Whilst some may do the diet wrong and under-eat i don't disagree with that at all. There are those who are following a raw diet to a tee and developing issues such as hair loss, lack of menstrual cycle and so on.

These are issues that are occuring for many as a result of following a raw diet, i.e they weren't happening before and certainly aren't a result of cleansing or detox the latter which is used far too often as an excuse for problems on a raw diet. Your hair doesn't start to fall out in clumps due to detox and neither does losing your menstrual cycle.

Most blood tests just test for the very basic indicators such as blood cell counts, iron etc. Even thyroid testing is often not accurate enough but i know of many who have developed hypothyroidism following a raw diet.

Some are able to thrive at least in the short term, i again agree with you there fresh but its hard to put stock and belief into how raw these people often actually are because they sell raw coaching, books, supplements etc and there lifehoods depend on them saying they follow a raw diet. I can't find many examples of just someone who follows a raw diet longterm but doesn't have something to sell me.

There are some physical differences between diets though, one example is the sheer amount of copper in relation to zinc you get on a raw vegan diet, this could cause some of the hormonal problems aswell as lack of protein due to zinc deficiency. Other physical differences could include a lack of cholesterol, vitamin B12 and D, these could be potential issues for some people.

I think a raw diet may be useful as a cleanse and to get away from the overeating, junk processed food etc which usually accompanies the average diet. But too many people are running into problems long term following a raw diet, if it was as healthy as its promoted to be, people wouldn't be developing serious health problems as a result of following it. No different from many other fad diets. High raw food intake is great but a fully raw diet, in my opinion not so much.

[www.vegankingdom.co.uk]



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2012 09:09AM by powerlifer.

<<<There are those who are following a raw diet to a tee and developing issues such as …lack of menstrual cycle … many who have developed hypothyroidism following a raw diet.>>>

Hey powerlifer,

Two of my most interesting files are on Menstruation and The Thyroid Gland mainly because they are full of testimonials from people following a Raw Food Diet and #1) women stop having all of those horrible symptoms associated with that time of month, especially hemorrhaging and #2) every time they go back to their doctor they have to cut back on their Thyroid Medication because they’ve been eating more Raw Food and as soon as they go back to the Cooked Food or Altered Food, they have to bump up their Thyroid Medication.

Now my file on Menstruation is one of my favorites because I know my limitations - I am not a woman and I’m sure a lot of women can get offended when men talk about something they don’t even have a corresponding organ to. However, there is a BIG difference between Hemorrhaging and Ovulating and most of these women in my file say that they are still Ovulating, so a “lack of menstrual cycle” as you put is actually a good thing for most women.

This goes back to what is known as Fontanels. Whenever our Main Channel of Elimination (the Colon) stops working efficiently, our bodies look for Alternative Channels of Elimination to help with the Toxic Load. If our Bodies use the Skin as an Alternative Channel of Elimination, Conventional Medicine names those Conditions - Hives, Measles, Scarlet Fever, Smallpox, Acne, Pimples, etc. If our Bodies use the Sinuses as an Alternative Channel of Elimination, Conventional Medicine names those Conditions - Colds & Flues or Sinusitis. If our Bodies use the Lungs as an Alternative Channel of Elimination, Conventional Medicine names those Conditions - Bacterial Pneumonia or Viral Pneumonia. And finally, if our Bodies use the Uterus as an Alternative Channel of Elimination, Conventional Medicine names those Conditions - Menstrual Cycles.

The point that has to be emphasized, once again, is that most of these women are still Ovulating and if they are Not, then yes, that is a HUGE problem and is usually caused because their Body Fat% has dropped below 12%.

<<<No different from many other fad diets.>>>

It is not accurate to call the Raw Food Diet a Fad Diet as we evolved for 99% of our existence on this Diet, which just so happens to be the way all other animals have evolved. The idea of any animal having to Cook their Food before they Eat it is absurd and any belief that we need to Cook our Food reeks of Addiction.

