After my four o'clock in the afternoon juice, I had no other liquids - since I'd had about two litres by then, I felt it was fine not to have any more fluid.

It sounds as if the apple, carrot, and pear are not necessarily feeding your candida, so I think you can continue. But don't worry so much about having large amounts of juice - just try to "sneak in" as much green juice in your mixtures as you can. You can have as little or as much juice as you want. You can have some of your liquid intake be water (not tap and not high-mineral) and herb teas without caffeine!

I would say that the lethargy you are feeling is not candida but a normal reaction to being without the stimulation you are used to. Part of detoxing from caffeine, and if you eat any salt or spices or sugar, that is all artificial stimulation, too. The body is adjusting. Also, you are dumping truckloads of toxins into the bloodstream as you detox and they are on their way out of the system - if you think of it that way, it is axiomatic that you would feel pretty awful, and it helps you be more understanding with your body for feeling that way. It makes sense. So it helps to remember all those toxins being dumped there, and then you won't get impatient and angry and frustrated with your body for feeling that way.

You know, you might read some of the testimonials on fasting.com - the person who runs it is one of the worst people I have ever come across and I would never recommend that you have anything to do with him, but it might help you to read the many, many tales of other people's experience juice fasting - most of them went into it from standard awful eating and usually addictions, too, cigarettes, chocolate, coffee, cocaine, etc.

ok i'll check that out
one more thing have any of you tried colon cleansing? i guess that is how i ended up back on this board by checking out people's thoughts about colonix (i decided it was too expensive for me) i'd be interested to know if you think it's important/necessary?
amazing how this board is helping me not to pick up that first banana!!
cheers to you all

See if you can have two ounces of pure green in every glass - that is, each glass should have at least a fourth of it be pure green. Have at least 4 such glasses a day so you get at least a half-pint (quarter of a litre) pure green a day - if you can do more, that is great. The other 6 ounces of a glass (the other three-fourths) could be lemon, water, fruits, and/or carrot. The first idea of the fast is to alkalize, greenify, but if that is too difficult to focus on, let it just be about giving your digestive system a rest from solid foods you have to chew; and if that is too difficult, let it be about kicking whatever addictive toxic substances (caffeine, sugar, salt, grains) you still may be using. That way, you can make the whole 10 days count, even if it isn't the fast that you were thinking last week (before you started!) you might do.

You could more effectively use it to just start 100% raw, than do a fast that ends in a cooked binge. But take a look at those testimonials at fasting.com - I think they will inspire you to see that people often go into fasts from toxic overload and the first days are tough.

Yes, I have done a lot of colon cleansing, both colonics and herbal cleanses. I like the idea, but in practice it has never worked for me.

I think that committing to raw vegan and figuring out how you are really going to really do that all the time is more important than colon cleansing. Once the body is raw vegan for a while, it will give you its own signals that it may feel like colon cleansing. Colonics don't really work and they don't really address systemic candida; and for right now I think an herbal cleanse is too harsh for you. Greens do a lot of natural colon-cleansing.

I'm jaded because I have spent thousands on colon cleanse programs and colonics and it has not "delivered" for me. They say it changes the eating habits after, but I have not found that to be true. However, your body is different from mine and you say you feel good about your psyllium.

In principle it is important, but if you have overeating issues, I think it is important not to be sidetracked by colon cleansing and the promises thereof - a clean colon is essential for health, feeling good, looking good, energy and so on, but I would establish a sure foothold in a healthy dietary _first_ and I would not say from my own experience that colon cleansing makes that easier. However, you can check curezone.com for opinions and inspiration on what has worked for others, many of whom are not raw vegan and may not be currently interested in being so.

Getting green inside, having lots of chlorophyll, will help cleanse the colon, among other things. That is part of what makes it alkalizing - its power to clean the colon of acidic wastes.

