"I like how David Jubb does his own thing. He
> doesn't care if people see him drinking coffee
> with sugar, smoking or even smoking the dreaded
> bong. Raw fooders are a funny old bunch, they make
> me laugh and laugh when l hear and read these
> things."

Haha I don't know why marijuana has such a bad rep, it's one of, if not THE most medicinal plant on the planet. I plan on growing organic cannabis and juicing the leaves sometime in the future. Also, I honestly don't even know what would be wrong with vaporizing organically grown cannabis once in a while. Laughing is good for you

local "wild" fruit....loquats, mangos, papaya, star fruit, avocado, lychees, mulberries

not so simple to "prove" on the zinc, except no symptoms.
depends on your assumptions.

as one example, cronometer says 6mg.
W.H.O. says 2mg,3mg,6mg depending on bioavailability.
that's what I mean by inflated zinc requirements.

easy to get based on 2-3 mg

zinc chart here.
[www.fao.org]

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> local "wild" fruit....loquats, mangos, papaya,
> star fruit, avocado, lychees, mulberries
>
> not so simple to "prove" on the zinc, except no
> symptoms.
> depends on your assumptions.
>
> as one example, cronometer says 6mg.
> W.H.O. says 2mg,3mg,6mg depending on
> bioavailability.
> that's what I mean by inflated zinc requirements.
>
> easy to get based on 2-3 mg
>
> zinc chart here.
> [www.fao.org]#
> bm22.5


-Mulberries have 1% RDA zinc per 100g (http://www.nutrition-and-you.com/mulberries.html)
-Mangos have none
-Papayas have .5% RDA zinc per 100g (http://www.nutrition-and-you.com/papaya-fruit.html)
-Star fruit have 1% RDA zinc per 100g (http://www.nutrition-and-you.com/star-fruit.html)
-Avocados have 6% RDA zinc per 100g (http://www.nutrition-and-you.com/avocados.html)
-Lychees have .5% RDA zinc per 100g (http://www.nutrition-and-you.com/Lychee.html)
-Loquats have .5% RDA zinc per 100g (http://www.nutrition-and-you.com/loquat-fruit.html)


[ods.od.nih.gov] (National Institute of Health) states adult men need 11mg of zinc daily.

Again not sure what ur tryin to prove.

u can take the nih and I will take the who plus no symptoms.

my numbers in cron based on my diet are fine

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Again not sure what ur tryin to prove.
>
> u can take the nih and I will take the who plus no
> symptoms.
>
> my numbers in cron based on my diet are fine


No symptoms =/= no deficiency, otherwise everyone who felt great on their diet would get positive results when they get their nutrient levels tested. All of the foods you posted in your log are extremely low in zinc. I don't know what chronometer tells you but common sense says the opposite.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2014 03:58AM by jtprindl.

Jt, did u have any other food all day?

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jt, did u have any other food all day?


Yes. Tangelos, bananas, berry superfood smoothie (camu camu, pine pollen, noni, coconut oil), and brazil nuts. Still gradually growing more and more sprouts/grass and I'll eventually end the smoothies and use superfood powders with coconut water instead. I have a precise custom diet plan similar to the Hippocrates diet but with my own twists that I am striving to achieve, may take some time, but I'll get there. When I do, I'll gladly share my results.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2014 06:18AM by jtprindl.

Dr Lawrence Wilson sums it up perfectly about the typical attitude of natural hygiene fruit eaters longterm, the proof is in the pudding.

"Anger and belligerence. Another interesting symptom that occurs is the development of a stubborn, and often belligerent and angry nature. This could be due to a zinc deficiency or perhaps a B-vitamin deficiency of some type." - Dr Wilson

Sounds like a few of the members we have here. Many members pick up on this behaviour of the 80/10/10ers and fruit based raw foodists, although to be fair it isn't hard to notice.

Nothing wrong with fruit, its just a lack of dietary balance overall, which causes such aggressive behaviour and decline in cognitive function. Dr Wilson was also a natural hygienist before the lifestyle ruined his health and caused copper toxicity.

