Where you put your pony to play.

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<

Quote

A paddock??? A closed field of land.

Edit: Usually, where animals are kept.

Yes La-veronique, a fenced off plot of land, and you don't have to do anything with it. Although, it is usually where crops, grass or animals are grown/kept. Sorry, I forget that ozzie slang is almost another language

I do my best to NOT! buy my produce from whole foods and get it from the Organic Farmers Market! I am not that wealthy though and I cannot always do this. For years though I would buy all my vegetables from the market and they would last for a week or two and still be very fresh. Some of the produce is picked the night before. Often I wont even buy from WFM if the label says it's from another country! Our government sucks!

rzman10001 Wrote:
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> I do my best to NOT! buy my produce from whole
> foods and get it from the Organic Farmers Market!
> I am not that wealthy though and I cannot always
> do this. For years though I would buy all my
> vegetables from the market and they would last for
> a week or two and still be very fresh. Some of
> the produce is picked the night before. Often I
> wont even buy from WFM if the label says it's from
> another country! Our government sucks!

What does WF have to do with our government sucking? I have not had the experience of any produce from WF being from other countries (except tropical stuff, of course). And it ticked me off to no end to discover that my local farmers market was not pesticide-free. What I mean is that in addition to the organic farms represented, I naturally assumed that the others were simply not certified. But one vendor stated that he uses Round Up. When I found this out, I no longer automatically shop there. Because why wouldn't the local produce markets have fresh-picked stuff, too?

Whole foods is in the bussiness to make money and that is it's first motivation. Where I live it sells stuff from other places all the time, cucks, zuccini,squash etc. etc. it might be different where you live. If our government did not suck they would make it manditory to grow fresh organic food in this country! and therefore it would be much easier for WFM to make money selling organic produce that was fresh and less expensive. My farmers market is ONLY ORGANIC! but I am not sure of your statement/question reguarding that? WFM produce lasts only a few days in my case partially because I am in Florida and most of the stuff comes from CA or Mexico etc.

That is my point. Not all of us have the option of year-round farmers markets so we have to do the best we can. I live outside Chicago--you may have heard that it gets a bit nippy? Not speaking to you particularly, but this myth that farmers markets sell food that is 100% organic is...well...a myth. Maybe yours does, but as I revealed, mine has conventional produce (and not cheap, either!).

There are certain foods at WF that are good deals. I buy most of my organic lettuce and fresh herbs there.

banana who,

Well, I don't know if it's a myth that farmers markets are mostly organic if this isn't commonly believed

Most larger family farms are all about the Archer Daniels Midland; you drive by them and see that placard right at the edge of the growing fields. Word is slowly getting out that this is not, in fact, a bona fide to the average consumer, but whether they are switching to more sustainable methods is not yet in evidence, at least not in the Upper Midwest.

I sent an irate letter to Trader Joe's a couple of years ago, concerning their organic frozen spinach's being Chinese in origin. The letter went something like, I know we grow organic spinach here, don't be telling me you can't support our American farmers, TJ's! I got a sympathetic non-form letter, responding considerately to several of my concerns. This may be what rzman is referring to: if we had a government that was more concerned about advocating for American food producers--food, not SuperSweet Corn--and which was more protectionist about regulating competition from foreign producers, our farmers and farms would be doing much better, and you'd be able to buy American grown products year round, wherever you wished. Local growers might also find greater encouragement to use "slow" food production methods because the pressure to compete with dodgily mass produced foreign foods would be alleviated. Possibilities[sigh]

I just won't shop at a big chain store of any kind when there is an alternative, they have corporate interests that will never be in line with mine. They simply are not trustworthy.

I agree Coco, as even the inorganic farmers markets (FM) sell mainly local produce which is fresh and sometimes even harvested the day before (sorry if someone already said that).

I've never seen FM selling above the price of the larger Supermarkets, but at times they're equal with them. I still would rather buy at the FM for the principle, as it's hard enough for the small operator to compete with the larger multi-nationals without not being supported by the local people.

I would buy on a local market but only if they sell organic. In UK organic local market prices tend to be higher than supermarkets, but still I agree there is a reason to prefer the former.

