tezcal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> After watching a few of his recent videos, I
> really enjoy tavis' energy. Dsn however doesn't
> seem to be doing too well imo. His skin doesn't
> look radiant and appears to have trouble speaking
> at times. Too much fasting? What do you guys
> think?

Texcal, if you mean Dtm I totally agree with your observation. One of the main reasons I went on the Conductivity Diet was seeing how much it did for Dtm - it was a shocking improvement both in his physical look and his mental clarity, IMO. I hope that what is going on now with him is the result of too much fasting as that should be easy for him stop should he choose to. Time will tell.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For the most part, this is a nice forum but a
> select group of individuals have the ability to
> quickly turn this place into a joke. I have no
> interest in back and forth nonsense - quite
> frankly never did but still engaged in my fair
> share. So much dogma, misinformation,
> close-mindedness, ego, etc. If people want to
> believe super foods are fake or ineffective or not
> proven, that you must be low-fat high fruit, etc.,
> so be it. Forgive me but I couldn't care less
> about the opinions of those who think a 2,000+
> year old medicine system which has healed
> countless individuals from all kinds of disease,
> is worthless. The longevity, scientific research,
> and testimonials align with each other and the
> conclusion is enormous health benefits.

Exactly which 2000+ year old medicine system which
has healed countless individuals from all kinds of
disease require superfoods to be rendered effective?

Were these people paying $34 for 80g of blue-green
algae from the US State of Oregon? Did this heal
"all kinds of disease" to the exclusion of any other
foods or activities?

I am skeptical but please provide substantial evidence
to the contrary.

SueZ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have posted this delicious recipe of Tavis'
> before. I am posting it again for those who
> haven't tried it yet and are really interested in
> understanding how far along Tavis actually is in
> his understanding of food as medicine. This dish
> will afford you a good idea of that if you give it
> a try.
>
> [www.youtube.com]

Has anyone here been brave enough to try this dish yet? It makes for a truly amazing detox in my experience - every time I have it.

Tavis' Conductivity Diet is not a walk in the park, I'll tell you that much. It can get very intense.

"
Exactly which 2000+ year old medicine system which
has healed countless individuals from all kinds of
disease require superfoods to be rendered effective?"

On top of all the studies you can find unlimited testimonials.

On top of all the studies

Do you mean studies on the neurotoxins they contain, like these?

Food Chem Toxicol. 2009 Sep;47(9):2189-95. Epub 2009 Jun 9.First detection of anatoxin-a in human and animal dietary supplements containing cyanobacteria.Rellán S, Osswald J, Saker M, Gago-Martinez A, Vasconcelos V.

Pablo J, Banack SA, Cox PA, Johnson TE, Papapetropoulos S, Bradley WG, Buck A, Mash DC. Cyanobacterial neurotoxin BMAA in ALS and Alzheimer's disease. Acta Neurol Scand. 2009 Oct;120(4):216-25. Epub 2009 Feb 26.

you can find unlimited testimonials.

Anecdotes are not data.

arugula wrote:
"I have a couple of STEM degrees and enjoy current employment at a respected University. In addition, I have read over several thousand papers. I have sufficient background in statistics, mathematics, biology, chemistry, photobiology, biochemistry, and nutrition."

Thanks for describing your problem. With all that left brain knowledge gathering you missed out on the most important education, being in nature/LIFE. That's where most diets fail, without the constant influence and bathing in the forces of LIFE, namely Sun, Air, Water and Earth, you can't really achieve health...

NuNativs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Thanks for describing your problem. With all that
> left brain knowledge gathering you missed out on
> the most important education, being in
> nature/LIFE. That's where most diets fail, without
> the constant influence and bathing in the forces
> of LIFE, namely Sun, Air, Water and Earth, you
> can't really achieve health...

You first state that I have a "problem." What problem
is that? I have zero health conditions and am regularly
mistaken for a person decades younger. I love my profession
and excel at it.

You secondly state that I am missing out on being in
nature/LIFE. I walk to work or ride my bicycle, my
backyard is a creekside paradise filled with native
shrubs, trees, flowers, and grasses and a variety of
wild animals. I am in a position to enjoy nature many
hours per day.