A lack of good fats also probably plays a role here.

[www.drlwilson.com]



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2014 11:59AM by powerlifter.

Dr Wilson, " In my clinical experience of over 33 years, I find that eating fruit is extremely harmful for most people"


Enough said.

jtprindl said>

> I don't know what chronometer tells you but common sense says the opposite.

how's this for common sense? first, common sense would tell you not to say something while at the same time saying "i don't know what cronometer tells you"

1. from what I understand, zinc needs to be ingested regularly as it is not stored in the body.

2. apparently according to you, even though you don't know how much I eat or my assimilation or my inhibitor status (like phytic acids), I am low in zinc

So my question for you is, given the above, wouldn't you think over weeks or months I would have developed some deficiency symptoms? Shouldn't take very long since you think that 11mg is REQUIRED. Is your only answer to something that you can't explain in your paradigm - that I am subclinically deficient and that any day now I will collapse?


powerlifter posted on dr wilson>

dr wilson, you mean this guy?
[www.healthyyouradio.com]

ha ha , very funny.
maybe I should listen to dr atkins too?


powerlifter is so sensitive that he can't discern between critical analysis and questions and ANGER. powerlifter can tell people's emotions THROUGH HIS COMPUTER SCREEN.

you just can't let it go can you, powerlifter.
funny how I have no problem with the idea of you or prindl or tsm being healthy in your own way since humans are quite adaptable, and you have some obsession with making unfounded statements about others because they question your unsupported statements.

powerlifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The proof is in the pudding with the behaviour of
> most 80/10/10ers fresh . Toxic anger and
> aggression in most cases. Stubborn and can't
> handle any different view point just like Dr
> Wilson says.


I really have no interest in going here, but here you go again, so I'll just give it back to you.....


MOST? really? please share your statistics of all the 811 people you know. categorize them by anger level. through your computer screen no doubt.


Stubborn and can't
> handle any different view point just like Dr
> Wilson says.

stubborn? sounds like you. must be the cooked food


> Hey its not just me, even another
> member in this thread thought your demeanor was
> rude, calling people morons and fools because they
> have different opinions on diet is grounded
> behaviour though lol.


don't act moronic and I won't need to call you one.
trying to wake you up from your slumber, that's all.

you can call it anger, you can call it rudeness.
I don't care.
I think honesty and integrity are more important than being perfectly nice and polite all the time.

what I would consider rude is not answering simple questions 5 times in a row, or ignoring the experiences of others to advance your outmoded ideas.


>
> You keep saying that TSM's and my thoughts are
> unfounded, yet TSM has provided you plenty of
> evidence to scientifically back many of his
> statements and so have i when it comes to the
> typical vegan diet deficiencies.

we disagree.


>
> Some of the studies he and i linked were some of
> the biggest vegan and vegetarian studies ever
> done. Reliable, unbiased and well-designed studies
> also.
>


you are unable to make fine distinctions.
distinctions like , calling something a vegan diet or a vegetarian diet in a study does not mean it is a healthy diet. therefore the study is often meaningless.

or the fears about nutrients based on inflated alleged requirements.

I just posted something on zinc with respect to that - another NUTRIENT FREAK, jtprindl was doing the same thing as you.

everything is a broad brush because you are so intent on disproving something SIMPLY BECAUSE IT DIDN'T WORK FOR YOU. but you will never get that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2014 11:59PM by Prana.

Here is a quote on dogma for you -

“You are never dedicated to something you have complete confidence in. No one is fanatically shouting that the sun is going to rise tomorrow. They know it's going to rise tomorrow. When people are fanatically dedicated to political or religious faiths or any other kinds of dogmas or goals, it's always because these dogmas or goals are in doubt.”

The only reason why people like yourself and John Rose get as angry and aggressive as you do to others beliefs on diet, is because your dietary dogmas such as 80/10/10 and even veganism are in extreme doubt.

