[www.youtube.com]

A while back I posted on the large corporate nature of organic food. Now, come to find, most of the "organic food" from Whole Foods is from China. And the QA is not USDA inspectors but outsourced 3rd parties who really haven't done the job.

I'm not arguing against eating organic food. Rather, I'm suggesting we be selective about the particular organic food we eat. Maybe IPM or local conventional is better than organic international? That's a value judgement.

Given the changes in the organic food market, I'm reminded of the old saying, "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me"

Paul

the story appears to be from 2008. Here is WF response. [blog.wholefoodsmarket.com].

Paul

why are you suspicious of food raised in China anymore than raised here? Just curious?

With regard to EU I would think it is the presence of physical checks. If the food is grown locally the farmer is inspected at least once a year:

[ec.europa.eu]

Imported food, on the other hand, is subject to documentary checks only (though physical checks are permitted it appears they are not usually carried out):

[ec.europa.eu]

[www.nelincs.gov.uk]

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<

Krefcenz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> why are you suspicious of food raised in China
> anymore than raised here? Just curious?

China is polluted with mercury all over. Google it out. Coal mines, factories, etc. It is even spreading through the ocean. So not using pesticides (organic) does not mean anything when the soil is toxic.

Panchito,

So you are asserting that "organic" produce from China is contaminated with mercury? Is that your claim?

Kref

p.s. Chat, I get your point. Everything is relative to location.

Krefcenz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So you are asserting that "organic" produce from
> China is contaminated with mercury? Is that your
> claim?

No. What I say is for you to make your own claim.

Panchito,

I'm asking a question, not making a claim.

Kref

OK.

The answer was written as No.

Now a question back to you.

Are asserting that China is Not contaminated with mercury? Is that your claim?

Krefcenz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> why are you suspicious of food raised in China
> anymore than raised here? Just curious?

Kref

To answer your question. It sounded from the original 2008 story that Whole Foods outsourced their 3rd party inspection whereas if it were done in the US, it would be a USDA inspector. The Whole Foods response seems to indicate otherwise. I'm skeptical.

Paul

so if I understand you correctly,WF is having another group QA their organic produce before they import it here, what'wrong with that?

Kref

Accountability, if it's a USDA inspector, his findings are subject to one set of review. If it is a 3rd party, I don't know the process. Maybee it's fine. I guess we will have to wait until we get a complaint, though much exposure can occur between now and then.

Paul

They test for pesticides not mercury. Mercury contamination has nothing to do with being organic. I'd rather eat pesticides than mercury.

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK.
>
> The answer was written as No.

ok

>
> Now a question back to you.
>
> Are asserting that China is Not contaminated with
> mercury? Is that your claim?

first, you are missing a pronoun. I assume "you". And let's stop the silliness shall we? You raised the issue of mercury in China, not up to me to refute your claim. If you can't support your original claim, you can't. No problem.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/2012 07:11PM by Krefcenz.

I wrote something and then you asked me if I wrote something else. I did answered your question. You did not answer mine.

With respect Panchito, I did. I'm not responsible proffer facts for questions with no facts in evidence.

You asserted China is polluted with mercury all over. Ok, where? how much? what are mercury levels in chinese produce, organic or otherwise?
Kref



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/2012 07:22PM by Krefcenz.

@ Panchito. ok that's what I thought.

@ Paul, I thought WF said the USDA had reviewed WF or other comparably marketed organic produce? Am I reading into it?

Kref

This is an excellent reason not to shop at Whole Foods.

I'm even suspicious about locally grown 'organic' produce. I have to 'sample' what I can every time I buy organic from the local market. Sometimes, especially with spinach, it tastes horrible. Since I usually only eat raw vegies, it's important to now sample everything that I know has tasted sus' in the past.

Also, sometimes the food is tasteless. I've found this with zucchinis, yellow squash, tomatoes, watermelon, capsicum, mushrooms, bananas, pawpaw and rockmelon. I would have thought that organic food would have more flavour etc., but not so. At times when the tastelessness of some organic food persists over an extended period, I find myselt buying from large supermarkets, such as 'Coles' or 'Woolworths' etc., since the inorganic produce actually tastes better!!!

Does anyone know why that is??? One reason that I thought, was that the farmers have over-watered the produce in order for it to grow faster or something!!! Or that the earth is depleted of nutrients, or there's not enough organic fertilizer used!!!

Can anyone help???

Thx, jalan

If the farmers don't rotate the crops, the soil will become depleted. From what I understand, rotating crops is extremeley rare.

Yeah, could be RawP, as they just heap on more organic fertilizer. I come from a fifth gen farming family, and we always rotated our crops. We'd rest one paddock for a whole year and after the harvest, we'd burn the stubble and leave it to grow grass naturally, which was then used to graze farm animals. Also, every few years, we'd plant a legume crop, which would return nitrogen to the soil and was also great for grazing our farm animals.

