Thank you John for the update on Chris, I did not know he was not raw and was fighting those who were working to be raw

BJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Panchito, how many years / decades have you been a
> successful 100% raw fooder that you can speak as
> an authority on everyone else's body?

I am not the subject/topic of the discussion. The discussion is about the rules of the forum. Do you want to modify them yes no? If yes, please consider the mess, caos, and results. While this could potentially be an entertainment for some, it would be ill conceived and a reflection of internal confusion. That is my opinion. I don't need to be an authoruty to speak up.

banana who Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Panchito, what do you make of this post by David
> Wolfe yesterday?
>
> <<>>


Banana Who, where did David Wolfe post this?

Panchito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BJ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Panchito, how many years / decades have you been
> a
> > successful 100% raw fooder that you can speak
> as
> > an authority on everyone else's body?
>
> I am not the subject/topic of the discussion. The
> discussion is about the rules of the forum. Do you
> want to modify them yes no? If yes, please
> consider the mess, caos, and results. While this
> could potentially be an entertainment for some, it
> would be ill conceived and a reflection of
> internal confusion. That is my opinion. I don't
> need to be an authoruty to speak up.

But you have to respect others opinion. You seem to be on attack mode.

Sorry for the attack mode. I am not but this keep going circles. Why people avoid the problem and take tangents?

Do you want to modify the rules yes no?

janetc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> banana who Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > Panchito, what do you make of this post by
> David
> > Wolfe yesterday?
> >
> > <<>>
>
>
> Banana Who, where did David Wolfe post this?

On his Facebook page in response to someone who posted Freelea's video about deer antler. Go to his page and on the part where it says "recent posts by others" scroll down to Freelea's video (4/16 was when the video was posted up on his page). I just re-read some of his comments and I must say that I think he made some good points. I have to hand it to him to even engage people and keep up the comments. I give him credit for that.

Panchito, all I asked was a simple question. How long have you been successfully 100% raw? Rather than going on about whether it was about you or not, all you had to do was say 1 year, 5 years, 10 years, etc. What is there to hide? If you have been 100% raw for many many years then we can respect your opinion.

The reason I ask is that we see the same pattern over and over. You have 5 minute raw fooders, people who have read about the raw diet and all of a sudden after a few days, weeks, months on raw they are giving advice and attacking everyone who doesn't agree with the 100% raw diet. Then all of a sudden they disappear because it either doesn't work for them or they can't stick with it. Simple question. How long have you been successfully 100% raw?

I say that if the 100% raw diet works for you,then great, but for most people it has proven unworkable so why not face the reality of the situation.

Panchito, The rules of the forum are,

1. It's a 100% vegan forum.

2. It's a 50% / 60% + raw food forum. It's not an exclusive 100% raw food forum, so to attack people who don't advocate 100% is not abiding by the rules of the forum.

Hi BJ.

I think you are mistakening me with maybe someone else. I do recomend mixing cook food with raw many times. The problem with PoweL is that s-he is not even vegeratirian and has an agenda against veganism because of the 801010. I think that s-he eats chicken breast, seafood, etc (though small amounts not sure). So it is an everlasting conflict when this person criticizes veganism and slides fears on new comers.

John do you ever get tired of bullying people out of these forums .. with all your peace and love sigs .. really ? you seem to think you are the advocate of everyone on this forum to protect us from .. how do you say ..all the evil ? well you know what most of us have half a brain and can make that decision for ourselves. Chris was appreciated here and left because of you. I hope you feel awesome knowing that as you admit in your post he/she has some valid information to share ..and that nobody in the future will benefit from his/her knowledge.

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Hey Jodi,

This is a RAW VEGAN FORUM!!!

Chris admitted that he only ate 20% Raw Food and was constantly saying that a Raw Vegan Diet is NOT our Natural Diet and that Fasting and Juice Fasting/Feasting was of NO Value. I’ve had dozens of discussions with Chris which all started and ended well, until he REFUSED to address my point that we have damaged our bodies and our environment and some of us have to Modify our Natural Raw Vegan Diet in order to get some Level 2 Nutrients, like B12 and DHA. Chris also NEVER acknowledged that our Anatomy is clearly that of a Raw Vegan and all he could do is keep repeating that Plant Foods don’t have some Level 2 Nutrients and, therefore, we are NOT RAW VEGANS and we should KILL and Eat Animals instead of take Supplements!!!

Sure, Chris had great advice for those with Adrenal Fatigue and Chemical Sensitivities and we need feedback like this because many people can benefit from this type of personal experience, but Chris has no business on a Raw Vegan Website just as much as we have no business to be on a Paleo Website if we are unwilling to discuss the points presented to us like Chris was unwilling to discuss the points presented to him. I have no problem with anyone who wants to discuss these points, but Chris NEVER addressed any of my points which include the fact that our Anatomy is clearly that of a Plant Eater.