What would provoke you to write such unsubstantiated nonsense?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2015 03:31PM by arugula.

Arugula, I enjoy learning what you have to say, especially with regards to CR, so I want to ask you an honest question: if youre so intelligent, which I do believe you are, have read enough studies to figure it out, have a nice job and degrees and such, what do you get out of spending so much time on a mostly anonymous public web forum arguing with those you percieve beneath you about a diet you don't even follow (raw food)?


Seems like it would be akin to a professional basketball player going to a high school court, dunking on everyone and then proceeding to tell them how much they suck, what they're doing wrong, etc. If lebron did this most people would think he was one of John's favorite psychopaths

Tez, believe it or not sometimes I get something out of this forum. I like seeing the pics, seeing what people are eating and getting new ideas, I like reading what a few people have to say.

But I have to admit that much of it distresses me, and I probably won't stick around for long.

I think that some people are being taken advantage of, and some people are doing very strange things in the name of "health."

My coworkers do not do crazy things with regards to their diets, but they are all slender, vibrant, engrossed in their work, energetic profoundly productive, and many of them stay on well past the age of retirement. A few of them are also marathon runners or musicians.

I do not believe that nature alone holds the key. One also must have a purpose. I also believe that it is important to develop the mind as well as the body.

arugula wrote:
"What would provoke you to write such unsubstantiated nonsense?"

It's hardly nonsense, but it's like trying to communicate with my father who spent his entire Life working in the educational system and believed without an "education", you're nothing.

I was living on a remote piece of land my grandfather owned, growing my own food, being in the WILDerness, and one day he said to me, "You're running from society out here". I replied, "No dad, I'm facing LIFE".

"I do not believe that nature alone holds the key. One also must have a purpose. I also believe that it is important to develop the mind as well as the body."

The problem is, is that WE have a collective purpose of manifesting Paradise on Earth, and as long as WE fracture OURselves into little boxes away from Sunlight/Nature, there is little chance of that happening. Of course WE are paying the price and it's called Fox News...(Dodge the bullets)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2015 04:12PM by NuNativs.

"Do you mean studies on the neurotoxins they contain, like these?"

I'm well aware of those studies - that is the result of what happens when you test low-quality, untested products - the opposite of E3 Live. E3 Live tests every single batch for all sorts of contaminants.

In regards to Traditional Chinese Medicine, many of their top herbs are considered super foods - such as reishi, goji, he shou wu, astragalus, etc. Obviously you do not need super foods in order to be healthy, but they can take your health to another level - stronger immune system, improved cognitive functioning, more energy, and of course, healing all sorts of diseases. Now you may think the hundreds or thousands of studies done of these herbal remedies doesn't mean anything - and I beg to differ - as would many, including David Wolfe who has a PhD in Nutrition. But it's not just the scientific evidence, it's also the anecdotal evidence from thousands of individuals.

"Anecdotes are not data."

When thousands of people report similar results from the same herbs - yes, it is. Life doesn't revolve around science experiments. Many Universities still teach outdated information, misinformation, or leave out extremely important information. Vanity doesn't prove anything.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2015 04:43PM by jtprindl.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> and I beg
> to differ - as would many, including David Wolfe
> who has a PhD in Nutrition.

[bodymindinstitute.com]

Quote

David “Avocado” Wolfe

~ Health, Eco, Nutrition, and Natural Beauty Expert ~ David is a total rock star of the superfoods and longevity world, is trusted by America’s TOP CEOs, Global Ambassadors, Hollywood celebrities, busy professionals, and even the most powerful buying influence in the nation… the Moms!

Educational Background:

Masters Degree of Nutrition from The University of Integrated Sciences
Juris Doctor in Law from The University of San Diego (JD) (1998)
Environmental and Mechanical Engineering from UC Santa Barbara (BS) (1993)
Political Science from UC Santa Barbara (BA) (1993)
President of the Environmental Law Society at The University of San Diego (1998)

ja ja [www.uisca.org]

arugula, I would advice not to waste your time arguing. They live here. I do welcome your opinions and hope a few don't throw you out of here. It is tough to be around certain people as they can be delusional. From their delusions, they blame you and tell you you don't know evertything. They do.