Back further in time, when farming was for the life-style rather than a focus on money, my grandfather would rest half his paddocks for two or even three years. As a child, I remember how much better these paddocks looked when they were first planted after such a rest period. The plants were soooo dark green, and my Dad used to say the yield was two or three times more than if he hadn't rested the land.

Looking at it that way (extra yield) I'd think that he actually made as much or more money than if he had planted every year using heaps of fertilizer. And that's another thing, he never used fertilizer, so he saved that cost. I don't remember whether he used chemical sprays. If he did, it wasn't much, cause my Father only sprayed if it was absolutely necessary.

What I mean is, that there was a 'weed' called 'skeleton' weed, that would choke out the plants before they had a chance to grow. Dad would rake over the paddocks a couple of times, which uprooted this weed prior to planting. However, sometimes there was just too much of it, so he had to spray.

Sorry, I've raved on abit. jalan

jalan,

Dead soil=dead flavor. My gramps rotated his garden crops, rested certain plots, varied what he planted and grouped plants together according to what they contributed to or took from soil, and fertilized with compost.

Large scale organic agriculture, especially in arid locations, is counterproductive. These businesses are betting that because it's got an organic label slapped on it, people will buy it, even if it tastes bad. As increasingly fewer people exist who actually remember what ripe, nutritious fruits and vegetables taste like, awful tasting "certified organic" food will continue to sell, thus further perpetuating this dysfunction in organic crop farming systems. It saddens me what organic farming is turning into these days

Prana Wrote:
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> This is an excellent reason not to shop at Whole
> Foods.


Yeah, somebody had the guts to say it!
I agree, I don't need to know anything about the subject to see that WFM is only concerned about making money. I can see this by the produce they put forth every day. It's sad that this is the best we got, and some don't even have this? The government needs to step in and make it happen and that's all there is to it. Unfortunately that won't happen.

Prana, did you actually watch the video? They focused on frozen foods. And this is available by simply looking at the freaking package! I will tell you that I doubt this is still going on. I bought some "organic" spinach from China from their brand and was shocked to discover it was from China. But this was a couple of years ago and when I checked back, they were selling American-grown frozen items. Doesn't really affect me too much--I buy fresh veggies most of the time.

Paul, I really think you should change your headline. You have "most" foods being from China and IMO that is an exaggeration. I am in WF's just about every day (and since I don't drive, proximity matters greatly to me). I always check labels and I have never seen something from China except for once (aforementioned frozen spinach).

Oh and just for the record, I have ordered RAW food items from a certain vendor online. Three orders and three occasions where packaged foods (raw nori, raw carob, spirulina tabs and raw vanilla powder) contained no label. Nada. Well, except for saying it was organic. But country of origin seems to be the LAW, isn't it? I found it incredibly sketchy and with the last order asked a customer service dude about it. His response? They had "problems" with the label. How do you have a problem with the label yet can slap one on that says "certified organic"?! So recently I was perusing their site and now they are stating where these food items are from? Guess which country I saw listed? Yup, CHINA So chances are that was where all those things were coming from. And no, I don't trust China.

Let me add that the video also mentioned some other foods from China. There is no scandal involved if the label is accurate. The fact that the woman never checked is HER fault! Maybe she shops at WF for some silly status thing. I get good deals on organic kale, herbs, bulk beans, and a few other items. I also buy nutritional yeast and Bragg's and you can't get that stuff at a local grocer. Maybe if you live in CA and have a year-round farmers market, it's unncessary but some of us are trying to eat healthily and this is our best option on a regular basis.

Thanks BW, actually it's "many" foods rather than "most" but I take your point. Unfortunately, as you know, we lose the ability to edit the post after about 5 minutes.

For me, I would take local conventional over Chinese organic if only because of the lack of QA for the USDA's third party QAI. That alone is enough for me to avoid it. To each their own.

Paul

Me, too Paul. There is no way I trust a country like China when it comes to organic. If they would allow BABY formula and other foods to be contaminated and cut with toxic material, then they would do anything. China is at a developmental stage which I compare to the Industrial Revolution. Quasi-slave labor, pollution like crazy...Maybe someday they will get to the point where they won't do underhanded things, but now it's all about the MONEY!

(Oh and on a slightly gross note...India is also experiencing incredible economic growth and is coming out with foods being sold at WF's. I bought some frozen samosas a while ago and they contained pieces of METAL within the samosa! Yuck! I am a bit leery of what standards they have in their processing facilities...)

banana who Wrote:
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> (Oh and on a slightly gross note...India is also
> experiencing incredible economic growth and is
> coming out with foods being sold at WF's. I bought
> some frozen samosas a while ago and they contained
> pieces of METAL within the samosa! Yuck! I am a
> bit leery of what standards they have in their
> processing facilities...)

Wow what kind of laws you have over there in US Had I found a piece of metal in a UK samosa I'd be very stinking rich

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2012 09:44PM by chat.

hey jalantun

what's a paddock?
i don't want the computer to be telling me everything

A paddock??? A closed field of land.