Since Chris REFUSED to discuss the issues that really mattered, I for one am THRILLED that Chris is gone and is no longer misguiding people through his limited experience. I’ve coached thousands of people and when some FOOL like Chris comes along and tells people that they should Not do a Juice Fast/Feast, I’m fit to be tied. Chris has NO personal or professional experience to be telling people this and for this reason, I say good riddance.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, I could care less if anyone attacks me and I’m attacked quite often, but when anyone attacks the Truth, I will stand up and defend the Truth and that Truth is that we are designed to Eat Plants and we have damaged our bodies and we have damaged our environment and now we have 2 Groups of Needs we must Satisfy. I made this point to Chris countless times and he NEVER had the balls to discuss this with me. Once again, I’d love to discuss this with anyone, but Chris NEVER did and once again, good riddance, otherwise, we have what Panchito said, a FOOLS FORUM.!!!

Peace and Love..........John

John Rose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey Jodi,
>
> This is a RAW VEGAN FORUM!!!

Thanks for stating the obvious


>
> Chris admitted that he only ate 20% Raw Food and
> was constantly saying that a Raw Vegan Diet is NOT
> our Natural Diet and that Fasting and Juice
> Fasting/Feasting was of NO Value.

Actually from what i read of Chris's posts he said it wasnt right for him, wasnt natural for him and I never saw him say fasting and feasting had no value. Mind you I havent had the time to peruse all his posts Ive always found Chris to be quite sincere and accepting of others peoples choices and I have never seen him try to convince people otherwise



I’ve had
> dozens of discussions with Chris which all started
> and ended well, until he REFUSED to address my
> point that we have damaged our bodies and our
> environment and some of us have to Modify our
> Natural Raw Vegan Diet in order to get some Level
> 2 Nutrients, like B12 and DHA. Chris also NEVER
> acknowledged that our Anatomy is clearly that of a
> Raw Vegan and all he could do is keep repeating
> that Plant Foods don’t have some Level 2
> Nutrients and, therefore, we are NOT RAW VEGANS
> and we should KILL and Eat Animals instead of take
> Supplements!!!

Ive never seen chris say we should kill and eat animals .. im guessing these are in your private discussions .. of which if they are private then you cant say he was promoting that publicly can you?

>
> Sure, Chris had great advice for those with
> Adrenal Fatigue and Chemical Sensitivities and we
> need feedback like this because many people can
> benefit from this type of personal experience, but
> Chris has no business on a Raw Vegan Website just
> as much as we have no business to be on a Paleo
> Website if we are unwilling to discuss the points
> presented to us like Chris was unwilling to
> discuss the points presented to him. I have no
> problem with anyone who wants to discuss these
> points, but Chris NEVER addressed any of my points
> which include the fact that our Anatomy is clearly
> that of a Plant Eater.

Who are you to say who has business being on this website or any another? last I checked you are not a moderator here .. abd quite frankly its really none of your business to make these decisions.

>
> Since Chris REFUSED to discuss the issues that
> really mattered, I for one am THRILLED that Chris
> is gone and is no longer misguiding people through
> his limited experience. I’ve coached thousands
> of people and when some FOOL like Chris comes
> along and tells people that they should Not do a
> Juice Fast/Feast, I’m fit to be tied. Chris has
> NO personal or professional experience to be
> telling people this and for this reason, I say
> good riddance.

You are thrilled because it feeds your EGO.

>
> I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, I
> could care less if anyone attacks me and I’m
> attacked quite often, but when anyone attacks the
> Truth, I will stand up and defend the Truth and
> that Truth is that we are designed to Eat Plants
> and we have damaged our bodies and we have damaged
> our environment and now we have 2 Groups of Needs
> we must Satisfy. I made this point to Chris
> countless times and he NEVER had the balls to
> discuss this with me. Once again, I’d love to
> discuss this with anyone, but Chris NEVER did and
> once again, good riddance, otherwise, we have what
> Panchito said, a FOOLS FORUM.!!!
>
> Peace and Love..........John


If its a fools forum why are you still here?

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

Hi John,

I'm ready for your challenge, but firstly, are you talking about real people living in the real world as opposed to living in a fantasy world, a tropical paradise where we would all like to be living? Are you talking about people living in the cold Northern and Southern temperate zones where it snows and it's very very cold?
Are you talking about people who grew up in cities and have to live all their lives in crowded polluted cities where everything eaten is grown miles and miles away and nothing is at peak freshness, and their lives don't involve much activity?

We need to talk about real people and the lives they are living and the bodies THEY are born with, and that's all they have in this lifetime and they have to survive as best as they can. That's the real issue.

John Rose what exactly are your credentials if I may ask .. considering that you are calling out Chris's ?

Chris has
> NO personal or professional experience to be
> telling people this and for this reason, I say
> good riddance.

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

i also want to ask if you don't mind .. i've been doing extensive web searches on you today and can find no indication of your *thousands* of clients. I cant even find a website on you. Do you have a website? I would think you do. I found one dead end website that was linked to you some time ago .. at least it seems it is you maybe its not? www.UltimateWeightLoss.com ? but the link is a dead end. I can't find any testimonials online of your thousands of clients (or no complaints .. i personally find it hard to believe one wouldn't even have a disgruntled client out of thousands).

Considering you have been posting here since 2007 and I know you were around before the *BIG CRASH* cuz you ran a few people off this site in 2002 ... Do any of your thousands of clients come from this site? hey folks i'm calling you out if yer a client of John Rose please speak up!