Peace



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2015 05:57PM by Panchito.

Yes I was mistaken he has a Masters degree instead of a PhD - doesn't diminish my point, though.


"It is tough to be around certain people as they can be delusional. From their delusions, they blame you and tell you you don't know evertything. They do."


Lol haven't heard that one before... I truly believe you have convinced yourself that you are knowledgeable in regards to health and nutrition and that anything contrary to your beliefs is delusional regardless of the evidence. The irony. You'd probably learn something every once in a while if you weren't so busy calling professionals idiots and making fun of the way others look like a kindergartener.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2015 06:30PM by jtprindl.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes I was mistaken he has a Masters degree instead
> of a PhD - doesn't diminish my point, though.

it does matter if the "university" is not accredited by a recognized agency because the degrees, like master in this case, should not be regarded as equivalent to those from accredited universities. The granting institution is where the value of recognition comes from. so, a master in nutrition may actually be worthless if the university is not recognized by anybody.

The point is that David Wolfe is anything but a scientist. So using his name as scientific proof of studies or whatever is a deceptive bad choice.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2015 07:09PM by Panchito.

Tezca wrote:
Seems like it would be akin to a professional basketball player going to a high school court, dunking on everyone and then proceeding to tell them how much they suck, what they're doing wrong, etc. If lebron did this most people would think he was one of John's favorite psychopaths

Tai:
WHen you are trying to improve, it is a blessing if someone wiser can point out your shortcomings. In this alternative food arena, the "specialists" love to charge a minimum of $100/hour on up to $500/hour. So, if someone well educated is willing to share their wisdom on a raw food forum for FREE, the best approach is to thank them. This isn't a game nor is it a competition. Sometimes, the specialist might make what seems like cutting remarks, in an effort to save time, because they may not have the time to dress up their speech in comforting words. That is okay. If people can't accept that, then that might push the specialist away, which is everyone's loss.

I for one, have a bunch of questions for Arugula and I am willing to offer something in return. When you see a clear crystal lying on the ground, you don't just kick it to the side or step on it. You wash it off, wrap it up in a fine cloth and put it somewhere safe, where it won't get scratched.

I enjoy reading Arugula's posts and hope she won't let herself be intimidated by the Alliance and leave.

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jtprindl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yes I was mistaken he has a Masters degree
> instead
> > of a PhD - doesn't diminish my point, though.
>
> it does matter if the "university" is not
> accredited by a recognized agency because the
> degrees, like master in this case, should not be
> regarded as equivalent to those from accredited
> universities. The granting institution is where
> the value of recognition comes from. so, a master
> in nutrition may actually be worthless if the
> university is not recognized by anybody.
>
> The point is that David Wolfe is anything but a
> scientist. So using his name as scientific proof
> of studies or whatever is a deceptive bad choice.


Not at all - not being accredited by a "recognized agency" in no way means a lower quality of education and certainly wouldn't make it worthless.


From their website:

'The idea of centralized government control over higher education in the United States was rejected in favor of a system of voluntary regional accreditation organizations. Membership in any one of the several U.S. regional accrediting associations is strictly voluntary. These regional accrediting associations are privately owned and operated. In other words, they are not owned or operated by the U.S. Government or the U.S. Department of Education.

At this time, recognized regional accrediting organizations only accept member instuitions that are dedicated to traditional education requiring residency and classroom attendance. Therefore, UISCA cannot be considered as a member. UISCA does not seek membership because it is dedicated to educating a global community and providing online education to many who cannot afford to travel or maintain residency for classroom instruction.'

Anon 102 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I enjoy reading Arugula's posts and hope she won't
> let herself be intimidated by the Alliance and
> leave.


Why do you have two accounts?

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Membership in any one
> of the several U.S. regional accrediting
> associations is strictly voluntary. These regional
> accrediting associations are privately owned and
> operated. In other words, they are not owned or
> operated by the U.S. Government or the U.S.
> Department of Education.

That should read "memebership applications" are voluntary. That means, any university can apply but the agencies have the right to reject them if they don't meet the minimum requirenments/qualifications, which may not be easy to get.