<<<But too many people are running into problems long term following a raw diet, if it was as healthy as its promoted to be, people wouldn't be developing serious health problems as a result of following it.>>>

OK, I know we’ve had this conversation many times, but it seems we need to have it once more because our Bodies may have either some form of Temporary Impairment and/or Permanent Damage, so in some cases, we might have to Modify what would be our Ideal Diet either on a Temporary basis or from here on out. Many people will use the argument saying, well, if you have to Supplement, then the Diet is Not Ideal. That’s Not a Logical argument. That would be a Logical argument if we had Not changed the Conditions, but the Conditions have changed and now we do have to consider the long-term use of Inappropriate Foods and how they affect different people living in different regions that Ate different things.

For example, the Norwegians are a perfect example of their Body no longer being able to make a Level 2 Nutrient that everyone should be able to make if they’re healthy. And that’s another Factor - most people aren’t, so now, they have to Supplement.

Oh, the Diet is Not Ideal because we have to Supplement.

No, there’s Temporary Impairment - certain Systems are Not Functioning - certain Hormones and Enzymes are Not being Manufactured and if that’s the case, we might need to Supplement. There is a time and a place to go above and beyond just Correcting Mistakes. Sometimes some Subsequent Causes have to be dealt with.

So the 1st Approach is always Remove the Causes - see what happens, but then, be aware of any Temporary Impairment or Permanent Damage and realize that there may be certain Level 2 Nutrients that some people will not be able to make and that means they’ve got to Modify the Ideal Diet to compensate for their Defects or their Impairment or their Damage.

The point I have made on many occasions is that we do Not live in an Ideal World anymore, but that does Not mean our Ideal Diet is Not our Ideal Diet. What it does mean is that we cannot be Dogmatic and think that some of us might not need to Supplement.

Hey John,

I guess some other worrying issues on a raw diet include why are people becoming emaciated despite eating 3000+ calories and still not being able to maintain their bodyweight and losing muscle mass. This suggests to me some level of malabsorption occuring probably involving protein and i suspect it is a copper induced zinc deficiency that in part causes it. A raw food diet is far too rich in copper and low in zinc to be healthy long term in my opinion. The optimal ratio of zinc to copper is 8:1, the raw vegan diet just about makes it a complete reverse 1:8 ratio, which can cause a number of issues including mental health disorders and adrenal fatigue.

By fad diet i was meaning that overall a 100% raw diet has a very high failure rate as such many won't stick with it long term. I don't even feel supplementation is necessary because these issues are often induced by following a raw diet i.e they weren't occuring before going raw, as such they are usually remedied by just including a wider range of foods.

On the flipside a raw diet has many things going for it and its no wonder many notice benefits at least initially. But on the flipside it is also deficient in a number of key nutrients that you either must supplement with or risk permanent health problems aswell as many other potential issues.

Where are all these long term raw vegans, ones who don't have something to sell including coaching and books etc. I have been on the raw forums for about 5+ years now and even in that time pretty much every vetern raw vegan i have known either now includes cooked or animal foods due to developing health problems from the diet.

I know this post may not be what some people want to hear but i feel the flipside has and should be encouraged to be discussed. Alot of raw forums censor anything bad to do with the diet which can give a rosy impression when you only see the good testimonials and not the bad.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2012 12:51PM by powerlifer.

Hey powerlifer,

<<<I guess some other worrying issues on a raw diet include why are people becoming emaciated despite eating 3000+ calories and still not being able to maintain their bodyweight and losing muscle mass.>>>

Yes, Mal-Absorption is always possible issue, but if you or anyone else is going to make these claims, you’re going to have to show me #1) who you are talking about - show me some before and after Pictures; #2 what they Ate - I need Details and #3) how much they Exercised. No one can make the types of Conclusions you made without having more Details. In contrast, I have Documented everything I’ve Eaten and all of my Exercise for over 26 years. Perhaps that’s why I do NOT look Emaciated after being a Raw Vegan for over 22 years - 5 of which at 90% and 17 years at 100% and I’m Not guessing because I have the Documentation to Prove it.

<<<By fad diet i was meaning that overall a 100% raw diet has a very high failure rate as such many won't stick with it long term.>>>

Damn it!!! I hate when those words have more than one meaning. But nonetheless, just because everyone else is Gliding with the Stream of the Crowd and it’s difficult to Psychologically Break away from the Herd so that “most people can’t stick with it long term” has nothing to do with the Raw Food Diet Not being complete, like all of the other Fad Diets, thereby, implying that Raw Food has No Future. I disagree - Raw Food is an idea whose time has come!!!