Im coming up with a big mystery John as to what your *professional* background really is?

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

I would like to add to this...I usually don't put a lot of stock in folks who have a lot to say via. "walls of text."

And yes, I miss powerlifer's contributions as well.


YMMV...



Jgunn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i also want to ask if you don't mind .. i've been
> doing extensive web searches on you today and can
> find no indication of your *thousands* of clients.
> I cant even find a website on you. Do you have a
> website? I would think you do. I found one dead
> end website that was linked to you some time ago
> .. at least it seems it is you maybe its not?
> www.UltimateWeightLoss.com ? but the link is a
> dead end. I can't find any testimonials online
> of your thousands of clients (or no complaints ..
> i personally find it hard to believe one wouldn't
> even have a disgruntled client out of thousands).
>
>
> Considering you have been posting here since 2007
> and I know you were around before the *BIG CRASH*
> cuz you ran a few people off this site in 2002 ...
> Do any of your thousands of clients come from this
> site? hey folks i'm calling you out if yer a
> client of John Rose please speak up!
>
> Im coming up with a big mystery John as to what
> your *professional* background really is?

Hey Veganjuice,

I too miss Chris. He helped me tweak my Version of the Science and Art of Healing and I wish he was still around and would show me my Flaws in my Version. However, Chris would NEVER engage me in an honest debate because he could NOT find any Flaws in my Version and at the same time, continued to say that a Raw Vegan Diet is NOT our Natural Diet and Warned everyone of the DANGERS of a Raw Plant Based Diet. Chris also Warned everyone that they should NEVER do a Water Fast and Warned everyone that they should NEVER do a Juice Fast/Feast. Unlike many people on this website, I actually keep a file on everything I Post and I also keep track of what some of you guys are saying too. Unlike many people on this website, I actually STUDY what everyone says, I actually read “walls of text on Forums” if I feel they have something to say. Indeed, I am very passionate about making this world a better place to live and I do not condemn with investigation.

Hey Jody,

You won’t find very many people on these Forums that I have worked with because I do NOT come her to pick up clients. In the past, I’ve had lots of people ask me for my Video, but I told everyone that my Video is geared for those who have never heard of Raw Food and I’ve only sold 2 Videos to people who insisted anyway and that was in the very first year I was here back in 2000. The point here is that I’m NOT trying to work with people who already know about Raw Food - I’m trying to Wake Up all of those people who have never even heard of Raw Food. When I first tried to get this message out to the masses, I produced 8 Cable TV Shows on the Access Station here in Houston. In fact, I had the #1 Show here in Houston for several years and got over 100 calls every week. That’s over 10,000 people I helped in just 2 years and that was over 15 years ago!!!

Once again, my mission is NOT to make money like most everyone else in the Raw Food Movement and work with fellow Raw Fooders - my Mission is to Wake everyone else UP!!! In fact, I don’t even want to be known as a Raw Foodist because that Shuts Down most people’s Frontal Lobe. As far as finding me on the Internet and my old Website, I no longer want to disguise my message as a Weight Loss Program, so that Website has been put on hold for several years and now, I’m trying to find a clever way to tell this message, which is why I have come back here to this website to bounce my ideas off of y’all and everyone here has helped me in ways most of y’all will never understand.

To illustrate that I do NOT come here to pick up clients, here are 2 old Posts of mine - be sure to read the last answer to the last question in the first Post, although the entire Post is worth reading and then, the 2nd Post is a classic example of what you have accused me of doing…

[www.living-foods.com]
RE: Is Cooked Food Poison???
John Rose
1-23-01

<<<"After you fasted, could you lay on your back and pour water on your belly and it didn't run off ? " What does this mean?>>>

Hi calv,

Sorry, I wasn't very explicit. I meant to say that my belly was concaved or it curved inward so that it could hold water like a bowl.

<<<My biggest tourment in my life and has Always been- is my own mind! I've always suffered from extreme personal superstition, paranoia, irrationality, being too sensitive and irrational fears always worring. Does fasting cure this?>>>

Technically there are no cures to any disease, but I have no doubt that cleansing your body will solve this problem.

<<<When you went back to eating 20% cooked foods- what was it that you were eating? What kind of cooked foods?>>>

The only cooked food that I ate during that 30 day experiment was baked potatoes. Twice, however, I did eat steamed squash instead of the potatoes, but that was it...nothing processed except for the olive oil that I put on the potatoes.