Anatomy of a near-breakdown: I had a lot to do and finally went to make first juice of the day at almost noon. I was peeved about this cough-sore throat thing. I never get these things and I'd decided it was not a lovely detox thing, which I would have basked in and enjoyed however horrible, but just "noise" from low immunity and a stressful trip and a crowded club (I never used to believe in germ theory - let's just say the terrain is everything). So I was irritable. I yelled at the broccoli, the juicer, the knife. I considered bingeing just to knock the stupid rundown cough out of my system - stimulate it to death. I planned how to binge, and what I'd do to atone for it. Organic produce delivery on the doorstep - four huge boxes incredibly heavy stacked by the door. I hated it. The thought of unpacking, the storage, the waste - this place I'm staying in has almost zero refrigerator room. I was fed up with juicing. I longed to go back to my neat, easy, simple grass powders. I didn't care about live enzymes. I thought, "if green juice is so great, why didn't it boost my immune system so I didn't get this cough? Why hasn't it knocked this cough out of me all these days I've been drinking gallons of green juice? If it's so great, why don't I feel great? Why am I sicker than usual? Huh? Huh?" - so you start thinking like that so you can binge. Suddenly I just felt, whatever happens, I am keeping raw. I am sick of the cooked-raw rollercoaster. Cooked never has done any good or gotten me anywhere. If I binge, I will just binge on bananas and hemp oil and raw things I usually forbid myself. No, I am THROUGH with cooked. No more. I can't stand any more of cooked." How many many many times do you have to binge on cooked before you just get FED UP with being fed up with it? Does it ever happen? Do you reach a breaking point where it's just, no. No more of this. I don't want to do cooked ever. That's it - that was it, goodbye. It's been goodbye, that's the last of it." And it's a good feeling and you just figure out what you are going to stuff yourself with that is raw.

I thought, I'll eat all this broccoli overflowing every room in the house with hemp oil and dulse flakes. That'll be a binge. I'll be stuffed.

Of course, it wasn't very enticing, so I decided to just make juice and keep juicing one more day. I made about a quart of heavily green parsley-kale-green pepper-celery-broccoli juice with lots of lemons, one tiny parsnip, a clove of garlic, a beet, and a little carrot. I decided on the carrot because I figured I would be bingeing later on bananas anyway. But now I don't feel like bingeing.

I still feel pretty peeved, though.

And my scalp itches!

well done!! total fair play to you captain!!!

Hello Peach.

Everybody has been sick here and I think I've finally caught it. With a big ol' sick catching net.

L-V, How are you doing? We seem to have worked out to be quite a crew to sail with. The quote was from E.B. White. I'm glad you liked it.

carrie

thanks for the e.b. white
notification
though can't remember what else e.b. wrote
was it "charlottes web?"
or was it the story about the boy and the trumpet swan?
i get mixed up

yer doing really well
considering the stressful atmosphere that you have been contending with
give yourself a lot of credit
and the peach will be a blanket
that will cover you
when you feel like crying

debbie

i finally looked up the word "purser"
cuz that's what the Captain called you
and looks like you have QUITE a role to fill

wowzers!!
i'm glad i'm not the purser
keep up the good work on your juice paradise sipping

Captain:

broccoli binge?
ha ha ha.. that's a new one
although
i think i actually DID go on a broccoli binge on christmas
i won't go into details
but ..yes.. stranger things have occurred

have you thought of warming up some water
and putting some lemon in it and taking sips?
lemon always helps me when throat feels scratchety

wow.. i can't believe u tolerated 5? smokers in a car? for HOW many hours?
whoooooooooaaaaahHHHH

i would never have done that
then sopping rain?

wow... u must be pursuing Helen of Troy
to put up with such extreme conditions

and yer going to subject yourself to such colorful conditions, AGAIN?

hmmmmm...

well.... WELL!

all i can say is : just invite us to your wedding
i can't imagine a guy going through all that unless he is as serious as a
broccoli celery juice garnished with parsley

sally forth peachsonians!!

i almost had a mini emotional breakdown this afternoon
but it was quelled before it could even began
i don't know how or why
there was some intercession going on
must have been one of u watching over me

thanks mateys
you R the best!est

i just stuck to drinking my water lemon
having a pattern drinking water in the day
and greens at night

don't ask me why
no reason or rhyme

but then again
that's the way i likeeee itt!

Yes, I too think my mateys must be watching over me, as it's been a very rough day and I have had waves of great despondency and sadness, but I have yet to binge. If I do, it will be a broccoli binge, or an avocado binge - not anything worse, and for that I have only my mateys to thank.

Since breakfast pitcher, I have had no further juice, just lemon and water as per the admiral's suggestion.

It feels good, in the midst of the pain, knowing that tomorrow morning I won't wake up suicidal after some awful vegan-chili binge wondering how I could have done it. One thing that helps is I just know my body will feel disgusting - so toxic - and it won't make me happy. It'd just be something I did out of misery and conflict and anger, to "act out". Well, I can "act out" with a particularly garlicy green juice or something.

Cap' Celery Crunch,


<<Well, I can "act out" with a particularly garlicy green juice or something.>>

hmmmmmm... you're giving me a GREAT idea
acting out with green juice?

that sounds VERY tempting
hee hee

just remember
all caterpillars "break down" before they molt out of their silken cocoon
GREENPEACH is our silken cocoon

the fibers of the peach
look like little silken microtubules ( well, if u got an electron microscope)
and the sharks like it enough

let's keep it afloat

oh yeah,
i resign my post as admiral ( 'admiral" sounds too "stuffy" and plus i don't even know what an admiral does (barely) anything that sounds like "work"... well... i run the other way...sooooooOOOOOO

i'm just gonna be "generic peachsonian"
is that cool mateys?