Your posts are more about convincing yourself than they are me that your diet is healthy.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2014 03:43PM by powerlifter.

It's laughable that PL calls others liars. Ha ha. We all know what the initials PL really stands for. i dont need PL to take a lie detector test about his diet to tell me what I know already. anon 101 and others exposed him already.

Anon 102 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's laughable that PL calls others liars. Ha ha.
> We all know what the initials PL really stands
> for. i dont need PL to take a lie detector test
> about his diet to tell me what I know already.
> anon 101 and others exposed him already.

What use would me taking a lie detector on diet be, im open and honest about what i eat right down to the fact i even have junk food on occasion with no problems.

I can't say i get the same level of honesty from some other members around here. 100% pretend raw vegans, closet cooked food eaters. You guys have learned well from your guru's.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2014 03:49PM by powerlifter.

"2. apparently according to you, even though you don't know how much I eat or my assimilation or my inhibitor status (like phytic acids), I am low in zinc

So my question for you is, given the above, wouldn't you think over weeks or months I would have developed some deficiency symptoms? Shouldn't take very long since you think that 11mg is REQUIRED."

It wouldn't matter if your assimilation was 100% if you're eating foods that have very little to no zinc in them in the first place. Am I saying you are guaranteed low in zinc? Of course not, but it seems that is a very likely possibility given your food intake. Nobody online would be able to know if you're telling the truth or not regarding deficiency symptoms.

[www.rightdiagnosis.com]

Symptoms that stand out, loss of appetite (you said you could go days without food) and emotional instability.

Another moron. Ability to go without food does not mean lack of appetite, it means you are clean and raw.

maybe u idiots should meet people in person before accusing of anger and emotional instability.

crazy stuff. Oh no, someone called me names, boo hoo...that means they are angry and unstable. Get over yourself and your childish assumptions.

fresh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another moron. Ability to go without food does not
> mean lack of appetite, it means you are clean and
> raw.
>
> maybe u idiots should meet people in person before
> accusing of anger and emotional instability.
>
> crazy stuff. Oh no, someone called me names, boo
> hoo...that means they are angry and unstable. Get
> over yourself and your childish assumptions.


Case in point. Who told you raw foodists can "go without food" because they are "raw and clean"? Do raw foodists not require nutrients? Maybe if you were juicing, but anyone can do that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2014 06:30PM by jtprindl.

hey powerlifter,
i dont always see eye to eye with your opinions on this forum but i can respect them from afar. i do however value your input in the Other Health Related forum. youve provided great insight on supplements. i hope that you will stay.

Why would someone need to tell me that? What I am telling you, newbie who knows everything, is that when people are cooked their appetite and need to eat often is enhanced and when raw one can go much longer periods of time without feeling that false hunger.

fruitylou Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hey powerlifter,
> i dont always see eye to eye with your opinions on
> this forum but i can respect them from afar. i do
> however value your input in the Other Health
> Related forum. youve provided great insight on
> supplements. i hope that you will stay.


PL is leaving again? This must be the 99th time.

Tell you what PL. Dont leave. I'll leave. I'm getting bored anyway and I'm tired of hearing about zinc shortage . I'll check in once in a while. Thanks to JR & Fresh for their enlightening posts. Listen to these guys, people.

Anon 102 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fruitylou Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > hey powerlifter,
> > i dont always see eye to eye with your opinions
> on
> > this forum but i can respect them from afar. i
> do
> > however value your input in the Other Health
> > Related forum. youve provided great insight on
> > supplements. i hope that you will stay.
>
>
> PL is leaving again? This must be the 99th time.
>
> Tell you what PL. Dont leave. I'll leave. I'm
> getting bored anyway and I'm tired of hearing
> about zinc shortage . I'll check in once in a
> while. Thanks to JR & Fresh for their
> enlightening posts. Listen to these guys, people.


So when can we expect 'anon 103' to make his debut?

Anon 102 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


> Tell you what PL. Dont leave. I'll leave.

See you next week.

