. I didn't know that it also removed items that are not accepted by the god. I also wondered if eating raw makes this practice unnecessary. Its a belief, but I don't know the foundation behind it. If one follows another religion, or doesn't have a religion I guess it doesn't apply. But I do find it interesting.

We are all on a personal journey, and rarely are two people at the same point. And even then, there are still differences. In all my 58yrs of life, I have met only one person who I would consider to be very close to my own point in time. Yet, our backgrounds were completely different, and even of opposite gender. We would marvel at our seemingly 'soul mate' connection when our past life was so distinct. Therefore, how can anyone say that they are at a 'higher' level than another, or are further along on the journey than another?

And what journey is that!!! Actually, I tend not to believe that there is a hierarchy of levels where we all must travel along to eventually attain the highest level. Perhaps, just perhaps, what we are doing right now, is our purpose, or it maybe a stepping stone to another. Such is the beauty and diversity of life, where we, as people have the ability to choose our path.....

In the sense that we become what we eat foods may affect our spirituality but not in a magical way.

Yes, I like that Madinah. I do not believe in magic or miracles, as my rational side tends to see cause and effect in everything. There is a method, and just because we don't know the method, it seems magical to us...

I guess the whole point is that there is no one "truth" we all have our ways and what works for one may not work for another.

Fruit, vegetables, nuts, seeds, seaweeds and so on work for me and that includes onions and garlic, as does other health promoting spices and herbs. I do not see any logical reason to view any of the above as toxins just because we can't make mono meals out of it. That seems a poor excuse for eliminating these potent anti-cancer substances.

There is no bonafied way not to get cancer so i will try to liberally include all of the above, especially those who are heavily studies for their anti-cancer properties such as broccoli/cruciferous vegetables, onions/garlic and the spices/herbs.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

madinah,

Quote

In the sense that we become what we eat foods may affect our spirituality . . .

This is why I worry more now than I ever did before about all the junk food meat eaters around us. What will become of them? What will become of us if they continue to proliferate? Don't mean to be a downer, everyone, just musing . . .

Tamukha,
I think a number of people have mused on that. It seems like culturally and spiritually we will decline. I don't know if I am just older, but it seems like the earth isn't what it used to be. Also I got the sense that people were much more empowered many years ago. Perhaps that was due to a number of factors, but I really think the earth wasn't as polluted and food quality was better. I think there was a different mind set and approach to everything as well.

Anything wasn't as polluted as it is, we have to deal with it as best we can in the current age we are in. There were only a few autoimmune diseases back years ago now there are mulitple, we have to do our best to repent that, which is all the more reason to utilize as many methods as possible.

Fruits, greens/vegetables, herbs, spices, seaweeds and so on. All of these help.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

Powerlifter,
I was commenting on junk food eating. I generally don't think of it as being a method for healing? The general thread has changed to talking about onions and garlic, but I am still not sure what to make of onions and garlic overall. I personally don't care for them,but if someone gets a benefit from them, or thinks they get a benefit from them I can't stop them from eating it.

Mislu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Powerlifter,
> I was commenting on junk food eating. I generally
> don't think of it as being a method for healing?
> The general thread has changed to talking about
> onions and garlic, but I am still not sure what to
> make of onions and garlic overall. I personally
> don't care for them,but if someone gets a benefit
> from them, or thinks they get a benefit from them
> I can't stop them from eating it.

Ahh i didn't really understand what you meant but was in agreement that food was better quality and more nutrient rich. Antibiotic overuse has really done a number on us also amongst other factors such as increase in enviromental toxins.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]

Powerlifter,
That really gets me depressed. I just watched a documentary about Gershon therapy, and it listed sources of toxins. They are so numerous, and from sources that I had never thought of, makes me feel like giving up in alot of ways. It almost seems like a conspiracy to poison the public.

Mislu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
It almost seems
> like a conspiracy to poison the public.

almost? sure seems to me like it is !! (

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

We do what we can, with what we have or can get. I'm optimistic, as there seems to be many more people not only talking about health, but are actually practising it. We must look over a longer time span, say from the sixties through to the present. There has been change for the worst for sure, but also some major changes for better. Prior to the hippie movement, there was rarely any talk about recycling, but now we are encouraged to do so. And the internet has given us a medium to spread the word world wide.

Anyhoo, people will and are being forced to change for the better. Please don't be specific about it, because I know in some areas is seems we are being forced negatively. However, if we take our resources for example, finite energy resources will run out. And in doing so, will become too expensive; therefore, we will be forced to use more sustainable energy.

mislu, could you share with us that list of toxins?

Tamukha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> madinah,
>
> In the sense that we become what we eat foods may
> affect our spirituality . . .
>
> This is why I worry more now than I ever did
> before about all the junk food meat eaters around
> us. What will become of them? What will become
> of us if they continue to proliferate? Don't mean
> to be a downer, everyone, just musing . . .


We do not have to look far to see the sad results of the junk food on our spirituality, on our morality, crimes, suicides trends in youths and young Adults Aged 10--24 Years, declining healths, rising health costs, childhood obesity, and more...