Mateys

let's tap dance our way to breathtaking day 4
i see an incredible glacier in sight
good thing we're on a peach
we can look
but not crash

hi guys
have to report a pretty yukky and freaky experience i had last night (sorry to be blunt here!) anyway i gave myself a small enema last night to try to get rid of headache, had one bowel movement after and then later on had another small one and it was like 2 globs of bright red mucous, looked suspiciously like blood to me, i've never had anything like that before. since then i have also had my lower left abdominal pain lurking about.
on the fasting front, all went well but i did blend an avocado in with my green juice last night and because i'd put garlic in it had mad craving for something sweet so gave in and sucked on 3 dried apricots.
i'm off for my first juice. hope your feeling better carrie and captain, i actually feel like @#$%&! heahaches and achy, but since last nnights experience in the toilet i actually feel more motivated to continue.

one more thing while we're onthe subject (sorry for the breakfast reading!) on the curezone.com a person had posted pictures of her candida that she'd expelled, stringy stuff, is it really like that? i kind of thought it was microscopic.

Sounds as if you are doing simply splendidly, Purser. Enemas and colonics can be tremendously inspiring. Don't mind telling us the @#$%& scoop - I should think most raw-foodists are used to such things. I know I am not squeamish about it in the least.

I suppose I must have thought candida was microscopic - in itself - but what we see are colonies - millions of them in a community. That's stringy stuff in urine, bowels, or enema water that's come out. If you do the Spit Test, it's also the stringy stuff hanging down in a glass. It's not just one thing - they _colonize_ (no pun intended).

I think it's really valuable when LV reminds us about the caterpillar hurting in his cocoon right before the dawn. It's generally said that on a fast highs of euphoria and clarity are preceded by lows and this is because you are first swamped by toxins and then feel so much better when they are out - as you progress, the cleaning goes deeper so that more layers are worked on, so the darkness-butterfly cycle can occur a few times in a fast.

I feel too weirded out by this cold thing or whatever it is. No way is it a detox episode. Now it's lasted over a week. I like things to have meaning and purpose, significance. As detox, this cold would be great, part of metamorphosis. As just a rundown-immunity, stinky-terrain cold, it messes with my brain and orientation. I've lost my identity and my way. But I cling to gjf and hope that all works out in some way. Sometimes you just have to cling and force yourself to have faith. Even when nothing is speaking to you and nothing makes sense.

I don't know. I am very glad I hung in there, though.

Actually, LV, the admiral just sits in the hemp-tencel chaise lounge and issues orders drinking Greenya-Colada, but apologies if you want to lose rank. We'll strip you of your brass, but you still own the ship-peach.

Watch out for dried apricots if you got them at a store and they are not organic - they are probably not "raw food" (they've been heated too high to maintain enzymes) and are probably sulfurized and maybe even dyed, depending on where you got them. But sucking on stuff is a good idea.

Purser, it sounds to me as if you are a perfect example of the fasting rule that the worse you feel fasting, the more you need to be doing it!

Remember that it is not lack of solids itself making you feel like @#$%&, it is the toxins that the break from solids is releasing that are making you feel that way. Releasing toxins is good - ha ha!

thanks once again for more encouraging words, if it wasnt for your advice i would have jumped ship on the first day!
you know, about your cold, i don't know about over there but here the winter has been so mild that loads of people (me included, in fact just about everyone) are constantly getting colds coughs etc more so than usual. we reckon it's because there hasnt been a cold snap to 'kill off all the bugs'. could it not be that with you maybe? maybe you shouldn't give yourself such a hard time figuring out why you've got it; accept you've got it then maybe it will just clear up in it's own time. maybe the whole time your fighting it is just giving it more strength to carry on??? just some thoughts....!

Hmm...yes. Interesting.

These warm "global warming" winters we're all having - it would be cool if the upshot is that "bugs" don't get killed off and they get so mighty and powerful that they kill all the people who caused global warming in the first place - if the tsunamis, floods, and ice-caps melting don't drown them first.

But it is heartening, what you say. Should I "make friends with" my "cold"? Offer it some green pepper-lemon-celery-broccoli juice? Just had some (it is eight in the morning here). Continue to feel peeved. We feel things more because the food isn't insulating us, and feeling our feelings is the prerequisite to changing what is wrong in our lives. That's why fasting, going raw, etc. is so scary.