<<<If I can ask you- what does your 100% raw diet consist of now? What do you eat? Do you stay away from nuts, seeds and grains and find that they clog you up? Do you stay away from dehydrated food? Too many spices? Do you eat mono? Mostly fruit?>>>

I'm still pretty active so I'm eating 3000 to 3500 calories a day. I usually have one huge salad of green leafy vegetables - 16-20 ounces and I use 2-3 ounces of Tahini for my salad dressing. The rest of the day is mostly fruit. When I first went raw close to 11 years ago, I tried to eat every thing as a mono meal. I could go 100% raw for about 2 months without any problems, but then I started craving cooked food. I found that if I ate 2 or 3 pieces of fruit at a time that solved the problem. I'm still experimenting on The Ideal Diet for Building so I'm constantly experimenting with different foods and eating them at different times. For me, I found that nuts go best with greens and avocados go best with fruits like mangos and apples. Since I do consume so many calories, I do not subscribe to a 10-15% fat diet at this time in my research. If I was eating less calories, than I would agree with Jeff N. and Dr. Doug and limit my fat intake to be sure to get plenty of greens and fruits. I also don't see anything wrong with juicing. Once again, since I'm still pretty active and require a lot of calories, I use juices to keep my body from processing so much food. I grind flax seeds in a coffee grinder and add these to my juices. I am currently experimenting with a mono meal of 1 ounce of nuts as my last meal of the day and it's too soon to see what effect this is having on my eliminations.

<<<Also, my father just found out that he has a tumor in his bladder and possibly prostate cancer. He said he is going to get the tumor removed and that it is not a big operation and is simple. And if they find it to be maligmant he will fast like I've urged him to.

Do you have any advice for this? Should I urge him not to have it removed? I can't believe he would call it simple- sounds frightening.

Should he juice fast until it's gone? Is there anything else that might help too?>>>

Even doctors will tell you that every drug and every surgery is a calculated risk. Surgery with cancer can also be extremely dangerous because this is how some of the cancers spread by getting into the blood and lymph system. I agree with you, I'd be terrified to go under the knife. If I was your dad, I wouldn't be in such a hurry and would give Nature a try to heal me first. Doctors are always in a hurry to get you in the operating room and as long as it's not life threatening, I'd sure think twice about it. My concern would be that he has the operation and thinks that the problem is solved and keeps doing what he's always done.

<<<Thanks so much for your help John! You should write a book! Do you have a website?>>>

You’re welcome and yes I have been working on a book for some time now. I switched to producing a 93 minute instructional video after I heard that most people don't read past the fourth chapter. My video is geared 100% for beginners and really wouldn't be very appropriate for most of the people on this website. I disguise my video and this message of Raw Food and Fasting as a weight loss program just to get people's attention. I call my video "The Ultimate Weight Loss Program" and my website is www.ultimateweightloss.com [currently in 2013 Under Construction] I must emphasize that my video is geared for those who have NEVER heard of raw food before, which is why I do not mention raw food or fasting on my website. I've done this too long and I know from experience that most people will walk away from this message if they hear too much too soon.

Now here’s the 2nd Post…

[www.living-foods.com]
clean up your act or go somewhere else!!!
John Rose
2-21-01

I do not come here to sell my video, I come here to be with like minded people. And YOU, james, winston, rawpower or whoever you really are, ARE NOT ONE OF THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just for the record...in the 6 months that I've been here, I've posted close to 140,000 words most of which to help others on their journey for a better life. During this time I have sold 2 videos. Obviously, I do NOT come here to peddle anything but goodwill.

You, on the other hand, have been a major pain in the ass ever since you showed up as rawpower. You are insulting, ignorant, arrogant and about another dozen or two negative qualities...you have NO redeeming qualities whatsoever.

You have been asked to leave by our webmaster and you refuse. You post that I will go wherever I like regardless if I'm asked to leave. Why are you so persistent? Is this your job to come here and create disharmony? Are you being paid to be insulting? Where did you learn this horrendous behavior? Who mistreated you so badly that you have to come here and mistreat people that you don't even know? Are you this obnoxious to people in person or do you just hide behind your little terminal when you want to cry for help?

I'm sure that I speak for many people here...if you want to stay, clean up your act or go somewhere else.

Peace and Love..........John

"Unlike many people on this website, I actually keep a file on everything I Post and I also keep track of what some of you guys are saying too. Unlike many people on this website, I actually STUDY what everyone says"


John, that is creepy. Almost like the govt. keeping a database on everyone.

As far as reading the "walls of text", then you are one in a million. There's not enough hours in a day to read a mountain of text of several forums, digest what is said & form an answer about it.

How do you actually have time to live a normal life & make a living? I assume you do not have a family/wife/kids, as they would never put up with you spending all that time behind the keyboard each day.

And, as far as posting all those wall that you do and expecting a change to occur, good luck with that.

I'm not saying that small pockets of change may not happen here & there, but as far as everything getting fixed & going back to the "good old days"...

I can't see that happening in a million years. At every turn it keeps getting worse. How can you possibly expect a change when, (for example) the freeloaders/welfare recipients are the ones who are actually supporting the corrupt govt., and as long as they keep receiving the handouts, they're not about to "come to their senses".

That is, if the voting system even "works" in this country. I, like many others feel that (much of the major elections anyway) are simply a farce and the actual winner is known on the inside many months beforehand.

Wow, I made a wall of text too! Sorry about that, lol.

BTW John, I'm not really "calling you out" on this, rather, I'm a realist and I've finally come to my senses that things aren't getting better, we have little to no impact.