Anon 102 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PL is leaving again? This must be the 99th time.
>
> Tell you what PL. Dont leave. I'll leave. I'm
> getting bored anyway and I'm tired of hearing
> about zinc shortage . I'll check in once in a
> while. Thanks to JR & Fresh for their
> enlightening posts. Listen to these guys, people.

You will never convince me that your not one of those 2 you mentioned there i.e JR or fresh anyway. Too similar behaviour and mentality to be someone else.

Too similar things your bitter about also i.e this raw food fad and meditearrean diet quote for me to think your not JR, because only he would let this quote annoy him for months after me saying it.

You also play many members off each other to stimulate arguements.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2014 10:46PM by powerlifter.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
>
> I had about 8 oz. sunflower green juice, 4 oz.
> wheatgrass juice, and 5 grams of chlorella for
> lunch




Great, but best not to push it too hard at the start because they body needs time to cleanse so it can take these potent foods easier.

>
> Where did you hear about all these stories about
> raw foodists, like David Wolfe eating chicken and
> Douglas Graham eating chocolate chip cookies?


I would never reveal my sources because l don't want people getting angry at them. They have been seen on numerous occasions. Funny how raw fooders are said to prefer chicken.


> Who's the raw foodist who hid his face behind
> newspaper?


The person who reportedly caught them never revealed his name because they didn't want to embarrass them. I have my suspicions.


Are you able to provide the link of John Kohler growing sprouts (if it is convenient). I never knew he was into sprouting or knew much about them from a previous video l saw.


I have great respect for John Kohler. He does more than most raw fooders by far. He grows all his own greens and is highly passionate about it. But what's more...he adds expensive rockdust minerals to the soil his garden beds, so in effect he would be getting some of the most nutritious veggies on the planet (pity he isn't getting the higher amounts of phyto chemicals in sprouts)...far more nutritious than any farm veggies, and FRESH!!! I am convinced this has helped him be successful for so long. I hope he continues to do so well, but l have my concerns - he seems to eat unbalanced nutrition. Is he getting enough zinc from those greens?...not so sure, he would be pushing it...those tannins in the greens would block zinc absorption and he is eating lots of high copper foods. Is he having algaes and sea weeds and a probiotic? He could make it work, but l am not sure what he is eating.

Time will always tell whether a raw food diet is going to work. Like many of us, John is only a beginner. 18 years is only getting started and not near long enough to test the success of a raw vegan diet imo. If you have been 100% raw vegan for 40 years, it is THEN that you can start speaking with true authority. Until then we can only make suggestions as to what is working for us currently. Until we have spend a lifetime doing this and are clearly successful in sustaining it and doing well in old age, we can't speak with true authority on the raw food diet. Even Gabriel Coisens says a similar thing....he says that we never know what new essential nutrients are going to be discovered in the future. We are all babes in the woods in the raw vegan movement, no-one has been all raw for a lifetime and thrived so far. Making a raw vegan diet work is not easy, it is one of the hardest diets to thrive on imo. I wouldn't recommend an average person go 100% raw vegan until they are clued up on nutrition, plants and diet....and l would recommend most of them avoid most youtubes, books and most websites.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2014 11:12PM by The Sproutarian Man.

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fresh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > local "wild" fruit....loquats, mangos, papaya,
> > star fruit, avocado, lychees, mulberries
> >
> > not so simple to "prove" on the zinc, except no
> > symptoms.
> > depends on your assumptions.
> >
> > as one example, cronometer says 6mg.
> > W.H.O. says 2mg,3mg,6mg depending on
> > bioavailability.
> > that's what I mean by inflated zinc
> requirements.
> >
> > easy to get based on 2-3 mg
> >
> > zinc chart here.
> >
> [www.fao.org]#
>
> > bm22.5
>
>
> -Mulberries have 1% RDA zinc per 100g
> (http://www.nutrition-and-you.com/mulberries.html)
>
> -Mangos have none
> -Papayas have .5% RDA zinc per 100g
> (http://www.nutrition-and-you.com/papaya-fruit.htm
> l)
> -Star fruit have 1% RDA zinc per 100g
> (http://www.nutrition-and-you.com/star-fruit.html)
>
> -Avocados have 6% RDA zinc per 100g
> (http://www.nutrition-and-you.com/avocados.html)
> -Lychees have .5% RDA zinc per 100g
> (http://www.nutrition-and-you.com/Lychee.html)
> -Loquats have .5% RDA zinc per 100g
> (http://www.nutrition-and-you.com/loquat-fruit.htm
> l)
>
>
> [ods.od.nih.gov]
> (National Institute of Health) states adult men
> need 11mg of zinc daily.