But conventional produce, I would opt for the supermarket organic instead. Local market fruits and veggies might be fresher it's true, but so will be the pesticides on these fruits and veggies..

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2012 10:19PM by chat.

I guess I am thinking back to my last town. There was a produce market and the people who owned it had a farm in MI. So their produce was sold at a fraction of the cost of the farmers at the local farmers market and just as fresh! I mean, I went to a nearby farmers market on Sat. and one vendor was selling non-organic tomatoes for $4 a pound! It's not gonna happen. And anyway, I wonder how they were grown. Tomatoes don't usually come in until July at the earliest. Of course with the screwy weather, anything is possible...

I've found a vendor who doesn't say his produce it organic, because he sometimes uses what he calls a fairly safe pesticide. However, it's only occasionally, and usually it's all 100% organic.

His spinach and lettuce will last a full week in the fridge without any decay whatsoever, and when bent in half, the stalk will give that tell-tale audible 'snap', which denotes freshness.

Never, has spinach etc lasted that long without some form of oxidation or going 'soft'. Accept home grown produce of course, but even produce from the local organic store won't last that long.

It's the first time any market/store bought produce has behaved like that. Even after two weeks I can still juice what's left over with safety and no change in flavour. After three weeks it's a little sus, but certainly not what you'd expect.

I've raved abit, but I've never experienced this before, and I thought I'd seen it all...how bumptious

It's so worth it to get to know your grower, often a small farm can't afford to be certified organic but they'll tell you how they grow their stuff, what they use on it etc. If it's a small family place, many of them don't spray with the horrid toxic stuff. A local orchard here is not certified but he treats his apples with seaweed and garlic liquid instead of poison.
The thing about supermarket organics is unless you are friendly with the produce manager and he or she is the knowledgeable sort, you can't be certain that produce isn't organically grown but from GMO seed. It's so good to know your grower, there simply isn't anything better than that.

coco Wrote:
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> The thing about supermarket organics is unless you
> are friendly with the produce manager and he or
> she is the knowledgeable sort, you can't be
> certain that produce isn't organically grown but
> from GMO seed.

Not sure if I understood the above correctly. If a supermarket labels some product as organic, this means that the product has to conform to an organic certification standard which is in place in that particular country. Why do you need to know the manager on top? Is it to ensure that you buy the product which exceeds the certification standards?

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<

Perhaps produce grown from GMO seed would pass the organic certification process??? Also, the manager may know where the produce was grown, and how long ago etc.

In my neck of the woods, supermarket organics are way more expensive than the local organic store.

jalan

Chat, there is pesticide-free produce that is not officially organic but is grown that way. It takes quite a bit for something to be called organic--it's a process which (if I am correct) takes a few years before the soil is good enough to be called organic.

I naturally assumed that the farmers were all pesticide-free. I really did not expect them to use chemicals to control pests and weeds! So it's a bit irksome that we have to pay so much extra for "fresh" but it's still been sprayed!

There are different standards for organic certification, some of it can be grown from GMO seed, some of it uses certain pesticides that are acceptable. If the produce manager is good he or she will know what's what.
Monsatan is pushing very hard for ALL organic standards to include GMO seed that has been grown organically, this is already the case in some places. Knowing who gave the certification and their standards ensures you're actually getting what you think you are.
Also, many brands can call themselves organic even if the product only contains a small percentage of organics, the rest conventional. Take care to know what's what if this is important to you.

If you live in the United States, the USDA Organic Standard prohibits any GMO in the product. [www.ams.usda.gov]. And Coco is right, there are different organic certifications. And you need to be familiar with what organic standard you are buying as well as the enforcement of the standard.

Paul

coco Wrote:
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> There are different standards for organic
> certification, some of it can be grown from GMO
> seed, some of it uses certain pesticides that are
> acceptable. If the produce manager is good he or
> she will know what's what.

In UK the word 'organic' is strictly defined by law (you can usefully compare it to the word 'raw' which isn't). We have indeed several certification bodies the standards of which are varied, but this is sort of irrelevant because all such standards comply with the baseline EU organic standard.