To add to all that, I am a Christian and I see a different outcome for the world than my heathen brethren does. lol

<<<How do you actually have time to live a normal life & make a living?>>>

As soon as I discovered Raw Food and Fasting, I knew that I had found my calling and I have devoted every waking and non-waking moment of my life ever since then to put an end to all of the needless suffering on this planet. I even go to bed with a tape recorder because many times when I wake up in the middle of the night, my mind is working and putting Pieces of the Puzzle together.

Indeed, getting this message out to the masses is my life and I have a hard time understanding why everyone else is not as passionate as me and why they don’t want to help others who are in Pain. I guess Edgar Cayce knew what he was saying when he said, “Destiny or karma, depends upon what the soul has done about what it has become aware of.” For example, when Dr. Albert Schweitzer was healed of life threatening diabetes at the age of 75 by using Dr. Max Gerson’s Raw Food/Juicing Protocol, he said, “I don’t know what your destiny will be, but one thing I do know: the only ones among you who will be happy are those who have sought and found how to serve.” As a result, Dr. Albert Schweitzer went on to win the Noble Prize for Peace in 1952.

<<<I'm a realist and I've finally come to my senses that things aren't getting better, we have little to no impact.>>>

“Most people who constantly say, ‘Let’s be realistic,’ are really just living in fear, deadly afraid of being disappointed again. ...Great leaders are rarely “realistic”. They are intelligent, and they are accurate, but they are not realistic by other people’s standards.” -Anthony Robbins, “Awaken The Gaint Within” p. 81

Peace and Love..........John

ok so let me understand this, so you don't have thousands of clients you had thousands of viewers. you have no creditenials, no website and aren't selling anything

ok i got it .. i think ..

im just trying to figure out where you get off calling someone else (who was sharing their personal experiences and ideas which by the way is allowed here) ... an amateur and discrediting them to the point of running them out of here when , your own mighty high horse is just a little shetland pony

...Jodi, the banana eating buddhist

I wish we didn't have to have these ego trip discourses anymore......I feel like all of a sudden some threads are getting into name-calling. What happened?

<<<ok so let me understand this, so you don't have thousands of clients you had thousands of viewers>>>

No, I coached over 10,000 people in 2 years, which is the same amount of people Dr. Joel Furhman sees in the same amount of time, and I probably had several hundred thousand viewers or perhaps even several million viewers during those 2 years since I live in the 4th largest city in the US.

<<<you have no creditenials>>>

If you doubt my qualifications, I’ll email you a radio interview with one of the Doctors I coached a while back and you can hear what this health professional thinks of my credentials.

Hey Jodi,

Utopian Life gets it - why don’t you?

[www.rawfoodsupport.com]
Re: Brain Chemistry
Posted by: Utopian Life
Date: October 16, 2012 09:32AM

powerlifer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is why raw doesn't work for most, it is hard
> to eat alot of calories from raw food due to the
> volume.
>
> Which is why people end up consuming crazy
> banana/date smoothie combos to get the calories
> in, makes much more sense to level and balance the
> diet out with a little more nutrient dense and
> protein/fat dense foods.

----
I'm curious why you're on a raw food support forum, PL. You don't seem to support the raw food diet.

Re: Brain Chemistry
Posted by: Utopian Life
Date: October 16, 2012 10:18AM

I'm going to respond up top so the quote isn't too long. This has nothing to do with YOUR PERSONAL diet; it has to do with your posts. You do not support raw food diets. People come on here EXACTLY for support of a raw-food diet. If you think wanting support on a raw food forum that's for support is dogmatic and elitist, I don't know how to help you there. Except to say "how ironic...."

ADD: I'd say at least half your posts could be reported as unsupportive and against the terms, but unfortunately you are one of the most frequent posters. don't get me wrong, I like you, PL, but maybe try a vegan forum?

powerlifer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Utopian Life Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > powerlifer Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > This is why raw doesn't work for most, it is
> > hard …

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2012 10:19AM by Utopian Life.
[www.rawfoodsupport.com]

The vegan diet can be dangerous and a person needs to understand foods well to make it work in most cases. Of course there are some that can eat the average vegan diet and do well, but they are in the minority. l'll put a case for eating raw later on, needs to be a minimum of 75% raw according to two major studies - one done by the Pasteur Institute in France during the 1930's and another done by HHI and Tufts University in Boston during the 1970's. BOTH came to the same conclusion, but more on that later.

Here is something l wrote a while ago:

In the 1970’s the Hippocrates Health Institute and Tuffs University conducted a joint study to see how raw food and cooked food affected the immune system of healthy people free of all disease. What they found was that when `healthy’ people ate a vegan diet of 75% raw food, their immune systems were not compromised in any significant way. But when these healthy people increased their cooked vegan food intake from 25% to 30% (the % of raw v’s cooked is always measured by weight), these people’s immune systems dropped in functioning by an average of 17% across the board. And when these people increased their cooked food intake from 30% to 35%, about 50% of their immune systems had been compromised. What was even more startling is that the researchers looked at old research done at the `Pasteur Institute’ in France during the 1930’s where the same conclusions were reached by a default study. So we have two studies which confirm that a healthy person must be consuming at least a 75% raw diet to maintain good health.


Now...this is not the only reason to eat raw, there are many many good scientific reasons to be eating high raw. But more on that if l can spare the time later because it will be long.

www.thesproutarian.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2013 05:42AM by The Sproutarian Man.