And lets not forget that the zinc needs to be bioavailable. Just because you might be consuming 11 mg of zinc doesn't mean you are absorbing it. How much nutrition you have in your blood doesn't mean a whole lot. The cronometer is only a very basic `raw 101' tool, much further study needs to be done on nutrition.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2014 11:16PM by The Sproutarian Man.

powerlifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The proof is in the pudding when it comes to the
> behaviour of most longterm 80/10/10ers fresh .
> Toxic anger and aggression in most cases. Stubborn
> and can't handle tolerating any different view
> point when it comes to diet, just like Dr Wilson
> says.
>
> Hey its not just me, even another member in this
> thread thought your demeanor was rude, calling
> people morons and fools because they have
> different opinions on diet is grounded behaviour
> to you though lol.
>
> You keep saying that TSM's and my thoughts are
> unfounded, yet TSM has provided you with plenty of
> evidence to scientifically back many of his
> statements regarding sprouts and so have i when it
> comes to the typical vegan diet deficiencies.
>
> Some of the studies he and i linked were some of
> the biggest vegan and vegetarian studies ever
> done. Reliable, unbiased and well-designed studies
> also.
>

Yes, and all you need to do is look at the research on zinc balances in vegans and the zinc/copper balance in foods. And you look at a whole host of factors (anti nutrients etc and blood tests not measuring true zinc levels) to get a more clear picture of what's going on. And then you observe behaviour in various raw groups and start to see thet Dr Wilson isn't so nutty afterall.

When l first went online to check out raw 5 years ago l instantly became aware of the behaviour of certain people eating certain diets. The agression, mental unbalance, defensiveness, argumentativeness struck me straight away. That was years before l ever became aware of Dr Wilson's work. I was very warey when l first went to a certain raw food board because some people did appear to be half nuts, and l was very low key for a long time. I initially thought everyone was going to be raw gurus and either sproutarians or 100% fruitarians, but l soon realised something was not right with the way people were behaving. Now l am starting to understand what is going on with various people on certain diets.

I will not talk with people who are poorly behaved. If people can be reasonable and have a real balanced conversation l am happy to talk. If name calling and abuse becomes a common theme, forget it. It's not the name calling that matters, it is the negative energy behind it. There is some really good positive energy here, but also lots of negative energy.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2014 11:35PM by The Sproutarian Man.

"I would never reveal my sources because l don't want people getting angry at them. They have been seen on numerous occasions. Funny how raw fooders are said to prefer chicken."

I wouldn't be surprised at all if David Wolfe eats chicken on occasion, but I do respect his vast knowledge when it comes to nutrition. Just a shame that he or any other 'guru' tries to play it off like they're 100% raw or vegan.

"Are you able to provide the link of John Kohler growing sprouts (if it is convenient). I never knew he was into sprouting or knew much about them from a previous video l saw."

I cant find that exact video but I did find him a video with him and "gotsprouts" (http://www.damkool.com/en/video/wHn7APPkO1o/How-to-grow-sprouts-any-time-of-the-year-with-GotSproutscom-Sean-Herbert-and-John-Kohler)

jtprindl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> I cant find that exact video but I did find him a
> video with him and "gotsprouts"
> (http://www.damkool.com/en/video/wHn7APPkO1o/How-t
> o-grow-sprouts-any-time-of-the-year-with-GotSprout
> scom-Sean-Herbert-and-John-Kohler)

Yes, l have seen that one.