<<<I don't even feel supplementation is necessary because these issues are often induced by following a raw diet i.e they weren't occuring before going raw, as such they are usually remedied by just including a wider range of foods.>>>

These Issues occurred because we stopped eating Unnatural Foods that provided Level 2 Nutrients healthy people are supposed to be able to make. Examples include:

1) Norwegian people who can NO longer make DHA so they have to eat Fish or supplement.
2) Other animal products that contain Cholesterol, Taurine and other Level 2 Nutrients that healthy people make and then, if we can’t make them, we need to add them back somehow.

Interestingly, many Deficiencies, like B12 and Iron, for example, have more to do with Mal-Absorption Issues that are due more to Toxicities than Deficiencies. Other Deficiencies, like Glutathione, may seem to have to do with Deficiency Issues, i.e. Taurine, but then, why is there a Taurine Deficiency? Why can’t our Bodies make this Level 2 Nutrient?

Indeed, this is where the Art of Healing comes into play and most people don’t have a good enough understanding of Disease to understand how the Ripple Effect comes with Cause & Effect. In fact, most people think that most Diseases are Outside of our Control, but that is Not True. In reality, most Diseases are Within our Control. I feel this might be where you are coming up short. I still think that you don’t know what Causes Diseases and don’t understand that Diseases are simple part of our Feedback System, which means that WE ARE MAKING MISTAKES and for some of us that’s not knowing how to deal with the Ripple Effect, which, once again, is where the Art of Healing comes into play.

<<<Where are all these long term raw vegans, ones who don't have something to sell including coaching and books etc. I have been on the raw forums for about 5+ years now and even in that time pretty much every vetern raw vegan i have known either now includes cooked or animal foods due to developing health problems from the diet.>>>

I’m one of them - 22 years and going STRONG!!!

NO PROBLEMS!!!

I can still run 100 yards in 10 seconds. Now I know physical strength or endurance is NOT a reliable factor for Health & Longevity, but my vision is 20/20 and I could not say that before I went RAW 22 years ago!!!

Yes, I am a Coach, so to speak, but I prefer to call myself a Wellness Consultant because what I do goes way beyond Raw Food. However, Raw Food is the Biggest Piece of the Puzzle because Cooked Food is the Biggest Mistake we’re making.

<<< I know this post may not be what some people want to hear but i feel the flipside has and should be encouraged to be discussed.>>>

Yes, I agree, I love discussing this topic as I have actually assigned it as a Piece to my Puzzle - it’s Piece #10, which is a Lack of Continuity among those of us who understand how important Raw Food is to our Health, but too many of us want to bicker on the differences and as a result, we have not come up with a Unified Message to the Masses.

…

Once again, we cannot use the argument that if we have to Supplement, then the Diet is Not Ideal. That’s Not a Logical argument, but it would be a Logical argument if we the Conditions had Not Changed!





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2012 03:08PM by John Rose.

I'm enjoying this dialogue. Both of you are coming through with interesting responses and keeping your minds open. That's much appreciated. However...

"I can still run 100 yards in 10 seconds."

--John

LOL. No way!!! Either that's a typo or I challenge you to somehow document that you can run 100 yards that fast. An elite, professional athlete will do the 40 yard dash in 4.5 seconds. That equals 9 seconds over 80 yards. Uhhhh...And when I say "elite" I mean a wide receiver in the NFL, not a weekend warrior who runs a 10K in the mid-30s. John, please don't take this as confrontational on my part. I greatly enjoy your passion. But still, you ain't runnin' no 100 yards in 10 flat or 10 anything.

Hey HH,

I used to run a 4.4 - 40 and broad jumped just over 21 feet in 7th grade as I inherited a ton of fast twitch muscle fibers and I can fly! As a kid I actually felt like everyone around me was Physically Retarded and always wondered why I was on my 3rd or 4th step when everyone was on their first. No one could out run me in the first 40 yards, but by the 5th Grade some of the other athletes were finally able to catch me in 100 yards because they were so much taller and had to take less steps. In college, I ran a 9.8 - 100 and I’m guessing I might even be faster now!!!