Another major problem with the vegan diet is getting enough vitamin D. People will say that we can go out in the sun, but it is not as simple as that because it takes the body 48 hours to absorb those oils (or whatever) to make that vitamin D, so people who wash everyday are likely to be vitamin D deficient as well. But then we will have people argue that they have enough vitamin D because the blood tests prove it, BUT...how much vitamin D have we absorbed and stored???...not all blood tests are equal.

l consume most of the highest vegan foods in vitamin D2, but that is still not enough because D2 is only 10 - 30% absorbable apparently, so even a sproutarian must be careful with certain deficiencies and a vegan diet. l need to look at this in the near future:
[www.hippocratesstore.org]



And despite having all the top vegan foods for B12, l still come up deficient. lt shows that relying on the vegan diet for B12 is very very risky for most people. As many as 70% can't rely on the vegan diet for B12. Some say enemas and wheatgrass implants and bacteria cultures can work, but how many are prepared to do all that work?

l get my B12 from this high quality supplement:
[www.hippocratesstore.org]

And then there is the potential problem manufacturing enough of the EPA fatty acid. Imo most folks do need high amino acid diets (far more than the average vegan diet can ever get from their diet), high B vitamin levels, good amounts of certain minerals, and good levels of omega 3's...but the average vegan diet won't provide that and average mere mortals will fail. l get my omega 3's from the top source - sprouted chia grass and the third highest souce - sprouted flax. And no, flax seeds and flax oil and unsprouted chia seeds won't provide enough nor provide a proper balanced diet for various reasons either.

The vegan diet is FULL of pitfalls that very few seem aware of. As l said, some can make it work, but people like myself need to work hard to make it work. l believe everyone can make the vegan diet work, but it takes lots of sprouting for most people to be sucessful. l could go on and on forever about this...so much to cover.

In sum, the average vegan diet is absolutely terribly done so it is no wonder most will fail in the long term. None of the diets l see promoted by the raw gurus make any sense what-so-ever (Brian Clement excepted), so it's no wonder their followers fail in droves. But that doesn't mean some people won't do well on these average diets (some thrive like John Kohler and possibly Durian-Rider), but most will fail.

www.thesproutarian.com



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2013 06:41AM by The Sproutarian Man.

Definitely recommended for non sproutarians to consume kelp and purslane weeds for those EPA's to make sure. Things can't be left to chance.

Ann Wigmore did well on the raw vegan diet. She sprouted most foods, did enemas and implants and also ate purslane weeds and kelp. She did the lot!

Hey Sproutarian Man,

Yes, B12, DHA and Vitamin D are the 3 big issues that everyone needs to be aware of and thanks to discussing these 3 concerns with Chris, I’ve tweaked what I call the Science and Art of Healing by saying that there are 2 Groups of Needs we must satisfy and both are based on our Body’s Limitations. Just like every other Living System on this planet, we are Limited by our Anatomy and our Environment, but we humans are also Limited by the Damage we’ve done to our Anatomy and our Environment. The problem Chris had is he refused to accept our 1st Group of Needs or our Body’s Limitations based on our Anatomy and our Environment. Chris used our 2nd Group of Needs based on the Damage we’ve done to our Anatomy and our Environment as an excuse to ignore our 1st Group of Needs or our Body’s Limitations based on our Anatomy and our Environment.

Indeed, there is a reason why Vegan Diets and Raw Vegan Diets fail, but it’s not because we are NOT designed as Plant Eaters - it’s because of the Damage we’ve done to our Anatomy and our Environment and now, we have 2 Groups of Needs we must satisfy.

Thanks for sharing those studies and the info from Ann Wigmore about the purslane. Dr. Ann Wigmore recognized that weeds are some of the most nutritious foods on this planet and started using purslane and lambsquarter in her Energy Soup in place of sprouted greens.

This was written by Dr. Flora who was Dr. Ann Wigmore’s assistant for the last 22 years of her life:

Energy Soup is the wonderful stuff that is instrumental in keeping me going for all hours of the day and night! Dr. Ann Wigmore fed it and taught it to me to keep me typing and assist me in trying (unsuccessfully) to keep up with her! It's made from a few simple ingredients that are easy to keep around in your cabinet and in your refrigerator.

In just five minutes, these wonderful foods, prepped and in order of use, will be blended together a form that is the most easy-to-digest nourishment available. Eaten slowly (30 chews each mouthful, in a prayerful, grateful, joyful attitude), the Energy Soup will provide you with blessed and sustained energy for the entire day (and sometimes half the night, especially if I'm working on a grant proposal!).

