[www.youtube.com]

She had been gone for a while and I guess she was working on all this. She says she got emails saying she shouldn't be promoting raw foods since her dietary shift but if she's still high-raw, I don't see why not.

I love her.

i think shes great too , she has alot of positive energy. Im really looking forward to following her new channel ..her old channel stillhas alot of really great information and a s far as whats shes eating .. it doesnt matter to me .. i have enought to worry about with what im eating i dont need to fuss over someone else

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

She looks great! Happy she's found her own way

I lost respect for her after she added animal products ostensibly because of B-12. I just don't buy her rationale.

I used to really enjoy her videos. A shame.

My rationale for not losing respect is that she's honest. Too many with financial interests in raw veganism are flat out liars who encourage that people strictly follow a diet that they themselves can't 100% follow. I also know that people go down different paths on their journeys. It happens. Might as well leave this one open in case she wants to return. That doesn't mean that I watch her videos now or that I'll be recommending her to anyone, but instead that I don't see the point of being negative toward her. We have these fundamentalist, crusading vegans who go around telling people that they're inferior because they're not vegan. If this were a different time they'd be railing about how they're going to burn in hell. I fail to understand how that approach is going to open anyone's mind to veganism or give them more incentive to return. Witch-hunts are not cool or effective. She's young. Why not have patience and see how this pans out?

pborst Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I lost respect for her after she added animal
> products ostensibly because of B-12. I just don't
> buy her rationale.
>
> I used to really enjoy her videos. A shame.


I respectfully disagree. She has been a vegan since age 14! And if memory serves, she may have been vedge most of her life also. Meat and eggs are not something she ever cared about, in other words. So I look at her decision as something she is only doing because she tried everything else. She had a bunch of stuff going on with her body her whole life. I don't know if you saw that video where she talked about all her issues but perhaps this is why it came to this.

HH, I agree with you: she is being HONEST, which is more than possibly others are doing (tempted by their image and the moola pouring in...)!

HH & BW,

I think we can agree to disagree on this one. We agree on so many other things. I just don't buy that it is necessary to consume animal products in order to overcome b-12 deficiency as she wrote me. That's all.

Paul

I hear what you're saying Paul, and I respect your opinion. It seems to me that the B12 puzzle can only be solved on an individual basis. That's just my experience. I don't even bother debating it anymore. If she's saying that everyone needs to eat animal products to maintain healthy B12 levels, I'll respectfully disagree with her too. I'd have to hear her say that myself though. One would hope that she's also seeing it a subjective thing instead of a universal one.

For B12, all the theories aside, it is hard to find any creature in the wild that does not feed on some animal products.[www.flickr.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/2012 05:39PM by madinah.

One of the worst things to happen to raw veganism was when people found out that bonobos are carnivorous. [www.newscientist.com]

I like her better now.

Thanks for the link. I think it's good to acknowledge when something doesn't work for your health, it's good to not get caught up in dogma too. Good for her. I'll watch.

It's such a foolish thing to freak out because she's not 100% raw or 100% vegan, that only works or works long term for a very select few, it's certainly a realistic approach that she's taking.

And for all concerned, she's not advocating that one can only absorb B-12 from animals; not at all. I can't imagine how she must feel having to eat eggs/fish/etc. when she avoided all that for years and years. I am sure it was not an easy decision for her.

Remember when I touched off a bit of a firestorm for mentioning Susan Schenck's decision to go paleo? I find it interesting that I haven't heard any news about that book that she was supposedly writing. Perhaps she had a change of heart? All I know is that I had her raw book and she laid out a great case for vegan. So people shift opinions all the time. I don't fault them for it but it gives pause when they seem to be so adamant about something and then shift so radically. In Natasha's case, I am certain she's still eating mostly raw. She lives in an amazing place for it, that's for sure!

What BW says is true. Natasha is not saying you can only absorb B-12 from animal products. And Heaven Hands is correct that she is making a personal statment, not an overt universal one.

From her email to me and other subscribers "I made the announcement that I had decided to add animal products to my diet due to a severe vitamin B12 deficiency. I had been taking oral Methylcobalamin B12 supplements for over a decade, but my body was not absorbing the vitamin it needed. I had a choice: take monthly vitamin B12 injections for the rest of my life,or, get the vitamin B12 naturally from food, which meant adding animal products to my diet. "

From her new website radiance central

"But in 2010, Natasha was diagnosed with a severe vitamin B12 deficiency. She had been taking vitamin B12 supplements for over a decade but her body was not absorbing it. She was therefore in the position to choose between staying on a 100% raw vegan diet and getting monthly injections of vitamin B12 for the rest of her life or changing her diet by including animal foods. After being a vegetarian for over 23 years and on a raw vegan diet for almost 4 years, Natasha made the switch and added animal foods into her daily diet. Natasha has always been a firm believer in sticking to a whole food diet, cooked and/or raw, but most importantly that one eats as much natural, fresh, whole foods as possible, and avoids processed, refined, junk foods to the best of one’s ability. For Natasha, making this dietary change was a testament of the importance of flexibility, and always putting one’s health first over any dogma or theoretical belief."