Athletically, I’ve never felt this complete ever. I’m still flexible as I’m only about 2-4 inches away from doing a complete splits. I biked about 40 miles a day over the summer and that does not include another 5 to 10 miles of walking. I also do a lot of sprints on my bike in 20 second intervals and I can still kick it to very end! What I find extremely fascinating is that I started throwing the ball for my dog with my non-dominate left arm about 4 years ago and I can’t believe what that’s done for me - I am more coordinated now than I was in my Prime - mid 30s and was a World Class Athlete. This was back when I was averaging over 50 hours of exercise a week and since I did so much stretching, I was also able to keep injury free. I maybe 58 years old now, but I’ll race you any day of the week for any amount of money.

Once again, I inherited a ton of fast twitch muscle fibers. My mother was the fastest woman in Iowa when she was in High School and her dad played for St. Louis. My dad was also very athletic and we both have the same muscular body type. And then, all my siblings are the same. My brother was the State Champion in the Butterfly when he was in High School and later played Golf in College where he took them to Conference for the only time in their existence and he did both years he was there. His son graduated from Princeton and also played on their Golf Team.

It’s all in the genes my friend!!!

Let’s put a few things into perspective as you don’t have to fall apart as you age…

[www.cbsnews.com]
October 11, 2010 5:34 PM
Herschel Walker: Crazy Workout, Crazy Shape at 48
By David W Freeman

…

What does he eat? Not much. According to CNN, he has one meal late in the day. And you can forget about steak and potatoes. He's a vegetarian.
…
[www.cbsnews.com]

[www.cnn.com]
Nearing 50, Renaissance jock Herschel Walker breaks fitness rules
By Madison Park, CNN
October 11, 2010 8:24 a.m. EDT

Herschel Walker's genesis into a Renaissance jock (Olympic bobsledder, Heisman winner) sprang from chubby beginnings.
STORY HIGHLIGHTS
• Herschel Walker, 48, is training for his second mixed martial arts fight, set for December 4
• Former running back: "I'm in better shape than I've ever been in"
• Walker eats once a day and trains 6 to 7 hours in mixed martial arts
• He's also had stints in ballet dancing and Olympic bobsledding
…
"I was in great shape when I was younger," he said. "This is the toughest thing I've ever done. I think that's the reason I'm in better shape than I've ever been in."

…

He eats once a day, skipping breakfast and lunch. After a long, intense day of training, he eats salad and bread for dinner. He doesn't care for meat or fuss about getting enough protein. Walker's a vegetarian.

"It's a mindset -- something I've been doing for a long time," he said. "I don't worry about protein. I don't worry about all that. I'm from old school. I grew up in south Georgia. They didn't worry about cholesterol or protein. They went out and worked and lived a long time, so I don't put a lot of worries in my mind. I just get it done."

Sometimes, Walker doesn't have an appetite and will go through seven hours of wrestling, kickboxing, sparring and practicing jujitsu without having eaten for three or four days.

"It's just unbelievable," said Mendez, who trains Walker at the American Kickboxing Academy in San Jose, California. "He shouldn't be able to do what he's doing. I don't think it's possible to eat as little as possible and work out the way he does. There's no way. He's an unbelievable athlete."
…
[www.cnn.com]

I don't want to race you John. I'm 45 and swam at a national level when I was a kid. I'm guessing that we're on similar diets. I can't currently match the speed I attained in my prime. Maybe it's a matter of motivation, but no, I can't do it. I think that you should have someone time you in the 100, film it, and put it on youtube. That would be a fantastic promotional device for the diet. 58 year old man run 100 yards in 10 flat. I wonder what that would translate to in the 100m.

I'm very well aware of Herschel Walker's claims. Never believed that he goes home after an intense, day-long workout and only eats a bowl of vegetarian soup with salad and bread (the whole loaf maybe?) for his entire daily sustenance. His last MMA fight was in January 2011. That's almost 2 years ago. I'm assuming that age, ego, and poor eating habits caught up to him. I don't doubt that someone can do well as an athlete without meat in their diet, but his claims are ridiculous.