1. peeled watermelon or apples in season (organic), about half a blender full, sometimes mangos and sometimes papaya, blended with a cup of Rejuvelac (recipe below),

2. two small rinsed palmfuls of dulse (caution: the unusually high content of iodine),

3. half a blender of organic baby greens (wildcrafted (handpicked in the wild) dandelion, purslane and lambsquarter were her favorites, but sunflower and buckwheat baby greens are easy to grow in just 7 days), or any wonderful leafy baby dark green vegetable, i.e. parsley, kale, collards, arugula, etc. (except no spinach - it causes gall stones to be formed and also prevents proper utilization of calcium in one's system),

4. 3 tablespoons of flax seeds (any color), placed in water for 15 minutes (or until like jelled,

5. fenugreek sprouts (if you have sinus/lymph//lung challenges,

6. 10 figs (hydrated [put into water overnight] or raw) - for the first 10 days, back off one fig each day until you are not using any. This is only to get your body into an alkaline condition as soon as possible,

7. 6 prunes (hydrated) - back off one prune each day for 6 days until you aren't using any. This is to get your GI track cleaned out as quickly as possible,

8.a. If you are not O+, 1/4th of a diced avocado sprinkled on top of the bowl.,

8.b. If you are O+, then 12 almonds which you have been soaking for 1 1/2 days, blend in the blender with some Rejuvelac to make almond cream. Use 2 oz. for each Energy Soup in the afternoon and evening..

Fast! This easiest-to-digest totally nourishing meal was perfect for Dr. Ann's totally astounding schedule and for people who need to regenerate their cells. Dr. Wigmore seemed to thrive on it and it put her in a space where she didn't need sleep anymore. I've watched people for nearly half a century now do amazing things with it. I'll use it every day for the rest of my life.

Dr. Lerman, who was Chief of Medical Nutrition at Boston University Medical Center, took both my blood and Dr. Ann’s, and told me that my blood was perfect. Dr. Ann told me that something must have been wrong with the tests, because they indicated that there was something lacking in her results. One doesn't have to worry about not having what you need when you eat this blessed stuff.

What was Dr. Ann Wigmore’s diet?

Dr. Ann was a 100% living-food vegan....

Peace and Love..........John





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2013 03:01PM by John Rose.

John; Will you give the citation info on that joint Hipp/Tufts study from the 1970ties you mentioned above as I can find nothing on Pub-Med which should cover it IF such actually happened. Thank you. Otherwise, I can check with my neighbor who is a post-grad doctor from Tufts for the veracity of your claim.

Also I've done enough genealogical work on Ann Wigmore to realize that the dear woman Lied. A. Lot Another Paul Bragg?

Sorry, I meant to address the first part to the Sprout Man.

chlorella is 23% DHA. This is what wikipedia says:

[en.wikipedia.org]

"Conversion efficiency of ALA to EPA and DHA

The body converts short-chain omega?3 fatty acids to long-chain forms (EPA, DHA) with an efficiency below 5%[49][50] in men. The omega-3 conversion efficiency is greater in women, possibly because of the importance for meeting the demands of the fetus and neonate for DHA.[51]

These conversions occur competitively with omega?6 fatty acids, which are essential closely related chemical analogues that are derived from linoleic acid. Both the omega?3 ?-linolenic acid and omega?6 linoleic acid must be obtained from food. Synthesis of the longer omega?3 fatty acids from linolenic acid within the body is competitively slowed by the omega?6 analogues. Thus, accumulation of long-chain omega?3 fatty acids in tissues is more effective when they are obtained directly from food or when competing amounts of omega?6 analogs do not greatly exceed the amounts of omega?3.[citation needed]

The conversion of ALA to EPA and further to DHA in humans has been reported to be limited, but varies with individuals.[52][53] Women have higher ALA conversion efficiency than men, which is presumed[citation needed] to be due to the lower rate of use of dietary ALA for beta-oxidation. This suggests that biological engineering of ALA conversion efficiency is possible. Goyens et al. argue that it is the absolute amount of ALA, rather than the ratio of omega?3 and omega?6 fatty acids, that controls the conversion efficiency.[54]

The omega?6 to omega?3 ratio

Main article: Essential fatty acid interactions

Some older clinical studies[46][55] indicate that the ingested ratio of omega?6 to omega?3 (especially linoleic vs alpha-linolenic) fatty acids is important to maintaining cardiovascular health. However, three studies published in 2005, 2007 and 2008, including a randomized controlled trial, found that while omega?3 polyunsaturated fatty acids are extremely beneficial in preventing heart disease in humans, the levels of omega?6 polyunsaturated fatty acids (and therefore the ratios) were insignificant.[56][57][58]

Both omega?6 and omega?3 fatty acids are essential; i.e., humans must consume them in the diets. Omega?6 and omega?3 eighteen-carbon polyunsaturated fatty acids compete for the same metabolic enzymes, thus the omega?6mega?3 ratio of ingested fatty acids has significant influence on the ratio and rate of production of eicosanoids, a group of hormones intimately involved in the body's inflammatory and homeostatic processes which includes the prostaglandins, leukotrienes, and thromboxanes, among others. Altering this ratio can change the body's metabolic and inflammatory state.[59]"