What I mean by "irrelevant", is that if EU standard is good enough, the local standards will be good enough, because they are either the same or better than the EU. That's why I couldnt understand why would one need to be friendly with the manager in order to safely shop organic in the supermarket. In UK the only thing one needs is the ability to read the labels!

Is the situation very different in US or Canada? Do you guys not have a centralised standard, or at least a centralised requirement to put on the label the particular standard which was used in naming the product "organic"?

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/2012 03:06PM by chat.

There is no measurable standard for organics grown in Mexico, in Chile, in China. If the produce in your market is not local (and in the off season particularly it will not be) then you've got no idea how it was grown. I know for a fact that there isn't a secondary body governing growing practices in China, this is detailed in articles about the WF organic scam.
A good produce manager should have information beyond just the basics. That's what I'm saying.

But irrespective of where the product comes from, it won't be sold as organic in the country unless either it's production conforms to the country's organic standard, or the product is labelled as being organic according to Mexico or China. Otherwise what's the point in standardisation

Of course there may and will be slips and glitches, but they occur everywhere nothing special about supermarket organics here. Unless the country in question does not regulate the matter, and provides no labelling guarantees, then of course the only thing to do is to get friendly with the seller, for only he will know where the product comes from.

Thankfully this is not the case in UK - nothing is perfect mind you and the checks on foreign organics could be improved, but at least things tend to be labelled accordingly in the supermarkets so that one can more or less safely shop there without taking any extra precautions.

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<

There is no governing body in China making sure organics are grown to the standards of the countries they sell to, this is detailed in articles on the WF organics scam. Look it up, it's very unfortunately true.

Does your country regulate labelling though - in other words, when you go to supermarket, and see organic pumpkin seeds being sold, does it say on the packet where do they come from?

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<

Did a quick check @ WF this afternoon. Pulled out the first five organic frozen items from the freezer. All from the good USofA (including the spinach mentioned in the clip). The 6th one was from Ecuador (pea pods or the like).

The video piece seemed like a hit job to me. They mentioned the tiny print that said 'Made in China.' Well guess what, kiddies? The print stating it was from USA was tiny, too! I never see big letters on food packages touting it's from America (except for apple juice).

Coco is in Canada, Chat. So, I can't speak for Canada being in the US. But if you want to sell a piece of food in the US as organic, we have a USDA certification program, the url is above. Theo original issue was the 3rd party verification if it came from outside the US. We didn't send USDA inspectors to China. We subbed it to a 3rd party contractor who didn't perform or at least I think that's the issue. Whole Foods disputes that account. And I linked to their response. But that's the US. Jalutan lives in Austrilia, you, Jan, Chris and others live in the UK. Coco in Canada. Different jurisdictions. How many have Whole Foods? I didn't realize it was beyond here (US, my here). EU organic certification may suffice. The devil is in the details. At least as far as the specific question about GMO, in the US if it is sold under the USDA organic label, it is not supposed to be GMO. But that, like everything else in life, is a question of compliance with the existing standard.

Paul

Whole Paycheck and Target have moved here in recent years. We've got organic standards but they are under constant attack by monsatan etc. Ever vigilant...

the only product that i know of at whole foods that is grown in china is pepitas(pumpkin seeds.) what other stuff is grown there? i eat fruit, veggies,grown either here or mexico or ecuador for bananas. hemp seeds come from canada. what else does a raw fooder need?

Lots of pine kernels also come from China. In Europe we can get Styrian pumpkin seeds, they are considered to be a more valuable variety and are grown in Austria, the rest come from China.

Pborst, we don't have WF here in UK but we also have plenty of foreign organic produce, including from China. If I have a choice I would not buy imported if only for environmental reasons, but otherwise we just have to either take it on trust that "spot-checks" and "regular reports and inspections" which are provided by EU regulations with regard to imported products are sufficient to ensure it is really organic. Or avoid imported products full stop.

>Banana ice-cream rocks!<

Our local food processing plant Heinz can no longer afford to buy fruit from local orchards, they have nearly ALL been ripped up in the past few years. Now Heinz buys apples, pears, peaches etc from China. I'm not kidding. We live in the farming centre of the country and our local factory buys produce from China. Organic and conventional. It is a very scary thing.