So, if I'm reading her correctly, she was diagnosed with B-12 deficiency even though she had methylcobalamin oral supplements (she does not say whether these are tablets or sublingual so we don't know if she's exhausted all of her "non shot" vegan options). Does anyone know? And she now feels that she has to include animal products because shots would be less desirable. And she has a right to her opinion and decision.

I guess where I have lost respect for her is going public with all of this first of all without being able to tell us (at least in her intro) that it was the right decision. Did the animal products work? Is her MMA down? Is her homocysteine down? Second, I don't like the pejorative (in bold above) for those who might have been either providing constructive criticism or raising alternatives. Finally, it's not transparent. When you self-disclose, this can be a powerful tool so long as you are complete, concise and truthful. We don't know very much about how she reached her decision at least in these blurb quotes which is all a prospective client will see how she got to where she is.

It could be read or misread as an enticement to a vegan as a license to eat animal products and use Natasha as a case study. I think if you are going to self-disclose, you either have to keep it short and sweet or disclose fully. A half-hearted self-disclosure creates both uncertainty and expectation without providing appropriate context. And no, I don't think the fact that it is just her story is sufficient to provide that.


It's her decision of course. But she chose to make it public and is holding herself out to the world as a raw food coach, e.g. someone with authority and knowledge to guide others in making their decision. That invites public input and if some of that input is negative, you can only make lemonade out of lemons in my opinion. If she doesn't have an axe to grind, just put an "I am not a vegan" disclaimer on the front and go forth.

I'm not a doctor. And so I'm not qualified to offer the equivalent of "expert testimony" about whether someone unable to take "oral supplements" (whatever that means) is left with a choice between shots and animal products. The thing is Natasha is not a doctor either. Making what ostensibly a personal statement on a site where you are going to be coaching, is in my mind HH, making a tacit universal statement. So, I'm deferring judgment on the medical part of her statement since I'm not qualified to make it.

I am an active member of Dr. Joel Fuhrman's board who is qualified to at least offer an opinion on what options a patient who did not absorb oral supplements of B-12 well. In Natasha's defense, Joel isn't fond of B-12 shots either. He has said that the shots include chemicals and dyes not found in supplements but one has to scratch his head when considering pollutants, animal protein and animal fat whether eating animal products is a lower risk than taking shots (as well as cost). That's part of the problem of a half-hearted self-disclosure.

HH & BW, I know we don't agree on this. But have agreed on so many other things. So I will leave it as I said above. Agree to disagree. The short term tangible result for me personally is that I'm going to stop listening to Natasha as she no longer has any credibility with me. Different strokes for different folks.

Paul



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2012 03:49PM by pborst.

Injections seems so unnatural, should not nutrients come from food alone?

Thanks Paul.