White may well have written a book about a swan, I think so but don't entirely remember; his books "for children" include _Stuart Little_ and _Charlotte's Web_.

is it a good idea to take anti candida supplements? i've just been reading up on candida and feel pretty convinced that it is the problem

and one more thing i thought it was generally assumed that fruit was really bad for candida, but i've read loads of stuff on this board that says that it is actually fats that cause candida? what do you reckon about that?

I had candida as cooked food person, never, ever as fruitarian.

coconut cream, do you eat seeds etc and green stuff? or just fruit?

Some people say their candida has gone away once they went raw or once they went fruitarian. Mine got worse as a fruitarian. I took diagnostic stool analyses recently before and after re-going fruitarian, and the yeast loved all that fresh, organic, water-rich fruit I was eating.

Purser, there will be people saying one way and people saying another. The unpleasant fast is that each of us must experiment with her or his own body. However, one thing is for sure: candida cannot thrive in an alkaline inner terrain. So get your pH tested - buy some cheap strips (they are called pH strips as you may have to order them through mail - check the pharmacies there) and dip them into your saliva, and get a reading. That way you can keep track of how alkaline you are getting. Candida will thrive in an acidic pH environment.

Read articles on Rhio's site - rawfoodinfo.com - where she mentions low-fruit for candidiasis.

Fruitarianism has exacerbated my candidiasis. You can call healthforce.net's phone number (they are about 9 hours behind you) and ask about their candida protocol - involving olive leaf and oxygen supplement but not worrying about whether or not you eat fruit.

In my opinion and experience, candida is very deadly, even on raw/fruit, and I have developed a phobia about it! I recommend reading ninjagreens.com - the articles on Healthy Eating.

The bottom line is you will have to see for yourself. Maybe you should forget about fasting right now and implement a program of 3 months low-sugar eating (raw vegan, of course) - see how you feel. A lot of people start feeling better, less candida-y after 2 weeks. After 6 weeks you should know if it's helping - during that time you can be taking the supplements. Then if you were not happy and feeling better, you could switch to 3 months of high-fruit, high-green liquid. As an ex-fruitarian I am afraid I can't recommend fruitarianism, much as I'd like to - check out rawfoodinfo.com article about Cautions - scary reading. Ignore Tom Billings, everyone knows he is an asswipe.

By the way, there is only one person asserting that "fats cause candidiasis", and that is Graham. His science is faulty, and his assertions that "candida overgrowth goes away after a few days fruitarian" is a lie. What does that possibly mean? Has he tested candida levels and done blood cell analysis in people with candidiasis before and after a few days fruit-eating? (I have.) If so, how many?

Lying is not just saying things that one positively knows to be false; it is to say things that one does not know enough to be able to assert as true. So don't listen to just one person (Graham) and what only he says - or just one person (Young) and what only he says, as many Alkalarians do. Don't listen to me. I think you can assume very safely that you have candidiasis. If you really believe that fat causes it and it really makes sense to you, try 3 months of fruitarianism and then test yourself again. Just read as much as you can about the other side - that candidiasis is "caused" by an acidic terrain. Yes, it gets very confusing, so you have to decide what makes the most sense to you and try it. Judging these things with your foot still in cooked land is really impossible (I speak for myself) so do what you have to do to stay raw vegan. Remember to watch out for "raw" dried fruits - no anti-candida protocol, Graham-based or otherwise, uses them regularly.

One thing I have difficulty with is that as candida in fact dies off, your symptoms can flare up. It takes one hundred per cent. faith in Grahamism, I should think, to be able to try to make the candida die off and eat high fruit at the same time. Every time I bloated or farted or had a scalp itch, I'd be driving myself crazy wondering whether it was die-off or that I was feeding them yum sugar. Know what I mean? So if you have any doubts whatsoever about the idea that candida doesn't thrive on fruit sugar, I have to say you will be tormenting yourself trying to tame candida by eating high fruit. I think it would be agonizing and lead to waffling and bingeing. If you go alkaline-eating and low-sugar for a while, at least you will have the comfort of knowing that candida-ish symptoms have got to be die-off. At least, that is what I tell myself.

If you want to try getting rid of candidiasis by eating high fruit in a raw vegan context, just make absolutely sure you are absolutely sure it is the right way to do it, or you will drive yourself insane (like me!). Unfortunately (or fortunately), many of us cannot believe absolutely in something just because Graham (or Cousens or whoever) tells us we can.