> At this time, recognized regional accrediting
> organizations only accept member instuitions that
> are dedicated to traditional education requiring
> residency and classroom attendance. Therefore,
> UISCA cannot be considered as a member. UISCA does
> not seek membership because it is dedicated to
> educating a global community and providing online
> education to many who cannot afford to travel or
> maintain residency for classroom instruction.'

Thank you. Translation: they are not accredited by anybody no matter how they paint it.

David's Wold master degree is only recognized by the very same granting "university." It is not recognized anywhere else and cannot be used as comparison of knowledge, specially scientific knowledge. That makes your previous quote very weak and useless.

Quote

Now you may think the hundreds or thousands of studies done of these herbal remedies doesn't mean anything - and I beg to differ - as would many, including David Wolfe who has a PhD in Nutrition. But it's not just the scientific evidence, it's also the anecdotal evidence from thousands of individuals.

The point was that there are many well-respected people who acknowledge the health benefits of Traditional Chinese Medicine, including many MD's, such as Gabriel Cousens.

[www.cousensschoolofholisticwellness.org] - "Dr. Cousens blends nutrition, naturopathy, Ayurveda, traditional Chinese medicine, homeopathy, and spiritual awareness for the healing of body, mind, and spirit."

Arugula says that she has done so much collegiate work so she knows all these studies on super foods and TCM herbs are bogus. That's not an argument - it's an appeal to authority fallacy. There are people with far more experience than her who say the opposite.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anon 102 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I enjoy reading Arugula's posts and hope she
> won't
> > let herself be intimidated by the Alliance and
> > leave.
>
>
> Why do you have two accounts?



What accounts are you referring to?

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Arugula says that she has done so much collegiate
> work so she knows all these studies on super foods
> and TCM herbs are bogus. That's not an argument -
> it's an appeal to authority fallacy. There are
> people with far more experience than her who say
> the opposite.


They have an opinion like we all do. They don't agree about the coconut chia idea l promote and various things, so what! We are not going to agree on everything and l am certainly not going to argue about it. None of us are going to be right on everything, and that includes Arugula...they are just another person trying to find their way like we all are.

People tell me all the time that sprouts are unhealthy and toxic and that people pushing chlorella and algaes are just doing it for the money. Who cares!!!

We can all co-exist without having to butt heads. I read some things here that make my head spin, but l am not usually going to enter into a debate about it because l have better things to do than argue.

I make a rule of trying to not convince anyone of anything, l just put my info out and let people do their own thing.

jtprindl, l was like you when l was your age, l was keen and wanted to tell everyone how to do things better, but it never works that way. Humans are designed in this life to live their own path. We can promote raw veganism, but most people will still choose to eat SAD. Let people do their own thing and think their own thing, but work with people who are open to your thinking. Your quality of life willimprove. Tai said a similar thing earlier about all of this.

www.thesproutarian.com

tai, i see what you're saying. and i am by no means trying to criticize, it just seems as though the past few days arguments between arugula and other members have spilled into various threads over disagreements that both parties are never going to agree on. i personally don't see the point. its one thing to point out shortcomings, its another to just argue seemingly for the sake of doing so.


i do want to know more about calorie restriction, especially with regards to exercise. i was always taught that one needs consume more calories when doing most forms of exercise, and i also know exercise is great for humans, so how does one bridge the two?i definitely don't know. for instance, even brendan brazier who consumes a plant based, mostly raw diet still consume something between 2,500 to 3,000 calories on training days. is this unhealthy?

jtprindl: just one last point....non algae believers ask what is in algaes that isn't in land foods. It looks like there are various things as discussed in the literature that are in algaes that induce unique enzymatic reactions in the body that land foods don't seem to do, but l am not going to bother to bring up all the studies and try to convince the non algae believers because wisdom tells me they will still be skeptical. I will talk about algae and post studies for those who are interested in it, l will not talk about algaes and try to convince N.H types because it is a waste of energy.