John Rose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey Sproutarian Man,
>
> Yes, B12, DHA and Vitamin D are the 3 big issues
> that everyone needs to be aware of and thanks to
> discussing these 3 concerns with Chris, I’ve
> tweaked what I call the Science and Art of Healing
> by saying that there are 2 Groups of Needs we must
> satisfy and both are based on our Body’s
> Limitations. Just like every other Living System
> on this planet, we are Limited by our Anatomy and
> our Environment, but we humans are also Limited by
> the Damage we’ve done to our Anatomy and our
> Environment. The problem Chris had is he refused
> to accept our 1st Group of Needs or our Body’s
> Limitations based on our Anatomy and our
> Environment. Chris used our 2nd Group of Needs
> based on the Damage we’ve done to our Anatomy
> and our Environment as an excuse to ignore our 1st
> Group of Needs or our Body’s Limitations based
> on our Anatomy and our Environment.
>
> Indeed, there is a reason why Vegan Diets and Raw
> Vegan Diets fail, but it’s not because we are
> NOT designed as Plant Eaters - it’s because of
> the Damage we’ve done to our Anatomy and our
> Environment and now, we have 2 Groups of Needs we
> must satisfy.
>
> Thanks for sharing those studies and the info from
> Ann Wigmore about the purslane. Dr. Ann Wigmore
> recognized that weeds are some of the most
> nutritious foods on this planet and started using
> purslane and lambsquarter in her Energy Soup in
> place of sprouted greens.
>
> This was written by Dr. Flora who was Dr. Ann
> Wigmore’s assistant for the last 22 years of her
> life:
>
> Energy Soup is the wonderful stuff that is
> instrumental in keeping me going for all hours of
> the day and night! Dr. Ann Wigmore fed it and
> taught it to me to keep me typing and assist me in
> trying (unsuccessfully) to keep up with her! It's
> made from a few simple ingredients that are easy
> to keep around in your cabinet and in your
> refrigerator.
>
> In just five minutes, these wonderful foods,
> prepped and in order of use, will be blended
> together a form that is the most easy-to-digest
> nourishment available. Eaten slowly (30 chews
> each mouthful, in a prayerful, grateful, joyful
> attitude), the Energy Soup will provide you with
> blessed and sustained energy for the entire day
> (and sometimes half the night, especially if I'm
> working on a grant proposal!).
>
> 1. peeled watermelon or apples in season
> (organic), about half a blender full, sometimes
> mangos and sometimes papaya, blended with a cup of
> Rejuvelac (recipe below),
>
> 2. two small rinsed palmfuls of dulse (caution:
> the unusually high content of iodine),
>
> 3. half a blender of organic baby greens
> (wildcrafted (handpicked in the wild) dandelion,
> purslane and lambsquarter were her favorites, but
> sunflower and buckwheat baby greens are easy to
> grow in just 7 days), or any wonderful leafy baby
> dark green vegetable, i.e. parsley, kale,
> collards, arugula, etc. (except no spinach - it
> causes gall stones to be formed and also prevents
> proper utilization of calcium in one's system),
>
> 4. 3 tablespoons of flax seeds (any color),
> placed in water for 15 minutes (or until like
> jelled,
>
> 5. fenugreek sprouts (if you have
> sinus/lymph//lung challenges,
>
> 6. 10 figs (hydrated or raw) - for the first 10
> days, back off one fig each day until you are not
> using any. This is only to get your body into an
> alkaline condition as soon as possible,
>
> 7. 6 prunes (hydrated) - back off one prune each
> day for 6 days until you aren't using any. This is
> to get your GI track cleaned out as quickly as
> possible,
>
> 8.a. If you are not O+, 1/4th of a diced avocado
> sprinkled on top of the bowl.,
>
> 8.b. If you are O+, then 12 almonds which you
> have been soaking for 1 1/2 days, blend in the
> blender with some Rejuvelac to make almond cream.
> Use 2 oz. for each Energy Soup in the afternoon
> and evening..
>
> Fast! This easiest-to-digest totally nourishing
> meal was perfect for Dr. Ann's totally astounding
> schedule and for people who need to regenerate
> their cells. Dr. Wigmore seemed to thrive on it
> and it put her in a space where she didn't need
> sleep anymore. I've watched people for nearly half
> a century now do amazing things with it. I'll use
> it every day for the rest of my life.
>
> Dr. Lerman, who was Chief of Medical Nutrition at
> Boston University Medical Center, took both my
> blood and Dr. Ann’s, and told me that my blood
> was perfect. Dr. Ann told me that something must
> have been wrong with the tests, because they
> indicated that there was something lacking in her
> results. One doesn't have to worry about not
> having what you need when you eat this blessed
> stuff.
>
> What was Dr. Ann Wigmore’s diet?
>
> Dr. Ann was a 100% living-food vegan....
>
> Peace and Love..........John

Thanks for sharing John, l LOVE reading and hearing about Ann Wigmore. She was the lady that inspired me into sproutarianism 18 years ago. A complete inspiration.

Makes me wonder too....did those wheatgrass implants, enemas and rejuvalic allow Dr Ann to manufacture various nutrients not discovered by science yet?? What else are science going to discover that we need...EPA's are a recent discovery, but what else could there be? Vitamin D has now been classified as a hormone, so maybe l should be doing the semi regular enema and twice daily wheatgrass implant and have more bacteria based foods to see what happens...see if l can produce D, B12 and various other things.

www.thesproutarian.com



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2013 11:53PM by The Sproutarian Man.