I am so sorry I can't be more helpful. Keeping as green and alkaline as possible whatever you do is the only fail-safe - that will help you to keep raw vegan whatever you do and the two together will give you a safe dock from which to try additional things - anti-candida supplements, high-fruit, "Phase 1", whatever.

yes thanks, i do actually agree with you about eating low fruit. in fact i hadn't been eating very much fruit at all until recently when i came back to this board and started seeing loads of stuff about high fruit etc so thought i'd give it a go. and then is when my bloating and abdominal pain defintly increased but eating the fruit defintly stopped me from oversnacking on nuts and seeds! a bit of a catch 22 as they weren't having a brilliant effect either!
so i'm actually very happy that now i have a good idea of what the problem has been (apart from ongoing IBS type symptoms for several years, recently catching lots more colds, feeling fatigued, memory loss, etc etc etc) and shall try to incorporate a more alkaline diet. i shall continue fasting for today and then maybe i'll stop tomorrow, i shall see.
do you eat nuts and seeds? what do you eat on a normal 'raw' day? how many juices would you incorporate?

ps you're being fantastically helpful!

By St. Patricks Day we'll all have green tongues.

I went to the market again today and played Barbies last night which I recommend to the sick and fasting.

E.B. White also wrote Here is New York which I happen to like along with that pig book.

day 4

ahoy Mateys!

e.b. white wrote a pig book..?
hmmm... yeah, i remember reading something like that a long time ago
what was the name of it?

wait... was it still charlotte's web?
the only book that seems to stand out right now is

"James and the Giant Peach"
hmmmm.. I wonder why


i have something funny to share
this day when i woke up , i felt like

"easyyy peassyy... from here on out its all gonna be dowhilll ( as in, no resistance... thus easy as going along with gravity on a snowsled)

cuz i didn't have any hunger feelings anymore
and i'm going along my day

and people all around me are eating their popocornpizzapasta
and none of it is affecting me

then i see someone eating a "pear"
and i get the rawfood reflexes and think to myself " Geez that would be nice"

but it only lasts for a few seconds
then i remember my fellow peachsonians

and my trance is broken

well mateys
its very quiet and still for this moment
dunno what it will be next moment
but right now, its so quiet, i could drop a hemp seed into the ocean
and i could HEAR it
that's what i feel

whaddya say

shall we feed the sharkeys?

i'm falling in love with the lemons

though i have yet to squeeze it into my green juice

i keep them separate

lemon water

and green juice

wonder what's up with that?

lemon water tastes good on its own

green juice tastes beeeuttttttiful alone

so i guess that's why

maybe i'll be brave
and do a capncrunch move

and put lemons in my green juice
make it tarty and snappish!

carrie'

hows it going?
still hangin in there
and ... oh YEAH...
was the pig named Wilbur?
in that e.b. white book?
gosh darn! why can't i get the characters straight?



debbie

looks like yer in good hands
with advice from el Cap'n Crunch
hope your candida/IBS gets better
they are both intimately related
what u do for one will do good for the other
keep trekking

Capn'n

looks like your yesterday's tsunami has quelled just a bit?
no tsunami for me today
that is a gift

i like it quiet

end of Day 4

i got me something to keep me warm
figure that if i do that, it will be good
warm slippers for my feet

today was not as difficult as previous days
i even had a happy memory concerning picking these
really pretty flowers ( they are white speckled looking)
when i was around kindergarten

its a very happy memory
it made me sad too in a way
i can't explain why exactly
i think i've always been protected
even when i didn't feel that i was
gjf is making me see that
i don't know how exactly
nor do i care, really

its a good thing
this day
it was

matey's
let's skip our way down the plank
to Day 5

mateys

where did u dance 2?
i'm here

in a big peach
dance up the ladder
let's have a party

good morning y'all!
well i'm still hangin in there! day 4 (ok i did have a few dried apricots!) and i still got loads of aches and pains and headaches but reckon that it's not surprising i got candida or whatever after having a healthy (!) bottle at least of red wine per day per regular 'recreational' drug use for all those years. so i'm gonna try and stay on board a bit longer, at least til i start feelin better, will it happen?? yes i'm sure i-t will, listening to you La Verro who makes everything sound so poetic it's gotta to get better! i feel very priveleged to have come across this thrread and bumped into you 3!! happy sailing to you all!!

Wow, Purser, you are doing so awesomely. It helps to have a theory - so you can ride out the aches and headaches because you know what it's all about. I think it's great that you are doing this day-by-day. Part of Greenpeach's original mission was to be very loving and caring of self, and I think that's the taking-carest-of-yourself thing you can do with this fast, is promise your body and emotions that you'll take it day by day and if they need to eat, you will eat.

I must consult our map later today and give you some readings!