I used to think for years and years that everyone was a raw guru and living the dream. Then one day l thought to check raw fooders online and l was shocked at what l saw..it had become trendy. When l first started it was strange behaviour to be raw vegan and very few people did it, but now it is `cool'. The first person l ever saw was David Wolfe on youtube. And when l saw Markus Rothranz (second person l saw) l thought...no way, this is too over the top, what the heck is going on here (see video below from 1:20 - 1:46). It had come semi-mainstream and sooo far from the old gloomy Hippocrates days where funny folks grew funny looking foods in a dull rooms with a strong 60's and 70's hippy vibe. The days of raw vegan salesmen had begun.
[www.youtube.com]

David started out like many. He was very naive, but over time he has gained good knowledge, but could his message for raw vegan diets be much better?...l think so. But still, David is no dill, he has done lots of good research. He would be good to spend time with and talk.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2014 12:02AM by The Sproutarian Man.

I used to much be like Fresh once. I would fight and fight and argue and argue until the cows come home, so l can relate to them and many here, and l certainly don't look down on such behaviour. I was more intense and l would stick the boot in really good in the old days. I hated everyone, but there comes a time when you leave all that nonsense behind because all it is, is emotional and meanlingless junk (mind clutter). Because it doesn't matter how good you eat, if you don't have the good calm steady loving mind, you have nothing because all you are doing is upsetting yourself. What is, is. It doesn't matter what people say or think, it's their business. You give up trying to win arguments and persuade people, you just present some things and let people make up their own mind.

And you can get it to where you can recover from any heated moment within 20 seconds and bounce back and laugh about it. When people get angry (emotional silliness in many cases), l see them as characters in a play, and l usually smile about it and find it really funny, because human silliness is funny. I don't get defensive, l help them and agree with their argument and smile. If they say "you haven't done this and you haven't done that", l say in a cheerful manner with a funny facial expression "that's very very true". If they continue with abuse and say "you are lazy", l smile and say "that could be true as well, obviously l aren't perfect, but l try to be" (said in a typical comedy tone that someone like Jim Carey would do). The key is...have fun with them....be part of a character in a play. Then when you or they leave the room you laugh your head off at how silly it all is. It can be like that if you want it to be. If they call you `stupid’…who cares!!! If they call you an `idiot’…who cares!!! Break into a Robin Williams character and have fun with it. You are only stupid and an idiot if you believe it. If you really know who you are and you do good things to help others and you live for the light and eat well, nothing can touch you. See the nonsense for what it is. We as humans have been brought down to our knees and most are not thriving, so our potential for `baby babble’ is very high, but we can all move past that nonsense and truly live to our potential.

If you really want to make it feel like you are living in paradise and become really cheerful, try drinking an 8 - 10 oz glass of chia grass juice everyday for 2 months. WOW!!! The gloomiest dark winter months will protect you from cold and make the gloomy days feel like a beautiful summer paradise day. You bet your boots it does. You can climb on a high and stay there...you can make it so your life is so good that you have to pinch yourself to check whether it is a dream or not..

Check out this rascal…the beautiful chia grass. Lots of good calcium, omega 3’s good zinc-copper balance and all the wonderfully delightful feel good factors. Consistent use brings fine men onto powerful highs where one feels glorious , and makes a day at work feel like a holiday…even makes being stuck in traffic a delight (crazy Jim Carey smile and voice being used here). That is our natural condition, and we can all do it. If an ex hating head kicking stress head like me can do it, anyone can do it, but it takes work. (I wish you could hear my voice and see my face when reading this out…comedy gold).

Chia grass – mightier than mighty…makes life like paradise…brings extra sunlight into your world…makes life a pleasure





That's what conductivity is about....conducting to our highest possible level. That's my conductivity diet.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2014 02:48AM by The Sproutarian Man.

TSM,
How do you pluck out chia seed without soil on the base stem?
how do you over come strong taste of chia?