I believe Brian Clement when he says that some water based plants develop certain things that are not in land foods because l have read the studies about the unique things in water based foods, and l believe him when he says the following from clinical experience at HHI:

level 1 = fruit and vegetables
level 2 = sprouts
level 3 = sprouts and seaweeds
level 4 = sprouts, seaweeds, spirulina
level 5 = sprouts, seaweeds, chlorella
level 6 = sprouts, seaweeds, chlorella, E3 live etc etc


BUT, not everyone is going to believe this, nor have people experimented over the years with this concept and experienced it themselves. Many will just say that Brian has an agenda to sell pills and powder. So what, it doesn't mean they are right whwn they say the above statements are all rubbish, they are only expressing an opinion.

People are never going to convice me that fruits and vegetables will ever touch a sprout based diet with seaweeds and algae top ups because my experience shows directly the opposite, and other people who try this diet over a period of time agree with me, but the N.H types will always think it is crazy. I say, let them stay in the fruit and veggie world and l will stay in the sprout and algae world.

I agree, TSM, thanks to you as well for taking the time to post - you're right. Arguing truly is a waste of time, no point in talking nonsense, I plan to not engage in it anymore.

The Sproutarian Man Wrote:

> I believe Brian Clement when he says that some
> water based plants develop certain things that are
> not in land foods because l have read the studies
> about the unique things in water based foods, and
> l believe him when he says the following from
> clinical experience at HHI:
>
> level 1 = fruit and vegetables
> level 2 = sprouts
> level 3 = sprouts and seaweeds
> level 4 = sprouts, seaweeds, spirulina
> level 5 = sprouts, seaweeds, chlorella
> level 6 = sprouts, seaweeds, chlorella, E3 live
> etc etc
>
>
> BUT, not everyone is going to believe this,

I do not believe this.

I do believe the evidence points to copious quantities of a wide variety of genetically diverse fruits, vegetables, and to a lesser extent, sprouts can provide profound benefits in the context of a balanced diet. By balanced, I mean no deficiencies are present and energy balance is as desired.

There is significantly less evidence for sea vegetables and cyanobacteria.

Maybe someday they will be shown to be more beneficial than harmful, but the literature suggests that the most profound benefit at this point in time is to the seller's wallet.

I think a lot of people want magic. I'd like some, myself! But there is no way on this planet, at this point in time, that a bunch of expensive supplements devoid of fiber, highly processed, etc. could in any way mimic the plethora of incontrovertible evidence that a whole foods plant-base, unprocessed diet provides. Don't take it personally if you do not agree.

Brian Clement bases this idea on how fast it has helped people heal from disease [on average] when he has observed over 100,000 people. He says people heal faster on a sprout diet over a fruit and vegetable diet, and says when algaes are added people heal faster than just a plain sprout diet. We are only talking about very unwell people in this case.

Brian has a fake degree and a history of hyperbolicism. I don't trust what he says. He isn't in a position to make his claims legitimate and I doubt that anyone who could would be willing.

Furhman has an actual MD degree and a solid diet plan but his fudging of the data totally turned off Dr. Campbell. It turned me off, too.

But that is not to say that Clement hasn't helped people. I do believe that some people have benefited from studying under him.

If his people are doing his thing instead of SAD, yes, I would expect his people to do better. But in that case, I think the healing comes from eliminating bad things rather than including "super-good" supplement-type things.

Good diets have basically two components.

1. eliminate bad things
2. include good things.

A great deal of progress can be made from 1. alone. 2 is trickier. How you or I or anyone for that matter defines good is likely to be very different. I am less inclined to consider input from a raw food "guru" when making that distinction. I have no profit motive but most of them do.

My personal experience is that the cleansing and elimination of the bad from our system is the first requirement, and next is the eating of living, fresh food such micro greens, sprouts, grasses, and others.

Maybe seaweeds and other super foods are important but in my own experience not having them did not make a difference but a big difference is felt when the first two requirements are not there: cleansing and living foods.

I have been trying to order online seaweeds and other super foods for months but it seems like it is not necessary and I am doing better each day by sticking to a simple diet of living foods with some fermented foods. The magic is in the living foods. It makes sense now to me that the cow can live on living grasses alone. no seaweeds.

Cows and sheep that live seaside do wander down to the shores to graze on seaweeds.

North Ronaldsdale sheep live almost exclusively on seaweed.