pborst Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What BW says is true. Natasha is not saying you
> can only absorb B-12 from animal products. And
> Heaven Hands is correct that she is making a
> personal statment, not an overt universal one.
>
> From her email to me and other subscribers "I
> made the announcement that I had decided to add
> animal products to my diet due to a severe vitamin
> B12 deficiency. I had been taking oral
> Methylcobalamin B12 supplements for over a decade,
> but my body was not absorbing the vitamin it
> needed. I had a choice: take monthly vitamin B12
> injections for the rest of my life,or, get the
> vitamin B12 naturally from food, which meant
> adding animal products to my diet. "
>
> From her new website radiance central
>
> "But in 2010, Natasha was diagnosed with a severe
> vitamin B12 deficiency. She had been taking
> vitamin B12 supplements for over a decade but her
> body was not absorbing it. She was therefore in
> the position to choose between staying on a 100%
> raw vegan diet and getting monthly injections of
> vitamin B12 for the rest of her life or changing
> her diet by including animal foods. After being a
> vegetarian for over 23 years and on a raw vegan
> diet for almost 4 years, Natasha made the switch
> and added animal foods into her daily diet.
> Natasha has always been a firm believer in
> sticking to a whole food diet, cooked and/or raw,
> but most importantly that one eats as much
> natural, fresh, whole foods as possible, and
> avoids processed, refined, junk foods to the best
> of one’s ability. For Natasha, making this
> dietary change was a testament of the importance
> of flexibility, and always putting one’s health
> first over any dogma or theoretical belief."
>
> So, if I'm reading her correctly, she was
> diagnosed with B-12 deficiency even though she had
> methylcobalamin oral supplements (she does not say
> whether these are tablets or sublingual so we
> don't know if she's exhausted all of her "non
> shot" vegan options). Does anyone know? And she
> now feels that she has to include animal products
> because shots would be less desirable. And she
> has a right to her opinion and decision.
>
> I guess where I have lost respect for her is going
> public with all of this first of all without being
> able to tell us (at least in her intro) that it
> was the right decision. Did the animal products
> work? Is her MMA down? Is her homocysteine down?
> Second, I don't like the pejorative (in bold
> above) for those who might have been either
> providing constructive criticism or raising
> alternatives. Finally, it's not transparent.
> When you self-disclose, this can be a powerful
> tool so long as you are complete, concise and
> truthful. We don't know very much about how she
> reached her decision at least in these blurb
> quotes which is all a prospective client will see
> how she got to where she is.
>
> It could be read or misread as an enticement to a
> vegan as a license to eat animal products and use
> Natasha as a case study. I think if you are going
> to self-disclose, you either have to keep it short
> and sweet or disclose fully. A half-hearted
> self-disclosure creates both uncertainty and
> expectation without providing appropriate context.
> And no, I don't think the fact that it is just
> her story is sufficient to provide that.
>
>
> It's her decision of course. But she chose to
> make it public and is holding herself out to the
> world as a raw food coach, e.g. someone with
> authority and knowledge to guide others in making
> their decision. That invites public input and if
> some of that input is negative, you can only make
> lemonade out of lemons in my opinion. If she
> doesn't have an axe to grind, just put an "I am
> not a vegan" disclaimer on the front and go forth.
>
>
> I'm not a doctor. And so I'm not qualified to
> offer the equivalent of "expert testimony" about
> whether someone unable to take "oral supplements"
> (whatever that means) is left with a choice
> between shots and animal products. The thing is
> Natasha is not a doctor either. Making what
> ostensibly a personal statement on a site where
> you are going to be coaching, is in my mind HH,
> making a tacit universal statement. So, I'm
> deferring judgment on the medical part of her
> statement since I'm not qualified to make it.
>
> I am an active member of Dr. Joel Fuhrman's board
> who is qualified to at least offer an opinion on
> what options a patient who did not absorb oral
> supplements of B-12 well. In Natasha's defense,
> Joel isn't fond of B-12 shots either. He has
> said that the shots include chemicals and dyes not
> found in supplements but one has to scratch his
> head when considering pollutants, animal protein
> and animal fat whether eating animal products is a
> lower risk than taking shots (as well as cost).
> That's part of the problem of a half-hearted
> self-disclosure.
>
> HH & BW, I know we don't agree on this. But have
> agreed on so many other things. So I will leave
> it as I said above. Agree to disagree. The short
> term tangible result for me personally is that I'm
> going to stop listening to Natasha as she no
> longer has any credibility with me. Different
> strokes for different folks.
>
> Paul

HeavenHands Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I love her.
I do too. She seems so Honest.
I like her Teeth too. Does anyone know for sure if they are her original set?......WY

From Facebook:

Ariela Lopes
HI I'M SO CURIOUS AND IF YOU CAN ANSWER PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTION. THE QUESTION IS WHAT KIND OF ANIMAL PRODUCTS,FOOD YOU'VE BEEN INCLUDING IN YOUR DIET. IS IT MEAT,FISH,MILK? PLEASE I'D BE SO HAPPY IF YOU ANSWER ME! THANK YOU!


"Natasha St Michael

I've added eggs, fish, seafood, meat, yogurt and cheese into my diet."

res ipsa loquitur !!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2012 09:30PM by pborst.

Wow, the whole shebang. That first item is not off my list but the rest of them, no thanks.

Coco, I thought you were a total vegan.

I'll PM you about this "forbidden subject" .

coco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'll PM you about this "forbidden subject" .

I knew someone once who was 100% Raw, and Vegan except for raw Egg Yolks......WY

Hmmmmmmm, yogurt's not even a good source of B12 . . .

Wow. When she falls off the wagon she doesn't mess around.

HeavenHands Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow. When she falls off the wagon she doesn't mess
> around.


LOL! Dude.

wonder if she bought a pair of Uggs and a leather jacket, too. for her deficiency. lol!

Not intended for you to have a chance to laugh at someone, babe.

coco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HeavenHands Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Wow. When she falls off the wagon she doesn't
> mess
> > around.
>
>
> LOL! Dude.

So sorry! Next time you make a joke I promise not to laugh.

Read my words: It was not intended as a joke. It was intended as a benign observation couched in reality. She fell off the wagon in a big way. That's it. No need to go all "mean girls" on her and turn me into an accomplice, toots.